Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Slovakia/Archive 2

Lobby (band)
This article on a Slovakian band recently came through AfD with a result of no consensus, as we're not yet able to fully determine if it meets notability guidelines for WP:MUSIC. As there are few sources to be found in English, we can't really be sure. I was able to find a contributor to your project to help interpret the one located source (thank you again, MarkBA), but the article would benefit greatly by contributions from editors who might be able to help solidly determine whether or not it qualifies, including by finding more relevant sourcing. If you'd like to help out, it would be appreciated. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

West Slavic WikiProject
I know in many aspects the different editors from West Slavic nations have not seen eye to eye, and the community has suffered due to childish naming disputes that usually deteriorate into edit wars. That's why, in the interest of common West Slavic participation on Wikipedia I have proposed a West Slavic WikiProject, that would aim and try to bridge the gaps between us and strive for fair representation of West Slavic interests, be they Slovak, Czech, Polish or Sorbian on the English Wikipedia, as well as effective multilateral debates on a multitude of contentious articles. So, just have a look and voice your support if you want. +Hexagon1 (t) 23:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

This is really bad
I have just noticed that user Rembaoud has recently put quite a lot of Hungarian names into articles about Slovaks: Hlinka, Fulla, Safarik, Benka, Gasparovic, Husak, Sokol, Stur, Hattala, Kollar... As ocassional editor only I have no experience, time and energy to fight this, but seeing the long time ongoing problems between "Slovak" and "Hungarian" editors I think the situation is already ripe for higher level mediation. --Ruziklan (talk) 08:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you tried just leaving him a friendly note? The Dominator (talk) 13:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have already pointed him to WP:NCGN, but he either misread this convention or ignored it. I have reverted all his edits against the naming convention, but it would be nice if someone else can talk to him because he has apparently received an e-mail discrediting me as an editor. More generally, if you find any disruptive edit, you can just undo it, reverting to the last version before the edit was made. It is the matter of few seconds. There are only few people with Slovakia-related articles on their watchlists, so every hand is welcome. Have a nice day, both of you. Tankred (talk) 14:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can say from months of this controversy tracking, it is running for a long time on various levels and many pages, usually on Slovak subjects. Friendly words very probably would not help as
 * 1. user Rembaoud was created only on March 29th, 2008
 * 2. he immediately started editing articles on historic Slovak people (see diff of his third edit only) by updating local names not in line with WP:NCGN
 * 3. after reverts he redid edits with adding "WP:IGNORE - anachronisms fixed, deleting this is vandalism" to edit summaries, something e.g. I never dared within my about 3 years as Wikipedian (see this diff)
 * I believe simple reverting all this is not enough as a solution, you can just run into 3-reverts trouble here in the long term. You know well, Tankred, people who consistently do similar edits, so I would advise seeking higher level of dispute resolution. Of course, you may well end up in the situation that their approach is judged ok, but I believe you apply WP:NCGN well and you should "win" the case. --Ruziklan (talk) 15:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You are totally correct, but I do not have enough energy to go through a lengthy and often inefficient process of dispute resolution. I am also afraid that in case we win this case, another account with the same behavior will appear a day after the case is closed. Moreover, there is a small, but very active group of Hungarian editors, who usually support each other in disputes with non-Hungarian editors. Who wants to deal with them? Tankred (talk) 20:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, I suggest taking this one to WP:ANI. Seems like trouble. The Dominator (talk) 22:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, it seems like trouble, it goes on for a long time, Tankred could say more as he fights this. He can name users acting like this. See e.g. the changes just made by Hobartimus that are very similar to diffs of user Rembaoud above. Still the same things... does anybody know some admin or should we post to noticeboard after all? --Ruziklan (talk) 07:02, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, quite a lot what has been written above is correct, if I have to jump in. To the disputes, that's what it is about - if you're going to question or complain about their actions, they will often try to discredit you or dismiss the report. This is ongoing for so long that I believe that without a continuous intervention of admins or whatever this won't be solved. One good example is this: when the former user VinceB was banned a year ago, other accounts emerged within few days to few weeks' time. However it goes, one is sure - it wastes time which could be spent better. Unfortunately I don't have the energy and nerves to deal with this alone, so any helping hand is appreciated. Just my 2¢. MarkBA what's up?