Wikipedia:Featured article review/Serial Experiments Lain/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was removed by YellowAssessmentMonkey 01:00, 25 January 2010.

Review commentary

 * Notified: $yD!, WikiProject Anime and manga

I am nominating this featured article for review because there are some issues need to be resolved before this article meets the current FA status which I will list below.


 * All the episode links are now redirected to List of Serial Experiments Lain media.
 * Done.
 * Delinked the last 3. Extremepro (talk) 03:44, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


 * All the pictures in the article need alternate text.
 * Anime on DVD reference has not been changed to their current Mania ones. (ref 36)
 * The publisher field needs to be filled in for all references.
 * The episode refs (eg. 11 and 12) are possibly not needed as the plot does not need refs? Not really sure about this.Extremepro (talk) 13:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment There are also too many fair use images, and File:Serial Experiments Lain DVD Vol 00.png does not have a rationale for fair use on this page. DrKiernan (talk) 13:22, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've removed two of the non-free images and fixed the FUR for the DVD cover. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 15:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment These all seem like fairly small issues that could be fixed pretty quickly. Not sure a FAR is really needed but will work on some of these. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 14:57, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Plot issues fixed. Delinked the episodes, though the references still need to be fixed to add their missing basic information. My biggest issue with the article is the media all being shoved off to a media list, which goes against current standards for anime/manga articles and seems to have been purely to remove non-FA level content from the article. Having a standalone episode list I could understand, but the single video game and the few art books and soundtracks could and should be covered in the main in prose properly, IMHO. Looking closer, the character section is lacking in references for many elements, which is required as it is not pure plot summary. So striking above. Also looking closer at some references, they are non-RS. Attempting to address them now. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 15:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Breakdown of questionable sources:
 * Movie Gazette (#2, 5, 18) - appears to be a self-published personal site - is Tim Marchant, the site's editor/author a noted expert in films?
 * Anime-revolution (#8) - dead link
 * http://www.cjas.org/~leng/ (#9, 20) - some university student's personal website
 * CorneredAngel (#10) - itself not a reliable source, reprinting a university student's essay with no details on what make it reliable
 * TV Tropes (#15) - already long rejected as being non-RS - user editable
 * Anime Lyrics (#28) - distributions illegal materials; complete violation of WP:COPYRIGHT
 * BeatJapan (#34) - dead link of archive of dead link....
 * Sci Fi Weekly (#35) - dead link since it went to SyFy and they seemed to have dumped most old content
 * DVD Net Review (#39) - the author Tony Lai is not listed as one of the site's staff and what makes the site reliable?

There are also some episode cites being used to cite interpretations rather than plot, which would fall under WP:OR -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 15:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll try to have a look at the sources in the coming week. What would be the guidelines to include all media in the article? They were removed during FAC because that was the norm back then. --SidiLemine 15:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See Tokyo Mew Mew for a current FA with a media section, and WP:MOS-AM for the general guidelines. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 16:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Collectonian, I'd point out that Leng is not 'some university student'. He earned his doctorate studying anime & otaku, for starters, and has more than a few publications, lectures, panels, etc., and has covered first-hand the industry for something like 2 decades now; his writings report many invaluable events, such as Toshio Okada's residence & talks at MIT, to mention just one. If he is not an expert we can quote, then no American (such as Carl Horn or Susan Napier) is. --Gwern (contribs) 15:59 11 December 2009 (GMT)
 * That is not evidenced by the site itself. What he earned his doctorate in is irrelevant, but the publications what what not are. As I said, they were questionable, and not an outright rejection of all (though most). Struck that one. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 16:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment There is no RS to assert both Japanese & English voice actors casts. While the Anime Jump! interview reference is ok, i don't see why weight was given to Anime Jump! review in the reception section. Thanks. updated --KrebMarkt 21:19, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment. The images (other than the tiny flags) all need alt text; please see WP:ALT for guidance. Eubulides (talk) 07:18, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

FARC commentary

 * Suggested featured article criterion concerns are original research, reliable sources, copyright.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket '')  02:28, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Delist - Unaddressed concerns about sourcing. Cirt (talk) 22:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delist, unformatted citations, non-reliable sources. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 01:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delist the sourcing concerns and formatting remain unaddressed, and other than the spat of activity on the 15/16th, no work has been done since the FAR started. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 01:31, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delist Enough time was given to improve the article and not much have been done. In its current state this article is C class at best. --KrebMarkt 09:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delist as nominator. as 211.30.12.191 (talk) 21:16, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.