Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop/Archive/Sep 2013

=Stale=

Descriptive geometry
Article(s): Descriptive geometry Request:
 * The details on the diagram are what would be especially nice to be able to see clearly. -- &mdash;Hobart (talk) 21:02, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * So can you tell us what those details should be, in detail, so we may recreate them?
 * If you can we might be able to help, but I fear I'm as lost as you seem to be, after trying to discern the details on that image. Most of it I can sort of guess if I squint, but guessing isn't good for accuracy. I come away thinking the equations and such were added more as a conceptual art element and a generalisation than anything else. Maybe that's wrong.
 * I assume you might have some subject knowledge that may help us. Begoon &thinsp; talk  21:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Hobart -- you could contact the original uploader, Hasan Isawi. He's still sporadically active on Wikimedia Commons, and has a Facebook page, a University of Jordan profile page, etc. AnonMoos (talk) 05:07, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I've emailed Mr. Isawi, a slightly higher resolution version was on his site. &mdash;Hobart (talk) 19:16, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

RfC - Visualization of exponential function
Article(s): Euler's formula, Exponential function, and potentially others. Request:
 * This is more of a request for comments at this point, rather than a finished request for a specific illustration. I've been trying to wrap my head around the meaning of Euler's formula, which relates the trigonometric functions to the complex exponential function. After analyzing many diagrams, most of which are in the gallery above (except the ones from here and here), I collected the insights I got into a series of sketches that I've uploaded as the first image in the gallery above. I would like these sketches to be converted into clean, high-quality images (similar in quality to the eigth image in the gallery), but I also would like to hear your thoughts about what are the best ways to visualize these relationships. Would isometric perspectives work well (as is done the animation)? Should slicing planes be drawn intersecting the 3D surface plots? Would an animation be the best approach, or a series of images, or a single image with the various perspectives, as I did in the page with the sketches? And since the complex exponential function is a 4D beast (input in the real and the complex dimensions, and output also in both dimensions), can you think of any way that it could be drawn as a single object? perhaps using 3D+color scale? Or 3D+time? Could using a non-Cartesian projection be more useful? Perhaps polar, or the Riemann sphere (which seems to provide amazing insight in this video)? Would an approach like this one be useful?
 * Looking forward to hear your thoughts! -- Waldir talk 04:16, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):


