User talk:Wüstenfuchs/Archive 4

Branimir inscription dating
Hi, I noticed you added 888 as the year of the Branimir inscription in the infobox of the article. That dating pertains to the inscription found in Muć, while this particular one, found in Šopot, is not accurately dated.--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Charles B. Gatewood
Sorry, I had no idea it was being reviewed...I finished fixing these today, please have a look.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 14:54, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Milan Bandić
The article Milan Bandić you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Milan Bandić for things which need to be addressed. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:24, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

copy&paste moves
Please do not do copy&paste moves like you did here. Use the fine Move function instead. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 13:06, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

But, in addition, don't revert moves without verifying the references. Don't move the article again without providing new references and/or following the WP:RM procedure. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 13:09, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIX, November 2011
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Nomination of Croatian Coalition for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Croatian Coalition is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Croatian Coalition until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

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 * Military Order of the Iron Trefoil (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Military Historian of the Year
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The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012
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1RR at Croatian language
Be advised, the Croatian language article is under a 1RR revert limit. You revision of 17:18, 8 February 2012 constitutes a revert of this edit by User:Taivo. Further reverts will be reported at the 3RR noticeboard. -- Director  ( talk ) 17:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Croatian_language RfC
When doing an RfC request it's customary to let the other user's know, particularly when that user's comments (mine) are going to be included in the RfC. Is there some reason you included my WP:AC/DS warning to all parties as the RfC you submitted? --WGFinley (talk) 21:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I invited all to discuss, not to your section but discussion that will occure in next 48 hours. --Wusten fuchs 21:17, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I would move the RfC template to the section above it then. --WGFinley (talk) 21:23, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, fine. --Wusten fuchs 00:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

February 2012
There is a new thread on WP:AN/EW that concerns you --  Director  ( talk ) 17:57, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Glad to see you working. --Wusten fuchs 18:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha thank you, Fox. Nothing personal, I hope you realize. ;) You talkpage is.. very interesting. Nice redecorating. -- Director  ( talk ) 18:23, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, business is business. Thx for talk page. --Wusten fuchs 18:27, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You know, you could make it stretch the whole width (with HTML). -- Director  ( talk ) 18:40, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean... --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 19:06, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I mean it doesn't stretch all the way to the sides in accordance with the resolution. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- Director  ( talk ) 19:48, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Here seams fine. But I'll fix it when I find time for it. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 18:44, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

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 * Vlachs of Croatia (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Josif Runjanin
Please do not rename title of this article without agreement with other users. State your reasons for renaming on article talk page. Thank you. PANONIAN 18:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "Josip" is not this person's birth name, or official name, or the name he personally used. That fact, however, is completely and utterly irrelevant on Wikipedia. "Josip Runjuanin" is the WP:COMMONNAME and is mandated by Wikipedia policy. It is probably the most common because because this Serbian person wrote the lyrics for the Croatian anthem, but that also does not matter at all. The article should definitely be moved. I just don't care enough to post an RM :), and many Serbian users are bound to oppose this regardless of policy. If you post one, Fuchs, you have my vote. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- Director  ( talk ) 19:45, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no general consensus among user for this page to be moved. Perhaps you two agree about moving, but several other users on article's talk page posted different comments. I really do not understand this campaign against native name of this man here. He was Serbs who, lived, died and was buried in Novi Sad (in present-day Serbia) and the fact that he lived in Croatia in one part of his life is not the most important thing here. Personally, I see this campaign of Croatization of name of one Serb who lived and died in the territory of present-day Serbia as an unacceptable attempt of POV-ization of an Serbia-related article. PANONIAN  21:03, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You are being paranoid. I have better things to do then "croatize" Serbs. Can you imagine Bosnian croatizing Serbs, funny thing. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 18:47, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

