Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Spin-off and main series

Just curious, by why is Sonic & the Secret Rings under "spin-offs" and not part of the main series?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.210.91.70 (talk) 00:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Because it is a spin-off and doesn't progress the main story at all.

I think it's still part of the main series. It keeps getting switched between spin-off and main series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hawkfrost18 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I have an issue with it being considered a spin-off, because to me, that conintates that the gameplay is completely diffrent compaired to the main series, while Secret Rings is very simular to the main series in that respect. The only thing that makes it spin-offish is it's story, which I believe isn't enough to denote it as a spin-off. It sould be considered part of the main series. A spin-off series is good enough for me. LightningLuigi (talk) 03:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

See {{Sonic games}} for the criteria. « ₣M₣ » 16:11, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Is the Chronology original research?

I'm suddenly reminded of the Legend of Zelda timeline attempt on Wikipedia... 208.101.152.167 14:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The information is based highly on fan based theories. Nothing in the chrono is officially stated to take place in the aforementioned article. Currently i've tried convincing them to remove the article until we have official (which would be never) and further prevent misleading fans into believing fan written nonsense (people get the idea that Wiki = reliable) but that hasn't occured so........I wouldn't take this page's word of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neofcon (talk • contribs)
You're right, Neofcon, the entire thing is original research...then the entire section should be deleted. Really, I don't know why I didn't mention this fact before when arguing with another user over whether Sonic Rush was canon or not, an arguement caused by the simple reason that the entire article is made of original research, and thus, that there is no definative answer to what is and is not canon. It should be deleted, no, must be deleted. Michael Mad 16:38, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Well when you think about it, people are trying to justify Sonic Advance being "canon" simply because the red tornado is in the game. Wasn't the point of Sonic advance supposed to be "nostalgia" for sonic fans and thus justify the usage of the red tornado? That right there tells you that sonic fans abuse wikipedia to justify their theories and make "them" right. The zelda timeline I think is much more difficult to figure out because virtually all the games have little to no connection to any game besides some cameos or references. Sonic has more connections and is based in the same exact time period with no alternating characters in different timelines but even then, nothing has been stated to be official in the series chronology and cannot be explained because there are so many contradictions in many theories, such as what superbub stated earlier about sonic cd with the metal sonic vs Tails theory, why would Robotnik use a complete model and then go with inferior models and then go straight back to an old plan that failed? Usually Robotnik isn't the type to repeat plans, but if he does, he throws a certain twist in there. Even then Sonic CD's placement can't be determined just upon that logic because that is "still just a theory" because thus far Robotnik hasn't been stated to not repeat plans and it shows with Sonic Battle and his "death Egg 2", but even in that game people question if it's legit, considering that it's more likely a spinoff, contradicts the storyline of Sonic Adventure 2, and doesn't affect any other games in the series besides Sonic Advance 3 which has a different version of Emerl and most likely takes place after Sonic Advance two and people takes that game into consideration with the inclusion for Cream who has appeared in Sonic Heroes and that game affects the other games with shadow's appearance. But even then, Sonic Heroes and the weakest storyline out of all the games and Cream's role has not affected the other characters in any way and has been the most insignificant character since then, having no importance in shadow the hedgehog or an appearance in 06 and I heard somewhere that cream was originally supposed to be just a character for Sonic X (which shows since her role in that show is much bigger than in the games) But even then Sonic Rush includes Cream and Blaze, and Cream had a decently sized role in that game and it affected Blaze, and with her appearance in 06, we COULD'VE said it was legit, but any connection found would be demolished with the inclusion of Silver and the "future" aspect and blaze having no interaction (or EVER being stated to be a queen/princess as in rush) leads to a huge issue, but here comes Rivals with Nega stating to also be from the future and knows silver as well, and silver is stated to be looking for blaze. Confused? I know, all these inconsistencies lead to a huge issue with chronology and therefore no amount of fanon theories can patch it up. Sonic team has butchered the story so much that it has thrown any logic it had out of the window (then again what is logical in a world of talking animals with xmen-like powers?) so its virtually IMPOSSIBLE to detail what takes place when and what actually COUNTS because each connection is contradicted with another connection and the cycle goes on with EVERY sonic game that gets released. Neofcon

The whole thing is original research by default - it doesn't have any sources, and I doubt there exists any (except for the obvious things like Sonic 2 being after Sonic 1). It's mostly patched together by fan view. Gurko 22:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Thus, it should be deleted. It has no sources, and probably never will. It is made up of original research. If nobody has any objections, I will be deleting it, today if possible. Michael Mad 10:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay then, nobody has objected, but since my preceding comment was only posted five hours ago, I'll wait a little longer. If nobody has made any reasonable objections by 12:00 (GMT) tommorrow(or the section hasn't been deleted already), I will delete the section. Michael Mad 17:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

As much as I dont object, Tails0600 might. Neofcon

Well, I hate to be cruel, but it's gone twelve and nobody has made a reasonable objection. It will be deleted, now! Michael Mad 12:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

