Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fashion/Archive 6

Fashion trend in the USA: Pajama look
I found an interesting source about USA fashion trends with teenagers: WhisperToMe (talk) 20:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Holmes, Elizabeth. "Why Not Wear Pajamas All Day?" The Wall Street Journal. January 19, 2012.

Ulster
The ulster is mentioned in the Sherlock Holmes stories titled 'A Study in Scarlet,' 'The Sign of Four,' 'A Scandal in Bohemia,' and 'The Adventure of the Noble Bachelor.' The ulster is NOT mentioned in 'The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle' as stated in the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_coat — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.169.142.111 (talk) 15:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "It was a bitter night, so we drew on our ulsters and wrapped cravats about our throats." from The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle at Wikisource. Mabalu (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Chinese character tattoos
Here is a source about Chinese character tattoos: WhisperToMe (talk) 10:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Chang, Cindy. "Cool Tat, Too Bad It's Gibberish." The New York Times. April 2, 2006.

WikiWomen's History Month
Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Fashion will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in fashion. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 20:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Ioana Spangenberg
I have just created the stub article "Ioana Spangenberg". Please edit it as you see fit. Axl ¤  [Talk]  23:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Titles should reflect the cultural focus of the articles
An article on WESTERN 1970s fashion should not simply be called "1970s fashion" -- it's misleading and frankly very confusing. I was skimming the article trying to find out about western-African fashion in this time period and only half-way through did it hit me: 'this is only going to be about the USA and maybe Europe too'.

I really think something needs to be done about the way these naming conventions work.

69.122.65.173 (talk) 05:23, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Consider this template, for example:

It's called "History of fashion" but, it shows up as "History of Western Fashion" then it links to articles based on time periods ... with no mention in many cases of the western focus.

As a potential contributor this tells me that information that I have about, say, west african fashion in the 70s isn't a part of the "history of fashion" Something is very wrong here.

I fear the way that information is organized encourages the view that only the west has "fashion" and everyone else has "ethnic dress" ... which is somehow without its own history ... but, in most cases this is not the case (there are some cultures where fashions change very slowly, but they are more rare than most people think) --

I don't know how to even start addressing this. Any ideas?

69.122.65.173 (talk) 05:30, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think someone, maybe me, did raise this concern a few years back when we were trying to get this project off the ground. There would be nothing wrong with appropriately renaming the existing articles and, at the same time, starting a history of African fashion for the same time period (or a larger one depending on what sources you have available). Daniel Case (talk) 06:37, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, as Fashion says, for older periods, the sources say only the West did have fashion, and there are unlikely to be sources for older African fashions in particular (pre-20th century say). No renaming should be attempted without a proper debate - see WP:Requested moves.  Whether or not only the West has fashion, it is certain that only the West has WP articles on its fashion history. I would write the articles and link them from the existing ones as a first step; the case for a rename is stronger if there are actually other articles.    Johnbod (talk) 10:47, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Just my two penn'orth - don't assume that "fashion" and "dress" are interchangeable - fashion is driven by the desire for change, novelty, and flux, and to have what is new, whilst "dress" is more static and gradually changes in response to external stimulus. For example, (and as I am not an expert on this area please forgive me if I am incorrect) glass beads only entered the pantheon of Native American dress when they were introduced by Western sources. Similarly, a lot of the textiles we now associate with traditional African garb were introduced by the Western/Eastern world. Some people really HATE the term "fashion" when applied to non-Western dress because it is thought to imply faddishness and triviality. Usually the term "dress" is used to refer to what might also be called "ethnic dress", but I would avoid terms like "ethnic dress" - I'd suggest "History of dress in Africa" (or wherever) as a way of avoiding the connotations that terms like "fashion", "ethnic", etc have. The term "dress" also embraces a lot more than the term "clothing" - including body adornments and decorations. If Africa now has a strong, documented fashion identity and presence (like India is developing) then by all means start an article for African fashion, but do be careful to what (and how) you apply the term. Hope these thoughts help. Mabalu (talk) 12:41, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course we do have an article for Ancient Egyptian fashion which is technically African although it's in the Western fashion template. Mabalu (talk) 12:59, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The whole "western" tagging of the history of fashion articles was a lowest-common-denominator solution to an edit war that erupted some years ago over the naming of these articles.   I am certainly open to revisiting the entire taxonomy of our articles on the history of dress.  It's silly that we don't have solid survey articles on broad periods and cultures.  I'd like to see discussion of whether we use "dress" vs "clothing" vs "costume" as specialists and non-specialists use these terms differently.  I'd vote for dress as long as we have an introduction that explains the broader meaning of dress in cultural studies.
 * Perhaps this project should have a task force on the History of Dress? We could propose a taxonomy for discussion and then move  things around.- PKM (talk) 20:52, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Although I'm not at all knowledgeable on this subject, I find it extremely difficult to believe that there was no such thing as "fashion" outside Europe and its colonies for most of world history. Did styles of dress really not change in, say, the imperial courts of China or Japan? The fact that the sorts of people who become Wikipedia editors don't have enough interest in imperial Chinese fashion to write articles about it doesn't justify the practice of labeling all of the articles as "fashion," especially since the recent articles still only deal with the West. Elliotreed (talk) 18:40, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Inquiring about article notability
Hello, I wanted to inquire with you all to determine whether the fashion label "Augden" meets the threshold for a Wikipedia article. I know that the General Notability Guideline states that "if a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article," but I am not as familiar with the conventions for fashion articles. There is no current article about this label, but it has been the subject of a fair amount of coverage in reliable sources:


 * Harpers Bazaar
 * Real Simple
 * InStyle
 * MSN Glo (borderline WP:RS)
 * Additionally, it has been the subject of articles in People Magazine, Hamptons Magazine and Chicago Magazine; however none of these publications make their full archives available online

Simply put, is this label notable enough to be the subject of a standalone Wikipedia article? What are your thoughts? Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 21:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jeff! It's probably borderline - I think the problem is that the first two links appear to be blogs and I'm not sure we're allowed to use ANY blog - even official curatorial blogs on museum websites - as sources. (someone correct me if I'm wrong here.) and the Instyle one appeared very slight. Still, sounds like an interesting company from the eco knit perspective so probably worth keeping an eye on. Mabalu (talk) 22:10, 27 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the quick and informative response, Mabalu! The first two links are blogs, but since they are blogs published by news organizations (in this case, reputable print magazines), I believe they are considered to be reliable sources, per WP:NEWSBLOG. I also found coverage in Hamptons Magazine and People Magazine; though those were more along the lines of "mentions" instead of full articles about the line. Based on these factors, does your opinion change or does this label need more coverage to warrant a standalone article? Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 23:04, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I think you should go for it - Wikipedia do encourage people to be bold, and if you have the sources, it'll be difficult for people to argue lack of sources. Having just recently worked through a LOAD of sportswear company wikipages to disambiguate Sportswear, I don't see why Augden should be any less worthy of an article than some of the ones I dealt with... at least you have sources! :) Mabalu (talk) 23:42, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Why is Sportswear a disambig at all? It's a WP:TWODABS case, and one for which it seems to me the primary meaning would be active wear. bd2412  T 02:01, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi BD2412 - The two terms are too similar and too easily confused. There is sportswear (activewear) and then there is sportswear, a standard term in the fashion industry. A tracksuit is not the same thing as a cardigan and skirt, yet both can be described with the identically spelt term "sportswear". There have been exhibitions on sportswear (in an explicitly non-activewear context) at major museums12 and publications on sportswear as fashion. When I disambiguated all the sportswear links, I found a number of incorrect/misleading links where the reference was for sportswear in the fashion context rather than activewear. People see the term "sportswear" linked to, say, Donna Karan, and need to be aware that this does not mean that she is famous for football kits or tracksuits. That was why I decided a disambiguation link was needed, especially as people kept repeatedly removing the hatnotes on both pages. Mabalu (talk) 09:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Much appreciated, Mabalu. Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 16:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thresher & Glenny
Hi, an article regarding Thresher & Glenny, a London tailors established in 1683, was deleted in December 2011. I posted the message below on HJ Mitchell's talk page on 1st March regarding the article deletion, but still haven't recieved a response. If someone could please review the issue and let me know how to proceed.

Message to HJ Mitchell - Thresher & Glenny
Hi Harry. Could you please review the Thresher & Glenny Wikipedia article and advise me on what needs to be done to get my client’s article reinstated to a point where the Wikipedia community is happy with it? While the article was deleted as a result of the BP COI Investigations, the article was originally created by an independent Wikipedian who had no connection with Thresher & Glenny and it was subsequently added to by other independent Wikipedians. The article was previously edited by BigglesWiki to improve the structure and layout by condensing information into related sections. These sections included The Growth of the Firm, Customers, Royal Warrant and a Timeline detailing the company’s history. Existing article content and newly written content was included under these sections, with internal references to useful Wikipedia articles and external references to reliable third party sources, including The Times newspaper and Westminster City Archives. It would be useful to understand from you and others what needs to be done to get the article reinstated and also whether any of the content that was added can be included. It is important that this issue is reviewed and resolved in accordance with NPOV. I look forward to hearing your response and please let me know if you need any additional information. BePoWiki (talk) 15:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks. BePoWiki (talk) 15:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

La Perla (clothing)
Article needed for La Perla (clothing), an Italian high-end lingerie and accessories company established in 1954. Cheers! bd2412 T 01:53, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikisource/Commons request
Hi,

I was wondering if someone from this WikiProject would be interested in doing a 'rescue from raster' on the Harpers patterns shown here:-

http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/xoom_nbci/otherpatterns.htm

Ideally it should be possible to convert these into a form like SVG (or if inclined whatever standard format is used for digital patterns) so that they can be used again :).

