Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1980–81 Ipswich Town F.C. season/archive1

1980–81 Ipswich Town F.C. season

 * Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:04, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

The greatest season in "my" club's history. Everyone's second-favourite team, Ipswich fought on multiple fronts and could have won everything, the league, the League Cup, the FA Cup and the UEFA Cup, but fell short on all but one front. But still they punched above their weight by some magnitude. And with Bobby Robson at the helm, this was an incomparable season in the history of the club. This is a true labour of love so any question will be taken seriously and and worked on with diligence. Thank you in advance for your interest in the article and any time you might spend making this a definitive season coverage. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:04, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Comment by RetiredDuke
I went ahead and archived all links in the article, except for the ones already in the British Newspaper Archive. Just an heads up, the Times article from 2004 is dead and I couldn't find an archive for it. RetiredDuke (talk) 18:32, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Cheers dude. Replaced the dead one, it was easy.  Thanks for looking. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:58, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Image review
All images are appropriately licensed and captioned, except: That's all, thanks. Moisejp (talk) 17:48, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * For Arnold_Mühren.jpg, the source link https://www.nationaalarchief.nl/onderzoeken/open-data may be out of date.
 * Fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:12, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * For Kevin Beattie.jpg, I'm not sure that the link given for the source is helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Licensing
 * No idea what to say about this. I don't have access to the OTRS ticket which relates to this, so I don't know the source.  Someone who can access the ticket should be able to help.  In the meantime we just AGF.  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:12, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * cheers, comments above. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:12, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

OK, thanks for fixing the link for the first image, TRM. For the second image, possibly if, who originally uploaded the photo in 2008, can help, that would be great, otherwise I'm satisfied to assume good faith. Moisejp (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I no longer have access to OTRS, but based on what I put in image description page when I uploaded, it was somebody's personal photo of Beattie that they declared as PD. — howcheng  {chat} 00:55, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

It all looks good, then. Thank you. Moisejp (talk) 14:57, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Support from 54129
Leaving the claret and blue at the door for this one :)
 * Link Run-in and fixture congestion in lead? They're pretty specialist terms for our non-sportif readers.
 * I have done this although it felt a bit slutty linking a dab... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I was dumb, TRM—I didn't realise it was a dab page (even though, yeah, it says), just a stub. But it is a shame not to be able to explain the term.


