Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1876 FA Cup final/archive1

1876 FA Cup final

 * Nominator(s): ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Here's my third (and probably last, at least for the time being) nomination of an article on a Victorian FA Cup final. One of the most striking things about this one was that one factor in the losing team losing was that several of their key players were missing due to "other commitments". Can you imagine some of the Man City or Man United players this year saying "well, I'm terribly sorry boss, but I can't possibly play in the FA Cup final because I am busy that day"? :-) Feedback as ever will be most gratefully received and most swiftly acted upon -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Image review


 * File:1896_FA_Cup.jpg: the tagging in use requires that the image description specify the research undertaken to attempt to identify the author
 * the author of what, the trophy itself? Presumably that would be the person/people who actually made it?  According to the National Football Museum and various other sources (both online and books), it was made by a silversmithing firm called Vaughton's of Birmingham, but none of them give any details of the individual specific craftsperson/people who worked on it.  Even the company which bought out Vaughtons 30 years ago don't list this information.  Some sources say that former footballer Howard Vaughton "was commissioned to make the trophy", but as he was a director of the firm I don't think we can take that wording as concrete proof that he was the one who literally physically made it.  I have added all this to the Commons page.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * - upon some further delving, I found an image which is PD (published in 1889) and has the advantage of depicting the actual trophy awarded in 1876 rather than a later replica. Please let me know if this one is OK -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:14, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * That's fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)


 * As File:Cricket,_WG_Grace,_1891-_Kennington_Oval.jpg is hosted on Commons it needs a tag for status in country of origin. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Done -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As with the previous above image, this tag needs you to note in the image description what was done to try to identify the author. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * - that is done :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Pseud 14

 * In the semi-finals the Wanderers defeated the Swifts -- comma after semi-finals
 * but the Etonians equalised with a -- worth linking to equaliser (sports) as it the term seems to have an article.
 * while the Etonians' team included Hon. Edward Lyttelton and his brother Hon. Alfred Lyttelton and Albert Meysey-Thompson and his brother Charles. -- I think a comma is needed after Hon. Alfred Lyttelton
 * As of the 21st century it remains the only FA Cup final -- comma after century
 * The Telegraph reporter praised Quintin Hogg -- I think for consistency - it should also be The Daily Telegraph as you have used throughout the article
 * Following their equaliser, the Etonians had the better of the play -- I would link the term in this instance in the body
 * According to the Daily Telegraph's report, -- According to The Daily Telegraph's report,
 * There continued to be free kicks awarded to both teams for handball. -- perhaps this can be tweaked to maybe Free kicks continued to be awarded to both teams... or something along those lines.
 * That's all I got. Great work as always. Pseud 14 (talk) 13:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * all done (I think) with this edit -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. Pseud 14 (talk) 13:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Prose review from Z1720
Non-expert prose review


 * "The Wanderers had won the Cup" maybe "The Wanderers won the Cup"? This is your personal preference and will not influence my support
 * "The Etonians were forced to make a number of changes" -> to make several changes to their roster


 * "and the revised team was no match for the Wanderers,": "no match" might be going into MOS:CLICHE territory. What about "causing the revised team to be defeated 3–0." It also shortens the sentence
 * "which had first been codified in England in 1863." I'm not convinced that this is needed, and it confused me if the 1863 date was referring to the Cup or the Association.
 * "The final also took place at Kennington Oval." Delete also
 * "for an FA Cup final up to that point." Delete up
 * "to the extent that when Frederick Maddison took a corner kick" -> and when Frederick
 * "by the defending of Francis Birley and William Lindsay." William Lindsay links to a disambiguation page, which should be corrected.
 * "Neither team could manage to score another goal, however, and the game finished with the scores level," Remove however as it is not needed here.
 * "Yet more free kicks were" Delete Yet as it is unnecessary

