Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rapping/archive2

Rapping
This article covers the topic completely. It is well written, accurate, sourced, and readable! Chubdub 21:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC) '''
 * Archive at Featured article candidates/Rapping/archive1
 * Support--Urthogie 10:31, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Neutral. Looks like a good start, but some sections, including the lead, could be expanded. RyanG e rbil10 16:28, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose The stubby summary sections and the lead could be expanded, as said above. However, my largest objection is that there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of criticism of rap. I personally have no''' problem with the music, but there is a massive group of people who dislike it or find it morally reprehensible, and not even mentioning is missing a big piece of the subject matter. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:07, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi. Rap isn't a music genre, so the criticism would be found at hip hop music.  To criticize rap would be like criticizing guitar, or bass.  However, I will work on expanding the lead.--Urthogie 18:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Incorrect. Rap is often included in hip-hop, but all rap is not hip-hop. I agree with the comments below, and I stand by my statement that this needs a social discussion. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:21, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I think if there is no criticism section under that justification, then shouldnt most of identity be in Hiphop as well? Also, I think having the Vanilla Ice image is inappropriate. Cvene64 23:26, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * A rock guitar is included in rock music, should we have criticism on the guitar page? The reason identity is included in this page and not hip hop is because there isn't a big controversy over white dj's like scott storch or the alchemist-- the controversy is over vanilla ice and eminem, and that controversy is sourced.--Urthogie 13:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Object - For the following reasons:
 * Not comprehensive, as above; it definitely needs a discussion of controversy, including more about the "rap culture", with both sides of the issue presented, and presented neutrally. The "identity" section begins with an assumption that the reader is already familiar with the topic, and as such begins with what amounts to a non-sequitor.  There is surely MUCH more to be said with regards to "identity".  I bet you could find entire sociological disserations on the subject if you looked hard enough.  I mean, just the concept described in the quote you've included, "I hate when white people try to sound black"... that merits discussion.  "Sounding black"?  And there's a whole racial divide thing here to talk about!
 * Good points. I will work on adding a cultural criticism section, and I will try to add more analysis to the identity section.--Urthogie 13:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Lacks "compelling, even brilliant prose", using informal language in many places. The article makes assumptions not backed up by sources; the assumptions probably shouldn't be made in the first place.  Example: a fact often unrecognized outside of hip hop culture is that not all rappers are MCs.  How do we know this is a fact?  You have references for this, but how do THEY know it's a fact?  Do they even use the words?  Can you just turn this into a quote?
 * I'll turn this into a quote. How else could I make the prose more brilliant?--Urthogie 13:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Insufficiently referenced. I've put a few  tags in on some obvious spots, but I haven't gone over the WHOLE article with a fine tooth comb yet, and there may be more references needed than I've tagged.  Of course, when you've made the article more comprehensive, the additions will obviously need to be sourced too.
 * I'll work on referencing them. Perhaps you could help by adding more fact tags or even helping reference things?--Urthogie 13:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Could use more images to go along with the expansions you need to make. Pictures of rap, possibly of crime, since that's another topic that needs to be added.
 * Finding images of rappers (and celebrities in general) is difficult because of fair use restrictions. But finding images of related things shouldn't be very hard.--Urthogie 13:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Lead section will need to be expanded when the article gets longer.
 * People said the lead is stubby. What could I add to make it better? (Aside from adjusting it to incorporate the new section[s] you've suggested)?--Urthogie 13:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * More discussion of specific rappers could be included.
 * In general, it needs more work. Not ready for FA yet. Fieari 19:03, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment There are too many citation neededs. --Osbus 21:28, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, they just got added, so we'll work on citing them.--Urthogie 13:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)