 * just from my perspective, I recommend an animated GIF or a series of images would be the rout to take. FOX 52 (talk) 04:27, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I think your sketch is pretty good. At the moment, I do not see how 3D+colour or 3D+time can improve noticeably on them. Perhaps have the red lines scan over the surfaces in 3D? My feeling is also that different projections may only confuse the 'reader' ('looker'?), but you should be in a better position to decide on this. A different type of image shows how the mapping deforms a square grid, as the first image at http://www.math.ucla.edu/~mwilliams/complex.html (found in a web search). You could also have an animation, starting with a square grid and ending with its image, for instance via the route: start with square grid $$ x+iy $$, subject the real part to the real exponential map, yielding $$ e^x+iy $$, and then wrap the right half-plane around the origin, yielding $$ e^x e^{iy} = e^{x+iy} $$. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 09:46, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The complex map generator seems like a great tool, nice find :) However, I'm not sure I am able to get an intuitive grasp at the nature of the function by looking at it. I've searched a bit and found some more resources for visualizing exp(z) as a complex map (there are 3 animated ones here), but perhaps using the Riemann sphere would make it more obvious. The program "f(z)" seems to be able to do this, including generating animations. In fact, they talk about manipulating the 4D space in various ways to get useful visualizations, such as the "exponential horn" (a nicer version of which can be found here). I also found this animation depicting the complex exponential on the Riemann sphere, on this page – search it for "The Riemannian Self-Developing Domain", which is where the Riemann sphere stuff starts. That page also mentions that other surfaces may be more useful in some cases, and give the example of a torus (c.f the same function with a sphere). I am not sure whether the illustrations and concepts from that page will actually be useful for providing visual insight in this case. What do you think?
 * Last but not least, I found a page from functions.wolfram.com which actually lists dozens of illustrations (and one animation) for the exponential function. Surely some of these ought to be useful for this discussion, right? --Waldir talk 15:02, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I think a series of images would work very well; I don't think an animation would be good, because while the images are logically connected, they're not visually connected (i.e., one doesn't transform into the next). I think your series of images mostly covers what should be included.  I would suggest one notation change: Use z for a complex variable and x and y for its real and imaginary parts.  I would also suggest that you include a few more graphs, bringing the entire series to:
 * A 2d graph of $$x \mapsto e^x$$.
 * A 2d graph superimposing $$y \mapsto \operatorname{Re} e^{iy}$$ and $$y \mapsto \operatorname{Im} e^{iy}$$.
 * A 2d picture showing a unit circle, with an arc labeled y starting at the real axis and continuing counterclockwise, and with the endpoint being labeled $$e^{iy} = (\cos y, \sin y)$$. Kind of like File:Euler's formula.svg.
 * A 3d graph of $$y \mapsto e^{iy}$$, done in the style of the circularly polarized light figure above (i.e., together with projections of $$e^{iy}$$ onto its real and imaginary parts).
 * A 3d graph of $$z \mapsto \operatorname{Re} e^z$$, with the images of the real and imaginary axes marked so that their shapes are visible (i.e., so that the viewer can relate them to the graphs of $$x \mapsto e^x$$ and $$y \mapsto \operatorname{Re} e^{iy}$$.
 * A 3d graph of $$z \mapsto \operatorname{Im} e^z$$, again with the images of the real and imaginary axes marked.
 * A 3d graph of $$z \mapsto |e^z|$$, again with the images of the real and imaginary axes marked. (The image of the real axis will look the same, but the image of the imaginary axis will be a straight line.  In fact this will be a picture of $$z \mapsto e^x$$.)
 * A 3d plot of $$x \mapsto e^z$$; that is, it is $$z \mapsto e^z$$ with the y coordinate of the domain squashed. Equivalently, each x coordinate is sent to a circle of radius $$e^x$$.
 * That's a lot of pictures, of course, and it might take a long time to make them all. But I think that readers would find them useful, so if someone has the skills to both make them and make them look good, then I think the encyclopedia would benefit.  Ozob (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * By the way, Waldir, Euler's formula is essentially a definition. Since exp(it) always has norm 1, it traces out the unit circle; so its x and y coordinates must be what we think of as the cosine and sine of an angle of t radians.  Therefore exp(it) = cos t + i sin t.  Whether or not this formula is obvious depends on what your definitions of exp, cosine, and sine are, but regardless, it has to be true on geometrical grounds.  Ozob (talk) 14:57, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments. I took the liberty format your list as a numbered one so I can address the entries individually. If I understand you correctly, #1 would be something like this, #2 like this, #3 like this, #4 like this, #5 like this, #6 like this, #7 like this and #8 like this, right? (But of course, in the same style, and with the modifications you mention) --Waldir talk 15:37, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * My idea for a movie:
 * Start: shows a cosine function (actually an orthographic view from the top of the spiral of $$e^{X_I}$$).
 * Camera pans around until its looking from the side of the spiral, showing the spiral's shape, and ending up with a sine function.
 * Camera pans to an isometric view, and the surface of the real-valued function $$e^{X_C}$$ fades in, showing the spiral in relationship to the surface
 * Spiral flattens to show the projection onto the real surface (curve is in contact with the surface)
 * Real-value exponential function is drawn onto the surface as a curve starting from zero and growing in the negative and positive directions at once.
 * Surface fades away, camera pans to the view at the bottom of the pen sketch
 * A few circles at $$Ae^{i\psi}$$ are drawn in, one by one, for different values of A.
 * The trumpet-shaped surface fades in.
 * The question is, what tool would do this best? Blender3D? Mathematica? R? D3.js? --Slashme (talk) 08:19, 1 September 2013 (UTC)


