Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds/Archive 29

Birds for identification (8)

 * 80. Toucan in Belize. Snowman (talk) 15:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a Keel-billed Toucan, which is the national bird of Belize. MeegsC | Talk 20:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Ramphastos sulfuratus -Belize Zoo-6a.jpg on commons. Cropped version used at the new image on the article page, partly because of the cage wires in the background of the other photographs. Snowman (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 81. Bird with white head and black body on openphoto.net. Snowman (talk) 22:47, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This looks like it might be a partial albino; without further information (including where the photo was taken), I'm not sure it can be identified. MeegsC | Talk 20:04, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Looked a bit like a West-Pacific race of Island Thrush when I checked earlier but can't access page now. Aviceda  talk  08:45, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * May be, the wiki page on "Island Thrush" says there are 49 subspecies and some have a white head. Snowman (talk) 10:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Black Bulbul (Hypsipetes leucocephalus) of the nominate group, which increasingly is treated as a separate species, Himalayan Black Bulbul (per HBW) or retained as Black Bulbul (per IOC). • Rabo³  • 18:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, despite the file name, this is also a white-headed Hypsipetes leucocephalus. True H. thompsoni have a grey body (like this). • Rabo³  • 18:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I am glad I asked. Uploaded to File:Black Bulbul (Hypsipetes leucocephalus)-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 19:14, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Extras: for the bad named file File:Hypsipetes_thompsoni.jpg a rename underway to Image:Hypsipetes leucocephalus -perching-8.jpg. Links will change colour indicating renaming progress on commons. Snowman (talk) 19:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * New image now in the infobox on the White-headed Bulbul article. Snowman (talk) 19:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 82. Hornbills in zoo. Snowman (talk) 01:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Palawan Hornbill? Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:11, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like the pic was taken in the walk-through aviary at the Eagle Point Resort at Batangas, southern Luzon, in the Philippines. It, according to one Philippines tourism website, contains "numerous rare tropical birds that are indigenous and those from other parts of the Philippines".  So Palawan Hornbill seems very likely. Maias (talk) 02:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely Palawan. • Rabo³  • 18:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Anthracoceros marchei -Eagle Point Resort-8a.jpg on commons. There is also a video, if anyone wants to convert it to the ogg format for commons. Snowman (talk) 20:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 83. Heron to confirm identity. Snowman (talk) 19:18, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it depends: a) All Butoroides on Galápagos are part of a dimorphic Lava Heron. b) All Butoroides on Galápagos are part of a dimorphic Striated Heron. c) There are both Striated and Lava Herons on the Galápagos. At present, most prefer "c", in which case this would be a Striated. • Rabo³  • 18:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * According to a library book on the Galapagos I had last summer, there are both types of heron there. Snowman (talk) 19:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but as stated before, the situation is far less clean-cut than often presented. There is assortative breeding between the dark ("Lava") and pale ("Striated") types, but preliminary genetic work suggests it is a bit more complex. So, at present, no-one knows for certain exactly what's going on there, and a definite answer to this taxonomic situation (as well as other within the Striated/Green complex) is unlikely to be there until the results of additional work has been published. It is worth noting that dimorphism is known from the Striated elsewhere (South America, Australia). • Rabo³  • 19:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Butorides striata -Punta Espinosa -Galapagos Islands-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 20:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 84. Heron to identify. Snowman (talk) 19:18, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Green Heron. MeegsC | Talk 20:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Butorides virescens -Florida-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk)


 * 85. Curasso in Belize Zoo for identification. Snowman (talk) 22:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a female Great Curassow. MeegsC | Talk 22:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Crax rubra (female) -Belize Zoo-4a.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 20:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 86. Shore bird in Belize. Snowman (talk) 23:07, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sanderling? Maias (talk) 00:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, the half collar seems to rule out the other winter plumage American calidrids jimfbleak (talk) 06:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Sanderling -Belize-8a.jpg ib commons. Snowman (talk) 16:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 87. File:Harpia harpyja -Belize Zoo-8-3c.jpg to confirm identification. Is it a juvenile? Snowman (talk) 12:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sub-adult. • Rabo³  • 18:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * File description amended to indicate it as a sub-adult, and linked in wiki article on American Harpy Eagle. Snowman (talk) 20:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 88. File:Ptilonorhynchus violaceus -Bunya Mountains-8.jpg. (Satin Bowerbird) - female or juvenile? Snowman (talk) 13:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Female. • Rabo³  • 18:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * File description confirmed, so no change needed. Image added to wiki article. Snowman (talk) 20:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 89. Rail in Brazil to confirm identification. The wiki has not got many of these, I think. ?male ?subspecies. Snowman (talk) 15:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Indicated identification is correct. No chance for gender and in this case you could only assign subspecies via locality, which at best is questionable. • Rabo³  • 18:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Pardirallus sanguinolentus -Rio Grande do Sul-8.jpg on commons Snowman (talk) 20:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

