Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Archive 1

Eurovision
Moved from Village pump on Saturday, September 13th, 02003.

Why not just build at The Eurovision Wiki

I am thinking of creating a user guide to help people around the Eurovision articles I am doing/improving. It would help people understand what each section was about, I would probably use Eurovision Song Contest user guide for the page. Do others think this is a good Idea? - fonzy


 * Keep the title short and memorable: Eurovision. Martin 19:22, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * No way. Eurovision has more meanings than just the song contest. They just having been put on wiki yet, as they are rather technical and obsure, but may end up on wiki at some stage. Putting the song contest at Eurovision simply because it is the most widely known term would be as wrong as putting 'president of the US' at 'president', because most people when they hear the word president think of the US president. FearÉIREANN 20:06, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * Put links with explanation in Eurovision Song Contest (as far as they are not there yet) - Patrick 12:27, 6 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * No, make a wikiproject: WikiProject Eurovision. LDan 23:28, 7 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * Oh, I guess you already did.LDan 23:28, 7 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Eurovision <> Eurovision Song Contest
Eurovison is not a synonym for the Eurovision Song Contest. The Eurovision Network does a lot more, like Eurosport, Wetten dass or Spiel ohne Grenzen in the past. Some european TV-stations evolved from Eurovision: Eurosport, Euronews and Arte.--Hhielscher 14:05, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Eurovision Infobox
I think the current infobox on the Eurovision Song Contest 2006 is a good template, and should be replicated on the other Eurovision articles, but I think there should be more categories on it, such as the country and performer are obviously important and I'm not sure if this happens any more, but the composer used to get presented with an award as well. Any other things that should be omitted or added? Blnguyen 04:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Winning country
 * Winning Performer
 * Winning composer


 * I think that the "nul points" section is not really that relevant that it needs to be included in the infobox. If somebody needs that info, he can get it from the regular results table. Anybody disagree? Sergeyy 21:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, it is more of a trivia thing than essential information, so I wouldn't mind if it got scrapped.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! - review me 23:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, first of all ESC is all about trivia things and such. Nul points is one of the most things about the ESC. The absence of nul points is actually as important piece of ESC information as the presence of such occurence.
 * Secondly, the "ESC infobox" is not an infobox per se, they are all lousy default infoboxes. Can somebody make something like the nice infobox in Kikki's article? (BTW, I got absolutely addicted to Kikki today :D [[Image:Icons-mini-action_go.gif]] Bravada [[Image:Icons-mini-comment yellow.gif]] Talk to me! 00:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * PS. Now for something more serious - does scoring zero in the semi count as nul points or not?


 * Perhaps, but this is an encyclopedia.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:15, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

ESC entry infobox
Speaking of which, I have just committed a provisional ESC entry infobox, which I believe could be used in artist's articles, as well as individual song articles (should there be such). I have inserted it into Carola's article to show you how it might look like. I used the layout of the band Infobox with some stuff borrowed from the Country Infobox, as I find them classy-looking compared to the usual infoboxes. There are many more fields and options that could be added, and I believe there is a lot of room for improvement, so feel free to edit and comment on that. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 16:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC) PS. Perhaps we might also derive a Melodifestivalen entry infobox based on this?

More categories
Have created Blnguyen 05:49, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Nominated for deletion
I nominated the Template:Eurovision Song Contest host cities for deletion. It is rather big, and perhaps not useful for the majority of readers? / Fred-Chess 17:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Eurovision-related FAs?
Are there any Eurovision-related Featured Articles at the moment (as in performers, presenters, etc)? The only I know is the one I worked/work on, Vanilla Ninja, but I'm wondering if there's any more. Esteffect 21:17, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, Celine Dion is featured.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 05:41, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Misc
I'm glad to see my orginial project has some more life :), but I dont have time dor it anymore and I dont feel like it :(. But what does need some work is Phase 4.

"Phase 4

(Country Year Pages: In Progress)

Phase 4 will involve creating more new pages: Country in the Eurovision Song Contest XXXX, giving information about that year in Eurovision for that country, eg how the song was chosen, how well it did, any other information about it. (National Song Contests) " BASICALLY thats like this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest_1957

THESE pages were supposed to be linked in this type of page (phase 3)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest

I've noticed that alot of the newer eurovisions have put country results in the main artilce. These Country in Year pages are meant for country results and what not.

goodluck improving my work.

