Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 June 24

= June 24 =

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 * Are there infos about the life of Count Gabriel-Michel de Vassan (1747-1834), the commander of the guards in charge against the Third State on June 23, 1789?
 * For the rebelled Gardes françaises, what was the name of their soldier killed between the mob by the Royal-Allemand on July 12, 1789?
 * Are there infos about the life of Euphémia David (or "Eliana"), the Martinique indovin who had predicted to Josephine de Beauharnais her future as empress? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.58.208.150 (talk) 14:13, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * #1: in December 1826 the Count was allotted a yearly rent worth 234 Francs in compensation of his dispossession by the Revolution ( Etats détaillés..). Regarding qualification of his position on June 23 however, I do not see how nor why the statement you're giving about him could be adequate. Isn't there a confusion regarding the person? --Askedonty (talk) 15:30, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, then can you search for the last two? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.20.108.206 (talk) 12:19, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not very sure, but for the second one I think to remember I've once read in a French book about someone name "Desire Chapuzeaut". Can you use this info for the search? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.202.237 (talk) 10:00, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Have you search for it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.162.239 (talk) 14:47, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Super Mario Bros. games
How come the Fire Flower is the only power-up (among the power-ups that produce a strong form of Super Mario) that doesn't come and go in different Super Mario Bros. games?? All other power-ups of this kind come and go easily. Georgia guy (talk) 17:20, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you try asking the game's creators? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:27, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Shoulder angel/devil origins?
The article about shoulder angels talks about how the idea originated of a person having an angel or devil advising them; but when and how did that first become an angel or devil actually sitting on each shoulder? That part seems to be kind of glossed over. Thanks! EmIsCurious (talk) 20:03, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually sitting, that has to be a satirical story. Thus a preliminary humorous image was necessarily that of the two familiar advisers symetrically installed behind the persona. See perhaps confidante, #2, quotations. An other reason for the set to be certainly quite recent is the obvious anterior image of Robinson Crusoe and Caribbean pirate with parrots for confidents and last, the satirical story has to integrate a sock and buskin paradigm somehow. Since the Middle-Ages angels never put their feet on ground except very recently in movies mostly for undercover assignments.  --Askedonty (talk) 21:30, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, perhaps I should have said "perched" rather than "sitting". It's not the specific posture I'm curious about.  It's the pairing of the two (angel and devil) and the "shoulder" association.
 * What do you mean by the Robinson Crusoe reference?
 * Thanks! EmIsCurious (talk) 22:42, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Robinson Crusoe is sometimes pictured with his parrot on his shoulder, which seems to be a relatively recent stereotype, see that picture for example from the early 20th century. A bad/savior duo of perched angels, solidly established as a popular image would have led to immediate comments regarding the coincidence I think, that doesn't seem to be case. But I might very well be wrong, the idea could have been present in a perhaps less figurative narrative domain and which I'm ignorant about. --Askedonty (talk) 17:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * See shoulder angel. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 01:04, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yes, I read that page.  It discusses the origin of the idea of an advising angel, but not about when / how that might have evolved to the angel/devil pair on either shoulder.  It seems like the sort of thing that would have originated with a specific work of literature or art or whatnot.  Or at least, in what era (between the origin of advising angels almost 2000 years ago and now) that concept might have entered the popular consciousness. EmIsCurious (talk) 01:14, 25 June 2023 (UTC)


 * This forum thread suggests Donald's Better Self a 1938 Donald Duck cartoon as the earliest appearance of the meme, although a quick scan through an online copy of it shows that the angel and devil are shown as full-sized and neither perch on Donald's shoulder. The search contiues... Alansplodge (talk) 19:00, 25 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The 1946 film, Angel on My Shoulder, doesn't even include an angel as far as I can tell, but was concocted to avoid a Satanic title. But perhaps it put the idea into people's heads. Alansplodge (talk) 20:11, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I've found what looks like it might be an early reference from 1792, in verse -- though it's not quite *on* the shoulder, and is just the devil, not the angel:
 * > Think o' the devil — 'tis said, He's at your shoulder
 * from https://www.google.com/books/edition/Midas_a_Burletta_in_Two_Acts/XUx2ixqvZ_AC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=devil+on+his+shoulder&pg=PA21&printsec=frontcover
 * (Aside: how do you format a blockquote here?) EmIsCurious (talk) 20:56, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * -- In using the following syntax: "'text'"
 * And a very pleasant find! I was thinking the set of conditions for the meme emerging as we know it had to be the merge of a marionettes play with the capacities of trick animation, but marionettes wouldn't have been lost from the purpose sight of the author of an opera like the Burletta. --Askedonty (talk) 21:12, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, here we have the text: Midas. The passage 'tis said" suggests merely an invisible though certainly otherwise crimson being. Could only minikin as "My minikin miss,—do you fancy that " be an other form for "manikin" ? Of course I will be reading it so. Demiurgically speaking I'll expect the next materialization of that devil for only a long time after the publication of Oliver Twist, who knows --Askedonty (talk) 22:20, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * See minikin at Wiktionary. --Lambiam 09:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That's it. There's plenty of rescaling and reducing in the following of the dialogue. Regarding the devil, there is this by the Master of the Ingeborg Psalter. It could or could be not related to the plot; according to Psautier d'Ingeburge (fr) the Psalter could be marveled at in Britain in ages ( then those small fries are now figured in grey, not in crimson) --Askedonty (talk) 14:44, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That one is great! EmIsCurious (talk) 15:41, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Glad that it might be helpful. And it was a pleasure too. --Askedonty (talk) 17:58, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * A similar question was asked here a long time ago. Here is that discussion; it may be helpful. Matt Deres (talk) 15:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Spilling salt mentions that the devil lurks behind your left shoulder. Knocking on wood extends this to pepper, and spitting to the left, which is doubtless to do with sinister things. We lack an article on cultural perceptions of bad luck associated with the left hand, although this is mentioned at Bias against left-handed people as present in many Asian countries, and at Noa-name we see the unlucky association with the left is embedded in many European languages and in Ancient Greek. Card Zero  (talk) 08:02, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think a row of warriors (all right-handed) have a weak angle in close combat it's to their left. --Askedonty (talk) 08:22, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * One warrior might have, but a formation should not. See Testudo formation or Battle of Culloden.  A rank of infantry properly trained and formed up protect each other, not just themselves. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:36, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course, but there's a cost nonetheless. Once individually you're engaged to your left, you've lost the best of your engagement initiative to the right. And that's also very visible on horseback musée carnavalet --Askedonty (talk) 08:53, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Bayonet drill (Culloden comparison).svgback isn't a "row of warriors". To return to infantry, each soldier covers an area to his front and right.  That protects the man on his right's left.  See to the right for the example from Culloden.  As an enemy approaches he is effectively reduced to using only one arm to counter the bayonet whereas straight on he can parry the bayonet and strike with the other arm at the defenders left. You have to think of the formation, not the man.  It's one of the reasons that professional, disciplined, troops always have an advantage over untrained militia. It's why professional armys spend so much time and effort building a sense of camaraderie and trust in your fellow soldier. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:16, 1 July 2023 (UTC)