It actually doesn't look half bad. The article is much shorter, something that is good. And everyone is right, there were no sources or anything. Sorry I didn't see the revisions for a while. Anyway, it looks much better now, that's the point. By the way, was this article ever nominated to be in the Wikipedia Release 0.7? Tails0600 04:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

reboot

didn't Sonic next gen serve as a reboot because Elise erased everything

.......yes, you can read about it on that page--Neofcon 16:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

God no, not a reboot. Only the events of that game were erased, not of prior Sonic games. Michael Mad 19:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh he meant the series? Hard to tell w/o the specifics and all..--Neofcon 21:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I can only imagine that he meant the series. His comment really wouldn't make sense otherwise. Michael Mad 11:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Well from a technical standpoint, sonic team DID say they wanted a "new beggining" or something of that nature, right? And considering 06 is hardly connected to previous games (no actual details that reference past games) i'd say it pretty much is a reboot. Not like it matters considering HALF the franchise is practically disconnected from each other anyways. --Neofcon 03:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, the name of the video game DOSE give it away that it is a reboot. I mean, the first sonic the headghog game ever was called (you guessed it!) Sonic the hedgehog. Theirfore, the new Sonic the headghog is like the first game in the 2nd generation of sonic the headghog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saprissy (talk • contribs) 16:46, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I honestly don't know where you all are getting your information but your all wrong. They didn't reboot the series. The reason the game is called "Sonic the Hedgehog" is because they wanted to make a tribute, due to it being Sonic's 15th Anniversary. Though the story doesn't tie in with previous games, there is still one thing that does. The fact that Shadow works for GUN now. At the end of the game, only the events of the game are erased. Everything else remains the same. This is also mentioned in the Sonic Rival games, where the Sonic characters don't know who Silver is. And one more thing. Wikipedia is not a forum. --Ryu (Talk | Contributions) 16:50, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Add as an external link?

Sonic Cult

I mean with all the research they provide, I think they could be good for references.--Neofcon 22:20, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure. It is a fansite, is it not? Then again, numerous Crash Bandicoot articles use Crash Mania, a fansite, as a source, while Tekken 6 uses SDTekken, another fansite, as a source. Unless there are any objections, or more reliable sources are available, you can go ahead and use Sonic Cult. Michael Mad 18:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Well michael mad, the GHZ is a fansite if im not mistaken....but (insert translated name of above person) I guess makes sense, despite the darn good info.--Neofcon 23:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Check WP:EL to see if the site meets its criteria.« ₣M₣ » 16:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Green Hill Zone.com

There's a site called www.theghz.com and part of the site is the museum. The museum shows pretty much the full history of the Sonic Series. Here is the cite[1] Unknown the Hedgehog 14:51, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Concept: Mobius

This site (http://concept-mobius.technoguild.com/) goes into quite considerable detail about the Sonic universe, including the games and characters, and attepts to place the games in a chronology. It may be worth checking out. RaceProUK (talk) 23:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Characters section proposition

I propose that the main characters' sections be fleshed out, and have minor characters deleted from this article. As it stands, a major character like Tails has as much detail as any of the Sonic Riders characters; this shouldn't be. My suggestions for characters to be kept and expanded upon are: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy Rose, Eggman, Shadow, Metal Sonic and possibly Silver. Get rid of the others.

What should happen:

  • Give each character a paragraph or two (or three)
    • Describe their basic roles in the games
    • A sentence or two about their basic personalities (stuff like favourite foods and perfect days doesn't fall into this category)
  • Who designed the characters would be good
  • Give the characters their own headings (you know, with the = signs)
  • Get rid of stuff like "However, Sonic and his friends always stand in his way. In many cases, his own plans ironically outdo himself." and "She is quite strong and smashes enemy forces down with her trusty Piko Piko Hammer."; remember this is an encyclopedia, not a cutsey write-up for your website.

I've tonight gotten rid of numerous gender-specific terms (such as "if the player loses a life, he starts again...") and converted the list of items obtainable from the boxes into prose, as is recommended. If a few people can get together and try to make this a well-written article with plenty of references, there's no reason this can't be featured in a month.

Come on, Sonic deserves it! ~~ Gromreaper(Talk)/(Cont) 15:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


