Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mesoamerica/Archives/Archive 3

Mesoamerican History
I think the history of Mesoamerica has a bias toward Mexico's history, the chronology is not accurate neither, We will have to work on this, I propose to the members to do it again.Authenticmaya 21:30, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If chronology is inaccurate, we need to improve it. I suspect some of the Mexico "bias" is just that more work has been done on Mexican subjects so far; expansion of information on other parts of Mesoamerica is very welcome. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 21:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I see any Mexican bias in the Mesoamerica article. However, the sub-section on "chronology" is really very poor.  I realize that this may be due to many tiny revisions over time, but the end result is almost un-readable and honestly not very accurate.  I do not have the time at this moment, but someone should take the data available and re-write the entire section in a fluid essay.  Even the timeline lacks such important sub-divisions as the "Terminal / Epiclassic" periods.  I don't mean to be overly critical, since this is all done by volunteer authors, but a much better treatment is due (and can be done using widely available textbooks and web sites). Chunchucmil 20:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed Chunchucmil that there is considerable improvement needed for the Mesoamerica and Mesoamerican chronology articles. A lot of the Mesoamerica article was translated as a time-saver from the equivalent article in the spanish language wikipedia, as was the timeline, and while Maunus, Authenticmaya and others have done some revisions since then it is still sub-optimal, as you note. Unfortunately there are many articles needing attention but with only a few regulars around here progress is only gradual, I'm afraid. Even so, agree that these repairs should have priority, perhaps once the Featured Article push for Mayan languages is out of the way we'll be able to collaborate on this one.--cjllw | TALK  03:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

erm, BoNM

 * See BoNM-Meso.
 * Cheers, --Ling.Nut 03:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for that Ling.Nut- hadn't thought of a specific project-related award, that should do nicely.--cjllw | TALK  04:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes?
Hey all - I don't know if this has been discussed before, but Chunchucmil and I have been toying around with an infobox for our Chunchucmil article (its still a work in progress) that's based on a couple I saw for archaeological sites in Florida (e.g., Crystal River, Burns Lake) Has anyone considered doing these for mesoamerican sites? It would help in synthesizing the presentation of basic information. Comments, suggestions welcome. Oaxaca dan 18:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi dan- yes, a Mesoamerica site infobox template has been on the project's main WP Mesoamerica tasklist for some time, but has remained only on the drawing-board thus far. I have played around a few ideas for one, and have been working on a base locator map to go into it. I like the start you guys have made on Chunchucmil.
 * In my thinking, the fields for such an infobox would possibly include:

The fields could be made optional in most cases so as not to clutter up if not known or applicable for the particular site. Anyways, they have just been my thoughts, would welcome any comment or input. I hope to get the locator map done in the next week or two.--cjllw | TALK  04:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Locator map (using same base map of Mesoamerica for all, indicating specific site by marker)
 * Name
 * Alternative names
 * Original-language toponymic name, etymology and gloss (if known)
 * original-language polity name, etymology and gloss (if known)
 * Region (ie large-scale Mesoamerican region)
 * Sub-region (ie localised Mesoamerican area)
 * Modern-day country
 * Modern-day state/department/district, even municipio
 * Emblem glyph (Maya) or toponymic "pictogram" glyph (Nahua)
 * Culture(s) who occupied the site
 * Chronological period(s) of occupancy (thinking of some graphic representation here, if it can be coded)
 * Arch./ceramic phases (if defined)
 * estimated site size/area
 * estimated pop. at height of occupancy
 * estimated num. structures/mounds
 * maybe also # structures by type, (ballcourts, "temples", plazas, burials, etc)
 * monuments/inscriptions (# stelae, panels, etc); what script
 * industries/economies/trade
 * major investigations/excavations
 * preservation status
 * general note
 * maybe some illustrative img of the site