-fonzy

Fair use images
I'm sorry to tell you, but under Fair use criteria (specifically, item 9), it is impermissible to use Image:Eurovisionlogo.jpg in your userboxes and WikiProject template. Please remove or replace this image ASAP. Thank you.  howch e  ng   {chat} 21:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Eurovision
This is now up and running. Regards, ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 06:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Phase 4
Phase 4

(Country Year Pages: In Progress)

We MUST get this done! and maybe research missing information! Phase 4 is quoted as:

Phase 4 will involve creating more new pages: Country in the Eurovision Song Contest XXXX, giving information about that year in Eurovision for that country, eg how the song was chosen, how well it did, any other information about it. (National Song Contests)

USE THIS SITE TO HELP WITH PHASE 4!: http://www.geocities.com/national_finals/

end quote.

We should all work together and get this done. Unkited Kingdom is the most complete country done, so we should finish that one first then move onto other countries!.

Running order
I have noticed Jess rearranged the countries in the 2006 article in alphabetical order. I understand that this aids searching for the details of an entry, and is in line with past articles, but I think that the running order of the songs is very important, and that there is no better way to present it by arranging the table. If we believe that people won't be so inventive as to press Ctrl+F, perhaps there might be a short "TOC" box before the tables. What do you think about it? Bravada Talk to me! 22:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that this information has at least to preserved. By re-sorting, the info is effectively deleted. People like to refer to stuff in terms of "the song that came after the french" etc, so I'd prefer running order, too. Sergeyy 09:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Everybody knows the alphabet, most of them don't know the running order of the ESC 2006. I'll change the table, right?? Mijzelf


 * If nobody's done these by the time I'm finished with the songs (going alphabetically, I've just started Estonia), I'll fiddle the tables around at the same time as moving the links to domestic links with external links to the lyrics or whatever else we have as extras. BigHaz 06:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Carried Away ? Possible merger ?
I think that this project has gotten a little carried away, and has strayed from the purpose of the Wikipedia with regard to notability, and with regard to the guidelines for music WP:MUSIC. I think you all should reconsider creating annual articles, and focus instead on creating good core articles that cover the key facts. Bejnar 07:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I really don't see how ESC articles fail to comply with the guidelines of Notability (music), which, btw, mostly deal with individual performers and not with the contest. This is a major event involving 100 million people, which generates a lot of media attention and has significant, even if dreaded, influence on the development of popular music and popular culture. What can be said to be failed here is meeting quality criteria in many of the articles, and this very project exists in order to improve them in this respect. Bravada, talk - 09:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Key articles for Wikipedia 1.0
Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team for Wikipedia 1.0 would like you to identify the "key articles" from your project that should be included in offline releases of Wikipedia based on their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 1.0 (not yet open) and later versions. Hopefully it will also help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please add to your Arts WikiProject article table any articles of quality articles|high quality]]. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist automatically for you, please contact us. Please feel free to post your suggestions right here. Thanks! Walkerma 06:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi there. I'd be guessing that Eurovision Song Contest would be the core article, and there are Eurovision Song Contest 2006 etc, for all the years back to 1956. Probably the best articles are about Vanilla Ninja, which represented Swizerland in 2005, without winning - it came in the top ten, but it is featured. Celine Dion won in 1988 and is featured, although little of the entry is actually about Eurovision. Congratulations (Eurovision) is about the 50th anniversary concert, where the best song of all time was selected, although the article itself is in a rather poor state. Apart from that, a few of the winning songs have entries in Category:Eurovision Songs and so forth.Blnguyen | rant-line 05:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, no time now, but I'll put these in your table later this week, and nominate the top article for WP:V0.5. Thanks Walkerma 06:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Featured Article nomination
Dear Eurovision enthusiasts,

I am trying to get the main Eurovision Song Contest article recognised as a Featured Article. Featured Articles are ones which fulfill certain criteria - see the FA link just given. I have done a lot of work on the main article to bring it up to standard, and am pleased to say that it has now been recognised as a Good Article.

Please give your input on whether or not you think the article is up to "Featured" standard at this link. If you have any criticisms of the article (according to Wikipedia policy), then please note them. Someone else has already said that they don't think enough sources are cited - and that it would be better if there were some "hard copy" sources (real books, as opposed to websites). If someone has a copy of one of the several books to hand which have been published about Eurovision, perhaps they could assist by checking some of the facts mentioned in the article against the book(s), and using them as references? Thanks. EuroSong talk 21:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Eurovision's Very Own Wiki
Eurovision's got its very own wiki now so if you want to help build give an email to europod@gmail.com

Problems
I recently came across a deletion page, threatening to delete ALL of the individual Eurovision Entrys for 2006. Please go to the page and show your support to keep them. They are part of phase 4. Go here: Click Here

Userboxes
You can put so that this userbox appears on your page.

