Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Josette Simon/archive1

Josette Simon

 * Nominator(s): BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:00, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

This article is about the award-winning actress Josette Simon, who appeared in the fondly-remembered UK sci-fi series Blake's 7 and went on to play leading roles for the Royal Shakespeare Company. No doubt some improvements to the article will be required, but I'd like to thank who conducted the GA review, and  and  for their peer review contibutions, for their valuable comments. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:00, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Image review. The existing image is appropriately licensed, but is there an image of the actual subject that could be added? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:59, 31 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, . I have searched several times and failed to find a free-to-use image. I contacted Simon's agency, who were really helpful, but the forwarded pemission from the photographer wasn't acceptable and the photographer did not respond to later requests. (see Commons discussion). I did think about whether a fair use image could be used, e.g. because some sources discuss Simon's constume in particular roles, but concluded that there wasn't a stong enough case. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 07:50, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, any further thoughts on this? Gog the Mild (talk) 12:09, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As the subject is living fair-use is a hard sell, so I guess we'll have to live without. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:55, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Comments Support from Chris

 * Put birth year in the lead and infobox, not just the first sentence of the body
 * "Cleopatra in Antony And Cleopatra (2017–18)" - no need for capital on And, also should be italicised
 * "She was awarded the Order of the British Empire in 2000" => "She was made an Officer of the Order of the British Empire in 2000"
 * Antony And Cleopatra is again written (twice) with a capital A on And in the RSC section
 * "Nightingale described her performance as " vivid and vital"" - there's a stray space after the opening quote mark
 * "In 2017, Simon took the role of Cleopatra in Antony and Cleopatra for the RSC" - no need to relink the play, it was linked earlier
 * "broadcast on the same channel in 1992" => "broadcast on the same station in 1992" ("channel" is not normally used when referring to radio)
 * Most of the "radio" section refers to TV and film roles.  Has a subheading gone AWOL....?
 * "Rick Groen of The Globe and Mail wrote that Simons "riveting performance" - apostrophe missing in Simon's
 * "a mismatch between the thriller plotline" - between the plotline and what else......?
 * Note a isn't a complete sentence so doesn't need a full stop
 * Think that's it :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, . I've made most of the changes - with one exception. As per the hidden note in the article, "The year of birth has been removed from the lead and infobox per WP:BLPKIND, at the request of Simon's agent, who edits Wikipedia as TomDale90. It should remain in the body of the article." I'll see what the consensus from reviewers is, before making any changes relating to this. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:55, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, if her agent doesn't want people to know her age it seems bizarre to remove it from the lead and infobox but not the body but fair enough...... Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:49, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Support from SusunW
Having reviewed this in detail during peer review and monitored its improvement, I am happy to support. In a final read through I noted minor issues, but they are not significant enough to impact my support, i.e.:

That's it from me. Well done Benny on the Loose! SusunW (talk) 14:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Something appears to be missing here "appealing an tough"
 * "The play transferred" begins a paragraph but the reader hasn't yet been told what play. I get that I am old school, but new paragraphs should always introduce the subject before replacing it with pronouns or generic terms. (Alternatively, you could just remove the paragraph break.)
 * Sentence beginning "Her character is married" seems a bit jarring with the verb tense in the present in the sentences about the role. (Yes I get that a role is active and can always be revived, but her portrayal happened in the past. And, I freely admit here as previously that I am totally unaware of conventions in speaking about film, TV, etc.) Same holds true in the following paragraphs "Joanna, who leaves Jamaica", "characters discover", etc.
 * "altered storyline" seems to be missing a "the", i.e. altered the storyline.
 * Many thanks for your advice here and at the peer review, . Hopefully I've now addressed your points above but let me know if I've missed anything. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:10, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, BOTL. SusunW (talk) 18:19, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Support from mujinga

 * As noted I gave comments at peer review and thought it was close to FA standard then
 * "the first principal part taken by a black actress for the company" - I added "by" and as I did so noticed "playing roles traditionally taken by white actresses" just above it, so perhaps one "taken by" can be rephrased
 * I used "filled2,and also changed one of three instances of "played" in the lead. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


 * "when it was unusual for black women to feature as leads in leading Shakespeare plays, Simon played several major roles for the RSC. Her first leading role," - three "lead"s in a short space of time
 * I removed the "leading", let me know if you think another subsitution is required. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


 * per MOS:…, ellipses should have a nbsp before them
 * Added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk)


 * "the couple had one daughter together but are now divorced" - maybe " the couple had one daughter together AND are now divorced" reads better but it's just something to consider
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