The 100 FL FA GA challenge - Good Article Push
Well, its the first of December here in New Zealand, and we are still 11 articles short of our target for the challenge that Casliber set for the end of the year. At this point the easiest route is Good Articles, which don't have to be too long. Perhaps people could nominate potential good articles they want to work on and get done by January 1st? That way we can kep an eye on each other's articles and help with the minor touches. Just to kick things off, I think I can get Golden White-eye and swallow to GA status this month. Both are mostly complete and just need additional details and citations and a clean up. Anyone else want to push an article or articles? I think Northern Bald Ibis is already GA quality from my brief glance, but I suspect Jim has FA status in mind. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  18:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty busy on the run in, to Christmas, and I'm not sure that I'll get NBI even to GA by then, but I might give it a go. I'll see if anything else appeals as near GA too. jimfbleak (talk) 06:58, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I will sneak a look at NBI and be as critical as I can, also there is Huia..sorry I was all at sea with Ara (genus), and what about Red-throated Diver - that needed a bit. I also re-borrowed Crows and Ravens of the World as I saw Jackdaw was looking not too bad. If we can all list some obvious pre-GA to-dos on the talk pages, that might help in getting them all over the line. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:55, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I looked at some of these. The referencing for RTD is a nightmare, but article quite good. swallow probably needs more work than the others, but refs OK. Jackdaw, nice article, refs a mess but easily sortable (eg many multiple refs instead of using ref name, I've fixed some already) Please do savage NBI, pretend you're Tony1, but with better social skills (jimfbleak (talk) 08:45, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, Northern Bald Ibis now at GAN jimfbleak (talk) 08:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have had a look at Golden White-eye too, so someone else can come and lay some comments on the talk page there, Huia looked ok last time I looked, and I will look again; good luck with the ibis...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm hoping to do some work after I get off for Christmas break. Rufous-crowned Sparrow isn't that far off from GA, and hopefully I can knock out one or two minor Critically Endangered birds without much info, ala Crested Shelduck. Oh, I've got some information definately for Northern Bald Ibis and maybe (haven't read it yet) for Golden White-eye, so I should be able to add some Tuesdayish. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Finally managed to find you a photo of that species! Sabine's Sunbird  talk  03:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoo! Thank you for finding this. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm finally back from a month-plus in Madagascar, and will try to get RTD done before year-end. I got lots of video of Mad endemics, plus some recordings and a few useable photos.  Most of those will be next year's projects though! MeegsC | Talk 14:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

(outdent/update) anyone feel like cirtically appraising Huia for a pre-GA workout? i thought it looked pretty good...also Cockatoo is shaping up nicely...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll try to give it a looksie again, once I'm done fiddling with some southeast Asian millipedes and do what I said above. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:40, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Golden White-eye is at GAN. Sabine's Sunbird   talk  21:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

....as is Huia. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And it has just been joined by Rufous-crowned Sparrow (finally). So, to summarize, out of the eleven articles needed to get to the hundred benchmark, four are currently at GAN: Northern Bald Ibis, Golden White-eye, Huia, and Rufous-crowned Sparrow. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 08:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * We-ell, to be fair I guess we should review a few other non-bird GAs I suppose...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * European Starling is a good B, and might be improved to GA. Snowman (talk) 14:33, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Gosh yes, I had seen that one many months ago and it had gone off my radar - highly important species environemtally to cover and do well. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:20, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Northern Bald Ibis now through GA, congrats. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:15, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Djibouti Francolin is now a GAN. Happy New Year! Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 06:17, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * What will it take to get List of Amazon parrots to a featured list? Snowman (talk) 12:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A few quick comments: The lead would need to be redone, per the FL requirements (i.e don't have so many short paragraphs, never start list "this is a list of", more references probably required, etc.)  Also, the sub-heading "list of ..." shouldn't be there; it's basically a repeat of the list title.  We'd probably also have to get photos for the remaining species. MeegsC | Talk 15:05, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Huia is now GA, Macaroni Penguin failed but I have some sources...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Parrots for identification (8)