Nah, the characters have their own pages to describe their roles and such. It's not really necessary to give more in-depth info when it's already there on seperate pages. Besides that, saying "minor" character in the sonic franchise has no baring these days, as such characters like Tails and knuckles have as big a role as simple chao do in these games. Mostly they have been moved down to "minor" status if you ask me.--Neofcon 00:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I think you may have missed my point. If you really want this article to be featured (you should, as every Wikipedia editor should feel about the articles they maintain), you're going to have to implement at least some of the suggestions I outlined above. Submit it at WP:FAC and it'll get shot down for lack of references and excessive character descriptions. The to-do list gives the already-featured Avatar: The Last Airbender as an example of what a featured article's "Characters" section should look like. It gives info about voice actors, a brief but well-written description of each character's personality and roles in the show. Naturally, their individual articles go into much greater detail, but a brief description is provided. We shouldn't expect people to click on Silver's article when they just want to know why he wants to kill Sonic. It should be said here, with a longer and more detailed description on his page. ~~ Gromreaper(Talk)/(Cont) 01:21, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Avatar is a tv show. It's SUPPOSED to describe characters as they are what make the story as story is what makes the show. Sonic games are just that. Video games. Articles explaining video game related information has to be more in-depth about video game details. Do you see street Fighter with detailed character descriptions? Oh wait they dont even HAVE a section about that. They leave those to their individual articles, just as with the sonic franchise and Mario franchise. The character section in the main article already gives a brief description about the characters in general but at least goes into further detail in their own articles, which is why it is not necessary to go any further in detail on the main article. You also have to realize that sonic characters are not anywhere NEAR as deep as "avatar" characters considering their plot statuses are extremely short and the majority of their roles in recent games are at best un-important, considering most of the games in the series is considered to have the least amount of impact in the overrall series, which means less character development (just about all sonic characters have little to no character development at best) and lesser over all impact on the series. --Neofcon 03:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, ok. Don't be a dick and be civil. I came here offering suggestions to improve the article, not asking to be patronised ("Oh wait they dont even HAVE a section about that). If you're so opposed to even the idea of a "characters" section, why haven't you deleted it from the article? Why is the Avatar series listed as an example to follow in the "to-do" list if you think it's a bad example to follow? I want to help make this a featured article, and I came here armed with the page as it stands the to-do list and very little else. Help me clean up the characters section or delete it entirely. ~~ Gromreaper(Talk)/(Cont) 06:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I apologize if I came off rude. Wiki users tend to put me off when it comes to sonic. Anywho, to answer your question, deleting the character's section would lead to future edit wars which is a waste of everyone's time, despite the fact that if individual character pages exist already, there is simply no need to be overly descriptive about it on the main game page (in reading some of your suggestions, they seemed a bit unnecessary, come on, individual headers along with the voice actor information all on one page? At most people would try to tink of ways of cleaning it up anyway) Anywho at most, the characters section already contains some of your suggestions anyway if you haven't seen it. May not be a long paragraph but hey, it still details it. Some of the characters dont have what you suggested such as personalities, but at most roles and personalities should really be all it contains. You can go ahead if you want, but other information like who designed them or who voices them, really just leave that to their character info pages. The portions where like say "she is quite strong and yadda yadda" describes their own natural abilities in games (which I believe is more than enough). But if you want, you can go ahead and add more personalities to those that dont already have them if you wish, or roles in games, or abilties, but the other bits I would suggest you leave out. Putting out that info and even more would lead to their own pages being useless in themselves or have people delete extra information which has been occuring lately (such as knuckles's appearances in other media)--Neofcon 15:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, looks like I misjudged my free time and I won't be able to work on this article right away, maybe in a month or two when things settle down a bit, I'll knuckle down and try to do my part to improve the article. And props to you, Neofcon, for being a decent guy once we worked out our differences. See you round sooner or later. ~~ Gromreaper(Talk)/(Cont) 02:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Meh I decided to shorten it a bit. --Neofcon 22:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Shadow, Rouge and especially the Chaotix are not even in that many games. Only Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Eggman are the main characters. pls to fix it

Sonic the Hedgehog article?

It strikes me that when people search for Sonic the Hedgehog, they are either looking for the character or the series. I purpose we change one of these to Sonic the Hedgehog (with nothing in parenthesis). Of course, this would require a massive change in many articles. We could still keep the information on the current Sonic the Hedgehog article, but it would be renamed Sonic the Hedgehog (disambiguation). Any thoughts on this? Has anybody suggested this before? Is it at all doable, or am I just being silly?

This idea is discussed under the same heading on Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog. Joiz A. Shmo 03:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Major/Minor Characters

Listen. DO NOT START going around editing the character section to fit "Major/Minor" statuses. I have shortened it to include ONLY A FEW CHARACTERS! If a character is not listed, it does NOT mean that they are not major, as I have taken that piece out to avoid this kind of cruft. Lets TRY to keep that section brief and not go on a full scale edit war.--Neofcon 20:24, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Well even if there are only to be "a few" characters on the list, then what says it should be these particular characters? After all, Shadow is (like it or not, i know i dont) a much more significant character in the series as a whole than, for instance, Metal Sonic. I personaly feel that if we only included Shadow to the current list then it would be perfectly acceptable. But, if others insist that Shadow should not be included, i think that it would actually be more appropriate to delete Amy and Metal Sonic as well, since that would leave the list with only the four true main characters from the Mega Drive games. The way the list is now, it includes a few "somewhat-major" characters (Amy and Metal) but not another equally "Somewhat-major" character (Shadow), which just seems unfitting. Rattis1 22:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say he shouldn't be on the list, but I dont want to see constant bickering about whether or not he should, or any other character. If you want, just add him back in, but please keep this to a minimum. Im not saying he's main or not, im trying to prevent further edit wars. --Neofcon 23:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Fine. Now that Shadow is back on the list were he belongs, we should just try to keep the list the way it is. Rattis1 23:49, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok...this isn't working. This guy keeps editing it back and forth and he's not gonna come to a compromise. --Neofcon 17:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok screw it. Rattis, you're on your own about that guy.--Neofcon 19:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Edits regarding DBZ