 * A discussion relevant to this one can be found on the Talk:Tikal page. One issue is that Tikal has a World Heritage Site infobox - does this take priority over archaeological site infoboxes (in development but not yet standardized) that convey basic site information? Comments anyone? -- Oaxaca dan 17:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I've responded there. In the next couple of days I hope to find enough contiguous time to put together the foreshadowed Mesoamerican site infobox template.--cjllw | TALK  02:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Request for help with Maya civilisation and sub-articles
After coming across this set of articles through the wikification project I realised that a bit of a sort out is required. I've put a plea for help on the article's talk page outlining my concerns in detail. Madmedea 22:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi there Madmedea. I've made a response to your comments at talk:Maya civilization.--cjllw | TALK  01:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Splitting the Meso page
I've posed the idea of splitting the Mesoamerica page - please see Talk:Mesoamerica if you have any comments/ideas. Thanks! -- Oaxaca dan 01:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Help appreciated at Mesoamerican languages
I've been upgrading the article on mesoamerican languages from a mere list to a fullfledged article over the last couple of days. I would appreciate all assistance by project members in copyediting, adding content, providing references, criticizing and posing the right questions in order to make the page progress towards a first class status. Given the current frenzy of criticism towards the Mayan languages article which I frankly thought was perfectly fine I don't have high hopes for it reaching FA status (although I have tried to avoid the same mistakes as we've made over there), but I would like to get it as close as possible. Good knowledge of either Mesoamerican history, linguistics, english grammar and spelling and citation/reference rules would be useful for the further development of the article. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 12:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow Maunus, that article is a monster! (in a good way). Really good job. I'll try and help out with the history/geography parts --Oaxaca dan 13:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Featured Picture candidate
thumb|110px|right|Las Limas Monument 1.Fellow travellers:

Because I've so loved the critiques we've received over at the Featured Article nomination of Mayan languages, I decided to nominate a photo of Las Limas Monument 1 for Featured Picture (review here). My nomination is hopefully complete enough, so I won't repeat it here but I do love this photo both for its drama and for its encyclopedic value.

I have recently found Flickr to be a goldmine of photos, many of which, because they are already Creative Commons, etc., can be immediately uploaded to Wikipedia, no questions asked. In two other cases, including the nomination above, I asked the photog for permission, which they graciously provided.

Here are my recent Flickr uploads:

These images really spark up the articles and are worth a thousand words. I would be happy to look/ask if you're interested in a specific artifact/photo. Madman 18:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

new research on plot to remove Copan artifacts British Museum
I'm a new user to Wiki and tried to add a useful reference to the article on Copan, but it was removed without explanation. The reference (Informal Empire: Mexico and Central America in Victorian Culture(Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 2005), contains new research about British attempts in the 1850s to cart away some of the ruins to the British Museum. The research was done from primary documents in British archives, and is authoritative. Wouldn't you want readers of Wiki to know about it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rdaguirre (talk • contribs) 16:44, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
 * You should raise issues on the Talk pages for that article. I don't know why your reference was removed, but I re-added it.  I think that is certainly a good "further reading" source.  Madman 02:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Valley of Oaxaca
Hey all - I've recently created an article for the sorely-needed Valley of Oaxaca - if anyone who knows anything about the valley and wants to lend a hand, it would be super-cool. For the time being, I'll be adding material in bits and pieces. Cheers to all -- Oaxaca dan 04:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey thanks dan - we've been needing that one for a while, now. I'm temporarily a little restrained in available editing time, but once the situation improves (likely not for a couple of weeks, alas) will help out where I can.--cjllw | TALK  04:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Maya ceramics
Timeline chapter timetables added to Maya ceramics article--John Zdralek 13:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I moved the dicussion to the Talk:Maya ceramics page, and commented there. -- Oaxaca dan 15:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Maya collapse article
Don't know if anyone saw, but I proposed starting up an article on the theories concerning the Maya "collapse" - mentioned it on Talk:Maya civilization. While there is sufficient material on the subject present on the Maya civilization page, I am unsure what to call the article, since "Maya collapse" is a bit of misnomer - what we're really talking about is the disintegration of political structure in the southern maya area and the shifting of focus onto the northern lowlands.. ideally, I would want it to look like Madman's excellent article on Olmec influences on Mesoamerican culture - well sourced, presents each theoretical arguement concisely, etc. - anyway, any ideas, please let me know -- Oaxaca dan 00:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that's a fantastic idea, dan- a topic certainly deserving of its own detailed treatment, and one of the most popularly (mis-)understood ones. Agreed that the title will be tricky- Maya polity changes at the Terminal Classic would be too contrived and obscure for general readership, while Terminal Maya collapse or Terminal Maya collapse theories are too broad. Right now I can't think of a wholly satisfactory one. I suppose that to get things started we could just choose one for the moment, and then as the article develops and we think of a better one, we can move things about. If it's just going to focus on the southern lowlands sites then maybe '(central and) southern lowlands' or 'southern maya area' can be explicit in the title. Or, if it's going to focus on the whole Maya picture at around the time of the Terminal Classic, then the period can be part of the name. Need to think about it a little more...--cjllw | TALK  04:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the compliments, Dan. I am finding that I am a "splitter" and I always seem to be up for pulling sections out of a long article to create a smaller, more focused article.