Alternative To Phase 4
Given that a number of the artists (not all of them winners) currently have their own pages, might it not make more sense to add the information which would otherwise come under the rubric of "[Country] in the Eurovision Song Contest [Year]" to an entry on the song itself, which can then be linked to the performer's page? I've currently done up stub-pages for 5 or 6 countries, with information on performer, performance position and points as well as (where I know it) a brief summary of the song, so perhaps people might want to redirect their energies that way. BigHaz 22:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

no as those pages are national finals! (altough some countries dont have them and use internal jururies) take a look at the UK's seperate entries for each year (1956-1980s) as you can see they are not suitable to link elsewhere. EG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest_1961

Fair enough point when the national finals are known, but looking at the 2006 selections (to take the most recent year as an example), several countries - Bosnia and Spain are two - just say "[Country] was represented by [Performer] who sang [Song]". Perhaps a more reasonable way to run things would be to have the following pages: 1. [Country] In the Eurovision Song Contest: Summary w/ table of all the competing songs/positions/etc, as well as information on number of participations and whatever else seems relevant 2. [Name of National Final] [Year] (so "Melodifestivalen 1987"): Summary of the national final w/ table of competing songs and the result 3. Song-page for the relevant entry: Linked to from the [Country] page (so one finds "Diggi-Loo Diggi-Ley"'s song-page linked from the Sweden in the Eurovision Song Contest article). Contains info on the song, the presentation, the placing, and so on. I can see what you're going for with "[Country] in the Eurovision Song Contest [Year]", but that sounds more like an article which would give us a page on the song which was performed at the ESC itself, rather than details of the national final. BigHaz 05:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Best of Eurovision
The Best of Eurovision page does not have the Eurovision notice on its talk page, I discovered. I thought about adding the template, but I didn't, because it might have not been there for a reason. I think it is related to Eurovision. Also, do I become a member of the WikiProject just by adding my name to the project page? Red v  Blue  10:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have added the template now. Red  v  Blue  14:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Song Pages
Just a quick call for assistance:

I'm currently in the middle of creating pages on the various entries themselves (i.e. not "[Country] in the Eurovision Song Contest [Year]", but on topics like Du Bist or Eighties Coming Back). In a lot of the cases, I only know what little info I can glean from diggiloo.net or my own listening to the song, so anyone with a particular piece of info about any song is most welcome to plunge in and add it. Anything from "the song became the biggest-selling single in Estonian history" through to "It was used as a jeans ad in Swaziland" is useful. Basically, the object of the exercise is that the fact that a song was performed at ESC is probably notable enough, but if there's more to the story that'll make it more notable. BigHaz 23:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * They are notable under WP:MUSIC - as a song which has won a national contest. Blnguyen | rant-line 01:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I know that much, but what I was getting at was the fact that the more successful ones have tended to have "lives" beyond the ESC of that particular year. Obviously you've got your "Volare" and "Waterloo" which just became stratospherically famous worldwide and any number of other songs which became key in the repertoire of certain performers (Cliff Richard's entries, Olivia Newton-John's entry etc etc) and even those which "broke" people like Celine Dion and Julio Iglesias worldwide, but there could well be "lives" for other songs in there as well. To take "E Depois Do Adeus" as a classic example, it was the signal to start the Carnation Revolution - but there'd be other songs which fetched up advertising this or campaigning for that, and I'll confess to not knowing that. Hence, if someone does, they're most welcome to jump in. Kind of goes without saying, but it never hurts to say these things. BigHaz 11:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Category:Eurovision songs
This category used to contain all the numerous song articles (mostly created by User:BigHaz, it seems). I've been trying to divide it into subcategories by two schemes: one by year (e.g. Category:Estonian Eurovision songs) and the other by year (e.g Category:Eurovision songs of 1996). I could use some help, since there's a lot of pages to recategorise. Thanks in advance! --Rain74 11:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Please note also that Category:19XX Eurovision songs should be a subcat of Category:19XX songs, and Category:Country's Eurovision songs that of Category:Country's music, Country's songs or the like.