 * just a few nitpicks really, thanks a lot for bringing an article about a woman to FAC! Mujinga (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for providing helpful feedback here and at the peer review. Let me know if there's anything else to address. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice one, happy to support on prose Mujinga (talk) 11:50, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Source review - pass
Hawkeye7  (discuss)  23:59, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * fn 3 - page number?
 * Pending - I'll check if there are page numbers in the ebook at the British Library. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * There are no page numbers, or even locations, in the ebook. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * fn 20 - page numbers?
 * Unfortunately, there are no page numbers in the ebook. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Where's Jefferson?
 * I added North Carolina. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Alphabetical order: Rokison-Woodall should come after Rogers
 * Corrected. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Since the two Rogers are the same book, why do we have two entries?
 * Because there are no page numbers, I was doing my best to make it easier to locate the relevant part of the source. Let me know if there's a better way to handle this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Author-link Una McCormack, John Kenneth Muir, Abigail Rokison and Michael Scott (academic)
 * Added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks ; I'll reply on the first point in the next couple of days. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * , I've made the changes I could. Unfortunately I couldn't get page numbers for the ebooks. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright then. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  11:34, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to butt in here, but Gog the Mild offered me a solution when working on a similar situation. By inserting "|loc=Search phrase "blah blah" instead of pages, the reader can find the reference. It helps if the search phrase is a unique word or string of words. Don't know if that is helpful to you, but I offer it for your consideration. SusunW (talk) 14:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * that's a good tip SusunW - for an ebook on Lucy Parsons I used "|chapter=" but "|loc=Search phrase "blah blah"" is much more specific Mujinga (talk) 14:22, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks SusunW! I've implemented this; please let me know what you think, . Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:53, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, how is this looking now? Gog the Mild (talk) 14:46, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Passed. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:04, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

SC
Putting down a marker - SchroCat (talk) 21:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * SchroCat ? Gog the Mild (talk) 14:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the nudge - forgot to bookmark the page. Will be here tomorrow. - SchroCat (talk) 20:09, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * General
 * This swaps around a bit between the description of Simon as an actor and an actress. I see from the Guardian interview part way down she describes herself as an "actor", which may be the better path to choose
 * I was about to implement this change, but I got a bit stuck trying to use non-clunky phrases in instances like "the first principal part filled by a black actress for the company" where specifying that Simon is a woman is required. I think the only uses of "actor" outside a quote or award title are in "the best actor for the role" and "failed to play to her strengths as an actor", so would amending these would work as an alternative? If not, what's the best alternative to "black actress"? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think there are a few uses of "actress" that can naturally be made "actor" - although obviously not in quotes or titles or where it causes confusion. For example, there are four uses of "actress" in the lead and one in the IB: these can all be made "actor", with the exception of Evening Standard's Best Actress award, and this can be reflected throughout. Things like "first for a black actress at the RSC" probably has to remain as actress, as I think there were some male actors prior to her. - SchroCat (talk) 16:11, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've used actor (or another phrasing) to replace "actress" where I thought I could. Happy to revisit if required. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:55, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * "She trained for the stage": Don’t they train for all formats (stage, TV and film)? 'for the stage' could be deleted without a problem
 * Deleted. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * (2017–18) Probably best as (2017–2018) for consistency and per the MOS
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "Simon starred alongside Brenda Fricker in the two-part television series Seekers, written by Lynda La Plante. She" Best to switch the name and pronoun around here as there is a "Simon" mentioned just before the first one and "She" could mean La Plante: "She starred alongside Brenda Fricker in the two-part television series Seekers, written by Lynda La Plante. Simon..."
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Early life
 * "moved to the United Kingdom" shouldn't be linked to Windrush generation per MOS:EASTEREGG
 * Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Blake's 7
 * "sitcom The Cuckoo Waltz and teen drama The Squad": technically, "the sitcom The Cuckoo Waltz and the teen drama The Squad"
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * RSC
 * "forefront of 'colour-blind casting', playing": why the single quote marks? Are any needed at all here?
 * I don't think they are needed. Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "high status ...For the first time": per MOS:ELLIPSIS this needs a space between the dots and First
 * Added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "However, Coveney": Seeing 'however' at the start of a sentence isn't always best practice, and particularly here, I think. You can strike it out without issue.
 * Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "Academic Lynette Goddard": Firstly: "The academic" to avoid a false title; secondly "academic" is a bit woolly here and doesn't confer any background to the individual (if Goddard is a physicist, for example, does her opinion matter any more than anyone else). If possible, some indication of discipline is better "theatre historian" or whatever she is would give them more credence.
 * At the time, Goddard was a Senior Lecturer in a Department of Drama and Theatre, whose research focus was on contemporary black British theatre, according to her brief bio in the book. I've gone for "The drama and theatre academic" but very happy for any proposed improvement. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "Scholar Jyotsna Singh" Ditto
 * Amended to "The literature scholar". BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Other roles
 * "garnered": horribly over-used word on WP and it always jars as it's technically wrong (See the OED for the proper definition); "Her performance earned her a ..." would be so much better
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "Academic Claire Tylee": see above
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:47, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "producer Charles Pattinson pitched, scriptwriter Winsome Pinnock" "the producer ... the scriptwriter" (c.f. false titles above)
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "Their characters discovered that they were both married to the same man, who has now disappeared. They later worked as partners in the detective agency that he had founded" The tenses go a bit awry here ("has now"). I think removing the "now" would smooth it over
 * I took out the "now". BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "in the Anansi Boys": I'm not sure what "the" is doing there
 * Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "the movie Detective Pikachu": film, not movie
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Personal life
 * "married tenor Mark Padmore": the tenor
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I hope these help - SchroCat (talk) 09:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for identifying these improvements, . The false titles point was one I wasn't previously aware of. Hopefully I've addressed every comment except the first, which I'd appreciate a bit of further advice on. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:47, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * One more: I missed the 'colour-blind casting' with single inverted commas in the lead – you can probably drop these too. - SchroCat (talk) 16:11, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks again, . Let me know if anything else is needed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:55, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Support. I’m happy to support this. It satisfies the FA criteria and covers all the ground I would expect it to. - SchroCat (talk) 06:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 17:52, 11 July 2023 (UTC)