Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Winnipeg/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 16:47, 13 July 2014.

Winnipeg

 * Nominator(s): Nikkimaria (talk) 03:12, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

This article is about the locale fondly known as "Winterpeg", the capital of Manitoba and the Slurpee capital of the world. It is a GA that recently received a brief yet helpful PR, and I believe it to be a concise yet comprehensive account of the city. Any and all comments welcome. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:12, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Comments.
 * "as the least expensive locations to do business": the least, or one of the least?
 * "17 Wing of the Canadian Forces is": There's disagreement on whether it's a good idea to start a sentence with a numeral if the numeral is part of a proper noun. The sentence can be reworded, if you like.
 * "Saskatchewan/Alberta", "tanker/transport", "River Heights/Tuxedo": I'm pretty sure that WP:SLASH doesn't want to see three of these in two consecutive paragraphs. I don't have a strong feeling about it. Ian can help with "tanker/transport"; he writes about those a lot.
 * I copyedited the article per my copyediting disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 22:04, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your edits, Dan. I think I've addressed all of these issues. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:43, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep. - Dank (push to talk) 02:14, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I see this is stalled. Nikki, I'm not usually supporting at FAC these days (unless I've supported an article previously), but I'll make an exception here if you'll run through and fix the problems that have crept in since I copyedited (curly quotes and single quotes jump out at me). - Dank (push to talk) 19:39, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Done? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:24, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. I don't know what this means, but I also don't know the best way to say it: " It has a diversified economy, covering finance, manufacturing, transportation, food and beverage production, industry, culture, government, retail, and tourism." - Dank (push to talk) 12:56, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Tweaked that a bit. Thanks Dan! Nikkimaria (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Drive-by comments I always like seeing the population history table in city articles, and they are found in nearly all of them. Is there any reason it was moved to the sub-category Demographics of Winnipeg for Winnipeg? I sampled randomly other FA cities and they all had the table (in one form or another). Not critical but is it possible to have a higher resolution image for the montage? I assume they are all taken from much higher resolution source images, and the image deserves to be larger. Thanks! Mattximus (talk) 23:38, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Mattximus, I've upped the size on the montage, but lead images are generally not any wider than 300px per MOS. As for the population history, it seemed undue for the necessarily broad overview in this article - fine-grained detail like that is better suited to the more specific sub-articles. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:43, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Oops sorry I was not clear. The size of the montage on the page was fine, I would in fact return it to how it was before. Just the file itself has very low resolution, 444 × 600 pixels is very very small for a lead image. For example, the original source for top image of the legislature alone is 5 times the resolution of the whole montage. Whoever made the montage shrank it almost ridiculously small. I will revert the size change since I was being unclear. Can't convince you of the historic pop table? I won't push the issue since historic pops are a niche interest of mine (and maybe not many others), I can make one more click. Mattximus (talk) 02:13, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry to bring this up again but I just did a survey of Canadian cities that are GA or Featured and found that 100% of them have the historic population table in the article under the demographics section. Would it not be weird that Winnipeg is the only one without a table? For reference see Montreal, Edmonton, London, Ontario, Coquitlam, Lethbridge, Moncton, St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador and Hamilton (although this one uses a graph instead of table). Mattximus (talk) 14:05, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Not particularly, no. I'm not sure what decisions led to it being included on those articles, but I still believe that it is better suited to the more specific Demographics article. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:59, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I've thought about it quite a bit and come to the conclusion that it's an invaluable addition. Giving a sense of history and scope to the city at a glance. I think without this table the article would not be complete, and inconsistant with all the featured articles and good articles listed above (so comparisons are harder to make). weak oppose on this ground. Mattximus (talk) 21:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Extended comments from Curly Turkey moved to talk. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:31, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me—I'm happy to support. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 22:27, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment taking a look now....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:17, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


 *  the area was populated for thousands of years by First Nations. - can we be any more specific? "several thousand"? or something? "thousands" just comes across as a bit nebulous.


 * Fort Gibraltar doesn't get a locator descriptor till its second mention, and Fort Douglas has none at all (it'd be good to a have an idea of where it is in relation to modern-day winnipeg)


 * The last sentence of the 1919 Strike to present just sorta sits there on its lonesome - can it be added to or tacked on somewhere or something?

