User talk:WilliamJE/Archive 8

Ethan Couch article
Improved enough? --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:15, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It can't be improved. The article fails WP:BLP1E....William 19:27, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Indian School Of Management
Hello WilliamJE. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Indian School Of Management, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: A7 does not apply to schools. Thank you. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:39, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * And somebody came along and CSD it per G11 anyway....William 16:25, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

trailing braces
I have now fixed [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AGeneral_Dynamics&diff=586364087&oldid=586356305 this error] twice. not sure how many more times you made this mistake? Frietjes (talk) 17:19, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Question
Can you link the discussion where the consensus mentioned in your edit summary was reached? Thank you.—John Cline (talk) 03:06, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

aviation lists
As far as I am aware the consensus is to use Template:aviation lists on every aircraft-related article, it was a replacement for not including such links in the see also section. I am not aware that this has changed recently and it appears on thousands if not nearly all aircraft and related subject articles. Intersted to know why you would think differently, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 09:51, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Removal of citations
Can't you tell that all three of those citations are citing things across the entire paragraph? Why are you wholesale removing them instead of just moving them? You're being disruptive and edit warring. ViperSnake151  Talk  04:52, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, those 5 citations are not for one sentence, they're for the entire paragraph, where they are entirely relevant. Look before you edit, because clearly, you're not seeing the whole picture. ViperSnake151   Talk  04:56, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

December 2013
Your recent editing history at CryptoLocker shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. ViperSnake151  Talk  04:52, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. ViperSnake151  Talk  04:54, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Caribbean Airlines Flight 523
I see you turned this article into a redirect, this is just to let you know that I have turned it back into an article. It meets WP:AIRCRASH and on top of that has been through AfD, where it was decided to keep it. I think if you want to eliminate this article you will have to send it back to a new AfD to overrule the existing AfD decision. - Ahunt (talk) 11:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Bonnie Bennett
hi William, how are you? I specialize in editing The Vampire Diaries content even though I only started yesterday ;). I wanted to know if i could create a page on the vampire diaries's Bonnie Bennett since she's a central/main character of the series. TS (talk) 14:39, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Minor fictional characters aren't notable enough for standalone articles. Your article had no sources(Independent or otherwise) to establish notability....William 15:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Terence Crawford
I have restored this article as the PROD was contest at my talk page. AFD would be the next step if you feel it is still non-notable. GiantSnowman 10:27, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

1954 BOAC crash
I found this, literally a trove of Australian paper cuttings. You could use some of this if you fancy it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * As I suggested, I've now nominated the article at DYK, naming you and MilborneOne as co-authors. Fingers crossed! The Rambling Man (talk) 10:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Hubbardston MA
I can see you've done more Wiki than I but when I view the Hubbardston page it lists James McGovern as Representative and Elizabeth Warren and Markey as Senators. Would you please let me know what going on? Thanks. Pjefts (talk) 23:01, 8 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Here's the summary of my last edit to the article. The left column shows the parts I removed, renamed, etc. It says Kerry and Kennedy. Fix it and the section can go back in. I don't know if the other politicians other than McGovern are still valid. Remember the congressional districts are redrawn every 10 years too....William 23:21, 8 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, I understand that on the editing side it reads Kerry and Kennedy but it shows Warren and Markey when it's displayed in the article. I certainly don't mind making the changes to the editing but I don't understand why despite it appearing as Kerry and Kennedy that it reads Warren and Markey. For what it's worth all the rest Anne Gobi, Jim McGovern, Steve Brewer are all the current office holders. Just trying to learn a bit more and this one puzzles me. Thanks. Pjefts (talk) 03:34, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree it is puzzling. Now after checking I'm seeing the version you are. I'm going to restore the government box. Cheers!...William 12:58, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Great! This has encouraged me to do something with this page. Pjefts (talk) 05:12, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Digiguide / Gypsy Media
Regarding your revision of "List of Mayday Episodes" - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Mayday_episodes&action=history which you have done quoting "No such thing as gipsy media. (TW)) (undo | thank)" - GipsyMedia do indeed exist - they are the publishers of Digiguide (the Windows programme which includes a months worth of listings for National Geographic) and the digiguide.tv website used for quoting many of the episode air dates in this article

If you copy the programmes from Digiguide the following is produces DOCUMENTARY: Air Crash Investigation On: National Geographic Date: Monday 17th February 2014 (starting in 37 days) Time: 21:00 to 22:00 (1 hour long)

Qantas 32: Titanic in the Sky.

(Dolby Stereo, Widescreen, 3 Star) 10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)10:10, 11 January 2014 (UTC)~ Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.tv/?p=1&r=36091

Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited. (my emphasis) -note specifically the copyright statement - their own website says that it's copyright GypsyMedia http://digiguide.tv/general/copyright.asp - if you feel the attribution is in some ways lacking or inaccurate please can you suggest ways I could improve my citation to accurately reflect this? KevS (talk) 16:25, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Your citations are not linked to any URL. For instance- " |OriginalAirDate = 10 February 2014 ". No URL, no source. No source, not in the article. There's been a ton of make believe put in this article in the past. Plus you keep changing back and forth from Gypsy to Gipsy. What you wrote above includes both....William 16:48, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

It's kinda hard to provide a URL to a Windows Application so I've provided the same level of detail as you would a book (i.e. it's title - Digiguide for Windows, it's Plublisher "GipsyMedia Limited" and as there are no page numbers how you'd reference it - i.e. switch to National Geographic Channel UK on the 10th February 2014. My spelling is horrendous so apologies for that - correct spelling is "GipsyMedia Limited". KevS (talk) 11:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