 * Perhaps the name of the article should be "Maya decline"? Doesn't excite me too much. Lemme think.  Madman 13:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * very cool - I'm going to set it up as Maya collapse for now - we can certainly rename it later if need be -- Oaxaca dan 18:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

(Uundent) I know: The Decline and Fall of the Mayan Empire. No wait &mdash; Gibbon already took that one... :-) --Ling.Nut 19:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I have been adding additional research, writing, and content to the Classic Maya Collapse article, with multiple academic references. But the article still states, in a box at the top of the article, that the article contains no references. What needs to be done to remove the box with this message? What does it mean that the article was "tagged" in April of 2007? I am a new editor/contributor, so any assistance would be appreciated. I'd be willing to work on the WikiProject Mesoamerica. Thank you.

/s/ Galaxy413, 9-10-07 ___________________________________________________________ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Galaxy413 (talk • contribs) 01:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi there Galaxy413. I see that you've worked out how to remove the "needs references" box. I have added the code to the article which makes the inline cites display. There are only a couple of other minor formatting touches and the like, which I am sure you will soon pick up on as readily as you have the other principles of editing here.


 * That is an excellent job you have done on that article, most impressive! You are most welcome here at WikiProject Mesoamerica- pls look around at the project's pages (not all of which are up to date, alas) for some idea of the scope and types of things we look to do. At any one time there's usually about half-a-dozen, give or take, folks regularly contributing to Mesoamerican topical articles, depending on external commitments and whatnot. Feel free to ask any of us questions, advice, or add your commentary or suggestions to ways we can improve things here. Your contribs at the Classic Maya collapse article are just the kind of thing one might hope for - many thanks! Cheers, --cjllw ʘ  TALK 10:59, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

knock knock: is this useful?
Hiya,

As some of you know from hanging out at Wikipedia WikiProject Endangered languages, I spend most of my time looking at things around the general region of the Formosan languages...

...but I happened across this, which looks like it may be up your alley. Sorry if it's a tiny bit dated: Proto-Uto-Aztecan: A Community of Cultivators in Central Mexico? Jane H. Hill

American Anthropologist December 2001, Vol. 103, No. 4, pp. 913-934

Concepts: cultivation, Community, history, speakers, protolanguage, spread, maize cultivation, chronology, northward.