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 * Military Order of the Iron Trefoil (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012
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Please adhere to Wikipedia policies and stop disruptive editing on the Yugoslavs article
Wustenfuchs, the 1980s map shows that the people declared themselves Yugoslavs - rather than Croats, Serbs, etc. You are continuing to push a WP:FRINGE view that if a nationality does not have a nation state that it cannot be a nationality even after being told of the existence of stateless nations. You are refusing to adhere to Wikipedia policies on Consensus, Tendentious editing, and I didn't hear that. Please look at these policies and immediately adhere to the Wikipedia policies by accepting that the consensus is not in your favour of your claim that a nationality of Yugoslavs does not exist, cease the tendentious editing and cooperate, and stop your refusal to accept the evidence that Yugoslavs still exist as a nationality, as demonstrated by census statistics in various countries. If you continue to ignore these policies, refuse to take seriously the premises of other users' arguments, and do not take immediate action to end your violations of Wikipedia policies on Consensus, Tendentious editing, and I didn't hear that, you will be reported to the AfN for WP:DISRUPT. Now how about we resolve this by starting off fresh by you acknowledging the evidence of the existence of people who identify as being of Yugoslav nationality and then we will discuss the issues you have addressed of the credibility of the nationality by examining what a nationality is?--R-41 (talk) 19:12, 28 February 2012 (UTC)


 * What's up with the 1980 ethnic map? We have 2001 census. It's irrelevant. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 19:51, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Well that's it then, Wustenfuchs, I advised you to cooperate with other users and work together to come to a consensus, but you have decided to refuse to cooperate with other users and you are not seeking consensus. We all here gave you sources to look at, you have ignored them. You have ignored disagreements made with sourced that rebuked your claims by multiple users. You have repeatedly violated Wikipedia policies on Consensus, Tendentious editing, and I didn't hear that. Now I am reporting you to the Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents for these examples of WP:DISRUPT.--R-41 (talk) 02:50, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, whatever. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 09:16, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

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Re: Parliament diagrams
Hi! Try this one. I used a similar thing locally on my computer, but I think this is supposed to produce the exact same thing.--Tomobe03 (talk) 16:26, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, thx alot. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 16:44, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Mladen Lorković
Hi! Just noticed you GA nominated Mladen Lorković article. I spotted one definite problem with the article which may get in the way of a successful review and another possible one: The lead is way too short, you should expand it to summarize all major aspects of the article, while keeping it about two paragraphs long - probably something as long as "Lorković-Vokić coup and death" section (not those contents of course). Also, it would be prudent to request a copyedit at WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests to have a native speaker polish the prose.--Tomobe03 (talk) 22:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thx for the advice Tomobe. I'll expand the leade right now. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 22:50, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

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Referencing
Just a heads up. You need to include "|ref=harv" in the "cite book" template if you going to use the "sfn" template for references so they are linked. Example: --  ◅PRODUCER  ( TALK ) 19:48, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh. Thx, I'll do that in future. And thx for fixing my mistakes. :) --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 19:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Proposal - a new scope for fascism task force
I have proposed a new scope for fascism task force. Please express your opinion in the task force's talk page. Thank you!