If the category-making ends up ahead of me (i.e. I'm currently at the tail end of Iceland, so if anyone has created "Irish Eurovision songs" or whathaveyou), just drop me a line on my talk page and I'll categorise the new articles per the categories made. BigHaz 00:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Map on the winners' article
This could be a pretty tricky issue to resolve, but I just found the map at Eurovision Song Contest winners and it may be a tad misleading. Riva's win for Yugoslavia is credited to Croatia on the map, despite the fact that there was no such country at the time. Perhaps we should edit the map to put in an inset as they do with Football World Cup maps showing positions of countries which no longer exist (in this case, Yugoslavia, since none of the other countries no longer in existence are relevant to that map). Just a thought, since it seems to resolve the ambiguity pretty easily. BigHaz 00:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

DYK
I think that we are seeing a few too many eurovision entires on DYK - there has been one a day for over a month. Could you guys limit yourselves to three suggestions a week or suggest new artist articles? Thanks. --Peta 04:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Per my comment on the DYK talk page, I'm attempting to get one nomination (regardless of whether it goes further than that) per competing country. If it gets frontpaged, it gets frontpaged, but that's hardly my call to make. There'll be some occasions where there might be a worthy song every day for a couple of days, but there'll almost certainly be occasions where there aren't (either because the songs aren't interesting enough or because I'm too busy to keep cranking them out at the same rate). BigHaz 01:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with whatever is offered to DYK. Better to postivie campaign for other projects to increase their DYK participation.Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 02:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Out of curiosity, does the Eurovision portal get the DYKs archived to it in the manner that other portals do? I've noticed that it's not listed on the DYK nominations page, but that may not mean anything. BigHaz - Schreit mich an (Review me) 02:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * People have to do that manually. I am getting a bit lazy to be honest, and haven't updated the news and DYK bits for either of Portal:Eurovision or Portal:Swimming (even after recent world records by Laure Manaudou,Brendan Hansen, Jessicah Schipper and Michael Phelps). Both have been basically unchallenged for four months aside from when Alexandru Busa deleted the featured article on the featured article [[Vanilla Ninja and replaced it with Ruslana which had POV problems. So yes, we should update them by cut/paste from the DYK archive and you don't need admin powers to do that. Actually Australia and India are featured portals and they don't update the DYKs either, at least not the AUs and IND DYKs that I did.... But yeah, feel free to edit the portal, we have more info since you and Bravada did heaps of songs, so it should probably be updated. WE don't have any pics which are free though :(Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 02:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a go when I'm next archiving my page and see what happens. I guess in the downtime before ESC '07 there's no huge rush. BigHaz - Schreit mich an (Review me) 02:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Country Table
In the country tables on all the pages, should they be listed in alphabetical order or should they be in the order as they were performed?
 * I would say in the order they were performed (I guess we discussed it already), as it is more informative for the user (provided it is clearly stated that it is presented in that order). I guess the order of performance is one of the rather more important pieces of information regarding invidual contests, and if not presented using the table, it would have to be presented in some other way, presumably quite awkward, and quite obviously redundant. Bravada, talk - 03:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Im just making sure because I'm going to rearrange the tables in the 2000's since Im working on those pages at the moment. Evilperson 20 03:46, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Please do! It's really great that you volunteered to this toil! Bravada, talk - 03:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Eurovision country pages
Hi all,

I've been trying to clean up some of the pages so far, and all have templates with information on broadcaster etc now, but the country pages are all really inconsistent with layout with each other, some even using different templates, some listing entries from first to last, others from the latest to the earliest, etc... I was wondering what can be done to keep them all consistent with each other? Some of them are very up to date so I don't want to ruin anyone's work by editing them all myself, but can some sort of standout layout be used for all of them? Would it be easier if everyone has a country or two to 'look after'? If so, I'm happy to take over the Czech Republic (as I have a contact in charge of Eurovision at Czech television), and Moldova, as I doubt there are any Moldovans actively working here...

Congratulations
I hope nobody objects to me adding Congratulations to the Eurovision template. Evilperson 20 05:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Eurovision Song Contest 1961
The picture for this is actually the logo for the 1959 Contest-can we fix this please? Lemon martini 20:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Project Directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
 * User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
 * User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
 * User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 13:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Phase 2
Might I ask you to center table entries by adding , like I did in 1981? It makes it look better. Thanks in advance, Zé da Silva 17:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Stablepedia
Beginning cross-post.
 * See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★ MESSED  ROCKER ★  23:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

''End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.''

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)