/my mess 11:28, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Posted at WP:AN. The Dominator (talk) 13:25, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So we have this diff - total quick revert without any relevant argumentation despite detailed edit summary provided by me. I am off, cannot do more, I have other business to do. Not caring about that anymore. Please, can someone follow-up that to WP:AN or other relevant place? Bye. --Ruziklan (talk) 12:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry - detailed edit summary is here - I have not copied the link right the first time. --Ruziklan (talk) 12:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Ruziklan and The Dominator, thank you for being good citizens. Unfortunately, little willingness to help has been shown by the rest of the community and communication with some users has turned out to be fruitless. Here is my suggestion: If you come across a disruptive edit in the future, please just revert it. It is the matter of few seconds. You do not need to invest your valuable time and energy in communication with an author of such an edit or in filing reports at WP:ANI if you do not wish so. Even a simple random revert would help protect Wikipedia's content against vandalism. Thank you everyone for your help with Slovakia-related articles and happy editing! Tankred (talk) 15:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but probably you have understood my edits wrongly. They have nothing to do with being good citizen or not. I was trying to improve articles in the good faith and neutral fashion, considering all aspects known to me. But the way the discussion is led (or rather lack of it - charges and warnings from both sides as far as I can judge) has convinced me my time will be spent better somewhere else. In my view the best way forward would be to involve someone not yet involved, yet skilled in Wikipedia manners who could help things move forward. Surely that is not me. --Ruziklan (talk) 06:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I need to make a course correction here. I am extremely concerned by this practice of "just reverting" anything that is disagreed with. Further, I am concerned that editors are reverting, without participating at the article's talkpage. This practice of "no discussion" must stop.  In the future, if there are concerns about an article, editors must engage at the article's talkpage.  If editors continue reverting without engaging in discussion, you are risking being placed under ArbCom editing sanctions, and possibly having account access blocked.  --Elonka 11:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you read my first comment on this thread, Elonka? I tried to talk to that user because a new user might not be familiar with WP:NCGN. But he replied in an anatagonistic way. At the beginning of this thread, I asked other people to talk to him, since I was denigrated by some e-mail that Rembaoud received. Ruziklan used the article's talk page, providing a detailed explanation of his edits. His edits were reverted without any explanation by Hobartimus. Only after that I suggested reverting. Tankred (talk) 15:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mean "extended discussion" when you say "without any explanation" I'll get what you are saying here. Please do not force me to quote all of my edits that involve discussion with Ruziklan on the topic of List of Slovaks by making further false statements. Hobartimus (talk) 15:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Tankred, if anyone is receiving harassing emails, this is a serious matter, and could result in sanctions. Please feel free to forward such emails to me, at elonka@aol.com, so that I can examine them. Or if for some reason you are not comfortable sending the emails to me, there are other avenues available (see WP:HARASS). However, since I'm already familiar with the situation and the editors involved (or at least I'm trying to be), I may be the best first choice at the moment. --Elonka 01:01, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Pictures
I am taking a trip to Bratislava in a couple weeks in order to walk the streets my great-grandparents did and wanted to offer my services if anyone has a photo they need for an article. Let me know and I'll be happy to oblige if possible. Cheers! Redfarmer (talk) 12:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Assuming you are saying the truth, well, we could always use more photos even from locations which have already some but of course, there are some which don't have anything at all. If requested, I'll gladly provide locations which could use something. MarkBA what's up?/my mess 13:08, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That will work. I'm going to be there starting 15 April and I'm going to want to take photos anyways...this will give me a purpose in taking photos. Redfarmer (talk) 13:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