The rest of the article reads well and does a good job of summarising what could otherwise read very listy. Nice work on that. However, I do feel that the lead reads a little mechanically and could do with a little massaging - just can't think how right this second. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:42, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Cas, I've made some tweaks - see what you think. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:03, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok good - everythnig good, though I have been musing on the lead. The second para has the first two sentences sounding a bit formulaic starting, "The...." - if we can slip one other interesting/notable item that words differently I think that'd be great. Last para of lead a tiny bit listy - if any outstanding fact can be insetrted between last two sentences about any thing in/of the city I think it'd help greatly. I think once done then we're over the line. Alternate ideas on lead welcomed. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Better? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:27, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I added more info to try and make it less mechanical. You can view the new intro on my Wikipedia User page. --Jd.101 (talk) 02:38, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I tried to make the intro better again.--Jd.101 (talk) 01:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Image review
 * File:Winnipeg International Airport arrivals hall.jpg - Fine, assuming that my reading of Commons:FOP that FOP in Canada includes interiors is correct.
 * File:UManitoba Administration Building.jpg - Fine
 * File:Winnipeg Free Press Building.jpg - Fine.
 * File:WpgCityhall.jpg could use an information template.
 * File:Folklorama India Pavilion 2012.JPG - Fine in copyright terms, although I wish we had a better quality image.
 * File:Red River College Campus.jpg - Should be cropped.
 * File:Esplanderiel.jpg - Looks fine.
 * File:Winnipeg Mint.JPG - Copyright wise this is okay. The mint is in shadows though.
 * Not sure about the images by Wpg guy. A couple seem to have been previously published (by the same individual?) here in 2009. File:Lesislaturemb.jpg is there, as is File:Red River College Campus.jpg, File:Manitoba Lesgislature.jpg, File:Richardson Building.jpg, File:Forks Riverwalk.jpg, and File:MTS CENTRE b.jpg. These images are apparently hosted on Flickr, but I haven't been able to find them. File:Downtown Winnipeg and the Exchange District, Manitoba, Canada - 20110530.jpg is certainly his and appears to be correctly licensed. File:The Forks Winnipeg.jpg and File:Osborne Village.jpg do not appear to be in that thread, but they doesn't have the EXIF data and resolution that the exchange district image does, so I don't know if he uploaded here first.
 * File:WinnipegGeneralStrike.jpg - Fine.
 * File:City Hall and Volunteer Monument, Winnipeg, MB, 1887.jpg - Fine
 * File:Canada Manitoba location map 2.svg - Fine
 * File:Flag of Winnipeg (logo version).svg - Acceptable FUR, SVG so resolution is moot.
 * File:Canadian Museum of Human Rights (2012).jpg - Suspicious of the web resolution, but I can't find anything online that predates the upload here
 * File:Flag of Winnipeg.png - Use in article is okay, but should be downsampled (WP:IMAGERES)
 * File:Crest of Winnipeg.png - Reasonably acceptable.
 * File:Winnipeg panorama skyline third version.jpg - Suspicious of the web resolution, but I can't find anything online that predates the upload here
 * ---Thats my own photo. The resolution is like that because I basically cropped it on Microsoft paint. --Jd.101 (talk) 05:33, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. That explains all of my concerns — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:50, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Winnipeg skyline.jpg - Suspicious of the web resolution, but I can't find anything online that predates the upload here
 * File:Assiniboine Park Pavilion 01214.JPG - Suspicious of the web resolution, but I can't find anything online that predates the upload here. Considering the age of this one, I think the resolution is fairly reasonable. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:01, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey Crisco, thanks for reviewing. I've swapped in a different Folklorama image and shrunk the flag. I believe that the two Wpg guys are one and the same. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:37, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, and I don't see any contradictory evidence. Do you want me to handle the crop of the Red River campus image? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that'd be great if you don't mind. Cheers. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. Everything looks good. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:04, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Support You've done very great work here. I'm happy with you! =D }I Mr* &#124; (60nna) I{ 14:29, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Support Comments from Hamiltonstone
 * Nice article, and a lot of work. Wow, I never knew that about Winnie-the-Pooh!
 * "In 1805, First Nations peoples were observed engaging in farming activity along the Red River. The practice quickly caught on..." Something odd here. If First Nations peoples were already observed farming, then among whom did it then "catch on"? White settlers? Other First Nations?
 * The article mentions archaeological etc evidence. Is there any dating evidence?
 * Minimum 6000 years ago, but I've seen estimates up to 12,000, which is why I was rather general with the description. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you add something like "The area was settled at least 6000 years BP[cite], though some studies suggest it was inhabited as much as 12,000 years BP [cite]"?