 * That's a great idea! I can see most of it playing in my head as you describe it, but I have few issues: first, I am not sure step #3 would work well, because the spiral has both a real and an imaginary component, and the real-valued surface, well, only contains the real part of the function. What can be seen in that surface is the cosine and the regular exponential curve, as the sketch drawing shows. Trying to include the spiral in that diagram would break the definition of the three axes, which is: one for the real part of the argument, one for the imaginary part of the argument, and the vertical component for the real part of the function. There's no room for the spiral's imaginary component short of making this a 4D plot. It might be possible with some trickery, but I'm not sure that would make it clear.
 * Another issue is in steps #6 to #8, and it's kind of the same problem: for the trumpet-shaped surface, the axes would have to change: this time we have two dimensions (real and imaginary) of the output, and one of the input (real), and by panning the camera in a continuous motion we'd be reinforcing that the meaning of the axes say the same, while actually the frame of reference would change. That may not be intuitive, or worse, it might induce incorrect intuitions.
 * Perhaps if we faded the surface away *and* the axis being replaced ($$X_I$$ in the drawing), then drew the new axis (essentially the same thing but with a new label, "Im{$$e^{X_C}$$}" – or "Im{$$z$$}" as Ozob suggested above), the transition would be clearer.
 * Finally, I would add in the end a transition between the trumpet and the spiral, using the same axis-replacement technique: fade out simultaneously the exponential curve, the trumpet surface (and circles if they're still present, but they should have faded out by now), and the "$$X_R$$" axis, leaving only a circle at zero with radius one; and this time, instead of fading in the new axis ("$$X_I$$", or $$y$$, per Ozob) all at once, it could expand from the center, making the circle spread out, like a spring, into the spiral. Then it could even loop back to the beginning!
 * For now I'm mostly focusing on my concerns regarding your proposal, but I do think it has a lot of potential, so we probably should polish it, iron it out and move forward with it. Let me know what you think. --Waldir talk 12:45, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ps - I'm pretty sure that if this can be done with D3.js, it should. That would make it possible to have an interactive version (hosted elsewhere, I suppose) where people could, for instance, advance the animation at their own pace.
 * Some good points here, Waldir. I guess we'll need some scene changes: can't do it all in one take and remain mathematically honest.  I've been looking at the R rgl package, and I think it would be able to do it relatively well, but I've also been meaning to learn D3.js, and you're right: it has more interactivity options. Let me see how long it takes to get some kind of visualisation of any part of this running on D3.js, and then I'll put up a repository for us to start hacking. --Slashme (talk) 18:21, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Replying to myself here: I just did some reading, and D3.js is not great for drawing functions, so I'm first going to look at rgl. --Slashme (talk) 19:10, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've started working on this, and so I've created a github repository to store my work. Anyone who wants to contribute, help, etc, is welcome.  I'm a bit of a noob on github, so if I'm doing anything wrong, or less efficiently than I should, please advise!  At the moment, all I've done is to figure out how to generate the basic surface: still need to add axes, set the scene properly, add lines and stuff, but it all looks quite feasible. --Slashme (talk) 21:30, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * How about MathBox? To see its potential, see the introduction post (there's even a bit about visualizing the complex exponential — visualization included) and this presentation made using it. --Waldir talk 17:27, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Here's a first test using MapBox. Seems to be a quite fast way to make nice plots and animations! --Waldir talk 03:25, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That looks really cool! --Slashme (talk) 18:54, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, any chance you could upload a screenshot of what you see? I'm getting quite some variation in results using different computers. In some, the surface doesn't appear, in others it's the curves, and in most the surface shading is a little off. --Waldir talk 17:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

=Resolved=

Philippine President Seal
Article(s): Seal of the President of the Philippines, President of the Philippines Request:
 * Convert the image into svg Hariboneagle927 (talk) 14:40, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):

✅: That should do it — Preceding unsigned comment added by FOX 52 (talk • contribs) 03:53, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Remove or lighten dark background
Article(s): South African Special Forces Request:
 * Please make the current black background transparent or white (or any suitable light contrasting colour per your judgement). The current maroon on black doesn't have sufficient contrast. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:43, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * Not the best image in the world, but I cut away the background and smoothed the edges a bit and saved as png. I also dropped a grey, "infobox" matching (249/249/249 RGB), background in the jpeg, because sometimes png files don't seem to thumbnail quite as well - losing a bit of detail. Begoon &thinsp; talk  11:56, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:57, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Some Philippine coa
Article(s): Coat of arms of the Philippines Request:
 * Convert these images into svg. All of these images are very similar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hariboneagle927 (talk • contribs) 16:27, 30 August 2013‎ (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):


 * One down File:Coat of Arms Philippine Islands (1905–1936).svg 2 to go, FOX 52 (talk) 07:09, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ ok there you go. FOX 52 (talk) 00:42, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Seal of Arunachal Pradesh
Article(s): Arunachal Pradesh Request:
 * Convert this file to svg ... -- Perumalism   Chat  20:47, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):