Sapere aude22 (talk) 16:56, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Znak HPC-a
Nadam se da si zadovoljan urađenim. Lijep pozdrav!--Nanin7 (talk) 13:53, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Nanin, hvala ti puno. Odlično je. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 14:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXII, March 2012
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Croats of BiH
Please revert your recent edit at Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Works such as "Security Sage's Guide to Hardening the Network Infrastructure", "The Catholic Encyclopedia: An International Work of Reference on the Constitution, Doctrine, Discipline, and History of the Catholic Church", and the other locally published sources that you have included are unreliable. Numerous reliable university published and peer reviewed sources exist on this subject, please use them. -- ◅PRODUCER  ( TALK ) 16:07, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * There, even though I think Catholic Encyclopedia is reliable. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 16:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Again refrain from inserting unreliable locally published sources. Greenberg 2004, Oxford University Press attributes Alhamijado to the Bosnian Muslims not "Islamized Croats". -- ◅PRODUCER  ( TALK ) 14:44, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Bosnian Muslims were islamized Croats also. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 14:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * According to Starcevic? Bring reliable sources to the table stating that Alhamijado was created by Croats and not Bosnian Muslims. I'm reverting your additional section on SFRY which is unreferenced. -- ◅PRODUCER  ( TALK ) 14:52, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * No, it's not according to Starčević, you have a source, and as you can see, it's not Starčević. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 14:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I can say it's unreliable because it does not meet the criteria for reliable source. Scholarly sources such as do and attribute Alhamijado to the Bosnian Muslims. --  ◅PRODUCER  ( TALK ) 21:08, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * And you say Greenberg is somehow smater then Rizvić? Or Rizvić is less reliable only because he is a guy from Balkans?
 * Consult WP:RS. Greenberg is a person who is specialized in the field and his work is published by a university and peer reviewed. --  ◅PRODUCER  ( TALK ) 22:07, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

 * Thank you for the award! :) --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 21:32, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

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Ante Pavelić
Hi. I'm a bit confused because you have requested the GOCE to copy edit two different versions of the article, one in article space and one in your user space. Why so? Regards, --Stfg (talk) 13:27, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, because User:AniMate claims that this new version has very bad grammar. I included this new version into the article, but since article will appear on Main Page on 10 April, I, afer AniMate advised me to do so, reverted the article to the earlier version. After I or you or anyome fix the grammar on new version, I will replace it with the older one. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 13:32, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see. Well, I've read the talk page now, and understand more or less what is going on. But it isn't right to expect GOCE to copy edit two versions of the article when one is going to be deleted. I have placed both GOCE requests on hold and will ask AniMate for their view. You need to agree how you will arrive at the version that should be copyedited. Please note that copy editing comes after the creation of and agreement on content, because you need to know what you want to say before we work on how to say it. --Stfg (talk) 14:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, only section where AniMate finds potential neutrality is Ustaše regime. Other sections are fine. We discussed the leade of the article and alredy agreed that we will use the leade from the newer version. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 14:50, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Then what you need to do is to reach agreement on the final bits where agreement is needed, and then get it all into the main article, where a GOCE member will copy edit. This will mean that your earlier (10th March) request will be served, rather than the later one, so it will get done sooner, and it's better to copy edit in mainspace so that everyone who might be interested has had the opportuity to contribute to the content. I won't remove the on-hold markers while there are two versions of the article. --Stfg (talk) 16:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Since when is the article going to be appearing on the main page? AniMate 18:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Anniversary, 10 April. In On this day section. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 19:01, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I would recommend keeping the current version till that has passed. It's not reasonable to expect a GOCE copy edit at a week's notice, especially over the Easter weekend and for a serious article of over 6000 words (for the Wustenfuchs version; the current version is about 4500 words). The present mainspace article is quite good and readable. Afterwards, for GA, you have time to do what you want. It's a mistake to rush things like this. --Stfg (talk) 19:43, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are probably right. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 19:44, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Very good. In that case, may I suggest we remove the GOCE request relating to your user page. We'll keep the other one in its place but on hold until you tell me it's ready, when I'll remove the flag. This way, you won't lose your place in the queue, but a copy editor won't edit prematurely. Is that OK? --Stfg (talk) 21:30, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, ofc. No problem. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 12:15, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Vlachs of Croatia
Hi Wustenfuchs. Unfortunately, that's your 4th entry on the GOCE requests page, and you're only allowed three at a time. I have to remove it. You can add a new one when any one of the others is completed. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 19:38, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. I didn't know that. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 14:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

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A reply to your very informative message
Dearest Wustenfuchs,