DYK for 1954 BOAC Lockheed Constellation crash
Orlady (talk) 09:52, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Satisfying result, eh? Wonder if there are any other nuggets like this out there yet to be written about...?  The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes it was. The other DYK I worked on, Swissair Flight 316, I didn't know would be so interesting till I started work on it. Plutonium, Diamonds, the pilots being prosecuted for manslaughter. It was good working with you on the Constellation crash. Maybe there will another article for us to begin and collaborate on another day....William 11:26, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Here's a tragic but interesting plane crash without an article. I don't know what about it could be used for DYK hook....William 12:04, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * At a quick glance, that does look interesting. Why not kick something off?  I'm sure a DYK hook will evolve from the work!  The Rambling Man (talk) 15:06, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Here you go: 1972 Sacramento F86 Sabre accident. A DYK hook could be "... that 22 people were killed when an F86 Sabre crashed into a Farrell's Ice Cream Parlour in 1972?"... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:46, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks like a good article. Sorry I couldn't help with it. Yesterday was my birthday and I'm spending today getting myself ready for an important personal matter scheduled for tomorrow morning. This is my first edit in over a day and I suspect there won't be many more before I get things cleared up tomorrow....William 18:46, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, no worries. Look forward to you helping out when you get a chance.  The Rambling Man (talk) 18:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Notable people-Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Hi William-Many of the names in the notable section of the Eau Claire, Wisconsin article were deleted because they were not notable. Therefore, I have no problems with this. Many thanks-RFD (talk) 15:13, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The Center Line: Winter 2013

 * —MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:15, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

RfC notice: Superpower article
I have opened an RfC at the articles talk page entitled Talk:Superpower. I would appreciate it if you could express your opinions there. Thank you. Antiochus the Great (talk) 21:37, 17 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I made a reply there too.--103.1.153.206 (talk) 21:41, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for being honest
Thanks for checking out my Chibi-Robo article. It was my first, and I really didn't get around to finishing it by the time you saw it, but I'm glad someone noticed. That being said, don't get used to me doing this. The only reason I made the account was so that I could finally give a Wikipedia page to a favorite game of mine that's been out for, oh, I don't know, 3-4 weeks. All the same, thank you. Kaceypop

Edit summaries can also be personal attacks
Such as this one:

I strongly recommend that you restrain your animosity. --Orlady (talk) 00:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)


 * You restrain an WP:INVOLVED administrator who thinks WP:BRD don't apply to him and who keeps making threats. I am not going to give up my keeping tabs on administrators around here.(Not to mention the incompetent deletion discussion he started. That's a good description for an AFD without an explanation. Or blanking a page without explanation either.) Nyttend, Toddst1, TigerShark, and Mark Arsten have all shown themselves to be disgraces to Wikipedia but other administrators refuse to do anything even when one of them calls an editor 'a petulant piece of shit'. Another slaps blocked templates on editor's talk pages and insists they stay up after the block is over. Another proposed at ANI 0RR for an editor with no exceptions for vandalism.  Administrators are jokes are around here. First rule- Protect Your Own....William 01:06, 30 January 2014 (UTC)


 * And if telling someone to resign as administrator is considered a Personal attack, that is just another admin that is a disgrace around here....William 01:12, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm with William on this one. I haven't read the entire exchange, but suggesting that someone resign as an admin does not qualify as a personal attack. Not even close.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  15:52, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That edit summary did not precipitate this block. That was merely the last item on this page that WilliamJE had not removed from the page. --Orlady (talk) 16:03, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't claim it did precipitate the block. However, it was called a personal attack, and I disagree. The editor was blocked for personal attacks, so it is reasonable to assume this one was part of the rationale.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  17:42, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It was however the first thing out of your mouth to me. You threatened me with a block for that non reason. Your bias is obviously showing....William 16:10, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for personal attacks, continued diff after being warned (and after acknowledging the warning diff). I hope that a short vacation from Wikipedia helps you overcome your apparent obsession with Nyttend.. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice:. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Orlady (talk) 15:00, 31 January 2014 (UTC)


 * An admininstrator accuses me of obsessing over nyttend and without proof. The approve I'm not is in my unblock request. So why am I blocked and not ORLADY for making an personal attack against me for saying I have an obsession with something....William 15:40, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add the following because I edit-conflicted with jpgordon. The edit that triggered the block was after Nyttend's edits that you complain about in your unblock request.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:43, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have always thought that William was a good editor and I don't think I have ever seen him act rashly. I have however had many incidents with Nyttend and have seen many things to make me question the competance of Nyttend as an admin. In fact I agree with the comments above and in the edit history that he should not be an admin. After looking at this and reviewing the history of these 2 it seems to me that Nyttend is more at fault in this and Orlady seems to have acted a bit rashly on this block without reviewing the history. Since Orlady and Nyttend frequently work together on articles this block seems to show undo favoritism towards Nyttend and Against William. Someone might want to investigate this a little closer than just reviewing the 2 or 3 sentences on this talk page. IMO if William seems to have been following Nyttend then Ny probably was doing something that warranted scrutiny.138.162.8.59 (talk) 15:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * To Bbb23- And I'm not supposed to say anything when Nyttend deliberately misled Mark Arsten with 'he responds with "You don't be absurd" and persists in accusing me of doing something I quite obviously didn't do.' When Orlady right after that absurd post of mine, wrote- 'I stand corrected on the history'. She was referring to the Wirtland article and Nyttend's history there, aka his adding deletion tags to the article. Giving one side of the story in an attempt to mislead is unbecoming of an administrator, as is his bungled deletion tags without an explanation and all the other particulars I laid out over at Orlady's page.  In light of the Mark Arsten 'petulant piece of shit' affair(That I link to above) that didn't end in him getting blocked, blocks for anything less severe than words is totally hypocritical around here. When did I call Nyttend any names?...William 16:06, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I think this block is a bit too much. I'm not even clear on what is considered a pa. Competence? That gets used by editors about other editors often. Admins need a thicker skin if being accused of lack of competence is a pa. Or was it something else?

