Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/Heraldry by country

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 * Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * - Jarry1250 (t, c) 07:22, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 10:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Discussion
I have added some requests below. It may seem a little overwhelming at first, but we can divide and conquer and get this list taken care of before too long. I would suggest giving priority to article creation and reassessment. I can take on creating Japanese heraldry and assessing Maltese heraldry. I can't assess the other two, because I was the major contributor. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Importance rankings
This is a proposed importance list (in the usual way of being not whether work needs doing, but rather how the page is important to an encyclopaedia). Amendments are welcome; reasons should be noted below the table, preferably.

I'm not altogether sure that we should use an importance scale, for two reasons. H&V doesn't use an importance scale, and I don't see a compelling reason for us to add one to some H&V articles. Also, I think heraldry-related articles are especially prone to WP:BIAS and having an importance scale may play into that bias. I'm also unsure on what basis we would rate importance - by which countries have the best potential for a GA or FA, or by which countries have the longest or richest heraldic tradition, or by which countries have the most white English-speaking Christians? See what I mean? It quickly plays into the Anglocentric systemic bias, especially when one looks at how the source materials are weighted. We have to face the fact that there are far more (and far better) sources on British heraldry than on any other heraldic tradition, particularly when one gets outside of Europe/North America/Australia. I don't think we can say any country or any country's heraldic tradition is any more or less important than any other. I realize that it's the articles we are rating and not the countries, honestly I do, but it easily looks like we are just picking our favorites and it plays right into the bias problem. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 14:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Requests for article creation

 * Croatian heraldry is a redirect to Coat of arms of Croatia. I would like to see this redirect replaced by a stub.  Anyone have the time/resources to get it started? Wilhelm_meis (talk) 02:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Turned into a stub. The reference is really detailed on many such issues, it's worth looking at. - Jarry1250 (t, c) 12:22, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Japanese heraldry is a redirect to Mon (crest). I would like to see this redirect replaced by a stub.  I'm adding this to my own to-do list.  If anyone would like to help, let me know on my talk page. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:21, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Requests for article improvement

 * German heraldry - still has obvious content lacunae, more resources needed. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 02:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Portuguese heraldry - stub, needs attention. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Norwegian heraldry - stub, could easily be improved to Start class or better, but needs citations for WP:Verifiability. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Spanish heraldry - needs citations to improve verifiability. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Belarusian heraldry - does not cite sources. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * United States heraldry - does not cite sources. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Romanian heraldry - basically an image gallery, needs to be rewritten as prose and images trimmed down to notable examples. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hungarian heraldry - bordering on Start class, but needs improvement to better cover the topic. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Irish heraldry - unrated, but needs improvement to better cover the topic. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Danish heraldry - good start, but needs references. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Finnish heraldry - unrated, needs references. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Requests for article assessment

 * Icelandic heraldry - newly created, needs to be assessed. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 02:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd have no problem with B-class here, except that's hard to justify based on two sources, one of which only concerns a specific issue. I can however, appreciate the problem here concerning the lack of those sources existing. Hard to decide really. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 10:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Russian heraldry - newly created. Somewhere between start/B (probably former for the time being) since I found the Russian regulation system rather confusing, not to mention contradictory. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 19:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Good Articles

 * Canadian heraldry (since 24 October, 2008)
 * Swedish heraldry (since 17 July, 2009)

Peer Review

 * Canadian heraldry (since June, 2009)

Heraldry by country template talk
Should we add Imperial heraldry to the template (i.e. Holy Roman Empire heraldry [redirect to German heraldry, at least for now], Byzantine heraldry, Russian Imperial heraldry [redirect to National emblems of the Russian Empire, for now], etc.)? Wilhelm_meis (talk) 08:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there should be any that would actually make pages - Byzantine heraldry, certainly. I think that actually HRE and Russian Empire ones would be best as sections of the current nations' pages, since they match up well enough. If there are then individual pages like the last of your links, then {main} would be applicable, but I wouldn't consider them necessary on this template. Russian heraldry should be created - I've found a good site and me or Grandiose may get round to it. For the record, someone added Frisian heraldry, which, while I wouldn't have added it myself, is not altogether disagreeable. As a second option, we could split the template into "Current nation states", and "Other states or areas". - Jarry1250 [ In the UK? Sign the petition! ] 09:10, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I like that idea: 1)Current countries and 2)Former countries. I don't want to get tied up in semantics of "nation state" vs. "country", but for areas that were formerly identified as countries, but are no longer recognized as "countries" (viz Flanders, Frisia, Byzantium, etc.), I think "Former countries" should be a sufficient designation.  My original thought was to have a separate section of "Empires", but I would not be opposed to absorbing those into "Former countries".  Sorry I've been so slow about the Japanese heraldry article.  I've been gathering sources and looking over the data, and what I have found has mostly supported the idea that the Japanese, during their feudal period, had a broadly similar system of instruments serving similar purposes, but in forms different from their European counterparts.  They had all manner of heraldic banners, but no painted shields, but then they also had the clan mon (usually called "crest" in English sources).  I'm also waiting to get hold of a couple more sources from the library.  What appear to be the best sources always seem to be checked out.  O well, I'll get it done eventually. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 11:57, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I recently added Cornish heraldry under the United Kingdom but it has now been removed. As is explained in the article, under heraldic law Cornwall constituted a separate heraldic nation, and that is why I added it. If it can't be put under the United Kingdom then where should it be placed??? Bodrugan (talk) 16:58, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I have just removed some links in the template, links which were red or which just were redirects to national emblems (Turkey, Frisia etc.). While there may be reason to have these in the template, I think re-adding them should wait at least until there are stub articles created for them. Arms Jones (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2014 (UTC)