 * 80. Small green parrot for identification. Snowman (talk) 15:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Juvenile (beak color, dark edges of feathers m) Loriculus species . Most likely galgulus because of the breaking blue at the crown. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 19:57, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It does look like a "Blue-crowned Hanging-parrot" juvenile, although I find any "breaking blue at the crown" minimal or absent as viewed on my monitor. I am not sure what else could look like this with a bit of red in tail feathers. Any more opinions or rethinks. Snowman (talk) 15:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 81. File:Trichoglossus haematodus capistratus -Lion Country Safari-6-3c.jpg Rainbow Lorikeet in zoo to confirm identity. Snowman (talk) 11:58, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Same as the individual discussed further up this page. 14:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 82. File:Ara macao -Fort Worth Zoo-8.jpg. Is this a variant with yellow, green and blue in wing feathers. Snowman (talk) 21:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hybrid between macao and chloroptera. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 22:28, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename file under-way to Ara hybrid -Fort Worth Zoo-8.jpg and file description amended. Snowman (talk) 00:35, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll have to disagree here. This looks like a very normal Scarlet Macaw. That's how the wing typically looks, even if some individuals lack the green (and in the northern cyanopterus the tips to the wing-coverts are bluer). • Rabo³  • 14:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Admittedly, after a second look I'm less sure. In the wild, this species has green tips to the wing-coverts, but perhaps this is too much? It's certainly marginal, but based on what I have just read about "Ruby's" they're quite variable in the amount of yellow/green to the wing, too. Based on that I do wonder if they're always separable. Compare e.g. these wild Scarlet's:, , , , , , and . While I've heard of hybrids between these two species in the wild, they're exceptionally rare, so suggesting that all of these are hybrids would be problematic. •  Rabo³  • 14:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. I had seem some ruby macaws, and this one looks a lot like it, but the images that you provided make a strong case that it might be a pure macao also. As it is a zoo animal, I would not dare to make a choice either way, in light of the pictures you provided. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 16:33, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As a quick fix I have cancelled the name change and wrote a cautious image description for commons. Two subspecies are listed here and there is no mention of this in the wiki article. I have found this contradiction confusing for some months, and I brought this image here to try to establish images of the two subspecies, if the two subspecies classification is widely accepted. Any comments on the back of its neck being orange/yellow (at least in the photograph)? The orange on the back of the neck is present on a few I have just seen with green in their wings. I have seen quite a lot of photographs with green in the wings, and I wondered if it was the subspecies or not. I wonder what colours the juveniles are?  I do not think that there are any male female plumage differences. Snowman (talk) 18:12, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently Ruby Macaws have feather lines on the bare skin on the face, which are not present in this one, so I would go with a Scarlet Macaw at the present time provisionally. Snowman (talk) 18:58, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Any more opinions or rethinks? Snowman (talk) 15:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, after comparing some more images, the ruby should have some clear lines of feathers in the face, and this one does not have that. So, I go alonmg with rabo and go for the subspecies of thye macao. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 17:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 83. Lorikeet 1, and 2 for identification. Snowman (talk) 15:19, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Same as the individual discussed further up this page. 14:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Trichoglossus haematodus - lorikeet on a branch.jpg and File:Trichoglossus haematodus - lorikeet on a branch-8a.jpg. Subspecies mentioned in image descriptions. Snowman (talk) 16:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 84. File:Ara hybrid on roller skates -Paphos Bird Park-8.jpg for identification. Snowman (talk) 19:04, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * chloroptera x millitaris/ambiguus -- Kim van der Linde Snowman (talk) 16:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)mvdLinde|at venus]] 19:36, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like a "Catalina Macaw" (which is a hybrid between A. macao and A. ararauna). • Rabo³  • 14:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Identification goes as far as ara hybrid genus so far. Any more opinions or rethinks? Snowman (talk) 15:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, and honestly not really interested to figure out either. Compare all hybrids here: http://animal-world.com/encyclo/birds/macaws/macaws.htm -- Kim van der Linde at venus 17:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ... and it doesn't exactly help that the F2 hybrids of the Catalina can look different than F1 (and they themself are apparently rather variable based on a google search). Anyhow, regardless of the identification of this bird, it involves one of the red macaws (per underpart colour), and the Blue-and-yellow (black throat). I still suspect the red is a Scarlet, as I haven't found a photo of a Green-winged X Blue-and-yellow with a large red front shown by this bird. Other than that, I think I'll have to agree with the last comment by Kim, and further add (POV warning) that I find it most unfortunate than anyone intentionally would produce these hybrids. What a mess. • Rabo³  • 04:26, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 85. File:Calyptorhynchus lathami -flying -Australia Zoo-8a.jpg and File:Calyptorhynchus lathami -flying -Australia Zoo-8.jpg . Black cockatoo to confirm identification as provided by flickr photographer. Snowman (talk) 15:03, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Red-tailed. • Rabo³  • 14:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It is a male or female? Snowman (talk) 16:07, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * New correctly named versions uploaded at File:Calyptorhynchus banksii -flying -Australia Zoo-8a.jpg and File:Calyptorhynchus banksii -flying -Australia Zoo-8.jpg. Bad name versions listed for deletion. Snowman (talk) 17:58, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If adult, female, but I can't say I have much experiance in separate immatures and females of this species. • Rabo³  • 04:26, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 86. Red ara macaw at Singapore Zoo. Yellow and green in wings. Snowman (talk) 17:26, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * yellow very marginal, I would say chloroptera, but rabo might have more details on that. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 17:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Assuming it is pure, definitely Scarlet (Green-winged never shows any yellow to the wing, has more distinct facial lines, and is proportionally larger- and heavier-headed). • Rabo³  • 09:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 87. Arini. ? hybrid ? feral. for identification. Snowman (talk) 22:34, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Red-masked Parakeet. • Rabo³  • 09:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Aratinga erythrogenys -city -San Francisco-8a.jpg with some others from the same flickr photo-stream. Snowman (talk) 13:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 88. Amazon parrot for identification. A less common one to find photographs of. Snowman (talk) 22:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Lilac-crowned Amazon. • Rabo³  • 09:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * uploaded to File:Amazona finschi -pet on shoulder-6a.jpg on commons. I was puzzled by the red on its head being so bright. Snowman (talk) 14:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 89. Aratinga for identification. Which subspecies? or is it a species now? Snowman (talk) 18:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Indicated identification is correct. Nominate. • Rabo³  • 09:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Image:Green_Parakeet_-in_tree_-South_Texas-8.jpg on commons. Species and subspecies details added to commons description and to Green Parakeet article infobox caption. Snowman (talk) 13:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Some more Hawk photos for identification
Here are some more photos of Hawks, again taken in Southwestern Ontario. Identification is needed.

