Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Death/Archive 6

Lists Deaths in Month 1987-1989; rv to redirect
For future reference the discussion on Vg8443's Talk page has been moved here.Mill 1 (talk) 19:48, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Vg8443, I just stumbled upon some of your edits in the "Deaths in ..." lists, where you were deleting many entries (and also linking some for which we meanwhile have entries). While it is great that someone is going through those lists, cleaning up a bit, I don't think that someone should start working in the project by deleting stuff. There is always a delicate decision to be made, and I doubt that someone without a lot of experience should do it. The risk is too high to delete entries for notable people for which we just do not have an article yet. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 08:31, 2 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @Matthiaspaul If you look at the individual edits of Vg8443 you will notice that he/she was trying to match the death entries to the current agreed format (see January 1990 and onwards). Unfortunately Vg8443 stopped this effort; many of the deaths per month articles Vg8443 created the past few days are in the format of the Year-pages. Or they contain multiple formats.
 * Vg8443 just copied the deaths section of the corresponding Year pages and created new month articles from them. In the wrong format, without any new notable entries and without adding a single citation. Vg8443 still has a lot of work to do. I should know; the last time something similar happened (regarding 1995) I volunteered to clean up the mess. Took me months. Right now I assess the quality of the newly created articles so poor that I am of the opinion that it would be best to return them to their initial state of redirects. In its current state these pages offer no additional value. Mill 1 (talk) 20:26, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Many of the targets for subjects are actually not the correct person, Vg has been linking only to straight names, not dabbed articles. I would agree, reverting all to redirects are warranted.-- ☾Loriendrew☽  ☏(ring-ring)  22:45, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Mill and Lorien, I am sure Vg acted in good faith but I tend to agree that reversion might be necessary to maintain the quality without creating too much overhead.
 * Vg, it is now high time for you to join the discussion.
 * --Matthiaspaul (talk)
 * @Matthiaspaul Thank you for your feedback. I spent the evening going over Vg's edits and although I share your opinion that Vg acted in good faith I also found more troubling evidence regarding WP:SAL, WP:CLN and WP:CIR. Copy/paste errors regarding categories and combining different entry formats within an article for instance.
 * To some extend I blame myself for this situation; until July 2021 deaths per YEAR articles existed, for instance Deaths in 1995 and Deaths in 1999. However, this year template is now unknown/unused since I created monthly deaths lists going back to 1990. As a result several editors have since then tried to create new Deaths per Month articles which poses the issues we're discussing now. I suggest re-instating the Deaths per year pages for 1987-1989 and redirecting Vg's new articles to them. As a coincidence (?) regarding the mentioned years the Deaths sections in the corresponding Year pages were deleted following the decision of splitting births and deaths from year articles. My suggestion would also fix the erroneous links in Lists of deaths by year that arose from that cleanup.
 * Excuses for the long text. What say you, Matthias, @Loriendrew and @Surveyor_Mount? Mill 1 (talk) 22:54, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Despite this discussion, which they are not responding to, there have been continued additions of dab targets. They may be trying in good faith, but there seems to be enough non-responsiveness and potential WP:CIR issues at hand. Nuke them, then work on one month at a time.-- ☾Loriendrew☽  ☏(ring-ring)  22:59, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Loriendrew I am on it and will make the necessary changes soon. I will also move this discussion to a more appropriate place for future reference. Mill 1 (talk) 11:07, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Done Mill 1 (talk) 07:14, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:38, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Death of Lashawn Thompson
I just created a draft for the Death of Lashawn Thompson. Thriley (talk) 15:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2023 Mangu violence
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2023 Mangu violence that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 01:15, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Interesting area of discussion
Village Pump Policy area has material of direct relevance to this project and sub project:


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Marie_Sophie_Hingst#Describing_suicide
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#RFC:_Change_wording_in_MOS:SUICIDE_to_better_reflect_the_supermajority_consensus_in_the_RFC_that_added_it

although connected to the Medicine area -


 * Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles&action=edit&section=7


 * Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 164#RFC: "Committed suicide" language


 * Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&oldid=1166865811#how_should_we_change_the_wording?