 * If we're going to mention Frans Thijssen in the lead, I suggest a brief explanation of who he was, in order to justify mentioning him. Otherwise you might be fighting off tags for a while. (Actually just "The midfielder..." would probably suffice.)
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ipswich had ended the previous campaign... Would it be simpler to say "Ipswich had finished the previous season in third place...", etc; that would also avoid the repetition of "...that season's...That season..."
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ditto final Saturday of the League season, any need for that last "season"?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * his first of a prolific season to come—how about making this a separate sentence, such as "This was his/the first of a..."
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Link Bobby Robson on first usage.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * When you use a phrase like picking up maximum points, what say ye to those benighted folks who don't already know the AF scoring system?
 * Simply removed. Unnecessary fluff to the fact they won every game.  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * How about splitting the sentence Top scorer for the season...European Cup?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Noting that you also haven't linked Cooper on first use, I see they all get linked in the tables. That's a helluva lot of linking—surely just link one would do?
 * Linked Cooper. I'm going to think about delinking in those tables, or making them sortable (in which case the linking could remain).  I'll see how I feel about that!  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Sortable's a good idea for price-comparison purposes :)  ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * First names for Cooper, Brazil and Beattie? (Reading on, that applies to everyone that gets mentioned)
 * Done, and that's an artefact of not actually working on the article in top-to-bottom order. I realise I should do this and will double-double check before I'm done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Why had Terry been suspended?
 * Well I'm afraid the source doesn't reflect on that, but I strongly suspect that the only reason would have been he was naughty in the previous game (or hit a card limit over the previous games...) I'll see if I can find another source for the game preceding this one to see if sheds any light on the deal. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Great stuff! ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Got it, Henderson's book notes that Butch was sent off against Southampton. Judging by the team lineups for the game after the Brighton defeat, he was only out for one game, so I strongly suspect it was two yellow cards what did for him.  I've added the bare facts though.  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Who did Robson remark too?
 * I'm not sure. He was quoted in the associated source, but I highly doubt he made that remark to the Aberdeen Evening Express.  The source doesn't say who he said it to.  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think you need two "in"s: Ipswich ended the month in third place in the league, does it read okay with just the latter?
 * Probably reads better as "Ipswich ended the month third in the league" which is less fluff and less repetitive. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This is interesting: Town's performance was similar; is "Town" intentional, or has "Ipswich" been lost?
 * Just changed to "their" as it's unambiguous who "they" are from the following the sentence.  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Why is Eric Gates' sacking on "seemingly for..."? Is it uncertain what he was sent off for?
 * I think the dismissal wasn't in doubt, violent conduct, but the "seemingly" relates to the idea that he may have been retaliating. That's the bit that's in doubt. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Understood. ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * inflicting their second league defeat of the season on Ipswich How about "...inflicting Ipswich's second league defeat of the season"? Or even just "...inflicting Ipswich's second defeat of the season"?
 * The "league" bit is important, because Ipswich had already been defeated a couple of times in cup competitions prior to this second defeat in the league. But minor reword per your former suggestion.  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * twelfth anniversary as Ipswich manager, and a 5–1 defeat...
 * I think I missed a comma which might make this clearer? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Amazed you haven't linked your very own Portman Road!
 * Me too. Another FA mind you!  The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Not particularly important, but with manager Alan Durban to remark, since Robson remarked above, how about Durban commenting, or something?
 * Sure. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Manager of the Month?
 * Linked. (Earlier). The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * H'mm, "form"...
 * Sorry, not getting this one? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Not a major point. Just thought it might sound a little punditry, but we haven't got an article to link to (the nearest is Form (horse racing), but that's eggy). ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Ipswich easily won the replay 3–0, I wonder if we really need "easily"?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * with goals from Eric Gates (2) and John Wark, his 25th goal in... Possibly (to remove bracketed goals) something like "with two goals from Eric Gates and John Wark scoring his 25th goal in..."
 * Thanks, I was struggling on that one. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * {{{tq|In a match described as "a classic FA Cup tie"}}, by whom?
 * ESPN, added. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Abbreviation of Notts Forest to Forest; nothing wrong with this, it avoids repetition, but for consistency, what about Aston Villa, who are referred to >10 times in the prose, and yet never abbreviated once?
 * Mixed it up a bit for (Aston) Villa. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The semi-final was against Manchester City was played at... lose that first "was".
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Any detail Beattie broke his arm? (It's a level of violence not normally associated with football.)
 * Found a personal recollection of the event and added it in. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ouch, must've been a bullet head. ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Talking of abbreviating club names, I see Aris Salonika is shortened to Aris, rather than Salonika?
 * Yes, that's because the Salonika is common to other clubs, like you'd never shorten Manchester United to Manchester (because of City!). The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Check. ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Link hat-trick.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Aggregate?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * noting at the time... I think your previous remarks, etc, have been in the past tense.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Dutch player Johnny Rep put the away team in the lead... is "home team" intended here? (For what it's worth, personally I don't think his nationality adds much value—"Johnny Rep put the French into the lead" would probably work as well.)