If anyone finds any edits comparing any sort of element of the sonic universe to the manga and anime television series Dragon Ball Z, you need to take them out. They are un-resourced original research and bare no importance to the articles rather than make the sonic franchise out to be a ripoff of this particular franchise.--Neofcon (talk) 00:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

--Ronnie42 (talk) 19:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)actually dbz has been linked to sonic for quite some time since the original developers were quite good friends

Sonic Rivals/Rush seprate stories

Eggman Nega's attitude toward Eggman was different than the same. I mean in Rush he was very friendly towards Eggman and works together but in Sonic Rivals he captured Eggman and in Rush he comes from a dimension but in Rivals he comes from the future. Does it mean that the Rival and Rush stories are seprate stories that don't relate? Oscar22 12:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Who knows, who really cares... Sega's not very good at this sort of thing if ya hadn't noticed. User:Radman622 07:50, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Where are the handheld Sonic games?

This is the main page for Sonic, yet there isn't any mentioning about the handheld games at all. I understand you can't put every game in the article, but you can at least put a link to the handheld games in the article. Since the handhelds are the place where the new 2d Sonic games being released. They hold a certain importance due new characters like Cream or new gameplay elements like the Tension or Tag Team. So I find it strange they are omitted from the text.84.30.180.198 (talk) 15:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Why not add every single game? We are talking about the video game series after all! I also think YOU should add the handheld games since you brought it up! If its that important to you then do it, I wont stop you and I'm sure no one else will either! Wiki Curse (talk) 01:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Sonic Adventure 3

Is this really in development —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.141.26.151 (talk) 02:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Sonic Unleashed was originally intended to be Sonic Adventure 3 early in its development. « ₣M₣ » 16:11, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

At least this one list

Hi. I know that we are trying to get the minimum on lists possible as well as much concise as possible too, but I was looking to find out what sonic games are part of the series and lookning at those paragraphs are really confusing. I think that turning that into a lint would be a much better way, and less confusing, to present. Can it be done? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soleaxes (talk • contribs) 00:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes it can be done! So why not do it!No ones stoping you!Wiki Curse (talk) 01:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Sonic attitude?

on Sonic stadium it says that there is a new game called sonic attitude for the DS? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.21.23.165 (talk) 03:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I think its highly unlikely,but if you can site a source thats relavent I'll back you up!Wiki Curse (talk) 01:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Series?

The video games section on the bottom of the article is all wrong. Two games isn't a series. I think it would be best if the Advance and Rush games were bundled together (as they are all developed by DIMPS, it could be named "DIMPS developed games"), all of the racing games should be bundled together (R, Rivals, Riders), the Game Gear games should have their own spot (12 games is a lot), and another for "Other". Right now everything is just way too confusing.

Oh yeah, and Waku Waku isn't an Edutainment game by really any stretch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.207.117.248 (talk) 07:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

mabye it is. It depends on your point of view. It's good though that you gave people something to think about.Reddashz (talk) 14:45, 25 October 2008 (UTC)Reddashz

Quick notice....

I was thinking of completely revamping all pages related to Sonic the hedgehog, the format and structure of most of the pages are quite messy and are in need of a clean up. I'm not going to delete any vital information, and I may move or create some new pages. Jezstar (talk) 06:43, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

birthplace

I was wondering: what happened to the info stating Sonic's birthplace as Christmas Island?74.193.217.105 (talk) 02:53, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Does Amy have a Super Transformation?

I really don't know if she does, some web sites have her in super form, but I don't know for real.Reddashz (talk) 14:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)Reddashz

Nope, probably some fan fiction there. Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 12:56, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Not in any sonic game I've ever played "Section Proposed for deletion" subject out of date by 1 year!Fakecatholic (talk) 20:41, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I herd that that Super Amy was in Sonic Advance 3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.47.212 (talk) 01:31, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Sonic 3D?

I'm confused as to why Sonic 3D is listed under spin-offs? IIRC the game was always marketed as a legitimate Sonic sequel and it features the traditional Sonic gameplay (albeit from an isometric 3D perspective). AFAIK the only reason not to include it as part of the main series is that it was developed by Traveller's Tales not Sonic Team, but that shouldn't be the only consideration surely? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.8.48.47 (talk) 08:50, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Co mingling stories...