Sfan00 IMG (talk) 15:52, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Merge comment requested - Body hygiene kit
Should Body hygiene kit merge with Dopp kit? Please comment at Talk:Body hygiene kit. Thanks, D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  14:26, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Merge comment requested - Joan Juliet Buck and Asma Al-Assad
There is currently a discussion to move content from Joan Juliet Buck to Asma al-Assad and/or Vogue (magazine). Please comment at Talk:Asma al-Assad. Thanks, D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  04:17, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems the discussion focussed on moving content to Asma al-Assad, not Vogue, and has closed. Discussion should start on Vogue page too to possibly move it there.--Aichikawa (talk) 13:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Paris Hilton#Recent massive changes
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Paris Hilton. — JmaJeremy • Ƭalk • Cont   05:28, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Shawl could use a quick review
Could folks please take a look at shawl? It seems to be currently about 90% about the culture of Kashmir, e.g.  rather unbalanced.

-- 186.221.135.185 (talk) 01:38, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

New pages - Paraffection and Incorporated Society of London Fashion Designers
Created new pages on Chanel subsidiary Paraffection and 20th century British fashion organisation Incorporated Society of London Fashion Designers. Grateful for any improvements you can make. (Eartha78 (talk) 00:48, 28 September 2012 (UTC))

Proposed merge of Liquid foundation and Foundation (cosmetics)
I invite you to join the discussion on the article's talk page.  It Is Me Here   t / c 12:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Article on yoga wear that will include the already existing Yoga pants
Hello there! I was thinking that maybe it would make sense to make a comprehensive article on yoga wear rather than keeping a stub-like one on just yoga pants? Pants can be merged into the major article. I kinda started working on it here and would really appreciate your opinion and advice.

--Me do yoga (talk) 12:06, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Cleaning up 1550–1600 in fashion
Over the last several months, editors (in good faith) have added English-specific, inaccurate, or poorly-sourced information, mostly citing personal websites, to the article 1550–1600 in fashion. I intend to replace it with more accurate information from scholarly sources where appropriate; however, much of this should simply be removed as unnecessary, redundant, or too specifically English for a survey article. I am always reluctant to remove large chunks of text without consensus. If anyone wants to help clean this up or comment on what is needed on the Talk page, I would appreciate it. Thanks! - 19:48, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want to run it by me before or after, let me know what you'd like to do. Daniel Case (talk) 21:29, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! - PKM (talk) 21:49, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

AFD for Bruyere suit - input from 1930s-50s fashion historians needed
Hi, please can other users with an interest in mid-20th century fashion history provide input on the Articles for deletion/Bruyere Suit - I am trying to explain that while a suit designed by Bruyere can be called a "Bruyere suit" and multiple sources confirm that the designer was known for designing nice suits, she did not (unlike Chanel) design a specific style of suit that is automatically suggested by her name. As I am getting too involved in this debate, it would be good if others could take an impartial look at it and offer their thoughts. Hopefully this is not considered canvassing. Thanks so much. Mabalu (talk) 13:02, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Review requested at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Reebok EasyTone
Thanks for any input for that new editor. MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Fragrances
I looked around Wikipedia a bit but couldn't find any discussion on this topic, so forgive me if it's a retread. There don't seem to be many articles on fragrances other than celebrity ones (e.g., Pink Friday). Is that something we should work on? I found it surprising that there's no article for Acqua di Giò, for example, given that it's such a perennial bestseller.

If this isn't the place for this discussion, could you direct me to the right place/people? Thanks!

wia (talk) 17:08, 4 December 2012 (UTC)


 * This certainly would be useful. Fashion subjects are generally under-covered on here unless there is a celebrity association or another reason. (general editors on fashion related subjects are in quite a minority here.) It is a question of showing that the fragrance itself is notable, however - probably a lot of such fragrances are best kept as sections on their creator's page, or perhaps on a page titled Fragrances of Schiaparelli (or whoever), as I can't imagine there are that many individually notable scents (watch me be proved wrong!). I've just come across List of perfumes which is actually quite a surprisingly poor page in itself (perhaps, like the lists of jewelry and fashion designers, it could be limited to perfumes with an article of their own, or which at least have a fuller description (not just a namecheck) in their creator's article.) Mabalu (talk) 17:39, 4 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree wholeheartedly. Ethical practices in fragrance formulation have been a notable issue recently--the Komen fragrance controversy got a lot of press, for example--and more generally understanding the history of fragrance tech is useful for the ongoing evolution of the medium. Thanks for flagging the issue - will keep it in mind. Fashionethics (talk) 14:05, 21 December 2012 (UTC)