 * ✅ See if this works FOX 52 (talk) 04:36, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Beautiful - great work. You just missed a couple of diagonal blue borders on the "ribbon", but it's perfect. Begoon &thinsp; talk  06:34, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I just noticed that (fixed and thank you) FOX 52 (talk) 15:54, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I just noticed that (fixed and thank you) FOX 52 (talk) 15:54, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Seal of Nagaland
Article(s): Uttarakhand Article(s): Nagaland Request:
 * Please convert these files to SVG ... -- Perumalism   Chat  19:50, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * I've uploaded a vector for Uttarakhand but noticed their website has it with colors - is this something you'd want? FOX 52 (talk) 22:02, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * add colours to the image Perumalism   Chat  22:22, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * OK color has been applied FOX 52 (talk) 00:34, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Absolutely a big help thank you FOX 52 (talk) 18:42, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ - And there's one for Nagaland FOX 52 (talk) 06:37, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ - And there's one for Nagaland FOX 52 (talk) 06:37, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Some graphics related to nuclear shells
Article(s): Flerovium Request:
 * Please vectorize both pics. -- Double sharp (talk) 13:59, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * Begoon &thinsp; talk 15:37, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * First one done - File:IBA nuclear shells.svg - would you please check it, there's bound to be a typo ...  Begoon &thinsp; talk  00:11, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks all right. Come to think of it, we should probably follow standard WP practice and change the subscripts to proton number (they are currently neutron number!). From the centre (Ni) out, the subscripts should then be 28, 33, 38, 44, 46, 48, 50, 58, 66, 73, 76, 79, 82, 91, 102, 111, 114, 119, 122. The symbol for the third-last item on the spiral, currently 114, should be updated to Fl. Double sharp (talk) 03:15, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok - I'll do that in a tick. Here's File:Next proton shell.svg in the meantime. Begoon &thinsp; talk  03:23, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ - updated - just give it a quick check again, please. Thanks. Begoon &thinsp; talk  03:41, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks great! Thanks! Double sharp (talk) 04:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Sistine Chapel Ceiling diagram/plan
Article(s): Gallery of Sistine Chapel ceiling Request:
 * Please convert this vector image into an SVG file, preserving the text. -- Hazhk Talk to me 12:49, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * So I'm wondering... Provided it can be done legibly and clearly, might it be worth considering overlaying this onto a "knocked back" (faint, ghosted) image of the art itself, like the one used already in the article - File:CAPPELLA SISTINA.jpg, plus extant images for the "Ancestors" window "arcs" which don't appear in that, I think..? With white-out text and translucent coloured panels it might just work... I guess if it's done to scale in proportion with that we could maybe look at it both ways pretty easily... Begoon &thinsp; talk  13:31, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll take this either way - I'll work on the diagram first to that scale, then at least we'll have that even if my other idea doesn't pan out properly - no work wasted that way. I'll start tomorrow, give me a couple of days to fit it in. Begoon &thinsp; talk  13:50, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The "knocked back" image sounds like a great idea. Doing both versions (basic plan + overlay) would be preferable. thanks! -- Hazhk Talk to me 13:59, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Well it works for me as a plan of work, the basic 'plan' will be a layer which can be separated. As I say, give me a couple of days - it's worth taking a little longer to try to do something "nice" for this one, I think. Cheers. Begoon &thinsp; talk  14:04, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Update: Just a note that I am working on this - because I'm drawing it to scale to match the bitmap image it's taking a