It is clear that William and Nyttend do not see eye to eye on some issue (and I haven't been able to tease out exactly what happened), but in view of the intense back and forth, I think blocking for such a relatively mild statement is counter-productive. I think William sometimes sees admin abuse where none exists, but it doesn't help the situation to be quick on the trigger. I haven't read the full background, so I am hesitant to overturn the block, my hope is that User:Orlady will do the needful herself. As for the declination one the grounds that ''it does not address the reason for your block, my reaction is "ouch". I've searched, and do not yet see the reason. Maybe someone could explain it more clearly. If an editor thinks an admin is making serial errors (even if the assumption is incorrect) is it a blockable offense to suggest that the admin should resign?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  16:09, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

User:WilliamJE, you've twice suggested that someone called someone 'a petulant piece of shit'. You indicated that you provided a link, but I don't see it. Can you provide the link?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  16:12, 31 January 2014 (UTC)


 * SP, I'll take you post by post with differentials for everything that happened if you'll promise to check it all. Here is the 'shit' link[] you requested in the meantime....William 16:17, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for providing that link William. I do not see that it is relevant to the present situation other than being an example of an admin behaving badly. I have some thoughts on that issue, but would prefer to concentrate on the present issue.


 * I was literally composing a request for general diffs, when you suggested that you would provide them if I'll promise to read them. I will. It is my experience that when one of involved in an intense debate, which spills over onto multiple page, the center of that issue may think the sequence of events should be clear to all readers, but it is less clear that you might think. I haven't been following this issue. I came to it this morning based on an offhand comment at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard. I am struggling to get up to speed, which isn't easy. A list of diffs would be helpful. -- S Philbrick (Talk)  16:46, 31 January 2014 (UTC)


 * [EC] Some history: I became aware of this situation because I have WilliamJE's talk page on my watchlist, after past interactions (I forget the specifics). The edit summary that first caught my eye (and that I commented on above) was actually milder than an earlier one. I looked into what was going on between WilliamJE and Nyttend. The interactions mostly occurred on Nyttend's talk page and relate to Articles for deletion/Wirtland (micronation) and the associated article; also see User talk:Mark Arsten. After WilliamJE showed up on my talk page today with a diatribe against Nyttend, I posted an "only warning" (Nyttend had earlier issued a "final warning") here regarding the continuation of his personal attacks. After he removed the warning from this page, he returned to my talk page and added to his bill of particulars against Nyttend with three additional edits. That led me to conclude that it was time for an enforced wikibreak to help him calm down. --Orlady (talk) 16:23, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Besides a need to keep up on critics of administrators, I don't know why you'd have my talk page on her watch list. A check of my talk page history shows she has NEVER EVER EDITED HERE until this week. A check of her talk page shows I only posted there one series of edits when I was critical of another administrator. Which brings me to the words I said in the first sentence of this edit....William 16:10, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * As I indicated, I watchlisted this page due to past interactions -- not necessarily on this page. I've figured out why I had you on my watchlist -- in August 2013, you had a disagreement with The Rambling Man regarding editing of White County, Tennessee; I agreed with your position, at least in part (see article history) and I watchlisted your talk page so I would be aware of any continued discussion that happened there. (That interaction is also the reason you posted on my talk page that one time, in this discussion.) --Orlady (talk) 17:02, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * For the record, the warning that preceded the block said, in part:
 * You've already had a "final warning," so I could block you right now. However, I don't like to do that to productive contributors, so I'm hoping this warning will make a bigger impression on you, coming from a different user. If you persist in your obsessive (and apparently baseless) personal attacks on User:Nyttend, you should expect to receive a forced vacation from Wikipedia editing.  --Orlady (talk) 16:28, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The problem with that statement is that the comments were't baseless and they weren't really personal attacks (if they were they were very weak ones and not worthy of a block). Also, anyone who takes the time to read Nyttend's talk page will see that William was being calm and Nyttend was the one being a jerk. Which frankly is pretty typical of them from my past experience with that admin. I see a lot that NYT could have done better as an admin here frankly...like discussing it without bing a WP:DICK.138.162.8.59 (talk) 16:39, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I realize that Orlady's block has to be justified based on the reason she gives for the block, but regardless of whether William should be unblocked on that narrow basis (I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be), I'd like to step back and look at the bigger picture. William generally thinks poorly of administrators. In addition to his general views, he singles out specific administrators as being unfit (note the comments above this section). When he complains, a self-fulfilling prophecy kicks in because any administrator who disagrees with him is protecting their colleagues. So, William harasses administrators under the guise of "reasonably" complaining about an administrator's conduct, which, generally, he has a right to do.