 * Done. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Fantastic. hamiltonstone (talk) 02:45, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "In 1953, Manitoba was hit with the worst outbreak of polio in Canada. There were 2,357 cases and 80 deaths" - to the extent that this isn't about Winnipeg, perhaps it should be omitted?
 * There is some unnecessary repetition of info about floods between the history and the geography sections.
 * "named after the area's original grain exchange from 1880 to 1913" I think this means "named after the area's original grain exchange, which operated from 1880 to 1913"?
 * Is it correct Canadian English to refer to "Aboriginals" (rather than to either "Aboriginal people" or "Aborigines")?
 * Both "Aboriginals" and "Aboriginal people" are correct, although since the latter is more broadly used I've switched to that; "Aborigines" is AFAIK exclusively used in Canada to refer to the Australian group. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I feel the Economy section is not sufficiently substantial. The culture section tells me about an almost numbing number of institutions. Yet under the economy, there are no figures on unemployment rates, relative wealth, no numbers on the size of any of the economic sectors, no data on levels of income equality / inequality. I'm particularly struck by this because later I learn the city is Canada's murder capital - and that usually means significant levels of economic stagnation and/or inequality. Is there really no more information in this area?
 * Surprisingly enough, the data doesn't support that conclusion - unemployment rates and income inequality are both lower than the national average. I've added some statistics, though unfortunately many key details are available only at the provincial level. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the improvements. The last sentence - "As of May 2014, the Consumer Price Index was 125.8" will need some explanation. In Australia, CPI is usually referred to in terms of rates of change ("the CPI rose 2.7 percent"). I don't know the meaning of the straight figure (125.8). Is that a comparitor to...what? hamiltonstone (talk) 01:56, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, it can be used to compare geographical locations or historical periods directly. I am certainly no economist, though, so I might be wrong. Is it worth including or should I take it back out? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm, i get it. I think only keep it if the reader can be given some context, eg "...was 125.8, reflecting higher/lower consumer costs compared to Canada as a whole with an index of Y".hamiltonstone (talk) 02:45, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Better? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:08, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep! hamiltonstone (talk) 12:19, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "Winnipeg was named the Cultural Capital of Canada in 2010" - this looks dodgy - i clicked the link for the source, andthe impression i got was that this was a marketing action, whereby the city's art council gave itself that name. If so, then delete altogether. If not, can we clarify who bestowed this illustrious title?
 * Canadian Heritage, a department of the Government of Canada. The program has since been discontinued. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Otherwise excellent. hamiltonstone (talk) 13:12, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "The city has developed many of distinct dishes and cooking styles" - stray "of"?
 * "a vaudeville house" - any potential target to link this to?
 * Thanks for your comments. Except as indicated, everything should now be addressed. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Comment Information on race, ethnicity, and demographic trends seems to be largely missing from the text of the demographics section. Many people will be looking for such information, so I feel it is important to provide it here. --Philpill691 (talk) 01:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Philpill, there is information on these things included - did you have something in particular that you felt was missing? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I feel both of the following would be beneficial:
 * A description of recent demographic trends, especially having to do with the racial makeup of the population changing in recent years (white proportion decreasing, with visible minorities and Aboriginals increasing).
 * The current percentages of the various racial groups (currently there is only the ranking among cities for proportion of visible minorities; I feel specific percentages of the racial groups would be much more informative).
 * I'm sure there's a way to work these in neatly. --Philpill691 (talk) 04:58, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Philpill, there is already a table indicating the current percentages of residents by ethnic origin. I've added some data on demographic trends. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:08, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes there is data on ethnic origins, but not on racial makeup. Also, it still isn't emphasized that white people are decreasing as a percentage of the population, while other groups are increasing (though you have noted that Aboriginals are increasing numerically, it still isn't clear that both they and visible minorities are growing as a percentage of the population). This is a notable demographic trend which is important to mention in the article. BTW there is a cite error in this section. --Philpill691 (talk) 16:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Better? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:29, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you. --Philpill691 (talk) 01:19, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Support. Great article, well-written and comprehensive. I've made one minor change, but other than that I could find nothing to bring up here. Good luck! --Coemgenus (talk) 12:49, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Coemgenus! Nikkimaria (talk) 03:15, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.