while. I'll upload the basic line diagram with text first for you when I get to that point, probably tomorrow. The overlaid version I think will be good from the experiments I've done - that version will follow. Begoon &thinsp; talk  04:58, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Take as long as you need! Thanks. -- Hazhk Talk to me 15:40, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, here's the svg diagram: File:Sistine Chapel ceiling diagram.svg. It's to scale, to match the photograph bitmap. The lettering is 85% black in that, because just black felt a bit "harsh" - but you can revert to the penultimate version if you want the type "blacker". I toyed with the idea of centering the type in each of the descriptions across the middle section, but got one of those "can't decide" moments and left it all left-justified. It can be changed.
 * I also uploaded a composite overlaid png as an idea of what I'm doing: File:Sistine Chapel ceiling diagram overlay composite.png. That's not the final quality, and it's not finished, because I still have to add the "Ancestors" bitmaps behind the blue arches, relocate the "arches" outside the main rectangle, and tweak a few other things, including trying to make the lettering a bit more legible at smaller sizes without covering all the artwork - but it can give you a look at what I'm doing with it.
 * For some reason, Commons is screwing up the thumbnails on that one - but you can see it full size at: User:Begoon/sandbox/Sistine Chapel composite - use your browser to zoom on that until the Commons thumbnailing settles down. Cheers. Begoon &thinsp; talk  12:55, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks good so far. I agree that black looked too harsh on the first image; the background colours are very pale and the 'washed out' text looks better. The second file is exactly as I imagined when you described it. Once the additional backdrops are added it should be ready to use! Thanks again. -- Hazhk Talk to me 14:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Great. Well, the plain diagram is an improvement in the article for now, I think. I'll take some time to see how I can improve the overlay version while I finish it. I think somewhat bigger type is going to be necessary, without obscuring too much of the masterpiece, and I may even (ever so judiciously) lose a few words from a couple of the more wordy descriptions, but we'll see how it goes. Begoon &thinsp; talk  16:07, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I just noticed this - surely it should be "God creates the sun and plan e ts? I mean, sure, He created plants, and everyone loves flowers, but... (I changed it now) Begoon &thinsp; talk  16:20, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, comments welcome on the latest version of File:Sistine Chapel ceiling diagram overlay composite.png (again, use User:Begoon/sandbox/Sistine Chapel composite and "browser zoom" if Commons thumbnailing is lagging).
 * Major caveat is that, because all of the "Ancestors arches" images available at Commons had differing cropped areas available, I have had to scale them to differing sizes as backdrops. Particularly noticeable on "Aminabad", but applies to most of them. If we can find available consistently sized images I could recrop and rescale them - but perhaps it's not the end of the world, as it is a "schematic" and they are behind the tinted panels, so they're indicative rather than accurate. Shame, though, because the central part is to scale.
 * Anyway, all comments welcome - if you think "I wish it "x..."" then please ask, as whatever "x" is may be possible, and if not, I can easily say so . Cheers. Begoon &thinsp; talk  12:45, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the diagram looks really good. I also prefer the text aligned to the centre. Good spot with the "sun and plants" :)! I can't think of any improvements that could be made right now... The arches look fine. thanks very much - it was worth the wait! Hazhk Talk to me 15:31, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it took a while... Been busy in real life too. I centered the type on the "plain" svg too, now.
 * Just a suggestion - in the "gallery" article, the "main" image is 900px, and this one might benefit from a little additional width just for some legibility - I took the liberty of increasing it to match, but feel very free to revert me if that's too much. Begoon &thinsp; talk  16:05, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