William is going about this wrong. If he has a complaint about a specific admin, he should bring that complaint to the proper forum and provide evidence for sanctioning the admin. If, however, he brings it to AN or ANI and feels that he is getting short shrift from other administrators, he can start an RfC/U and ultimately go to ArbCom if he can't get "justice" anywhere else. If he believes that everyone, including arbitrators, are going to close ranks and do nothing, then his problem isn't with specific administrators but with Wikipedia's governance, in which case he would have to focus on that very broad issue. He'd probably say that all of this would be a waste of his time (he's said that before about various similar issues), but my retort is, if it's a waste of his time, why doesn't he just do something else and stop wasting his time?--Bbb23 (talk) 16:47, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with much of what your saying but I disgree on a couple of key points. First, going to Arbcom with a problem is a waste of a month. Its extremely unlikely anything would be done (eventhough NYT has been there before) and its even less likely they would listen to someone who is not an admin. Secondly, William and others complain about admins because frankly nothing is done about the abusive ones. Even the good ones (which is the 99%) just stands aside and lets the 1% of their peers be abusive and act up. So to say that there is a problem with admins is justifiable and to say that too often they protect their at the expence of policy and the project is also true. Its not just William making this up, this is a well documented and frequently observed routine that IMO has driven awa a lot of editors and potential editors. So although I generally agree he is going about this in the wrong way, there is no right way either, so in the end it doesn't matter how he goes about it, the end result will be the same. I also want to be clear that I think your insinuation that William should just move on and quite wasting his time with Wikipedia is utterly unnacceptable and innapprorpiate. We need editors to stay, not be told to go away or worse. 138.162.8.59 (talk) 17:15, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Bbb23, taking a complaint against an administrator to an ANI is a waste of time. No administrator will be blocked for imposing a totally unjustified block or for them criticizing an a non-administrator. It is also an extrememly rare occurrence for an admin to overturn a block. As for an RFC or arbcom, I have no opinion. I've never taken part in anything related to those. What isn't a waste of time is keeping vigilant for those who have been wrongly blocked by an admin. Bbb23 you may recall the Joefromrandb versus Tigershark business over at ANI from late November. Joe had been blocked, and two administrators while saying Tigershark's block was wrong, wouldn't overturn. I got myself involved and after enough non name-calling badgering from me, Tigershark asked for a block review at ANI. His block of Joe was eventually overturned. My fighting for Joe was worth it, but it probably came at the cost of my name being shit to an even longer list of administrators.
 * I'd rather continue adding win and playoff boxes to articles on European Tour golfers. When Orlady blocked me, I was in the middle of getting Peter Oosterhuis done. That work is lost now. Was that a gain or loss for WP?...William 17:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * User:SphilbrickI see you found some of the edits. Here's one where Nyttend reverted after someone undid his making the page a redirect. That's a clear case of violating BRD. Then on his talk page, Nyttend wrote to me 'Please do not continue to restore it'. A pretty sure case of his thinking BRD is above him or that he WP:OWNed the article. Neither of which is acceptable as was his telling me not to restore the page. Which BTW I don't give a rat's ass about one another. I've told Nyttend to start an AFD if he wants on more than one occasion, for example here. If you need more differentials, holler....William 17:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have now seen some of the diffs (Thanks User:Orlady) It is looking to me like a series of misunderstandings, escalating due to mistaken assumptions about other's actions or motives.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:09, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Sphilbrick Look at Orlady's comment here in defense of Nyttend. Where she got the events wrong and had to correct herself here[]https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nyttend&diff=593050190&oldid=593048784. And all doing this when her only mentioned attack of mine on Nyttend she was using for her warnings is the one saying he should quit as an administrator. Which multiple editors have said isn't an attack. So why am I still blocked when the blocking administrator has been provably wrong on multiple occasions towards me? Tell it is something other than administrators refusal to overturn one another....William 18:13, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * William, admins are reluctant to overturn another's actions, especially when the situation is gray. You might not like that, but if you think about it hard, you will understand why that is the case. That said, I'm preparing a post to you in which I will offer to unblock you, but I need to check something first.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:18, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Even if the block is removed, it remains a part of my history and it can be used against me. Fairly or unfairly. Here's a case of an administrator who couldn't count blocks straight when using the number of blocks as a basis for length of block. Check this out....William 18:22, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Bbb23 I largely agree with your assessment, but I think it is fair to say that some of the admins involved aren't going to get commendations for exemplary behavior. For example:
 * In this section, User:Nyttend states  that despite what William told you, I never even edited the AFD that he closed,. I looked at Williams opening claim Can you please take the AFD tags off this article? I closed the AFD[37] as a WP:NADC speedy keep. No explanation given for the nomination. Administrator Nyttend comes into an article he hasn't edited in over 4 years, nominates it for deletion without giving a reason, then blanks the page WITHOUT EXPLANATION. Check the page history but do not see that William made such a claim. If it was made elsewhere, it should have a diff.
 * William clearly thinks (or thought) that Nyteend nominates it for deletion without giving a reason. William turns out to be wrong, but read this diff, with edit summary (Nominating for deletion)  and tell me why that was an unreasonable assumption?
 * User:Nyttend objects to Williams characterization of this edit as a blanking of the page. Nyttend is technically correct, as replacing a four year old article by a redirect is not technically blanking, but is it warranted? Without any discussion or rationale? I can sympathize with someone thinking that it was presumptuous, and to be called on the carpet for labeling something as blanking, when it technically was not, is a bit much.
 * this constitutes actionable personal attack? Please.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  17:20, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * , a few points. I'm not looking at this as a "personal attack" block but as a harassment block, which is stated in the block. Regardless of whether Nyttend behaved perfectly, as I stated, William's approach, not just to Nyttend but as to other administrators as well, isn't constructive. Even he pretty much admits most of my assumptions (about administrative noticeboards and about ArbCom ). I'm just trying to steer this conversation away from this block and the Nyttend issues and direct William into a more constructive approach to the problems he perceives. But I'm not sure if it's possible because of the historical baggage and the assumption that nothing will work. Throwing barbs at administrators and short sound bytes as to the entire administrative corps isn't the way to sort out administrator misconduct. That said, you and others are welcome to discuss the narrower issues associated with this block.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:21, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Please help me out. You said I'm not looking at this as a "personal attack" block but as a harassment block. I've read the block message twice; I see 'personal attacks' mentioned, I do not see harassment mention. What am I missing?