"Authorities on the origin and history of Uto-Aztecan have held that speakers of the protolanguage were foragers who lived in upland regions of Arizona, New Mexico, and the adjacent areas of the Mexican states of Sonora and Chihuahua about 5,000 years ago. New lexical evidence supports a different view, that speakers of the protolanguage were maize cultivators. The Proto-Uto-Aztecan speech community was probably located in Mesoamerica and spread northward into the present range because of demographic pressure associated with cultivation. The chronology for the spread and differentiation of the family should then correspond to the chronology for the northward spread of maize cultivation from Mesoamerica into the U.S. Southwest, between 4500 and 3000 B.P. [Uto-Aztecan, cultivation, Mesoamerican, historical linguistics, migration]" Later --Ling.Nut 16:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Very interesting, Ling. Thanks for the tip and keep the info coming.  Madman 13:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

...plus a request for help...
Hi again,

Hope the thread I just posted immediately above is useful...
 * (I'm deleting the request for help I orig. placed here... I think the issue is resolved... Thanks!!) --Ling.Nut 19:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

award
·Maunus· · ƛ · 09:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it was a long hard road, and you did most of the hauling, Maunus. Congratulations!!  I'll look forward to seeing it on the Main Page one day. Madman 13:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, congrads to you Maunus and all the other's who contributed greatly to the article - job well done!, especially getting through that review process. So... what's the next article we'll work on to get to FA status? -- Oaxaca dan 15:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes &mdash; congrats!! --Ling.Nut 18:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It was a long haul, but with the right outcome in the end- deserved congrats to all!
 * Re dan's comments, I agree that it would be good to identify another (or another couple) of collaboration candidates to work towards FA. Maybe one of the 19 current B-class Top-importance articles, (or in any event an article or article which is not that far off). It would be great to have the main Mesoamerica or one of the high-profile Aztec, Olmec or Maya civilization etc articles worked to FA, but as we've seen broad topics need a lot of tweaking to get right. Suggestions, anyone?  --cjllw |  TALK  09:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I suggest Totonac or Totonacan languages! .. Oh wait... I'm not a member of the WP ... :-) --Ling.Nut 00:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Maya women needs your help
Maya women has been tagged "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards" since November 2005. "The oldest cleanup requests are the highest priority, to prevent embarrassing problems from going unfixed for an indefinite length of time". Anybody care to take a look at this? Thanks. -- Writtenonsand 05:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Alas you are quite right, and this one has been in need of attention ever since it was rescued from AfD. Will see what can be done about it over the next few weeks.--cjllw | TALK  01:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe this article should be moved to Women in ancient Maya or perhaps the more verbose Women in ancient Mayan civilization. Objections? --Ling.Nut 01:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree - the name should be changed to something like that - alternatively, the content could be merged with Gender roles in Mesoamerica, with the Maya women section acting as a sub-section within the overall article. If not, I think Women in ancient Maya civilization would be most appropriate.  -- Oaxaca dan 01:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree a title change is in order. I'd been thinking along the lines of Women in pre-Columbian Maya society, or perhaps dropping the 'pre-Columbian' since it'd be likely to include data from Colonial-era sources.
 * Upmerging into Gender roles in Mesoamerica could also work, although I think there's scope enough to justify a separate article (in any case there should be cross-referencing between them). Presently this latter article is a bit of a misnomer as it confines itself to discussion of women's roles only- it could be expanded for example to discuss the concept of gender itself in pre-Columbian societies.--cjllw | TALK  02:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia offer on Linguist List

 * Linguist List Vote: To Wiki or Not to Wiki
 * Offers grad student to work on linguistic articles in WP if their fund-raising collects $6000 in the next 48 hours
 * Must use special "Wikipedia offer" donation page: http://linguistlist.org/donation/fund-drive2007/wikipedia/
 * Calls WikiProject Linguistics "...quite dormant and not really organized"; ; makes no mention of WP:ENLANG, WP:MESO or other WikiProjects actively involved in languages/linguistics articles.
 * Ling.Nut 00:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, most interesting, Ling.Nut. Maybe you or someone with a subscription to that list could point them in the right direction?--cjllw | TALK  01:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Quite silly IMO. Why not just ask the members to become editors instead ofaking them to pay for a "proffesional editor" to do it for them.·Maunus· · ƛ · 08:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Pochteca
Apologies if this isn’t the correct means or place for this. I’ve not contributed to wikipedia pages before.