ABF logo
Article(s): Arbetarnas bildningsförbund Request:
 * Could somebody please crop this svg file tight around the logo that is currently in the upper right corner? Thank you.  --  P. S. Burton  (talk)  22:32, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * ✅ - May take a couple of hours for the server to reset the new image, but should be good to go. FOX 52 (talk) 22:52, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

At http://www.abf.se/ the logo seems to be exclusively used in the bottom half of a rectangle, which appears to me to be a part of the design. Usually in the web pages it's a red logo on a white rectangle, but there's also an example where it's a white logo on a red rectangle. This page: http://www.abf.se/Press-Nyheter/logotyper/ uses the (google translated) phrase "with a distinctive vertical bar." That page also says: "The logo may not be manipulated or cropped.", and "Contact ABF if you have any questions regarding usage." Are we confident that it is a faithful representation to omit the background bar, or would it not be preferable to use one of the uncropped versions?

This is confused further by the fact that the eps files downloadable do contain versions with it in the top half of the rectangle, and just the oval, but I wonder if the oval is actually intended to be used, cropped, alone, or is just provided for designers' convenience, having read the site? Perhaps we should do what they say, and ask - but I'd feel safer with the bar included, either red or white, in the meantime. Comments welcome. Begoon &thinsp; talk 04:52, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that's technically not necessary since we want just the basic text, and shape. Best to avoid Threshold of originality and keep it in the free column. There usage rule continues to say"on all printed material" I don't even know if that would apply here. FOX 52 (talk) 13:53, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Why do "we want" that, and who is "we"? There's no threshold of originality problem with a coloured rectangle that I'm aware of. As far as I'm concerned we should represent a company logo (or any other copyrighted image) as faithfully as we can. Have you read this: Graphics Lab/Resources/Illustration Advice, in particular
 * The vector versions of non-free images like company logos and other items need careful handling. Graphists at the lab cannot always convert a raster file (JPEG, GIF or PNG) to vector (SVG) because a manual re-draw of the logo is likely to result in an inaccurate version of the logo and may look like a cheap imitation! Thus, searching for an official version of the vector image is very important.?
 * Just because copyright laws arguably allow us to create unfaithful versions does not mean we should do so, just because we want to. And I'm entirely unclear on why we would want to, especially when it has no effect whatsoever on whether we treat it as copyright exempt under TOO or not. Companies and organisations carefully create and design their logos - they don't do that so that we can misrepresent them without a care. That's not fair to the company or organisation, even if we can argue it is legal. And it's unnecessary.
 * You are a good, accurate graphist. I would have thought it would be important to you that we represent a design in exactly the way the designer and owner intended? Begoon &thinsp; talk  14:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I uploaded 4 versions which are just conversions to svg from the zip of eps files downloadable from the website - see above. You should be able to use any one of those as a faithful logo - if it's not in an infobox then the red background ones show the vertical bar better obviously. (or, of course, File:ABF logo w t.svg on a white background will "cheat" and seem to be just the oval and letters - but that's not what I'd do )
 * I'd probably use File:ABF logo r t.svg (ABF logo r t.svg) in the article for visual choice, I guess. Just call me a fussy old pedant who likes to respect designers. Begoon &thinsp; talk  12:03, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Barnstars for Wiki Loves Monuments helpers from the UK
Article(s): For use in Userspace on en.WP and on Commons. Request:
 * Note: this is a re-posting of a request originally made on the Commons Graphics Lab two weeks ago (where there has been no graphist response).


 * Several volunteers have given significant amounts of to help prepare for the UK's first contribution to the Wiki Loves Monuments competition, and we would like to be able to award some barnstars. I could probably make my own by plonking the WLM logo on top of a standard barnstar, but I wondered if a graphist might be able to do something more professional :) The barnstars would in any event need to look a bit different from the logo above, which is used to indicate one of the winning images in the competition.  If it's difficult to incorporate the WLM logo into something new, perhaps something with a camera theme would work, as it is a photographic competition. A UK theme is not essential.


 * If possible, I'd like two, please, a standard WLM barnstar and a gold WLM barnstar. Thanks for any help you can give.  --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):

How about something like this? Addresses the photography aspect as suggested. Gold version can either be ... er gold ... or have a ribbon (your choice of colours) so that it is differentiated.  WLMBarnstar.svg  Look forward to your comments, Best ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 19:09, 12 September 2013 (UTC)  File:WLM photo barnstar silver.svg|File:WLM photo barnstar silver.svg File:WLM photo barnstar silver with text.svg|Or with text - not sure I like that, though... File:WLM photo barnstar gold.svg|File:WLM photo barnstar gold.svg File:WLM photo barnstar gold with text.svg|File:WLM photo barnstar gold with text.svg 
 * You inspired me, so I did this quick little thing, of which Davros himself would, I fancy, be proud. Pretty basic. Begoon &thinsp; talk  03:22, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Proud indeed! . And you've just made me realise that I need to alter the license for my upload due to use of the WLM logo (bronze barn star is PD). Best, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 03:53, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you all. Those look absolutely great. Appreciate the help. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:24, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

torn out section of periodic table
I would like a graphic that shows F in context of other atoms neighboring it. The problem is our graphic of the table is so tiny and the screen is not as good as paper when you want to zoom subconsciously (sans click).

What I want: a "torn out" section of the periodic table (rough edges). Make the tear so N, O, F, Ne, and Cl, Br, I are shown (these are really the relevant neighbors). Use our creativity and judgment on the exact graphics. Here is a potential table, but others exist: http://www.bpc.edu/mathscience/chemistry/images/periodic_table_of_elements.jpg

I suggest coloring F by its color code for structure drawings (sort of a yellow, can look it up). Leave the other atoms plain.

Caption will be something like "Fluorine, shown with significant periodic table row and column neighbors."