for page lurkers here, or editors previously in conversation here - worth noting... JarrahTree 12:59, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move of Dīs Pater
There is a proposal at Talk:Dīs Pater to move an article indicated to be of interest to this project, Dīs Pater to Dis Pater. NebY (talk) 17:16, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Death-positive movement and The Order of the Good Death
Per a recent discussion at User talk:Yngvadottir/Archive 12 that led me here: The article Death-positive movement was unilaterally merged (without mention here) into The Order of the Good Death in 2018, which seems a suboptimal place for us to cover it. We very rarely mention movements in articles for organizations rather than the other way around, and it seems a stand-alone article can be written here. I discovered this situation when writing Dark Archives, which links the former frequently and the latter occasionally -- as it stands, they currently direct to the same article. If any watchers of this talk have thoughts on the matter or an interest in reworking the articles, I'd appreciate anything. Vaticidalprophet 01:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 08:49, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

FAR for Voluntary Human Extinction Movement
I have nominated Voluntary Human Extinction Movement for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 03:37, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Zeitoun incident
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Zeitoun incident that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —Alalch E. 19:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

In need of someone to asses my article
Hello, I’m not a member of this project but I am hoping someone from here could assess my article: Malmö school stabbing? Salutations25 (talk) 02:11, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

CfD about politicians' deaths
Hello. There are some discussions about Politicians' deaths that may interest you. Your input is welcome. Regards, -- Thinker78  (talk) 00:41, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Tony Jasinskyj
If you are going to write about Tony check your facts first. He in not at the prison you state - the poems are not is (I am his sister) 92.3.57.99 (talk) 13:25, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I've removed the off-topic WP:OR/WP:SYNTH added to Murder of Marion Crofts by blocked sock User:BarehamOliver, who provided no source linking those pieces in the name of "Tony J" to Jasinskyj. NebY (talk) 14:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Death categorizing
I am thinking that we are overcategorizing people by death. I think we need to take a look and determine if all the articles in the cause of death tree are actually cases where the cause of death is notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:39, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Burial categorizing
I am thinking for most people the place of burial is not defining to the biography. I think unless we can show that it is, we should limit placement of biographical articles into burial categories to cemetery. I do not think that the group of people buried in Michigan, or Montana, or Argentina, or anywhere else is a defining group, I think the only defining groups are people buried in specific cemeteries, with each cemetery basically someone having to show how being buried there is considered a defining case, or a few other cases, such as British monarchs buried abroad, maybe people buried in a battlefield that was later declared a cemetery, and maybe some other specific cases that can be shown to be defining. However I do not think we should bog down biographical articles with a category for what place the person is buried in, if the place is something less specific than a specific cemetery.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:44, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Dabulamanzi kaMpande
Dabulamanzi kaMpande died in 1886. South Africa was not formed until 1910. Another editor us trying to force placement in a South Africa Category because "former countries are nested in current categories". This is a very bad plan. This treats boundaries as natural instead of what they really are, politically determined. It is a bad plan. It only makes sense to limit a deaths in a particular country Category to people who died in the country in question. We should not be retroactively applying countries onto the past. This is a very, very, very bad plan. It will cause way more drama in the long run.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:12, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Pneumonia deaths
Is Pneumonia really a cause of death that is defining enough for people to justify categorizing people by having died this way?John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:02, 15 December 2023 (UTC)


 * JPL your recent queries have come to an almost tomb like echo chamber.

This page's page views/any indications of life (sic) seem to be missing. The points that you have raised (3 above) do require a rigorous conversation, however whether there are any participants of the past who might re-emerge from their cyronic stupor is another matter... JarrahTree 00:57, 16 December 2023 (UTC)


 * single causes of death

There had been, some time ago (sorry haven't got a link straight away) an editor who had been on a mission (not sure from where) to identify some very specific illness related deaths that had caught a number of editors' attention, but who remained relentless in the self appointed task of allocating singular attributions to cause of death.

update - the talk page is in itself an interesting memorial device to the issue -        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:20SS00  JarrahTree 01:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

