Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland/Archive 8

Category:Northern Irish people
I have started a discussion here with regards making a change to the name of the Category.--Vintagekits (talk) 23:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Sports flags
There are currently a number of sports flags being used for Ireland related sports teams, a WP:CON has already been reached to remove the Rugby union flag as per Manual_of_Style_(icons). The following flags I feel are also Wikipedia inventions. Can you please provide a reference for the flags below usage outside wiki or I will be requesting a bot run to remove them and replace with the plain text link.


 *  🇮🇪 ireland  → 🇮🇪 ireland (football, 1882-1922)
 *  🇮🇪 ireland  → 🇮🇪 ireland (cricket) Keep ref found
 *   →  (rugby union) Remove Con to remove
 *   →  (rugby league) Change Uses tricolour links below
 *   →  (field hockey) Keep ref found
 *   →  (ice hockey) Change Uses tricolour as per  Gnevin (talk) 00:42, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * (football, 1882-1922) is as far as I know, NOT a wikipedia made flag. But the Irish part of the UK at the time? &mdash; CHAN  DLER #10 &mdash; 16:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not being clear, the issue with the football flag is was it used by the IFA at the time ? Gnevin (talk) 16:12, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * On the NHL articles, we use for the Republic of Ireland players. GoodDay (talk) 16:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * So it is safe to remove    ? Gnevin (talk) 17:04, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know. GoodDay (talk) 17:18, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I cannot find a biographical article below Category:Irish ice hockey players that uses a flag icon besides Canada or UK/GB. Also the Ireland national ice hockey team hasnt been around very long, it seems. However, a search revealed to me that the clover flag is used in some 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 world championship articles. I dont know why. It is not used in 2008, and Ireland is not found on iihf.com before those championships. Maybe there used to be irish players in "Team Great Britain". There are also clover flag on the 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 world ranking and Div II / Div III main world championship articles. --Bamsefar75 (talk) 12:41, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The cricket flag was the logo of the Irish Cricket Union, but since changing their name to Cricket Ireland, they've now got a different logo. Andrew nixon (talk) 16:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * So should we keep  🇮🇪 ireland  or do they have a new flag? Gnevin (talk) 17:04, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec)Btw, I can't seem to find the discussion about the Rugby union flag and I would wonder if WP:RU has been involved?... Because for me the flags of the teams representing the whole of Ireland are there not to decorate but to differentiate from the Republic of Ireland. When it comes to any hard proof for the cross being used for football, I don't have any, but others might have. &mdash; CHAN  DLER #10 &mdash; 16:26, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * RU discussion. The above flags are being suggested for removal as per Manual_of_Style_(icons). Can you find someone with even weak proof for the flag . Gnevin (talk) 16:59, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't even know what you need proof for? Every nations flag is used to represent the national football teams in FIFA, and from what I can understand, the cross was the flag of Ireland within the UK at the time, just as the flag of England is still. &mdash; CHAN  DLER #10 &mdash; 17:24, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ireland didn't have an official flag from 1882 to 1922, then it split in two and the free state and the north had a flag. Wiki needs proof that the IFA used the cross flag otherwise its just WP:OR Gnevin (talk) 19:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Rugby league, it seems league is using the tricolour  I am aware forums aren't great sources but here are some more. Would anyone be opposed to the 4 province flag being changed to tricolour? Gnevin (talk) 22:35, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Split Ireland topics
Ireland seems to the only country in Category:"Country/Territory_topics"_templates with this kind of formatting .I suggest we change it to be more like Template:Northern_Ireland_topics or Template:Saudi Arabia topics and make it ROI only Gnevin (talk) 03:02, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the template should continue to cover the whole island of Ireland. The History, Geography and Culture sections are full of topics covering the whole island – for example languages, music, cuisine, sport, or the lists of loughs, rivers, mountains, provinces, counties, cities etc. Politics is the only section that should be divided between the north and south, and it is already. I also propose that template Northern Ireland be absorbed into template Ireland – again, its full of topics that extend to the rest of the island. ~Asarlaí 14:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

John O'Connell (MP) ???
... born in 1801 or 1810 ??? --giorces (talk) 12:39, 18 January 2009 (UTC) mail