71.127.131.41 (talk) 00:07, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * - I'll do something for this. Begoon &thinsp; talk  01:24, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Something like File:Fluorine with significant periodic table neighbors.svg any use? Not sure about the "yellow" - I seemed to find several - but if you point me at something using the correct colour, it's easily changed. (and Se/Kr can easily be removed too - that was just because they fitted nicely in the space ) Begoon &thinsp; talk  02:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * looks sharp. Leave atoms as is.  One improvement: color in the F on the lower half chart as well (visual cue).71.127.131.41 (talk) 03:40, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

✅ - can't believe I didn't think to do that in the first place... Begoon &thinsp; talk 04:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * ...and "wide" landscape variant uploaded, as requested: File:Fluorine with significant periodic table neighbors landscape.svg. Begoon &thinsp; talk  11:22, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Seal of Himachal Pradesh
Article(s): Himachal Pradesh Article(s): Jharkhand Request:
 * please convert these files to SVG ... -- Perumalism   Chat  10:08, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * Working on conversion of 'Seal of Himachal' now... Will post for review once completed. Next couple of hours. Tom Webb (talk) 05:59, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure what happened to Tom's completed seal, but a couple of hours past 9 days ago - So here's something that might work. FOX 52 (talk) 23:55, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ That should do it. FOX 52 (talk) 19:27, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

USAUpAllNight.JPG
Article(s): USA Up All Night Request:
 * I could be certain that it is ineligible for copyrights. Regardless, should need a good SVG derivative. More: -- George Ho (talk) 06:12, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s): Would the number 2 example be a candidate for a new SVG version? FOX 52 (talk) 03:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Number 2 looks copyrighted, but is there an existing non-copyrightable version of number 2? There are links that I already gave you, as well as a new one: . --George Ho (talk) 04:19, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I see those, unfortunately I believe the screenshots fall under non-free content. I'll attempt 2 which I consider to be cleanest to recreate – no matter the case all of these choices are going to fall under a non-free tag. FOX 52

(talk) 05:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * See if that will do FOX 52 (talk) 04:25, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Great work, FOX - excellent and faithful reproduction of a tricky bitmap. Sometimes I think it's hard for other users to appreciate the skill and effort that goes into this work unless they make their own effort to understand the process and the hard work involved. I do it for the gratitude, appreciation and self satisfaction at improving things. Well, more the self satisfaction really, which is just as well sometimes... . Begoon &thinsp; talk  18:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * How about making the svg image the text-only logo? --George Ho (talk) 17:43, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok FOX 52 (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ there you go FOX 52 (talk) 21:22, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ there you go FOX 52 (talk) 21:22, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Helena Sverkersdotter of Sweden
Article(s): Helena Sverkersdotter of Sweden Request:
 * remove the black under the shield, don't know whether it's worth png or svgifying... -- Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 09:10, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):