List of Slovaks
List of Slovaks has been moved to List of Slovakians. If you want to correct the name, feel free to move it back. I do not have any energy left after all the recent troubles with some of our Hungarian friends. If they want to move Bratislava to Pozsony (as they did in the infobox of Slovakia), I do not care anymore. Apparently it is no vandalism. I have done a lot of work on Slovakia-related articles in the last three years, but I cannot watch over all of them. I cannot care less if they go to Hell. Perhaps it is already time to move on and leave this place. Good luck to all the remaining editors writing about Slovakia. Tankred (talk) 00:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Tankred, there's no need to leave the Wiki based on one minor disagreement. If I may however defend myself from your assumptions of bad faith, let me briefly explain my rationale for moving the page: in English, the word "Slovak" refers primarily to an ethnic Slovak,, "Slovakian" on the other hand refers primarily to nationality and/or citizenship (i.e. a Slovakian need not necessarily be an ethnic Slovak.) Given that the list in question includes quite a lot of people of ethnicities other than Slovak (but who are/were, nonetheless, closely connected to Slovakia) I considered that "Slovakian" rather than "Slovak" would simply be a more accurate title, less inclined to possibly mislead, and less likely to cause endless flame wars on the talk page. I assure you I'm not out to subversively retake Slovakia for some sort of Greater Hungary of the cybersphere. I have started a section on the List of Slovak/ians talk page, I am open to opinions from all sides. (I am NOT, however, open to arguments from either side that invoke the ethnicity or nationality of opposing debaters as a relevant point in the discussion. The workings of MY brain are not determined by the haplotypes of my Magyar mitochondria.) K. Lásztocska talk 04:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, please don't leave Tankred, we've lost MarkBA and Tulkolahten has expressed dissatisfaction and possible retirement, I wouldn't want to see the Czech and Slovakian community on en Wiki completely fall apart. As for the list, I am nuetral on the naming matter, "List of Slovaks" for the very simple reason that it's shorter, but "List of Slovakians" sounds more English, all in all it's just another dumb title dispute, an argument over one word that appears at the top of the page. The Dominator (talk) 04:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Although my English is not very good, "Slovaks" and "Slovakians" seem to be used interchangeably in English as far as I can tell. Personally, I have never found the nuance in connotation mentioned by K. Lásztocska. But if "Slovakians" refer to a broader category than Slovaks, I support her change by all means. Well, that change without any previous discussion on the talk page was just the last drop. I am seriously considering my retirement mostly because the community is unwilling to prevent User:Nmate from editing in a disruptive way and from attacking other editors and nations. I am also too tired after all those fights with User:Hobartimus, who reverts even simple copyediting if it comes from an editor that he does not like. The environment here is just too hostile and there are only a handful of active editors of Slovakia-related articles, who can help with maintenance. I cannot really write new articles (the activity I enjoy the most here) if I have to revert "uncivilized nomad Slav colonists" in the 14th-century Zilina three times a day. I am sorry, Wikipedia is a voluntary project and we are all motivated by some enjoyment taken from our creative work. For me, that enjoyment is gone, destroyed by few obnoxious chauvinists. I am not the first one. MarkBA and Jurohi (not to be mistaken for the banned Juro) have left for the exact same reasons. Good luck everyone. Maybe I will stop by from time to time and say hello. Tankred (talk) 18:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I'm sorry you feel that way and I would still like to urge you to stay, but if you feel that you're not enjoying yourself anymore, there's nothing I can do about that except to say goodbye and wish you the best. The Dominator (talk) 03:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Tankred I know exactly what you mean, I've retired before too. But the thing is there is no need to vocally retire and it is even slightly obnoxious to wave around your retirement in article disputes. Just leave the project alone until such time as you want to contribute again, no one is forcing you to stay (though you will be missed). In regards to this debate: Slovak and Slovakian are totally interchangeable and Slovak is the prevailing term as far as I can tell. I would support any proposed move back to List of Slovaks. +Hexagon1 (t) 07:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian disputes
To try and get a handle on the wide variety of disputes involving Hungarian and Slovakian editors, I have created a subpage in my userspace to try and centralize discussions. This is an experiment, as it is neither a mediation nor a Request for Comment, nor is it a random chat. I will be moderating the discussion as an administrator, and enforcing rules of civility to minimize disruption. This is an experiment, as part of my participation in the ArbCom-appointed Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars. I encourage all interested parties to post any concerns that they have on the talkpage, be they about disputed articles, or the behavior of other editors. You may also wish to simply add the page to your watchlist: User talk:Elonka/Hungarian-Slovakian experiment. Thanks, Elonka 06:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Ľudovít Lehen
Members of the WikiProject are asked to help ascertain the notability of Ľudovít Lehen at this AfD. Many thanks. --Dweller (talk) 13:43, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested
Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 14:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

new maps of czechoslovakia
I made a couple new maps of Czechoslovakia. They're quite easy to change, so please let me know if you have any suggestions. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 16:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  20:50, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 4344 articles are assigned to this project, of which 302, or 7.0%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-07-14.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place a template on your project page.

If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:15, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Slovakia
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)