To preface, it was not "nationalist". It was factual. I'll be as civil about this as possible, without resorting to calling other people's intentions "nationalist". The irony in calling my additions and changes unsourced is absolutely laughable. Judging by your command of English even in the message that was directed at me, I am assuming that you singlehandedly edited that page. I work closely with the Wikimedia Foundation in Singapore and the Asia Pacific and purposefully did not use my account to edit with the solitary intention of seeing the reaction I'd get. Dear Wustenfuchs, if you yourself do not remove the outright lies on the following sections of the "Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina", I (and consequently, we) shall have to go a little further than just "reporting" you. So, to boot, the sections are:


 * Kingdom of Croatia: I'll start here with the obvious. Nowhere in any of the extensive amounts of literature I've read on the Balkans does it state that the Croats "formed their own kingdom" in the region of today's Bosnia and Herzegovina. Kindly remove that.
 * High and Late Middle Ages: "After this, Bosnia, earlier part of Kingdom of Croatia, started to disassociate with Croatia." The poor grammar in this sentence notwithstanding, Bosnia in its entirety was never a part of the Kingdom of Croatia. Certain parts of it were. Be a little more specific on this.
 * Ottoman Empire: "and their numbers in areas shrank as many fled from fear of conversion and persecution, as the Christian folk were mistreated as low-grade citizens. Ottoman conquest changed demographics of Bosnia and Herzegovina, largely reducing number of Catholics." Now, dearest Wustenfuchs, if this isn't "nationalist" then I certainly do not know what is. This is perhaps the most outright lie and fabrication of the truth I've seen on Wikipedia and it's other Wikis in a long time. The Jewish, Orthodox and least of all Christian and Catholic folk were never treated as such. The Ottoman Empire was known for its equal treatment of people of all races, creeds, religions and colors. Perhaps the only colonizing empire in history to be known for that. Not a single person was persecuted into converting into the Islamic faith; people did it purely by choice. Read a little more, you might find the truth quite invigorating. Kindly completely remove this or replace it with the truth, REFERENCED.
 * Bosnian War: "Bosnian Croat political leadership and leadership of Croatia urged Izetbegović to form a confederation between Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia, but Izetbegović denied this since he tried to represent Serbian interests as much he represented those of Bosniaks and Croats. Bosnian Croat leadership was irritated by Izetbegović's neutrality, so Mate Boban threatened that he will pull back the HVO from actions in Bosnia.[29] Since UN implemented embargo to Bosnia and Herzegovina on import of armes, Bosniak and Croat forces had hard time fighting Serbian units, which were supplied with arms from Middle East, just before the out brake of war. However, after Croat and Bosniak forces reorganized in late May 1992, Serbian advence was halted and their forces mostly remained on their positions during the war.[31] The tensions between Croats and Bosniaks started on 19 June 1992, but the real war started later, in October. Croat-Bosniak War was on its peak during the 1993, and splashed in 1994." Now, I am not Bosnian/Bosniak at all, but I find this very offensive, and would imagine Bosniaks to find even more so. At the Wikimedia Foundation, as I hope you've learnt, there is no discrimination. For reasons that are blatantly clear, I won't get into this too much; quite simply state that: Izetbegović did not represent Serbian interests AT ALL. Serbs and Serbians did not get a single, solitary piece of artillery or weaponry from the Middle East. And you must mention the casualties on all sides, particularly the Bosniak side, since there is absolutely no mention of them in this section except where they are practically vilified. REFERENCE your claims, please.
 * Bosnian War under Demographics: "Soon, an exodus of Bosnian Croats occurred, a large number of Croats from central Bosnia and Posavina was expelled." Oh? Reference this, if true at all.
 * Literature: How are Safvet-beg Bašagić, Enver Čolaković, Musa Ćazim Ćatić, Mak Dizdar, Asaf Duraković, Fadil Hadžić, Nusret Idrizović, Ahmed Muradbegović or Alija Nametak Croat? Kindly remove this.