Offer to help expand the page: I’ve just generated a fantasy Pochteca page for Thomas Harlan’s Sixth Sun sf series, and as a result have gathered a fair bit of historical material. If it would help, I’d be willing to expand the Wikipedia page with the genuine material. --Norsktrad 17:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No need to ask - go ahead and add to the article, just remember to cite your sources. happy editing.·Maunus· · ƛ · 18:09, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The sources would be a number of books & Spanish/French Nahuatl translation sites based on the Florentine Codex. If what I put on the page isn't suitable it can always be rolled back. Thanks. --Norsktrad 17:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Norsktrad. It would be better if you were to list the specific sources and editions you have used in a ==References== section on the article page, together with specific footnoted citations against specific bits of info- since various sources may differ on the details. If you are unsure how to do this, you can just start with providing a bulleted list of the sources in the article or on the talk pg, and we'd be happy to help tidy it up.--cjllw | TALK  01:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Mesoamerican archaeology and Latter Day Saint scholars
Brigham Young University has sponsored (under the banner of the New World Archaeological Foundation, or NWAF) a large number of archaeological excavations in Mesoamerica with a focus on the Mesoamerican time period known as the Preclassic (earlier than c. AD 200). I have added the article Archaeology and the Book of Mormon to this wikiproject and I would encourage contributions from any editors who are particularly familiar with the state of archaeological research in Mesoamerica. - Authalic 18:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting article, Authalic. I added an image of a Mesamerican wheeled figurine to it, which adds a bit of pizazz and demonstrates a point the article was trying to make.  Do you have any references for the Olmec-as-Jaredite theory?  We could use a bit more information and references at Olmec alternative origin speculations.  Thanks, Madman 03:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please also see the similar article Limited geography model (Book of Mormon) - Authalic 06:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Madman, thanks for adding the photo - it's great! I think that I might be able to dig up some more information and references for you on the Olmec-as-Jaredite theory given a little time. Regards, Bochica 13:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Olmec-as-Jaredite theory seems to be implicitly accepted by several LDS scholars... John L. Sorenson probably had a lot to do with furthering the theory in his book "An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon." It's hard to find one solid reference that says "I think the Olmecs were the Jaredites," but several articles on Farms allude to this theory. Once such article by John L. Sorenson is When Lehi's Pary Arrived in the Land, Did They Find Others There? on page 23:
 * "[La Venta] was one of the great centers of Olmec civilization, whose distribution and dates remind us of Jaredite society."
 * "[Stela 3] is thought to date to about 600 B.C., or a little later, at or just after the late Olmec (Jaredite?) inhabitants abandoned the site."
 * Since the general history of the Olmecs (when we think it might have come to prominence and when it suddenly died out) seems to match roughly with the Jaredite record in Ether several LDS scholars have looked for (and some believe they've found) somewhat compelling evidence for the relationship. Hope that helps. gdavies 20:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much, G L. I have added this material to the Olmec alternative origin speculations along with a painting-kinda I made of the noted face from La Venta Stela 3. Madman 05:38, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposed TfD on Ethnic groups infobox

 * If you have a moment, please look at: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups
 * Thanks! Ling.Nut 16:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Aztec cuisine
I've started a new article on Aztec cuisine which might be of interest to the project.