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:30, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I understand your views that William is not going about this the right way. I concur. However, he is blocked at the moment, and understandably, thinks that the block is the current matter. I can't disagree. I've asked User:Orlady for more explanation, as I thought I knew what caused the block, but now I'm not so sure.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:33, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It's in the block log. It should have also been put in the block notice to be clear. If it was Orlady's intention to block only for making personal attacks, that makes the block less supportable. Like you, I'd like to hear more from her.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:40, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * My bad for not checking the block log. However, I think it is not reasonable for an editor to think they should check the block log to find out why they were blocked. I think it is reasonable to assume that the block notice contains the reason. I realize William isn't new, and may be familiar with a block log, but unless I'm missing something, the block log is not linked in the message. If policy allows us to give an incorrect reason to an editor in a block message, while hiding the real reason in a block log, not mentioned to the editor, then we need to revise policy.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:51, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Convenience break
This edit was cited as the reason for the block. I asked above for more clarity on exactly what was wrong. I didn't get an answer, but I appreciate that a lot has been said on this page, and as I may have missed questions to me, I cannot fault someone who may have missed questions directed to them. I specifically asked at her talk page. The edit has several sentences, none of which constitute a personal attack. IMO of course. I accept that others may have different hurdles. My intent is to find out which of the statements in the edit is the offending one, and ask William if he would be willing to avoid such statements, even if some do not see them as personal attacks. If William agrees, I am inclined to unblock. Does anyone disagree?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:41, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * [EC] As I've indicated on my talk page, in response to your query there, that one diff actually combines 3 separate edits. My concern was not about the specific words in those 3 edits, but the fact that the user had deleted my warning from this talk page, then immediately went back to my talk page to expand upon his accusations against Nyttend. The first of the three edit summaries there indicated that he was finishing his comment; if that had been his last edit, I would have shrugged it off. The fact that he went on to make two more edits is what led me to think he wasn't ready to stop attacking. --Orlady (talk) 19:02, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Have you ever gotten a message from someone when you're in the middle of writing something else, then take a second to reply?...William 19:05, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * A very surgical approach, . I have no problem with it.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:59, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * So let me get this righy Bbb23, William is unfairly blocked by an admin who clearly has acted rashly (Orlady) in support of another admin who acted even more rashly (Nyttend) and William should just let it go and move on? This doesn't seem reasonable nor realistic. You are an admin and so is Sphilbrick yet neither of you has the power or authority to undo the block simply because Jpgordon beat you both to the admin review/unblock request? It seems like you both have a problem with this block but yet neither of you have taken it to the next step (ANI). William can't even if he wanted too because he is blocked but you both have the ability of asking for a review of the case. You both also have the ability of going to Arbcom which in this case I think is warranted towards Nyytend for his failure to constructively discuss the matter with William and potentially for Orlady's unnecessary rash action in backing up her fellow administrator and absurd block reasoning. If I were William, I would feel pretty helpless and alone. If admins are allowed to act and do whatever they want against non admins and no one does anything to stand up to these abuses then how can we expect to attract new editors or retain the ones we have? This whole situation is disgraceful. 138.162.8.59 (talk) 18:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't feel powerless. (See below). However, despite being an admin for some time, I have never, to my recollection, overturned a block of someone else without their permsision so this is an EXCEEDINGLY big deal to me, and I don't apologize for taking a few minutes to make sure I'm on solid ground. I disagree that this should be headed to ANI or ARBCOM. It is a relatively minor series of disagreements, coupled with misunderstandings.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Things get escalated to ANI and and ARBCOM all too quickly. While I see some problems here, I also see multiple editors conversing, and while not pretty some progress being made. Bringing this to ANI is likely to slow the process down, not move it along. If progress fails to occur, perhaps then it is time to try ANI, but not yet.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:22, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok maybe your not powerless and I agree that William isn't helping his case but at the same time he has a valid point that if an admin oversteps their bounds we shouldn't need to take a knee, kiss the ring and admit we were wrong just to be have a block removed that should have never even been made. Especially knowing the culture of this place where a block in the log, valid or not, will be held against the editor for the rest of their wikicareer. He will have to explain that block forever and most admins won't give it a second thought in justifying another block because he already has one (and by extension in their minds a history of abuse). You have always been fair Sphilbrick and you are in my opinion one of the best admins, but there are few of you and a lot of abusive ones and the system doesn't allow for those bad admins to be removed. They are there forever. Nyttend has a history of abusing the tools and Orlady's record is spotty, yet both still have the tools and there is no stomach for comments that either should be held accountable in what has become a pattern of bad decisions for the both of them. So I do not agree that Arbcom or ANI is out of the question at this point. Unfortunately I also know that in all likleyhood both ANI and Arbcom would end in failure and would only enable them and others to continue to abuse the tools. It is also very likely that William would see the hevy hand of punishment since he is not the admin and only a mere editor. I applaud the way you are attempting to fix the system Sphilbrick and your attitude and willingness to listen is commendable. But this whole situation is a disappointing and disgraceful display of how far the state of policies have devolved in Wikipedia's culture. 138.162.8.59 (talk) 19:30, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'd like to quote the take the knee part at my User Page when this discussion ends or my block....William 19:38, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You said admin oversteps their bounds we shouldn't need to take a knee, kiss the ring and admit we were wrong just to be have a block removed. I agree. One of my pet peeves. I've wanted to write an essay about it but haven't found the time or the right words. Frankly, the dynamic reminds me of inmates in a prison who are forced to grovel. I hope you will note that my proposed unblock request does not include the phrase "I was wrong" or anything equivalent. I tried to make it easy, and I am getting frustrated that William seems to want to talk about anything but how to get unblocked.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:39, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Feel free William, here are a couple images you might find amusing.:-) All in good fun of course.
 * I appreciate that you recognize that what I am saying occurs, that is more than most of the other admins will admit even though they know it, have seen it and some even engage in it. I agree with your comparison of Prison life, another ironic similarity is that inmates often feed off the misery of others and are attracted by weakness. Many in Wikipedia suffer from teh same infliction and its unfortunate that more isn't done to fix this problem. Its driving editors away (including me) and if something isn't done people will start referring to this project in the past tense like AOL and Myspace.