That, not including the obvious needs of grammar clean up and referencing that we'll have to do, shall have to do for now. Because, as you are so proud of your work on this page, I'm sure therefore that you'll be more than happy to re-edit it to perfection, as you'd have it.

Having said that, if the aforementioned pointers are not taken care of, I shall have to file an official report to the Wikimedia Foundation. We'll start from here.

P.S. You are blatantly misquoting Mr. Malcolm's "Bosnia: A Short History", a book I've had the pleasure of reading three times. This shall be brought up as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.137.170.100 (talk) 15:10, 13 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, right, right. First, about Kingdom of Croatia, there are tons of sources claiming that most of Bosnia and Herzegovina was incorporated into the Kingdom of Croatia (also sourced). Well look, about treatment of Christians in the Ottoman Empire, it's very simple - Catholics (respectively Christians) were considered a second-class citizens. I sourced that. About Bosnian War, I again quoted the source, you can find one. And about Bosnian Muslim writers, where did I wrote they were Croats, but they are considered to be part of Bosnian Croat literature, you doubt in that? And how did I misquoted Malcolm? Where? --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 18:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello again Wustenfuchs. You did not source that; and give me at least one of those "tons of sources". Out of curiosity, I'd like to know what parts of the Kingdom of Bosnia were incorporated into the Kingdom of Croatia and exactly WHEN. Although it is true that a large number of ethnic Croats from Bosnia (Bosnian Croats) were instrumental in contributing to the formation and independence of the Croatian Kingdom as an emerging European monarchy, they certainly did NOT form it in the region of today's Bosnia. I don't see any specific references following that particular claim. Quote no. 9 (as a direct answer to your defensive stance of not misquoting Malcolm): "Another connection of Bosnia with Croatia is that Bosnian rulers always used Croatian political title "ban"". Specifically, in the chapter "The medieval Bosnian state, 1180-1463", Malcolm asserts that it is a title of SOUTH SLAVIC origin and not Croatian as you so bluntly put it. Furthermore, Benjamin V. Fortson in his (very readable, I might add) book, "Indo-European Language and Culture: An Introduction" briefly mentions that Ban is of Hungarian origin, and came into that language as a Mongolian loanword. Tone Bringa mentions in "Being Muslim the Bosnian Way", and my personal friend Esad Duraković in several scholarly articles and one of his books, that Ban as a title of nobility and authority in Bosnia was used slightly before it was used OFFICIALLY as a title in Croatia. So, apologies my dear fox, but it certainly is not a "Croatian political title". I ALSO do not see any specific references directly following the sentence "and their numbers in areas shrank as many fled from fear of conversion and persecution, as the Christian folk were mistreated as low-grade citizens." They weren't. I told you to do a little homework and read up on this. Malcolm DIRECTLY mentions in his scholarly article published in French, "Quelles haines ancestrales?", that the Ottoman Empire was extremely tolerant and NEVER forced people into conversion, as other Catholic and Christian colonial empires had a tendency of doing (I'm not siding with either religion here, I'm Jewish; but if I must be fair, historically Muslim empires [maybe not from today's standpoint] were exponentially more tolerant to both my people and Catholics and other Christians; ESPECIALLY the Ottoman Empire). He also says something to that effect more than once in the chapters "The Islamicization of Bosnia", "War and politics in Ottoman Bosnia, 1606-1815" and "The Jews and the Gypsies of Bosnia". Since we ARE talking about Malcolm. I could go on and on about the volumes of articles and books published that mention that the Ottoman Empire was dedicated to the equal treatment of all (granted, non-Muslims had to pay additional taxes; but hey, they were exempted from war duty -- how 'bout that?! [The American military sent some 2,000 African Americans as human walls in the first few months of their operations in WWII]) races, religions, creeds and colors. Also, you might have heard of the declaration of human rights (possibly