 * Well I quite like the Dutch aspect, but since I'd previously noted Ipswich's home ground was Portman Road, I felt the reader could handle this stretch... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I admit I'm confused now! So are Ipswich at home, and that's why Rep is in the away team? It's just that, I'm reading Ipswich faced French team AS Saint-Étienne in the quarter-finals in March 1981, the first leg being held in the Stade Geoffroy-Guichard to indicate that Ipswich was playing in St Étienne's stadium, which would make them the away team? No problem with keeping the Dutch bit though. ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)]]
 * Gah, that's what happens when I try to rush things. It should (somewhat obviously now!!) say "put the home team" and thus now it does.  Sorry for the confusion and thanks for your patience! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:52, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * A brace?! Of grouse, perhaps :)
 * Linked. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * When you're quoting people, suggest consistency in capitalisation; you you both : "if we play like that and : "We have demolished, for example.
 * Well sure. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It was Wark's 13th goal of the European campaign and in scoring it he ensured that he had, perhaps? Good to get rid of "scoring" when you use "scored" a few words later.
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Ipswich, later recalled, "Most teams..., lower-case "m"?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Shame about the photobombing leg in the Wark image! :)
 * I love that image. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * In your Henderson book at the very bottom, you've got one too many digits in the ISBN.
 * I double-checked it and it looks fine to me? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it works for me now, odd. Cancel this one! ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Cheers TRM, bloody good article. ——  SN  54129  14:22, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * many thanks for your comments, I've addressed them all above, I think almost all of them entirely. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Cheers TRM, there's just one thing I'd like clarifying if you could, re. St Étienne. To mop my confused brow! ——  SN  54129  16:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * that last point addressed with my apologies for such clumsiness! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:52, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries, thought I was losing it! Good work. ——  SN  54129  18:57, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Support by Dweller
This is looking good. I noticed a lack of information about Paul Cooper. In such a magnificent season, the fact that he was the club's player of the year, means he was outstanding, yet the text only mentions him when we wasn't playing! Was it that season he saved a lot of penalties? There's generally a lack of mention of defensive players, except when they scored or were absent, which is I know hard to fix, but Cooper's omission is significant. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean Paul Cooper (footballer, born 1953).... Sure, I'll take a look to see if I can make more mention of him. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:29, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I noted his (and his defenders') 27 clean sheets and also discovered that he was man of the match in the UEFA Cup final second leg, so added that into the prose too. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Nicely done. I'll continue looking when I get a chance. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * whenever you can, of course. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Easily good enough for FAC. Splendid work on the dark side, TRM. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Support Comments from Truflip99
This article looks great from a quick glance and am reserving a spot for comments. Hoping you could provide comments to MAX Yellow Line in return. --truflip99 (talk) 22:24, 1 May 2020 (UTC) I think that's it from me. Great read. --truflip99 (talk) 23:07, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This equalled José Altafini's record of 14 goals for Milan in the 1962–63 European Cup. -- suggest adding to this so that it communicates that this was (1) the highest record at the time it was accomplished (2) later surpassed
 * I think (1) is covered by saying it was the record and (2) the lead isn't the place for that, this is explained in the prose later on. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * drawing with Leeds United, Liverpool and Manchester United, and a win at Sunderland -- perhaps better as "winning"?
 * Sure. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Terry Butcher was suspended, having been sent off in the Southampton match. -- I would link Sent off (association football) for readers who don't know what this entails
 * Good spot. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * still playing in three competitions -- perhaps link this phrase with Fixture congestion just to connect what you stated in the lead
 * Done something similar. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Ipswich needed to win both games to remain in the title chase, and led 1–0 at half-time against Middlesbrough at Ayresome Park... -- consider splitting
 * Split. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * courtesy of a Paul Mariner brace, and a goal from Russell Osman -- why comma here?
 * Removed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * There they faced Birmingham City... -- From* there?
 * Yes, revised. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The match ended in a goalless draw forcing a replay... -- comma
 * Recycled the comma from above. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I collided with in a collision with Dave Bennett during an aerial challenge. -- if this is the actual quote, might need [sic].
 * What was I thinking? Reworded precisely per quote. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Although Aris scored a third through midway through the second half -- grammar?
 * Yes, I think I was considering adding the name of the scorer but opted not to! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * the only negative being a trip to hospital -- the* hospital
 * Not in BritEng. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Widzew Łódź won the away leg 1–0 with Marek Pięta [pl] scoring for the hosts... -- comma
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Awards --> table, Notes column -- inconsistent use of full stops
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks for your comments and suggestions, I've responded to each of them above. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks great! Support. --truflip99 (talk) 16:39, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Sauce review by Cas Liber
Looking over...


 * Earwig's copyvio clear.


 * FN 3 used once - aligns with text.
 * FN 61 used once - aligns with text.
 * FN 46 used six five times - aligns with text on 5/6. Last use is to reference, " Leading the way was Wark, who set a UEFA Cup record by scoring 14 goals, including two in the final", which I can't see in source....
 * Formatting of refs is consistent.

So one minor issue above.Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC) all good now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks so much for that. I don't know what I was thinking there.  I've adjusted it on another article too.  Should be fine now. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Looks like just the image review -, are you satisfied? --Ealdgyth (talk) 14:01, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, sorry that wasn't clear. I had meant I was satisfied with the images. Thank you. Moisejp (talk) 14:56, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

--Ealdgyth (talk) 16:22, 8 May 2020 (UTC)