The best ones: Red-tailed Hawk? (another one), Rough legged Hawk? (another one?), no idea, but it was much bigger than the others, and some flying pictures

So if anyone can identify them and would like me to upload some, I would be happy to do it. -- Scorpion 0422  22:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have looked at them all. It is a shame you could not get closer to them or zoomed in a bit more. Nice photographs of birds in the wild; I am sure others will be interested. Snowman (talk) 19:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't dealt with NA raptors for eternities and my Sibley's is currently lend out to a friend, but if you make a post in the Bird Identification section of the forum on birdforum.net there's a good chance most will be identified. • Rabo³  • 10:41, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Eurasian Black Vulture → Cinereous Vulture
I have made a move request for Eurasian Black Vulture to Cinereous Vulture. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 23:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

American Harpy Eagle → Harpy Eagle
While we're at the Accipitridae, a move request of above here. • Rabo³  • 21:52, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Birds for identification (9)
(Birds for identification and Parrots for identification now unified)


 * 90. File:Amazonas san vicente.JPG. Is it the brown morph? Snowman (talk) 01:36, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No changes. Snowman (talk) 13:52, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 91. File:Amazona aestiva -San Francisco Zoo-8a.jpg to confirm identification. Snowman (talk) 18:15, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No changes. Snowman (talk) 13:52, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 92. Amazon parrot for identification. Snowman (talk) 13:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * #90&91 confirmed, though I'll refrain from commenting on morph for the first. #92 is a Yellow-naped. • Rabo³  • 18:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Parrot 92 Uploaded to File:Amazona auropalliata -Leeds Castle -Kent-6a.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 19:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 93. File:Crax globulosa -National Aviary -Pittsburgh-8.jpg - Wattled Curassow to confirm identification. Red parts more prominent here than on other commons images. Snowman (talk) 13:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Adult male. The orange-billed individual from commons is unusually pale (probably light combined with the standard fading that seems to commonly occur in captives), and females have a smaller wattle. The individual on above photo has a less "smooth" wattle than what I remember seeing, but in the few places where they remain they're often quite shy (very popular for hunting, and has therefore disappeared from all but rather well-protected areas and/or very remote regions) and good views are therefore infrequent, so it could be I just never had the chance of noticing the small details of the wattle texture. Regardless, nothing else looks similar, so the ID is certain. • Rabo³  • 09:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Description on commons amended to indicate it is an adult male. Used on article page. Snowman (talk) 10:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 94. Gull in New Zealand. Snowman (talk) 19:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Kelp Gull, the only regularly-occurring gull species in New Zealand. MeegsC | Talk 20:36, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure Red and Black-billed Gulls would disagree with that! Aviceda  talk  21:44, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Kelp Gull (Larus dominicanus) -Hot Water Beach -NZ-8.jpg on commons. Plan to put it in the infobox, because of high resolution and it faces into the page. Snowman (talk) 21:54, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that should have said the only regularly-occurring large species of gull! :P MeegsC | Talk 13:07, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 95. Parrot mostly green with orange head. Snowman (talk) 21:47, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Brown-throated Parakeet of the subspecies xanthogenia. No wonder some think the Brown-throated Parakeet should be split into several species. • Rabo³  • 09:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Aratinga pertinax -Bonaire-8.jpg on commons. New image linked on article page in newly started "subspecies" section listing 14 variants. At the present time, the subspecies of the infobox image is not been identified. I am not sure what amount of genetic variation there is between "subspecies", and I have not seen enough photographs to gauge the morphological variability, but I guess this island variant would not be able to interbreed with other populations elsewhere. I expect it is a bit of a species problem. Snowman (talk) 11:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The genus aratinga will be split in at least three major genera in the coming years, and I expect that after that, I suspect that most subspecies of those species will become species. I have seen the results of a study covering all Arini already, which included about halve the Aratinga species, and it is very obviously paraphyletic. Unfortunately, those results are unpublished for now. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 14:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What species or species groups are excluded and prevent Aratinga being from monophyletic? Snowman (talk) 15:13, 11 January 2009 (UTC) Snowman (talk) 15:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I should have said, polyphyletic, as the thyree major complexes (red-green, pertinax etc and solitaris) are at different places. And then there are a few individual species that are placed at random places. That also explains why studies using a random species have very different results. 20 years ago, most macaws were Ara, now, they are various genera. Same is going to happen with Aratinga. Just a matter of time. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 15:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 96. Quail at zoo for identification. Snowman (talk) 00:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Gambel's Quail Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 00:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Callipepla gambelii -Indianapolis Zoo-8a.jpg on commons. Now the infobox image, mainly because it shows a pair. Snowman (talk) 00:42, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 97. File:Vanellus miles -San Diego Wild Animal Park-8a.jpg . To confirm identification and identify subspecies. Snowman (talk) 00:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that does not look anything like either of the two Australian subspecies. Not sure if there are others outside Oz. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * An African species White-headed Lapwing (Vanellus albiceps) Aviceda  talk  02:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * File re-uploaded to File:Vanellus albiceps -San Diego Wild Animal Park-8a.jpg and old bad name file listed for deletion. Snowman (talk) 11:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have added a croped version and caption to the article. The article does not otherwise mention the claws. Snowman (talk) 12:19, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 98. Cormorant in tree. Snowman (talk) 11:51, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Indian Cormorant unless Shyamal says otherwise jimfbleak (talk) 12:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree ! Date stamp for other photos in Mysore suggests that this was taken in Ranganthittu. Shyamal (talk) 12:19, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Phalacrocorax fuscicollis -Ranganthittu-8.jpg. Snowman (talk) 13:17, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 99. Toucan for identification. Snowman (talk) 23:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Green-billed Toucan. • Rabo³  • 00:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Ramphastos dicolorus -Brazil-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 00:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Category:Amaurospiza
How can this genus category be placed in two different families? Richard001 (talk) 21:42, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Should have checked the article first. Is it common to place taxa in multiple parent taxa if the relationship is uncertain? Richard001 (talk) 21:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There's not much doubt over the family they belong in anymore (even if it is possible some of the "mega-families" ["mega" both in terms of morphology and biochemistry] the shuffling between Emberizidae, Cardinalidae, Thraupidae and Parulidae has resulted in, may mean that some of them will be split up into "new" families eventually), but this info is still faily new and it is unlikely it will start to show in the various books published until a few years into the future (and there are still genera where the exact placements haven't been solved yet, and other species/species groups that currently are placed in a genus where they don't belong). Consequently, most "ordinary" birders familiar with these species are unlikely to know about the major changes (or at least know little more than "changes are there"), and would therefore possibly be a bit at loss over why e.g. this genus wasn't among the Emberizidae category they checked. "Double-parking" them temporarily is a possible solution to that. • Rabo³  • 00:35, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Clearly, I should have checked the cat. first, instead of just assuming you were dealing with the old versus new family issue. In this case, I think there is little else to do until the issues of add. families/shuffling between families are resolved. Further papers on this and related issues in progress, too. • Rabo³  • 00:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Long-billed Corella
The Long-billed Corella article is due to appear on the main page via picture of the day (see Template:POTD/2009-01-15) and could do with some further expansion and tidying before that date. I have done some myself. I tried replacing it myself (but failed) but the distribution map is wrong due to the introductions in a number of states, this is more accurate. Noodle snacks (talk) 01:16, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I've done a bit of copyediting, but as a Brit I have no sources for expansion jimfbleak (talk) 12:33, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I have removed the range map from the infobox, while awaiting an corrected version. Snowman (talk) 13:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I have some refs at home I can add later. The spread of these things is amazing. A bunch were let out about 60 km southwest of the centre of Sydney in the 1970s and they started appearing in my neighbourhood a few years ago and we see more and more. Cute birds but a bit depressing how they spread....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:32, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I've seen some huge flocks down here in Tasmania, my bird book from 10 years ago doesn't list them at all here. I'd expect they will eventually become as widespread as the Galah is here (which was also introduced once upon a time) Noodle snacks (talk) 03:58, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Gallery Cleanup usage
Recently I've noticed that the "Gallery Cleanup" stub has been used on certain pages and while I totally agree with the reasoning behind it's requirement, could we please exercise some restraint in it's use as often these Galleries can be very useful in depicting racial and sexual differences in species. I'm sure that I probably speak for other users who frequently visit these species pages for information and these images can be very useful. It is fully justifiable if there are multiple images showing the same species coloration and 'stance' but behavoural pics such as birds in flight might also be a valuable asset. Hope you can see my reasoning behind this post and look forward to your views! Aviceda  talk  03:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I am for leaving these galleries alone in articles with insufficient text as they are an incentive for expansion but completely for removal from reasonably developed articles where useful pictures can be woven within text and then it seems that excess photos can be justifiably removed and replaced with a link to commons. Shyamal (talk) 03:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Great Shyamal, I recently posted an image of the 'northern' race of Masked Lapwing in the gallery, this is very different from the more widespread southern-race but would be a good inclusion when the article is edited. Thanks for your understanding, I hope more see the wisdom in your thoughts. Aviceda  talk  06:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just had a look at Little Green Bee-eater there is certainly a need for a 'Gallery Cleanup' stub there, although the images are very good, some appear to be duplicated! Aviceda  talk  08:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have added a cleanup tag on the "Little Green Bee-eater" article. Snowman (talk) 12:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