the first in Europe of its kind) at the Tekija na Buni. So, kindly remove any and all assertions that Ottomans persecuted, prosecuted and outright killed and forcefully converted Catholics and people of other religions. "During the war large number of Croats was expelled, some 380,000 of them." I don't see that being quoted. Kindly remove that. "Soon, an exodus of Bosnian Croats occurred, a large number of Croats from central Bosnia and Posavina was expelled. According to the 1996 census, made by UNHCR (officially unrecognized) there was 3,919,953 inhabitants, of which Croats made 571,317 (14,57%). On the territory of Croatian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, percentage of Croats slightly changed, though, their total number reduced." NONE of that is referenced, especially the exodus bit. Kindly remove that as well. You had written, added and edited on more than one occasion the exact words "The most known Bosnian Croat writers are:" So don't bullsh*t a bullsh*tter, my dear fox, as the Americans would have it. Contributors is just fine, for now. I'll give you an F for effort. (They are not a part of Bosnian Croat literature, just the same way the late Edward Said is not a part of Israeli literature, even though he was from that same region/land.) I also see that you haven't removed the blatantly misquoted "Bosnian Croat leadership was irritated by Izetbegović's neutrality, so Mate Boban threatened that he will pull back the HVO from actions in Bosnia" (Malcolm does not assert that in any way on page 188 -- especially since page 188 is part of the chapter "Bosnia and the second world war, 1941-1945" [unless this is some other book he published in 2002 and developed more subjective views; I know he published "Aspects of Hobbes" in that year, another one of his books I have the pleasure of owning]). "Bosnian Croat political leadership and leadership of Croatia urged Izetbegović to form a confederation between Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia, but Izetbegović denied this since he tried to represent Serbian interests as much he represented those of Bosniaks and Croats." I always remember this little passage from one of Izetbegović's many amazing speeches (passed on to me by a good Bosnian Croat friend, I might add) [translated]: We did not and are not defending Islam or Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina but Bosnia and Herzegovina as a country and all its peoples, without precedent, who feel their country is their home. Let it be known that Bosnia never attacked Bosnia or Croatia; this conflict and war arose as a consequence of heads of state and politicians who saw it as their own responsibility to set brothers and sisters against each other -- people who had gotten along for centuries." This little passage (or quote), along with Malcolm's many assertions (again, since we ARE talking about Malcolm) in his Epilogue at the end of the book, point to Alija Izetbegović undying and unflinching dedication to just trying to calm everyone down, to put it in layman's terms. He NEVER represented Serb OR Croat interests. So remove that at once, please. And as for the warnings for the removal of the aforementioned claims, this is your last one. Signing off and thank you. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Croats_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 18:18, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue LXXIII, April 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:57, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Copyediting of Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Hi Wustenfuchs, I'm with the Guild of Copy Editors, and I've taken up your request for copy editing of Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I'm inclined to cut down the History section a great deal. If this were an ordinary article tagged with, I wouldn't hesitate. But since you want the article to make GA, I hesitate to wreak such destruction without seeking your input, especially since I'm sure you know the topic better than I do. It seems to me, though, that the history section of the article is an abbreviated version of History of Croatia, which I've added as a to the section. There doesn't seem to be a great distinction between the history of the state of Croatia and the history of the Croatian people; there isn't an article specifically on the latter, and the former deals extensively with the history of the people prior to any inkling of the modern state.