 * Enjoy. 138.162.8.59 (talk) 20:15, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

unblock offer
William, it is my opinion that while I understand you are frustrated, your decision to personalize the responses to Nyttend makes it easier for others to ignore the substance of your complaints (which presumably is the main issue) and concentrate on the way you deliver your message. It may occur to you to wonder why I am about to ask you to change and not Nyttend. The answer is simple. You are blocked, Nyttend is not, so the first order of business is to unblock you. If you will agree to try to follow the adage comment on the edit, not on the editor, I will follow up with some suggestions to you on how better to frame your concerns, as well as some questions to Nyttend to see if I can understand why some of the actions were undertaken. If you agree, I will unblock you.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:06, 31 January 2014 (UTC)


 * What you and other editors want me to do is shutup and leave all of you alone. Who's then going to stand up against abusive administrators? Very few have the guts because thing like today happen. I refuse to stop calling abusive administrators to task and Orlady has joined that list. Look what I think of her harrassment basis for my block. It is pure bs. How can I harrass Nyttend when I haven't addressed him in almost two days? The fact of the matter is, Nyttend was the one who started things back up that had laid dormant for over two days. Orlady should be facing dysopping for what she has done. Her protection of a fellow administrator is more important than Wikipedia's integrity....William 19:12, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You are wrong William, when you claim harassment is impossible if you haven't directly addressed him.
 * I repeat my request to you. If you agree, and I fail to follow up, then you will be right to admonish me. But let's take this one step at a time.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:15, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You are also wrong when you assert What you and other editors want me to do is shutup and leave all of you alone. Making such silly claims doesn't help your position. Please try to focus. I've offered to unblock you if you simply agree to something that we expect of all editors. How hard can that be?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:17, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Read what Orlady wrote on her talk page to you- 'and would quit posting his complaints. Since nobody calls her on this, I have every right to think you support her wanting me to quit posting my complaints....William 19:23, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I read it. I am trying to focus. You are blocked. I have proposed conditions for you to get unblocked. If you agree, I will unblock you and we can talk about next steps. I would think you would agree that getting unblocked is the main order of business. If you'd prefer to whine about Orlady, let me know, and I'll unwatch this page and get some constructive editing done.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:27, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The unblock is going to happen whether I do or don't do anything. The stain on my block log is permanent and can be used wrongly against me. I've seen it happen to another editor and if you so care, I'll send you the differentials. At this point the only thing I want is Orlady's apology and her resignation would be icing.
 * BTW I will be away from the computer starting about thirty minutes from now....William 19:33, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * William, I respectfully request that you next post to this page either be acceptance of the conditions, or reasons why they are not acceptable. If you post anything else, I will conclude that you aren't interested in getting unblocked, and will unwatch this page. Which also means I will not have to follow up on my other contingent promises to look into other aspects of this incident.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:44, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree to try to follow the adage comment on the edit, not on the editor, but I won't agree to stop complaints against administrators I think are out of line. Today won't be forgotten by me, but not in a personal way against you. Now I'm out of here for at least 90 minutes.19:51, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have unblocked you.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:58, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I do not want you to stop complaining about admins who are out of line. I'd like to off some advice on how best to do that, but, at the moment, I want to make clear that my unblock request did not contain such a request directly or indirectly.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  20:01, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Orlady is full of garbage
On her talk page she is now claiming I was blocked for harrassing Nyttend. I haven't addressed Nyttend directly in almost two days. Check my edit history going back to here. What we have here is her not liking my opinions on her buddy that I posted here. If there was any justice at wikipedia, Orlady would be blocked for what she's done and a move would being made for her dysopping ASAP....William 18:58, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see how this helps you, William, either in the short- or long-term.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:01, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Coming from the same person who wrote earlier that I didn't think much of arbcom when in fact I said I had no opinion, this isn't worth much. Tell me and everyone else here what I wrote at the beginning of this section isn't true about Orlady's conduct....William 19:03, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed about the ArbCom issue. I initially read another sentence in your comments as relating back to ArbCom. Having how reread them, I was wrong.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Please stop digging William, I am trying to help you. Please meet me partway.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:12, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