species or subspecies -Macaroni and Royal Penguins
There is no doubt these two are closely related, and I have set up a discussion here at Talk:Macaroni_Penguin..I guess to start thinking over whether to merge the pages, have separate pages as subspecies, or separate pages as species. Can anyone access other lists overnight, as I need to sleep...Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Definition of "Superspecies"
Having used the term "superspecies" in three Accipiter articles, I discovered that it redirects to Cryptic species complex. Is this really the recognized definition for "superspecies", or should we be looking at a separate page for "superspecies"? Thanks—GRM (talk) 17:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The article has a separate definition for "superspecies", and it seems to me they should be split. I don't know whether the definition it has is the (only) accepted one.  I'd have thought a superspecies had to be monophyletic. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 18:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Category of lists
The category system for lists probably needs more sub-categories for groupings of birds. I am wondering what they might be called. Perhaps "Lists of birds by zoological grouping", where zoological grouping could be species, tribe, family, or even subspecies or order. When there are enough in the category this could be subdivided into "Lists of birds by genus", "Lists of birds by family", and so on. The category, "Lists of birds by genus", could probably be started now. Snowman (talk) 18:02, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

monotypic redirects
As some may have notice, someone moved what previously had been placed on monotypic to Monotype (biology) based on the naming conventions. I really don't know if what this person stated is correct, but it resulted in almost 2000 pages linking to the monotypic disambiguation page, of which the vast majority (a fast check suggests something in the order of 99%) refer to the biological version. Is there a fast way of dealing with all these pages suddenly linking to a disambg. page, or is it a matter of slowly changing it whenever we come accross a page where it is used? • Rabo³  • 10:07, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Since the page move created nearly 2000 bad links, was not discussed, and was also not justified (a disambiguation page should have more than two articles linked - see last example in the guidance section), I've made monotypic a redirect to Monotype (biology) (an adjective shouldn't be an article title) and put hatnotes at the start of the two relevant articles. I've deleted the redundant disambiguation page. jimfbleak (talk) 10:51, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My changes create many redirects, but at least they point to the correct page, and can be fixed when necessary, such as for GA/FA. The bot will deal with any double redirects jimfbleak (talk) 11:07, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was considering changing it to a redirect too, but haven't spend any amount of time familiarizing myself with the more general naming conventions on wiki and therefore refrained from doing it. • Rabo³  • 19:29, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just for information, the monotype (disambiguation) page has now been recreated by User:Neelix, with a third item. This causes no problems for the project jimfbleak (talk) 12:10, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The situation was much worse on November 5 when monotypic redirected to monotyping, with no disambiguation. I made the disambiguation page on November 9, and the current situation, monotypic redirecting to Monotype (biology) is the best. Doloco (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