But I'm rambling. To my mind, an appropriate history section in the Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina article would be a brief overview of the history of the Croatian people in general—such as one paragraph, or two at most—along with a discussion of the history of Croatian people in the boundaries of modern day B&H. Or is that going to be too difficult? I think we can go for quality over quantity here and still have a good go at GA status, but again, I don't want to get too destructive unless we're on the same page. --BDD (talk) 02:34, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I see your point. Well, Croats in Croatia and those in Bosnia and Herzegovina, have a single history until Kingdom of Bosnia appeared on history scene. Bosnian Kingdom is fundamental reason why Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina are "special" group of Croats because those Croats later lived under Ottoman Empire and become distinct group of Croats, with their own mentality. And again in 20th century, they once again had single history with rest of Croats in Croatia, since they lived in one state, ie Austria-Hungary and Yugoslavia. And again in late 20th century (1990s) they again "divided". Now, during Austria-Hungary and communist Yugoslavia Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina lived either in Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina or Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, while Croats in Croatia lived either in Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia, Kingdom of Dalmatia or Socialist Republic of Croatia.
 * History of Croats and Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina, observed as a single history looks like a number system, it's a single history if observed as an union and again, separate history if observed as a system within the system. See the image.




 * It's really hard to observe history of Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina as history of all Croats ie Croatia, because of reasons mentioned above, and at the same time they did have single history with other Croats in some periods of history, like Kingdom of Yugoslavia or Kingdom of Croatia, in fact, we can include history of Croatia only in those two sections, all other historicall periods are unable to be observed as a single Croatian history. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 15:30, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I got this idea while writing a message on your talk page... I could create a whole new article - History of Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and later I can write a summary of this new article into the Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina article and add History of Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina as the main article... hard work, but, not a big problem. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 15:34, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

"Danijel" Srb?
Do you have any evidence that "Danijel" is correct? All sources say "Daniel". GregorB (talk) 18:13, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeup... http://www.nacional.hr/clanak/120666/danijel-srb-promijenio-ime


 * Um... But he changed it from "Danijel" to "Daniel", and Daniel is his current name... GregorB (talk) 19:10, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, crap... I'll fix it. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 19:11, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW I didn't know he actually changed his name. Perhaps this should be noted in the article. GregorB (talk) 19:36, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes it should be mentioned... I'll do that tommorow... right now I'm to sleepy... :D --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 21:35, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

GOCE request for Mladen Lorković
Hello, per your request at the guild page, I have copy edited this article. Please review and if you have any feedback, please drop a message on my talk page. Thanks Blackmane (talk) 21:22, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome Blackmane (talk) 17:27, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXIV, May 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 15:42, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

"According to Reuters"
I'm not sure why we need this in the lead section--do you feel other sources have portrayed it differently? Associated Press has reported the same, for example. It's going to be a long article if we preface every sentence with "According to the BBC," "According to the New York Times," etc.! =) Would you consider reverting? -- Khazar2 (talk) 20:18, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well no, because Taleb Ibrahim claims that massacre was commited by Iraqis, other claim something different etc. So, yes, I think it's important to note that this info is according to Reuters, moreover, because some claim that such news are propaganda. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 20:21, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * We've already attributed it once to the UN report--are you arguing that Reuters is not reliable to repeat a UN statement? If you have other reliable sources indicating that today's United Nations report said something different than what Reuters, the AP, and others are stating, let's hash them out on the talk page. FWIW, I don't believe Taleb Ibrahim is considered a reliable source by Wikipedia policy.Khazar2 (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Hi, Wustenfuchs, I'm continuing the copy-edit you requested for the above article on the GOCE requests page; User:BDD began editing it but s/he wasn't able to complete it. Please feel free to correct or revert my edits, and contact me, if I'm doing something I shouldn't be. Cheers, 03:04, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * So far so good. Thx. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 16:54, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Done - I've rearranged parts of the article into what I think is more logical structure of sections and subsections - feel free to alter this if you think another way is better or more appropriate. Also, I note that there's a large quantity of unreferenced or inadequately referenced sections; I've marked most of them with section tags. I think the 'History' section is proportionally too long - but a complex history probably can't be condensed further. I hope the article is better now; feel free to contact me if any other issues arise from my copy-edit. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 21:58, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent. I appriciate your hard work. --<font face="Old English Text MT"><font size="3" color="Black">Wusten <font size="3" color="Dimgray">fuchs 22:12, 12 June 2012 (UTC)