 * The Italian Wikipedia has the correct date, it's 1810. I've tried to improve this page. Strawless  (talk) 00:16, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Brian Cowen
The article of Our Beloved Leader / Spawn of Satan (Delete where applicable) is the subject of a good old fashioned edit war. Most amusing addition so far, the phrase "until his unexpected death in 1984" on Bernard Cowen. It is currently unknown if Bernard Cowen was planning on being immortal and then something went wrong. Wade in if you feel like it! Snappy (talk) 11:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Terminology of TDs and the Oireachtas
I think I have found a problem in our current usage of terminology wrt TDs and the Oireachtas. Comments welcome at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Ireland-related articles). -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:35, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Proposed move of Names of the Irish state
On the basis that there never has been a the sole Irish state. Talk:Names of the Irish state ~ <font color="Brown" size="2" face="Impact">R .<font color="brown" size="2" face="impact">T .<font color="brown" size="2" face="impact">G 18:53, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Gweedore / Gaoth Dobhair
User:Sarah777 has just moved Gweedore to Gaoth Dobhair, County Donegal, which is in contravention of the WP:Manual_of_Style_(Ireland-related_articles), despite there not being consensus on the move (see the talk page). The MOS says "Where the English and Irish names are different, and the Irish name is the official name, but has not yet gained favour in English usage, use the English name" and this is the case for Gweedore; look at the links at the bottom of the page, where the Irish versions all say Gaoth Dobhair and the English versions all say Gweedore. Sure, the Indian articles are all at names like Kolkata rather than Calcutta, but (just as an example), we have an article on Munich not Munchen. Different languages have different names for places. Either change the MOS, or abide by it. Chris (talk) 09:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:43, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

List of politicians
List of Irish politicians includes a list of poltical office-holders, which is intended to include all TDs, senators and so on. It is woefully incomplete, but still big enough to make the article difficult to edit. To make things easier to handle and hopefully encourage expansion pof the list, I have split out the five sections of the list of office-holders to sub-articles (details at Talk:List of Irish politicians).

The reason for my note here is that the split-out sections will now be only on my watchlist, which makes them vulnerable to vandalism. To keep more eyes focused on them, it would be great more editors added these to their watchlists. I have included the links below to make this easy to do:


 * List of Irish politicians/Office holders, A–C  (add A–C to your watchlist)
 * List of Irish politicians/Office holders, D–G  (add D–G to your watchlist)
 * List of Irish politicians/Office holders, H–M  (add H–M to your watchlist)
 * List of Irish politicians/Office holders, N–Q  (add N–Q to your watchlist)
 * List of Irish politicians/Office holders, R–Y  (add R–Y to your watchlist)

Thanks! -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:58, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I really don't understand the usefulness of list like this. Its so big ,will never be complete . Same as List of Irish people, I mean what's the point ,is it to have everyone in [Category:Irish_people]] and it's subcats listed ? Gnevin (talk) 18:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If the list of politicians included every TD and senator since 1918, that would be about 2260 people (Ciarán Cannon is one of most recent 6 people to take a seat in the Oireachtas, and is number 2253 on the Oireachtas Members Database). if we add in the 1801-1922 MPs and representative peers, WE'VE PROBABLY GOT ANOTHER 1500. So while it's a big job, it is doable.
 * I share your reservations about List of Irish people. It sets its standard for inclusion as "notable Irish people", which means anyone with a biographical article on wikipedia, which number well over 10,000. However, there are similar lists for other countries: French people, English people, Scots and Lists of Canadians.  I like way that the Canadian list is organised, with sublists by occupation which are split out when they become big enough.  The Canadian approach could be adopted more systematically for List of Irish people, which has already used it under some headings.
 * I look at these lists as being like the year-in-Ireland articles: useless at the start, but become more useful as they are expanded over time, even if that takes years. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:07, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, you PastorW, you. Kittybrewster <font color="0000FF">&#9742;  19:33, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * After Jack Glass picketed Billy Connolly's gig, Billy picketed Jack's church with a placard saying "Jack Glass is a wee pastor" ... but I'm sure you dinna mean it like that.
 * PW's stuff was fine so long as he stuck to bishops. The problem came when he started creating squillions of bizarrely-named categories, because they messed up the category system and other articles. Nobody needs to look at the years-in-Ireland articles or the lists unless they want to go there. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Prosposed change too WP:ATH
Apparently the current wording of WP:ATH excludes GAA players. I've proposed a change here Gnevin (talk) 19:38, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

AFD nominations for Eoin Liston and Mossie Lyons amoung others
Multiple Gaelic games AFD's currently on going Gnevin (talk)
 * I apologize if I nominated any true stars of the sport, but since it is an amateur sport, automatic notability is not conferred. Without reliable third-party sources for these articles, this type of misunderstanding is bound to happen again.  Please add references before you post articles to show that the subject is notable.  Consult some of the other sports Wikiprojects, WP:NFL, WP:Tennis, WP:MMA, WP:College football, etc. if you need.-- 2008 Olym pian chit chat 20:11, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * For future reference, please note that there was a consensus to keep all of these articles, and the closing admin noted in at least one AfD debate that the nominations were based on the nominator's misunderstanding of WP:ATHLETE. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to move Foreign relations of the Republic of Ireland
I am proposing to move the above to Foreign relations of Ireland. The reasons are set out at Talk: Foreign relations of the Republic of Ireland. Hope you can lend your support to this long overdue move. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:43, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts
I have just edited the project's main page to subscribe the project to a handy feature which I only just heard about, called Article alerts. Once they are generated by a bot (which may take a few days), the alerts will appear in a subpage called WikiProject Ireland/Article alerts.