List of Amazon parrots
I've cleaned up the lead and referenced where necessary. I don't agree that we need images of all the species to go to FL (it's not a requirement), and I would remove the unsightly and unnecessary image requests. Any comments? jimfbleak (talk) 16:26, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice improvements, Jim! I'm assuming these are listed in taxonomic order.  If so, we should probably explain that, so some enterprising soul doesn't come along and put them into alphabetical order.  Or should we organize it alphabetically instead?  Also, if we're going to link some countries, we should probably link them all... MeegsC | Talk 17:29, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * They are in the sequence as on BirdLife website, which I assume is taxonomic order. I think that it would be best to have a list in taxonomic order, so that patterns of morphology are clearer. Would any books older than 100 years and out of copyright have an illustration of the Imperial Amazon?  Some discussion also on the article talk page started. Snowman (talk) 18:15, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The listing is more based on tradition than phylogeny. For example, Kawall's is sister to Mealy, Red-tailed is most closely related to Orange-winged, and White-fronted is associated with the Lesser Antillean species. • Rabo³  • 23:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Birds for identification (6)

 * 60. Aracari to confirm identification. Snowman (talk) 14:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Indicated identification is correct, but it is all rights reserved. • Rabo³  • 09:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops, I did not see the wrong licence. Snowman (talk) 10:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 61. Toucan for identification. Snowman (talk) 18:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ramphastos v. vitellinus. • Rabo³  • 08:09, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Ramphastos vitellinus -Lagos Zoo -Portugal-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 14:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 62. Hornbill for identification. Snowman (talk) 21:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * female Aceros cassidix. • Rabo³  • 08:09, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Aceros cassidix (female) San Diego Zoo-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 14:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 63. Toucan in Panama. Snowman (talk) 19:40, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Chestnut-mandibled Toucan. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 17:09, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, and a juvenile. • Rabo³  • 08:09, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Ramphastos swainsonii (juvenile) -Panama-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 14:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 64. Owl in zoo. Snowman (talk) 11:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Spectacled Owl Pulsatrix perspicillata jimfbleak (talk) 12:45, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Was it the wrong licence previously? Snowman (talk) 14:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 65. Hornbill in zoo. Snowman (talk) 17:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Male (facing away) and female (checking out the photographer) Bycanistes brevis. • Rabo³  • 08:09, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Bycanistes brevis (pair) Lagos Zoo -Portugal-8.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 14:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 66. Bird 1 and bird 2 - with large beak at San Diego Zoo. Snowman (talk) 14:16, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Adult Double-toothed Barbet. • Rabo³  • 09:36, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Bird 1 uploaded to File:Lybius bidentatus -San Diego Zoo-8a.jpg. (Bird 2 has the wrong licence for commons, so not uploaded). Snowman (talk) 13:01, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 67. Hornbill for identification. Is this this male of the species of bird 62 above? Both are in same photo-stream. Snowman (talk) 14:37, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. • Rabo³  • 09:36, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Aceros cassidix -San Diego Zoo-8a.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 13:08, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 68. Goldfinch to confirm identification. Snowman (talk) 16:03, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This is indeed a male American Goldfinch. MeegsC | Talk 15:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to commons at File:Carduelis tristis -eating thistle seeds-8.jpg. Snowman (talk) 15:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 69: Trogan in a display in Vienna, Austria for identification. Snowman (talk) 17:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Male Resplendent Quetzal. • Rabo³  • 09:36, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to commons at Image:Pharomachrus_mocinno_-Naturhistorisches_Museum_Wien-8a.jpg. Snowman (talk) 13:44, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Birds for identification (10)