The plotlines from the Archie Sonic Comics are inserted several times throughout this article. The sudden shift in topic is both confusing and irrelevant as it mixes narrative details from two separate media plotlines (the video game and the comic/cartoon mashup). I would suggest either removing these references entirely as the main focus of this article ought to be the main video game series and not various spinoff franchises, which already have their own articles. The comics and video games are two separate entities. --GeoVII (talk) 16:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Sonic & Knuckles is Sonic 4?

I would to question this part of the article:

Also, Sonic Crackers, a prototype of Knuckles' Chaotix, is an unfinished game concept demo for the Mega Drive/Genesis produced by Sega. It is available only as a ROM image which was released with or without the approval of Sega and can be found on the Internet. (As a ROM image, it can only be played on an emulator or on a real Mega Drive/Genesis with special third-party cartridge hardware. Therefore, it is clearly not a "regular" game, even if its incompleteness is overlooked.) Some people have identified Sonic Crackers as Sonic 4; however, it is generally recognized that Sonic & Knuckles is Sonic 4.

I have never heard someone try call 'Sonic Crackers' 'Sonic 4', same goes for S&K. I have usually seen S&K referred to as part of Sonic 3, since it was all one game to begin with and was later split. Also, citation needed here. Sonicjosh (talk) 15:38, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed the line about calling either game "Sonic 4". It's original research, or just wishful thinking. No Sonic game was officially titled Sonic 4 (beyond the walls of the Sega Megafortress, perhaps), it does not need to be mentioned. I would like to see the "Sonic Crackers" section cleaned up a little, though. Gpia7r (talk) 19:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

NPOV

The reception section has a real pro-sonic attitude. I know of many people who dislike the new sonic games such as http://www.screwattack.com/node/6715 75.72.25.219 (talk) 01:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree! I suggest you make required changes if needed!Fakecatholic (talk) 20:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay! i'll get started 75.72.25.219 (talk) 00:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

so um (same guy) was that enough? 75.72.25.219 (talk) 23:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Tighter Restrictions needed!

Do to the fact the sonic series article has been divided into to many sections I propose placing the following restrictions on this article:

1.Block IP addresses with a history of vandalism from making changes to the discussion page and keep sonic articles in general on a permanent watch list for possible vandalism.

2.Require anyone new who has an account to be temporaily restrained from editing the sonic series article for no less then one week to give them time to study and learn wikipedia's requirments.

So let us put it to a vote. If in favor say below this section "In Favor" if not say "Not in Favor".Fakecatholic (talk) 20:38, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

What is the matter with all of you? Would you prefer that people abuse this article and make it out to be a joke or do you actually want improvements! The Choice is yours!Fakecatholic (talk) 16:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems that you're new to Wikipedia so I have to explain that Wikipedia doesn't work like that. First Wikipedia is not a democracy running off majority voting, we work by consensus building (read Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion). Second your proposals run contrary to Wikipedia being the "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit", are against its Blocking Policy and are impossible to do anyway since the ability to block IPs and editing accounts from individual pages doesn't exist - blocks are all or nothing. Also every registered editing account has its own watchlist that the editor maintains. I posted essentially the same thing on your Restrictions Needed on Sonic Articles! on Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog (character) with only a few differences. Thanks. CIGraphix (talk) 18:59, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Chaos Emeralds

Since The Chaos Emeralds Play a Major part in Sonic the Headghog games(and also in some other games), I think it is a good idea that the Chaos Emeralds has it's own page. Their is so much information about the Chaos Emeralds, one paragraph is just too much! All in favor click Talk.(talk) 17:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Not at all. Chaos Emeralds exist in Sonic Games. This is a Sonic series page. It has a section, and there's little to no more information needed to be said about them outside of their respective game pages. Gpia7r (talk) 17:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the Chaos Emeralds are in more than just Sonic the Headghog is the main point I tring to come out with.

They are? Mokoniki | talk 17:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

new sonic game for 2011?

hey i heard sega are planning to make a sonic game for Sonic's 20th anniversary —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonicfan2019 (talk • contribs) 09:33, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Find out at the upcoming E3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.212.84 (talk) 01:24, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Better title?