By default they are also transcluded into the project's main page, but this can be turned off by changing a parameter in the a ArticleAlertbotSubscription template. It's currently, but display can be turned off changing this to

However, I suggest leaving this until we see how big the alerts list is. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts
This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

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Thanks. — Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}<sub style="margin-left:-4.0ex;">κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:17, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Six nations 2009
Congratulations on winning the six nations 2009 grand slam to all at Wikiproject Ireland and Wikiproject Northern Ireland! Fribbler (talk) 22:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Truce terms
Hi. I'm trying to write an article on this subject (words used by children to get a temporary respite in a game) and would be very obliged for any information from Ireland on this. Personal memories are a starting point but sources would be even better! Many thanks. Fainites barley scribs 13:21, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Golden Spiders
The Golden Spiders are an award for best Irish website. Why does it redirect to an article on "Spider-Man (2002 video game)"? Jaqian (talk) 14:42, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Because not one has written an article for it and the term must be associated with the video game per the page history. ww2censor (talk) 15:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

British Isles rename?
British Isles has been requested to be renamed to something else at WP:RM, see Talk:British Isles. 76.66.193.69 (talk) 04:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Aerfort na Minna
I was curious to know if this is the correct place for the article. According to the Irish Aviation Authority the name is Aerphort Chonamara but in the article it is called Aerfort na Minne and Connemara Regional Airport. A quick (and not relilable) Google search gives Aerphort Chonamara (182), Aerfort na Minna (378), Aerfort na Minne (3,760), Connemara Regional Airport (6,300) and Connemara Airport (176,000). I realise that the Google results are not the best indicataion but it does appear to me that Aerfort na Minne or Connemara Regional Airport might be the better title. The airline using the airport also uses Connemara Airport. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 18:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

86.45.95.216 / 83.71.108.116
Hi, It looks like an editor who has had several warnings, 86.45.95.216 (resolves to "86-45-95-216-dynamic.b-ras2.srl.dublin.eircom.net"), is back today as 83.71.108.116 (resolves to "83-71-108-116-dynamic.b-ras1.srl.dublin.eircom.net"). I don't think he/she is exactly a vandal but is rather unconstructive and fond of flags. It's tempting just to undo all the edits but I wonder if there is a better way. --212.183.136.193 (talk) 19:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Portstewart
Can someone with local knowledge clean up the mess at Portstewart? ww2censor (talk) 16:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It might be helpful to revert at least the edits by Port1916 and to get this user blocked as he/she contributed since 8 April 2009 just vandalizing edits. Unfortunately, Port1916 isn't the only one who vandalized this article. --AFBorchert (talk) 21:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Brian Cowen
If anyone in interested in achieving a fair and balanced consensus on Brian Cowen's article, please contribute to the discussion on the talk page or edit the article. Currently the article is bit of a hatchet job. Snappy (talk) 05:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

County flags?
I would appreciate another set of eyes on this version of Miss Universe Ireland 2009. Are those flags actually used in that context? I removed them per WP:MOSFLAG, but if that is a per-county competition, I suppose a case could be made for keeping them. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 22:41, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Lifestyle Sports
The page Lifestyle Sports should be added to WikiProject Ireland, in my opinion, as Low-Importance. (Footyfanatic3000 (talk) 21:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC))

Update re WikiProject Ireland Collaboration
Update re.: WikiProject Ireland Collaboration - This was to be the Moderator led process to solving the Ireland naming dispute. It has descended into farce. No timetable was ever set so it was left open for the process to drag on indefinitely. Naturally no consensus emerged and now the Moderators aren't taking any action to "close the discssion". The "process" to me appears to have been a ruse (well intended or not) to stop the "disruption" caused by the RoI/IRL dispute by pretending that a process was in place to resolve the conflicting viewpoints. That "ruse" has certainly worked. Nevertheless, if you have a view, express it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration. For those who want change to the Ireland naming regime, its time once again to tackle each article at a time as the Moderator process has failed - Don't wait for it to conclude (in fact it may never conclude). Regards. Redking7 (talk) 23:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)