 * 100. Toucan for identification. Snowman (talk) 23:46, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Channel-billed Toucan ssp. ariel (here staying out of the issue of the unnamed pop.). Other photos from the same stream that are worth checking are:
 * Uploaded to File:Ramphastos vitellinus -Parque das Aves-6.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 01:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Black-fronted Piping-guan:
 * Scale-throated Hermit:
 * Red-winged Tinamou: and
 * Red-rumped Cacique (the 2nd and 3d at nest colony):, and
 * • Rabo³  • 00:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Extras uploaded. Snowman (talk) 01:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 101. File:Meleagris ocellata -Guatemala-8a.jpg to confirm identification. Snowman (talk) 00:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, its a Ocellated Turkey alright. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  01:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It is the first one on the wiki that shows its spurs well, so I have linked in the article infobox. Snowman (talk) 01:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 102. File:Crax globulosa -Brazil-8.jpg to confirm identification. Pale red on head. Snowman (talk) 00:27, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, that's a male C. fasciolata. • Rabo³  • 01:27, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I am glad I asked. Re-uploaded at File:Crax fasciolata -Parque das Aves-8.jpg and old bad named file listed for deletion. Linked in Bare-faced Curassow article infobox as an example of the male. Snowman (talk) 01:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 103. side, back, front - Toucans in zoos to confirm identification. Snowman (talk) 15:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 3x Chestnut-mandibled Toucan. • Rabo³  • 23:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * On commons at:
 * Image:Ramphastos_swainsonii_-upper_body_-Buffalo_Zoo_-8a.jpg
 * Image:Ramphastos_swainsonii_-back_-Buffalo_Zoo-8a.jpg (used on article page)
 * Image:Ramphastos_swainsonii_-La_Paz_Waterfalls_Gardens-6a.jpg - Snowman (talk) 10:49, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 104. Eagle for identification. Snowman (talk) 16:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * looks like Northern Caracara to me, but second opinion please since may be Southern Caracara jimfbleak (talk) 17:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Given the location of the photo (the wonderful La Paz Waterfall Garden in Costa Rica, which was wiped off the map in last week's earthquake), I'd agree with Jim. Northern is the species found in Costa Rica. MeegsC | Talk 10:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Caracara -Vara Blanca -Costa Rica -upper body-8a.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 12:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 105. Red macaw for identification. Snowman (talk) 11:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Green-winged Macaw? Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:20, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Green winged indeed. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 03:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 106. File:Dendroica dominica -side -Cuba-8.jpg - A small bird on Cuba to confirm identification. Is it male or female? Snowman (talk) 16:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Confirmed. Going by Sibley, though, I can't tell the sex&mdash;the bird has white background color on the flanks like Sibley's males, but only a short black upper border to the supercilium like his females. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 00:30, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I presume that it is a bird wintering in Cuba, and I wonder if they have a different appearance in summer. Snowman (talk) 17:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sibley and All About Birds don't show any seasonal differences. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 19:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 107. small brown bird on Cuba. Snowman (talk) 23:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll confirm that's a Palm Warbler, but somebody else will have to tell you the subspecies. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 00:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Dendroica palmarum -Cuba-6.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 108. Bird in Brazil . Snowman (talk) 18:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * White-winged or Pale-winged Trumpeter. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 19:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, but would point out that it was taken near Puerto Maldonado (i.e. Peru, not Brazil). • Rabo³  • 23:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Psophia leucopterar -Puerto Maldonado-8.jpg, and used in infobox, as it was slightly better than the previous one. Snowman (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 109. Toucan in Brazil. Snowman (talk) 18:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * White-throated Toucan ssp. tucanus • Rabo³  • 23:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to File:Ramphastos tucanus -Brazil-8a.jpg on commons. Snowman (talk) 11:05, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Topical
As can be expected http://stats.grok.se/en/200901/Bird_strike - Bird strike - Shyamal (talk) 09:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

NHM resources
Wonder if anyone here has contacts (mine seem to be too busy) at the NHM, London who can help add some biographical info to Margaret Bushby Lascelles Cockburn. They apparently published a 2002 diary commemorating her http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11242062M. Shyamal (talk) 09:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

"Brown thrush"
Brown Thrush is listed as a missing article at WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Hot/B3. I guess this is an alternative or archaic name for some species or other of thrush (or maybe even a non-thrush). Anybody care to investigate? SP-KP (talk) 16:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Toxostoma rufum is called that. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 16:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Sounds like we just need a redirect then, would you agree? SP-KP (talk) 16:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * already done. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 16:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I've also added a note to the article text. I've marked it with a { { fact } } - if you've got a source you could add that would be great. SP-KP (talk) 16:35, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Brown Thrush is apparently also used for Brown-headed Thrush. At least it is used in List of Japanese birds: passerines for Turdus chrysolaus. Maias (talk) 03:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Source added, redirect made a dab page. Maias (talk) 03:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Another missing article request
Grass finch this time. Again, presumably we need a redirect to somewhere. SP-KP (talk) 16:53, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 17:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Just clarifying...
Now we have spheniscus at Banded penguin, so I was about to move Eudyptes to Crested penguin, ok (?) Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:41, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been thinking about suggesting that too. Some of the other penguin genuses have common names too. Snowman (talk) 12:32, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, done....which others have common names? Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Aptenodytes are called "great penguins", and Pygoscelis are known as "the brush-tailed penguins". Snowman (talk) 13:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I figured the big ones would have some sort of name like that, I must admit I have heard these less than the other two generic common names thus far. Any third opinion out there? Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:10, 18 January 2009 (UTC)