I think that moving to Sonic (series) would make more sense; I mean, after all, we've had Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Advance, Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Mega Collection, Sonic Gems Collection, Sonic Classic Collection, Sonic Rivals, Sonic Rivals 2, etc. It'd be like calling the Mario series the "Super Mario Bros. series". - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:57, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I understand the desire for consistancy, but I'm not feeling this one... the Mario series star existed before the "Bros" and before the "Super" aspect and the character is nearly a first name celebrity (the video game equivalent to Mickey, Elvis, Beyonce, Madonna, Oprah); while Sonic has always been "Sonic the Hedgehog" - even every single one of the games you listed that omit "the Hedgehog" from the title still reference the full name somewhere (manual, cutscene, etc), and "Sonic" is much more generic of a name than "Mario" (sound waves, the basketball team) and the character doesn't seem to be a first name celebrity on par with Mario. So I'm skeptical here, but not unmovable. CIGraphix (talk) 22:27, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
That's really an OR way to look at this. It may be identifiable, and it may be identified as the first name for the game, but it's definitely not the most common. To give the series title to a title that has been used in only three new games in three generations is silly. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 22:30, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
I think nearly all attempts by WP editors to name an overall series boil down to OR. The only way for all OR to be dropped is to find a reliable source that says "Sonic series" or "Sonic the Hedgehog series" without a conflicting equally reliable source ever turning up (non-official reliable sources could conflict, actually so can offical Sega sources - the whole thing can be a real mess). CIGraphix (talk) 22:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
It's not OR, it's using the common name found. If we found two sources that call the series Sonic and the series Sonic the Hedgehog, it's better to call it Sonic because it's shorter and more easily identifiable by more people. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Bringing this up again. Since the title of "Sonic the Hedgehog" is very sparingly used - the latest usage is in a "retro throwback" - I really advise that we not call it this. Using Mario as an example, the video game that defined the series was Super Mario Bros., and up until SM64 [known as SMB4 in Japan], all main-line Mario titles were known as Super Mario Bros. Adding to this, we see two new titles recently which use the title of Super Mario Bros. However, because the series has so many other games that are not known as Super Mario Bros., the series article is simply Mario. Similarly, since Sonic, throughout its history, typically is known as "Sonic [blank]" or something to that effect, using the title of the series-defining game seems silly. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:50, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Units shipped

Prior to my edit, the article said that 140 million units had shipped. The source provided says only 50 million. I've corrected the figure, but the data is out-of-date. Perhaps an alternative could be found...? Mephistophelian (talk) 01:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Over 10 million huh?

Mario & Sonic didn't Sell Over 10 Million, it Sold over 10 Million units But according to high selling Wii titles it states "Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million) " it seems some sonic Fan is trying to make the sonic games look like they sold millions, i know they do that because i used to be like them also sonic unleashed sold 2 million and not 5 million as they claim it to be, either there miss reading something or there just trying to make sonic look big.

oh and the sonic franchise overall only sold 50 million, its decreasing in the top selling franchise's from 13th to 16th to now 18th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.212.84 (talk) 01:23, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Mario & Sonic is a multi-console game, so DS sales must be counted. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:47, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Sonic unleashed did not sell over 6 million, the sales are 2.45 million, someone is reading the japan sales wrong, there sales in yen is different to dollars/pounds. and olympic game didnt sell over 10 million , if it did it would be in the top Wii selling list but in every list of top selling Wii titles its not included, DS sales too are only 2 million. hence why u dont see DS olympic games in the sales charts too. people need to research first before posting high fake numbers for sonic. sorry if i seem rude on this topic, its just misleading people to think the games sold that much when they havent if they did it would be in the charts in sales which are shown in magazines etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.212.216 (talk) 13:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

This is the top 15 best selling Wii titles as u can see Mario and sonic is at 13th if it had 10 million why isnt it in 8th, but its because its only sold 3.4 million.

1. Wii Sports (63.46 million) 2. Wii Play (27.38 million) 3. Wii Fit (22.61 million) 4. Mario Kart Wii (22.55 million) 5. Wii Sports Resort (16.14 million) 6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (14.70 million) 7. Wii Fit Plus (12.65 million) 8. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (9.48 million) 9. Super Mario Galaxy (8.02 million) 10. Mario Party 8 (7.6 million) 11. Link's Crossbow Training (4.80 million) 12. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.52 million) 13. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million) 14. Animal Crossing: City Folk (3.38 million) 15. Wii Music (2.65 million) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.212.216 (talk) 14:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Rouge & Blaze: major vs minor

Anonymous editor, 67.184.153.255, has been edit warring over the major or minor status of the characters Rouge and Blaze ([2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]). I am creating this talk thread as a final good faith effort to persuade this editor to discuss their desired changes. I have reverted to the original text until this is concluded. CIGraphix (talk) 04:18, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Super Transformations

Let it be know that Sonic is not the only one that can turn other beings to their super transformation... someone please remove that line out of the page Others that transform by themselves:

Tails: Sonic 3 Knuckles: Sonic 2+3 Shadow: Shadow the Hedgehog Saprissy (talk) 23:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

How about this?

http://www.gamesradar.com/wii/f/the-rise-fall-and-deafening-crash-of-sonic-the-hedgehog/a-2008040815587501088 --94.246.150.68 (talk) 12:01, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Manehead, 18 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

The "Music" section has an incorrect link to the game series "Ys"

The link Ys/Streets of Rage

should be changed to Ys_(series)/Streets of Rage

Manehead (talk) 16:11, 18 January 2011 (UTC)


Done. Thank you for spotting and pointing it out.  Hazard-SJ  ±  00:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