The project at this point of discussion may have resolved an opinion of those who still watch this page, I am sure a more adept checking person can correct me if I remember incorrectly. The problem was that the category system that had been expanded into minutiae that was not checked (I think). Although some specific aetiologies are commonly accepted as explanations of death, the editor seemed enthusiastic to create categories on the evidence of contents of articles. The issue of trying to be specific about causes of death is that some systems allow for multiple contributory causes, and can in many cases disallow any single item, unlike the rather ubiquitous natural causes, (which I consider as problematic as single disease categories created). It is a problem that I do think a medico/legal practitioner who has speciality in the area would be a very helpful contributor if one exists in the domain of this project. The lack of adequate explanation from anyone with a good knowledge of medical conventions on explaining causes of death to the layman is in effect styming any progress in resolving the issue, unless some instant expert arrives here at some point.
 * burials, cemeteries and so on

There had been, before the creation of this project, a very disorganised sense of death/burial/cemeteries and the issues related. The project was created to try to systematically draw in the vast array of death and dying categories created with no apparent project alignment on their talk pages. Some time after the existence of this project consolidated some aspects of death and burial, out of the blue emerged a project 'cemeteries'. It appeared as well as a user group. I have not checked recently as to their current state, or whether they too have reached rigor mortis, or some similar state or not.

The lack of response to your queries suggests what the late Frank Zappa's phrase they are all out to lunch (or words to that effect) that he sang so many decades ago - might be the case for this project. Holidays, grieving days, and generally out to lunch days, or maybe generally deceased - literally or metaphorically, however the level of irony might be lost on many...  There may well be in the nether world of places other than here that can help you better than a solitary voice from the depths of a dark place in the antipodes, I am not sure...
 * quietness of project


 * raising issues in silent projects

It is possible you are ending up talking to yourself here.

JarrahTree 01:25, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge at Talk:Killing of journalists in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war
There is a proposed merge discussion at Talk:Killing of journalists in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. JM (talk) 23:05, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:The Day the Music Died
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:The Day the Music Died that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:47, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Holit massacre
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Holit massacre that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:32, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Nir Yitzhak massacre
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Nir Yitzhak massacre that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Titling discussion at Talk:Mass killings under communist regimes
Link: Talk:Mass killings under communist regimes. George Ho (talk) 06:47, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2023 Arlington house explosion
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2023 Arlington house explosion that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:25, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Shooting of Danny Hansford
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Shooting of Danny Hansford that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Shooting of Mohamed Bah
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Shooting of Mohamed Bah that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:54, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:List of association football players who died during their careers
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:List of association football players who died during their careers that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 06:34, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Death of Zac Brettler
There was a recent story in the New Yorker on the Death of Zac Brettler. It may be of interest to members of this project. Thriley (talk) 18:16, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Style guidelines?
Is anybody aware of any style guidelines that address the issue of writing about death and human remains? Specifically, I'm writing about an aircraft crash where contemporary newspaper reports of the recovery of victims describe the recovery of "scattered chunks of human flesh" and other fairly graphic descriptions. While the state of the victims is important in describing the difficulty of recovering and identifying the remains of victims, I'm looking for whether discussions have taken place here on the balance between sensationalist descriptions from news reports and encyclopedic coverage of the state of the victims. Especially descriptive terms like "bloody chunks of tissue", "mangled pulp", and so on. Especially in an article that extensively discusses the process of recovery, removal, and identification of the victims of a high-altitude explosion of an aircraft, there's only a limited number of times you can refer to "human remains" before the prose gets excessively repetitive. RecycledPixels (talk) 18:39, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2015 Umpqua Community College shooting
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2015 Umpqua Community College shooting that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:22, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Murder of Hannah Clarke
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Murder of Hannah Clarke that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Al-Rashid humanitarian aid incident
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Al-Rashid humanitarian aid incident that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 00:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Crocus City Hall attack
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Crocus City Hall attack that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Israeli bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Israeli bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:42, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Attack on the Azerbaijani Embassy in Tehran
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Attack on the Azerbaijani Embassy in Tehran that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:46, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Capital punishment
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Capital punishment that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:58, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Capital punishment in New York (state)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Capital punishment in New York (state) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 02:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)