William, we've had our differences, and recently I've been through a situation where it's clear common sense is seldom applied. I also reacted negatively to this, but there's little point. Your best bet is to crack on with the good mainspace work you do. Most admins and most of the people we (you and I) often have issues with aren't here to improve the encyclopaedia, they're just here to attempt to govern it, and they do it rather badly. Let's find something better to do, you give me an idea on an article to expand, and we'll get on with together, thus bettering mankind and Wikipedia. Deal? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:49, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * No deal? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:42, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Right now I'm a mix of feelings. Some of it due to my having something to do on Tuesday that's incredibly important and it has me very stressed. Do note however my recent note to admin Sphilbrick. I will keep my promise to Sphil no matter what Nyttend or Orlady say next on the topic. I also made a small attempt at humor at ANI of all places. I've been swinging from letting off steam to trying to further improve golf articles, read what I saywiki/User:WilliamJE#Can_someone_please_tell_me_what_Calvin_Peete.27s_lifetime_PGA_Tour_playoff_record_was.3F about Wikipedia golf articles. Since I came off block I've added win and or playoff boxes to 14 golfer articles. Do you really want to work on golf articles? There are still some crash articles in need of being done, but I'd have to look for them. I'll go looking for them but not till probably after Tuesday's stuff try to understand and lets keep hoping my steam level keeps going down. I'm trying....William 02:17, 3 February 2014 (UTC)


 * TRM- Note I am refraining from anything further here. That editor's ignorance is hilarious and he just refuses to stop it. It was especially funny when he replied back to you. Would Summer's attitude be different if he knew the history you and I have and that we're now working together sometimes instead? I hope it would be but my hopes aren't high....William 03:03, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I mentioned yo at ANI
I completely understand if you wish to stay out of this discussion but I wanted to let you know I mentioned you at ANI here. 108.48.100.44 (talk) 03:46, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Your use of multiple Wikipedia accounts
Sum mer PhD (talk) 15:17, 1 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I replied to this at SPI. This sockpuppet accusation is maybe the funniest thing that ever happened to me at Wikipedia....William 16:02, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I did too. I wished I found this funny but this is a not so subtle personal attack designed to send a message to both of us that Admin abuse is not only allowed and accepted but encouraged and advocated. And they wonder why people aren't editing as much anymore and why Wikipedia isn't drawing as many new users. This whole SPI is disgraceful and Summer should be blocked for a couple days for personal attacks. That won't happen because she is supporting admins and they will come to her defense but that is what should happen. 108.48.100.44 (talk) 16:20, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I almost removed this myself but decided it's your talk page and your choice. But just in case you arn't sure, you are welcome to remove this from your talk page at any time.--v/r - TP 07:41, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

1938 Colombia air accident
es:Accidente aéreo de Santa Ana Yngvadottir (talk) 20:07, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool, but I think the en article is already superior. Any more sources?  The Rambling Man (talk) 20:20, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * There is an English wikipedia article on this article?...William 20:27, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry William, I got confused, I meant that the sources you'd already notified me of would make an article better than that at es. I found one or two other sources but they generally seemed to be vague about deaths etc.  Still worth an article though. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:33, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh it definitely deserves an article. I found this but I don't read Spanish. Maybe I can call on editor Jetstreamer to help out. He lives in Argentina....William 20:39, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I've replied to the comment made by William at my talk page, but you can count on me. The only problem is that I'm kinda busy these days --Jetstreamer $Talk$ 20:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Fantastic job at the Portuguese Wikipedia! pt:Desastre do show aéreo de Santa Ana. Several newspaper sources. Russian is between the two. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:38, 6 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I just created Santa Ana air show disaster. The article needs a infobox and the article definitely can be expanded. I just began it. Feel free to improve it....William 13:51, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Great! I've linked it via Wikidata and will see what I can add, though I wouldn't be surprised if others get to it first :-) Best of luck at the doc's. Yngvadottir (talk) 14:19, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Personal note
I'm seeing the doctor today to make sure I'm not having a recurrence of malignant melanoma. In the 1990's I had four separate melanomas diagnosed on my body and excised. Hopefully the mole on my arm isn't number five. Should the mole need a biopsy, I may be slow to respond here for a few days....William 14:02, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Update- The doctor did decide to do a biopsy. He doesn't think it is cancerous but in light of my history chose to be cautious. I have stitches in my arm. That will slow my editing but I'll be around....William 20:41, 7 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Take care your health is more important than Wikipedia. MilborneOne (talk) 20:47, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I hope the news continues to be positive.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  20:55, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Take of your health-RFD (talk) 21:39, 7 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I came here to leave a "talkback" flag for the message you left me, and noticed this. As a dermatologist I deal with this on a daily basis, and I completely agree with your doc's decision to biopsy, in light of your history (which is quite unusual, but not unheard of).  Most dermatologists know a MM when they see it, so I'm confident that this one will be benign if he thinks it is -- but you'll be on pins & needles 'til the biopsy comes back, of course.  Hope your lab works quickly!  Milborne is right, your health is more important than WP.  Any questions, don't hesitate.  All the best,  DoctorJoeE  review transgressions/ talk to me!  15:41, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Dr. Rabinovitz has my complete trust. He's been my dermatologist since 1999. I see him twice yearly. In fact I drive 45 miles one way to see him because I like this doctor. My first derm was good but he went off my insurance. Derm #2 had an office staff full of idiots. Short story version of a long story- The doctor forgot to note when he first saw me that I had to come for follow-up. When I tried making a appointment in the old 'you need a referral' days I was told by his staff I didn't have to come back. Well I argued with them- I have a history of MM and such patients always have followup, they argued back, which caused me tons of stress only for the office staff to say finally I did need to see the doctor. Then I told them I'm not coming back. Then there was Derm #2b who saw me, my history, and referred me to his colleague. Derm #3, whose office is 2 miles from my house, had the bedside manner of a gorilla and that's probably being unfair to gorillas. Dr. Rabinovitz is my 4th dermatologist. There were also two surgeons who did wider incisions after my first biopsies on a MM or DN came back showing they needed followup. One of those surgeons lost his license to practice medicine and went to jail. I have stories.