References

As I am going through the article for a copy-edit, I am noticing that the games section is missing quite a bit in the area of references. With the refs, it could be expanded a bit more I think. Unfortunately, that expansion itself may make it a bit unwieldy, and so I think we might want to consider some options for that section. Any ideas? I also think that it might be useful to call it History instead of video games. I will change it, but please if someone doesn't agree, feel free to let me know and change it back. I am not normally in the video games articles, so I may be missing something. :) -Pax85 (talk) 04:32, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Part of the reason there's a lack of references is because until a few weeks ago, it was mostly just lists and bulletpoints. It wasn't until recently that I turned it into paragraph form, and then MathMaven copy-edited a bunch of that...but it was such an undertaking we both seemingly lost interest after a while. Sergecross73 msg me 14:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I have been working on expanding the article, starting with the core Sonic titles on the Genesis, which I have notably expanded. Believe me, I still have interest in this article; I hope that it shall achieve FA someday. —MathMaven (talk ∫ edits) 00:42, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Some thoughts after the copy-edit

Well, I seem to have finished going through the article. I usually recommend a second go-through by another pair of eyes sometime, especially if there is going to be an upcoming review. That being said, there were a couple of things that I noticed:

  1. There are large sections that have few or no references (I mentioned that above).
  2. Some parts of the article seem very list-y, and lack good, flowing prose. I think it would be beneficial (before the next copy-edit perhaps) if someone very familiar with the series could go through and beef-up the prose a bit, make it a bit more lively. I would try, but the last time I played a Sonic game was on the Genesis. :)

If you have any questions, comments, or complaints about any of my edits, please do tell me! I would love to see this article promoted some day as well... -Pax85 (talk) 06:48, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Mighty the Armadillo

Didn't Mighty the Armadillo had a page?

PS.:Reply soon PLZ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.163.25.111 (talk) 00:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but if it did, it probably got deleted because he'd lack notability through reliable sources. Or in layman terms, he doesn't get much attention by the video gaming press. Sergecross73 msg me 01:43, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Silver's page

Why doesn't Silver have a page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.47.212 (talk) 02:16, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Probably because there isn't enough reliable, third party sources providing information on him for him to have enough notability. Sergecross73 msg me 02:21, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
He been in a good bit of games,and if you go to the Sonic News Network you can see the info they have about him,I'm user Tailsman67. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.47.212 (talk) 02:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
I realize he's been in a lot of games, but he's only been the main focus of one game (Sonic 06). And "Sonic News Network" probably isn't a wikipedia reliable source because, judging by that name, it's a fansite. A reliable source, for example, would be something from Gamespot, IGN, Joystiq, etc. Sergecross73 msg me 12:43, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Doesn't SEGA have a website? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.47.212 (talk) 13:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Yes, like any modern company, they do. Sergecross73 msg me 13:35, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
I will think of something else.~74.163.16.27~-Tailsman67 of Sonic News Network and others

Item box

Who deleted the stuff I wrote about the item box?~74.163.16.27~-Tailsman6767 of Sonic News Network and otherstalk —Preceding undated comment added 16:05, 24 May 2011 (UTC).

More Canceled games

I heard that there were more canceled games,like Sonic 3D and Sister Sonic(a game about Sonic's sister). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.51.113 (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Have a source for these games? Sister Sonic is almost definitely fake. Sonic 3D could refer to a couple of things, but probably not anything that isn't already included... Sergecross73 msg me 19:04, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
I saw the letter about Sister Sonic get canceled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.51.113 (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Uh...care to be more specific? Sergecross73 msg me 20:27, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
Sister Sonic was created by Sega Falcom,and was canceled in 1993,[| here is the article],link doesn't work just type in Sister Sonic in the search bar,oh and about Sonic 3D it was called Sonic Saturn here is are two pictures[| This] and [| this].
I was aware of Sonic 3D, just not as that name. I'm not sure if it was ever going to be it's own game, but rather, a minigame for the Saturn version of Sonic 3D Blast. If it was ever to be it's own game, it was for a very very brief period. Probably doesn't warrant inclusion. As far as Sister Sonic goes, I can't believe I have never heard of that. However, you'll want more of a Wikipedia-standard reliable source if it's to be put in the article. Fansites (ie Sonic Retro) are usually frowned upon because it's just a group of random people with no supervision or editorial insight, versus websites like IGN or Gamespot. Sergecross73 msg me 23:38, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

If what I read is correct, "Sister Sonic" was going to be a conversion of the Sega Falcom game Popfull Mail for overseas markets. Fans of that game objected, of course, and so Popfull Mail was released as it was in overseas markets. 68.228.177.224 (talk) 01:47, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Sonic the Hedgehog 3

Sonic 3 was removed from the Mega Drive/Genesis section! Who did it? Alonso Torrejon (talk) 14:08, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Looks like a Winxclub93 did, probably by accident, when messing around with references. It's been restored though. Thanks for the heads up. Sergecross73 msg me 14:27, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Please do not add an IOS section

Please stop adding a section for I-Pods/I-Phones at the Sonic Series article. The article doesn't list every single time a classic Sonic game is ported to another system because...it happens a ton, and it definitely clutters the article and makes it almost unreadable. The article just lists the original system the game was released on, unless it was some sort of remake or alteration. (Like Sonic Generations or Sonic Jam.) IOS isn't being singled out, as if we listed every rerelease, there'd be an endless list of PC, Virtual Console, XBox Live, etc entries as well.