 * Vectorized and black removed. FOX 52 (talk) 21:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice work, thank you!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 07:37, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ No problem FOX 52 (talk) 12:32, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Strange specks in flag
Request:
 * Would anyone happen to be able to remove the artefacts from the file for me?  Fry1989  eh?   21:58, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s): It looks like when you changed the math code to adjusting the arms, you received the hash marks. The file may have some corrupt inputs. I've made two attempts, but is doesn't look like it's working. FOX 52 (talk) 16:06, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah - looks to me like rsvg doesn't like it when it makes the png thumbnails. Inkscape renders it fine, as does Google Chrome. It's fine here too: standard of Sweden.svg viewed as an svg, but the artefacts appear when thumbnailing. You get these weird rsvg artefacts sometimes, and they can be hellish to track down. I have to confess I often just go back to an earlier version without the problem and remake the alterations subsequent to that differently. Some of the true gurus may know - there was a US map that went haywire like this recently - took ages to fix, and I can't remember who cracked it - I'd have to look it up... Begoon &thinsp; talk  16:22, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, something odd is going on with this - some of the thumbnails look like very blurry bitmaps to me right now, rather than vectors. Not sure why. Odd. Try this, for example: standard of Sweden.svg/500px-Royal standard of Sweden.svg.png - or maybe you won't see what I see due to caching... Begoon &thinsp; talk  16:43, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I still standard of Sweden.svg/500px-Royal standard of Sweden.svg.png see the marks, and on my attempts I redrew the flag, cross, and white box that hold the emblem - but no such luck maybe it could be uploaded as a new file. FOX 52 (talk) 18:09, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Tried that already a while ago . File:Sweden Royal flag grand coa 2.svg. No joy. rsvg doesn't like something about that file. I tried "scour" and "plain" in Inkscape. There are validation errors on the file at W3C, but I can't fix it with any "simple" tricks. As an svg it always seems to look fine, but the png thumbnails are screwed. I'm probably missing something stunningly obvious, but it's late here... Oh, and yeah - forgot to say - I also see the artefacts at your link, but on a blurry thumbnail enlarged - that's why I'm blaming rsvg. Begoon &thinsp; talk  18:22, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I really don't understand why this is happening. All I did was take the two SVGs (flag and CoA), and shrank the CoA to fit properly in the box. It worked fine with File:Sweden-Royal-flag-lesser-coa.svg and several other flags I've done this way.  Fry1989  eh?   18:52, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not going to be your "fault" Fry. My money is on it being a strange anomaly with the way rsvg renders png thumbnails sometimes - and you can't predict that. It's relatively rare, but happens, and it's a bit of a random software thing which I've experienced a few times. The svgs seem pretty fine, albeit with a few validation errors - but Inkscape and my browser don't care about them, and neither does wiki, viewed as svg. But the wiki rendering to png thumbnails is screwed, and that's rsvg. If you do it again, with the inevitable slightly different steps that would entail, it might not even recur - though no promises with "spookiness". Unless, as I said, I'm missing something obvious. A true guru may come along any minute and make all my speculation look silly...(or not...) Begoon &thinsp; talk  19:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not going to be your "fault" Fry. My money is on it being a strange anomaly with the way rsvg renders png thumbnails sometimes - and you can't predict that. It's relatively rare, but happens, and it's a bit of a random software thing which I've experienced a few times. The svgs seem pretty fine, albeit with a few validation errors - but Inkscape and my browser don't care about them, and neither does wiki, viewed as svg. But the wiki rendering to png thumbnails is screwed, and that's rsvg. If you do it again, with the inevitable slightly different steps that would entail, it might not even recur - though no promises with "spookiness". Unless, as I said, I'm missing something obvious. A true guru may come along any minute and make all my speculation look silly...(or not...) Begoon &thinsp; talk  19:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok - so fixed it... (or something changed anyway - I now get "some" good thumbnails) He can now explain how he did that, and become today's "guru"... . Begoon &thinsp; talk  19:21, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I still dunno - it's all over the place with caching. I'll go to bed and it will magically fix itself overnight - that often works with wiki. Begoon &thinsp; talk 19:28, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks good on my end. - So what did do?
 * There may be compatibility problems between the Wikipedia / Media rendering engine and Inkscape:
 * Select everything (Ctrl-A) and choose the Path>Object to Path command.
 * Select everything (Ctrl-A) and choose the Path>Stroke to Path command.
 * In the File>Save As.. dialog look for the drop-down menu just above the Save button and save as a Plain SVG.
 * This is what I did Perumalism   Chat  05:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Well you fixed it. I missed the steps of Path - Object to Path, and Path - Stroke to Path, which I should have remembered, as I've had to do it before - so I just tried the plain svg. Well done - it was a rendering rsvg problem, and that was the "simple" fix I failed to find or remember.  Begoon &thinsp; talk  06:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Great job, and thanks for the tip, that's a new one for me. FOX 52 (talk) 15:29, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Hurray! Thanks guys.  Fry1989  eh?   01:29, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Patriotic Front Flag
Article(s): List of Welsh flags Request:
 * Create an SVG file of the Patriotic Front Flag found at http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/g/gb%7Dw_pff.gif — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.134.89.17 (talk • contribs) 17:11, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Please sign your posts, as previously requested. Begoon &thinsp; talk  18:10, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Same question as above. Do you know whether this flag is released under a free license which permits commercial use? If it isn't and has to be uploaded as a fair use image, it can't be used in the article List of Welsh flags per WP:NFLISTS. Si Br4  &#9873; 19:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)


 * That's probably simple enough to be copyright-ineligible (at least under United States law). The three yellow rectangles are presumably a version of the Awen symbol.. AnonMoos (talk) 19:44, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s):
 * In that case,

✅. Si Br4  &#9873; 21:26, 30 September 2013 (UTC)