Peter Isotalo 14:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Peter- a useful addition in an area till now poorly covered, most impressive!--cjllw ʘ  TALK 01:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Latin American Studies
I've been creating a bunch of pages (mostly stubs) on Latin American Studies: see Category:Latin American studies. Would anyone be interested in helping me add to these and fleshing them out? Is there another good place to look for volunteers? --Jbmurray 18:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if I should take the fact that I haven't heard any response to this suggestion to mean that this project is at least temporarily dormant? --Jbmurray 09:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Jbmurray. No, the WP:MESO project here is quite active, it's just that we've few hands 'on regular active duty' at the moment, and we tend to cycle through in fits and starts. There's a growing list of 900-odd articles to tender, and as often as not one can get bogged down in some corner for a time. So apologies for any tardiness.
 * I for one did notice your addition of that category to the fold, and will help out where possible and time permits. You could also try at WP Central America, but you may find that a number of participants there are also participants here.--cjllw ʘ  TALK 14:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Yes, I put similar notes at both the Central American and the South American Project pages (with no response to date).  I should say I'm quite impressed with what you've done with the Mesoamerican project to date.  It would be nice to get something similar going for Latin America as a whole.  --Jbmurray 14:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You'd be welcome to give it a shot. However, from what I've seen projects which have large scopes can find it hard to gain momentum, particularly if there are pre-existing ones on topics within that scope. One at the Latin America level might be best to function in some kind of coordinating fashion between the 'child' wikiprojects, rather than duplicate some project structures that may already be in place or under development.
 * Still, might be worth a try- you could propose the Lat.Am. project at WikiProject proposals, and see what kind of interest it generates.--cjllw ʘ  TALK 23:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * ps. I've renamed that LA studies category to, following usual wikipedia naming conventions which avoid unnecessary capitalisations.--cjllw ʘ  TALK 03:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I thought that before proposing a whole project, it might be an idea to have a couple more people who worry away at the topic bit by bit, creating stubs and thinking about what else might need to be done.  I've been reorganizing the categories for Category:Latin American literature and Category: Latin American cinema, for instance.  Latin American literature is especially badly served by Wikpedia, if you ask me.  Anyhow.  Hmmm.  We'll see.  --Jbmurray 06:34, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Mayan languages to appear on main page on May 21
The date is set for Mayan languages to appear on the main page on May 21! Finally we are harvesting the fruits of our labour! Maunus (talk • contribs) 06:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC).


 * Hey, that's great news! Would be good to have a few WP:MESO members & associates on standby that day to watch over the article and others linked conspicuously from it- as well as a sharp increase in vandalism (unfortunately), there'll no doubt be a range of mostly well-intentioned edits during and for several days after its appearance.--cjllw ʘ  TALK 09:03, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey congrats on the main page article! Looks good! Ling.Nut 13:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Columbian
An obviously well-intentioned editor is confused about some referencing questions etc. This article is not included in WP:MESO, but is related... what wikiproject should it be in anyhow? Anyhow, despite my obvious Wikipedia addiction ;-) I really really really really should be studying for prelims. Can someone help out with Pre-Columbian? thanks! Ling.Nut 13:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Ling.Nut- the past week or so I think Maunus has been able to give them some assistance. There was, for a brief period last year, a WikiProject Pre-Columbian itself, but that never really got off the ground and has since been deactivated/deleted. I've added the WP:MESO proj banner to that article's talkpg to keep it under more direct monitoring from here- I don't think there's any other active wikiproject, except possibly WP:IPNA, that would care about it much, and in any case I think a few WP:MESOnites and fellow travellers keep an occasional eye on that article anyways- so no problem to add it to the scope.
 * ...not that you'll be reading this for a while, as no doubt you are diligently bunkered down for your prelims... ;-) best of luck!--cjllw  ʘ  TALK 15:07, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

quality scale ratings: motivation
I rewrote the ixchel article. The present quality rating is 'start class'. It would be a great help if I knew what led to its present low rating and on which points it should be improved. retal77.162.130.139 13:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Retal. The WP:MESO project's article assessment ratings are perhaps more art than science in their implementation; there's an attempt to explain what the relative settings are supposed to mean at WP:MESO/RATE. Also, it sometimes just takes a little while before someone gets around to reassessing an article after it undergoes a rewrite or expansion. In the particular case of Ixchel, it's greatly improved from earlier versions, and I've now happily bumped up the quality rating from start (ie, more than a stub but generally lacking tidy prose, references, coverage of key aspects, containing questionable material, or some combination of these) to B (does an OK job of covering the main aspects, has at least some references, mostly free of error and inconsistency, etc). I guess the way it's been used around here, 'B-class' encompasses a reasonably wide range, & maybe we should tighten it up a little - but that's probably for another day...--cjllw  ʘ  TALK 15:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Retal77.162.130.139 19:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)