 * My 4 MM were diagnosed prior to my becoming his patient. This mole in question, developed on me after I become a patient of Dr. R. Back in 2000 I had full body photography(because I have dysplastic nevi syndrome and there are moles all over me. Even more so before they started being removed in the early 90's) and the mole wasn't there. It's raised and on the inside of my right arm and grew there sometime in the last ten years. Raised moles usually aren't MM but one of my 4 was such a case. Two were on my back, another on my upper left arm. The mole changed recently and became sensitive, and I immediately got in touch with the doctor. Now I have to wait for the biopsy results. Ugh!...William 16:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Yep, waiting is the worst. I always put a rush on any path specimen where MM is a possibility.  If you mean Harold Rabinovitz at U.Miami, I know him, and your trust is well-founded.  DoctorJoeE  review transgressions/ talk to me!  16:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Dr. Harold Rabinovitz is my doctor. He knows his business and has an excellent bedside manner. I go to his Plantation office. Dr R used to see patients in Boca Raton about 20 miles from my home. As long as he keeps practicing, I'll remain a patient of Dr. Rabinovitz. The doctor says the results should be back the end of this week. A week isn't so bad. Back in the 90's I had up to 3-week waits....William 16:49, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Miss India Worldwide India
This appears to exist, so I removed the speedy deletion tag. However, it's also clearly not notable, so I left the PROD tag on. Bearian (talk) 00:07, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Template:Burger King
seems the Burger King template fails the no EL in navboxes guideline? Frietjes (talk) 15:36, 11 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Taken care of....William 17:00, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Check IC #4
What do you mean by that? FonEengIneeR7 talk 14:58, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * IC #4= Inline citation number 4. It says nobody died. The pilots are critical....William 14:59, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Look at the date and the last sentence in the lead section.... FonEengIneeR7 talk 15:02, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

My biopsy results
They were negative. I go back to the Dr. on Friday just to get the stitches removed....William 16:56, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Excellent news!-RFD (talk) 16:31, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

No ELs in navboxes
I agree with that. The issue is that template like Template:Detroit Tigers roster is not a navbox. Template:Detroit Tigers roster navbox is the navbox, and it does not contain any external links. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:33, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

WP:Navbox is navigation templates and it reads 'Navigation templates do not provide external links to other websites. Detroit Tigers is a navigation template....William
 * Okay, fine. Can you help move those links into transclusions rather than simply deleting them? – Muboshgu (talk) 16:44, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * How do you make them transclusions? Write back here, I won't make further edits till you do so. My wife is coming home for lunch soon and I'm going out soon too. So I'm going to be not around for a while.


 * When you see me do Style edits and you wonder why I do them., check my edit summaries in the future. I almost always give a edit summary that links to things like WP:Navbox, WP:ELRC, WP:See also, WP:ORDER etc that explain why I did those edits....William 16:50, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm still not convinced Detroit Tigers roster is a navbox. It's a table of the team's roster. Its a template not to navigate between players on the roster, but as to not duplicate information between the current Detroit Tigers season (2014 Detroit Tigers season) and the main Detroit Tigers article. I'm fine with removing the "All MLB rosters" wlink though. — X96lee15 (talk) 16:53, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * On another note, the proper (and easier for you and a better place to gain consensus) way to make this change is probably to remove the links from the MLB Spring Training roster template, not to remove the fields from the individual transclusions of the template. This discussions should probably be taking place at Wikipedia talk:BASEBALL as opposed to here. This is a widespread change that I disagree with. I use those links all the time when making sure the rosters are up to date. — X96lee15 (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is for readers not editors. I read that at some WP:Manual of Style discussion....William 17:18, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The roster links are necessary in order to update the rosters. Stop removing them. These are not navboxes.Spanneraol (talk) 17:32, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * They are navigation templates. Template:Erie SeaWolves roster says Template and WP:navbox says do not provide external links to other websites. No exception for what is needed or not....William 19:12, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * See my comment above, I don't believe they are navboxes. I do agree that WP is for readers not editors though. I think of the links as references to verify the content of the rosters. — X96lee15 (talk) 19:34, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Exactly... This is a template that has other uses and is not just a navbox. Spanneraol (talk) 19:41, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

There's this School-IP, 165.234.180.57....
Came across a School-IP that was put on a 4-year block 5 November 2013, but then on 7 November 2013 was released from that block per a communication from you to the blocking admin (see Block log's most recent edit summary). Well, the IP has persisted in their vandalizing ways, especially in February. Every edit since they were released from the November 2013 block seems to have been vandalism. Just wanted to let you know that if they vandalize another article this month I am going to place a Level 4/Persistent Vandalism Warning on their talk page. Shearonink (talk) 20:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Do whatever you have to do. If I recall correctly Toddst1 slapped a block for an edit that could just as well been a typo. Toddst1's administrative actions have him at arbcom at the moment. Back to what's going on now, if the IP is vandalizing, report it. I beat back obvious vandals too. Cheers!...William 21:26, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, I try to stay away from the various Noticeboards, didn't even notice who had done the block/unblock. It's just that before I ratchet up the Warnings or request a Block, if I notice that a fellow editor is a mentor or an interested party, as a courtesy I always attempt to let them know about these types of things. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 22:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Congratulations
My congratulations to your wife and yourself on your 25th wedding anniversary! I like the photo of your wife, the bishop, yourself. Many thanks-RFD (talk) 20:12, 22 February 2014 (UTC)