Those are all of my comments. Z1720 (talk) 18:53, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
 * - thanks for your review. All changes made - I used a different wording for point 2 as the word "roster" is not used in that context in British English -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:41, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. My concerns have been resolved. Z1720 (talk) 14:11, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

PCN02WPS
That's all from me. PCN02WPS ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "first entered the FA Cup in the 1873-74 season but" → switch to en-dash
 * Not sure that there's a great solution to this, but would there be a good alternative to "Match" as a section header for the first match? I guess this could be standard but I feel like they could both be classified as "Match", but "First match" or "First meeting", etc., doesn't sound great to me either
 * "and for the final Albert played under the name Thompson..." → was there a reason for them playing under different names?
 * Not that any source I have found mentions -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "Neither team could manage to score" → wording could be marginally simplified to "Neither team managed to score"
 * In the template in "Details", the placement of "(unconfirmed)" makes it seem as though the goal itself (or the time) was unconfirmed; could this be moved to after "Bonsor" but before the ball icon?
 * "According to The Daily Telegraph's report" → I think it would be helpful to clarify that this happened after the Wanderers' third goal and was not part of the buildup to it
 * - thanks, points above actioned -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Happy to support. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 01:48, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Therapyisgood
Therapyisgood (talk) 20:20, 8 May 2024 (UTC) -  - thanks for your review, responses above -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm aware the newspapers.com refs don't need URL-access=subscription because the clippings are free to view.
 * Done -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. "The match ended in a 1–1 draw, the second consecutive FA Cup final to finish level." But above you say the "second consecutive final, having lost in the 1875 match." can you add something like "after a replay" after "lost in the 1875 match" to clarify this?
 * Amended -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The Wanderers and Old Etonians were both allocated matches at home in the first round by whom? Was it by record during the regular season? Also is there a regular season, or is this all post season? Can you clarify?
 * Amended. At the time the FA Cup was literally the only football competition that existed, so there was no concept of "regular season" and "post season" (and indeed there still is no such concept in English football but that's not relevant to this article) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "As of the 21st century" can you be more specific? The reference to which this is cited was published in 2003, which doesn't speak for the entire 21st century.
 * I know for a fact that this is still true, but I don't have a more up-to-date source that explicitly states it. I can remove it completely if this is a deal-breaker..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The crowd was estimated at 3,500 does the source say who made that estimate?
 * Amended -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * defending the Harleyford Road end any idea the direction? IE North or sourth or east or west or some combination?
 * ''Sources don't say, sorry. I suppose I could look at a map to work out at which georgraphical point of the ground that road is, but this would probably be OR and I'm not really sure that the compass direction is especially significant anyway..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The referee had the option to order thirty minutes of extra time but chose not to exercise this due to a number of players struggling with injuries is there any more you could add on this? IE examples of players?
 * The source isn't that specific, sorry -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support for FA. Therapyisgood (talk) 15:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Source review
Were sources 12 and 18 accessed in two different ways? Are FourFourTwo and The Sportsman (1865 newspaper)? Formatting seems otherwise consistentish and sources seem reliable. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I presume you meant to say "Are FourFourTwo and The Sportsman (1865 newspaper) reliable?" FourFourTwo is a major glossy national magazine with 30 years of publication history, no reputation for poor journalism, and the full editorial team one would expect of a major magazine.  The Sportsman was a daily national newspaper published for around 60 years.  One of its writers and editors was C. W. Alcock, who is sometimes called "the father of sports journalism" and is regarded as one of the most influential figures in the history of football.  I have no particular reason to doubt its reliability.  I fixed reference 12, to which for some reason I had failed to add a couple of parameters..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was about the reliability, not sure why I dropped the word. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * We've all done it :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Drive-by comment

 * "beat the 1874 FA Cup winners Oxford University". "FA Cup" is anachronistic. Perhaps just 'beat the 1874 winners Oxford University'? Gog the Mild (talk) 17:48, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * - done! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:11, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 18:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)