If Sonic ever gets an exclusive IOS game, (like if they made an iSonic and it was a legitimate game, and not some App or something.) then it'd be different, but it should stay this way until it gets actual original game content. Thanks. Sergecross73 msg me 19:37, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Sales

Can other editors please keep on top of the sales section, this is a common place for vandalism. I'm considering removing it from the page.--SexyKick 06:55, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

As you may have guessed by this discussion page and the articles edit history, I maintain the article a lot. I agree, it does tend to be vandalized a lot, and I'll try to keep an eye on it. Sometime last week I went through and removed a bunch of unsourced entries, and fixed a bunch of them that were altered without a source to verify it, but I had forgotten to finish doing that up until you wrote this. But by all means, remove any unsourced ones or ones you think are sketchy, and it can be added back with an appropriate source in the future. Sergecross73 msg me 13:43, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Open World

I think stand for everybody,when I say Sonic games starting from Sonic Adventures is open world(not Generations,yes very much Unleash,cause you go around world). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.62.146 (talk) 18:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

What about it? Sergecross73 msg me 18:50, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah never thought about that,add a category.184.44.129.253 (talk) 20:19, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Provide a source before adding that. I don't think you understand what is typically called "open-world". That's usually in reference to expansive games like GTA 4 or Skyrim. No Sonic game is anywhere near that. Sergecross73 msg me 00:07, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Sorry late:Really I played Sonic 06 and it seems OW.184.44.129.253 (talk) 00:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Provide a reliable source, or it doesn't go in. Simple as that. Sergecross73 msg me 00:12, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Hedgehog Engine

Can We May Be Give The Hedgehog Engine A Page or Something?184.44.131.140 (talk) 19:16, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Is there really that much to be said about it? Sergecross73 msg me 19:23, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Well,No,Sorry I Wasted Your Time.184.44.131.140 (talk) 19:27, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Reception

Is there any reason why the averages for Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations aren't listed under aggregate review scores?TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 21:43, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, originally those 2 games were randomly in a different chart, apart from all the rest, so I tried to combine them together. It appears I messed up the formatting of the chart somehow, as it's not showing those 2 games, even though the info is technically there in the code, (You can see the info for those 2 games are at the bottom if you look at it in "edit mode".) Now that I've noticed this, I've tried, but can't get it to look right. I'd just revert it, but then those 2 games would still randomly not be with the rest. Do you see anything wrong with the code/formatting of the chart? Sergecross73 msg me 23:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
No, I'm not sure what the problem could be, but I'm no expert on matters such as this. I hope this gets sorted out.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 17:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
There always seems to be all these editors that are obsessed with tweaking the Metacritic percentage by a tiny fraction of a percent every time it updates, so I think it'll be worked out... Sergecross73 msg me 20:44, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Rapid Vandalism! Counter with Protection Locks!!

As the title states, there seems to be a lot of vandalism on this article lately, and they're not even from the same people. Should we make the article Semi-protected?--Bumblezellio (talk) 14:20, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

It really isnt that much. Yes its disruptive but i dont think its lock worthy. The vandals arent dedicated to vandalizing the article that much and the article's progression has been slow, so its not like its affecting us improve by that much. Im mainly saying this because its not that frequent. If it does happen again i will reconsider my vote.Lucia Black (talk) 09:02, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree. It's annoying, but not bad enough to warrant protection. Besides, at the moment, a number of registered editors with actual usernames are equally bad with their edits, so I don't think semi-protection would do that much... Sergecross73 msg me 14:33, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

VGchartz cannot be used as a source for sales

Please stop re-adding the VGChartz sources to the article. Edits like this are not appropriate, because it uses VGchartz as a source. It is not deemed as a reliable source. Please see this list of acceptable and not acceptable sources to use in video games. As you'll see, VGChartz falls under "unreliable", where as other sources currently used, such as MagicBox fall under acceptable "reliable" sources.

If you feel the current numbers are incomplete, by all means, try to find other sales figures. But find a reliable source for it; VGChartz figures are not acceptable. Thanks. (I have left a similar message on the talk page of the respective editor, but I wanted this to be available for people in general to see as well...) Sergecross73 msg me 14:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Sonic hedgehog the gene

I'm surprised this article doesn't mention that an important human gene has been named after the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_hedgehog#Discovery — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wirtzpeitz (talk • contribs) 00:56, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure where exactly it would make sense to put it in this article. However, it is mentioned at the Sonic character page, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(character)#Reception_and_legacy - at least. Sergecross73 msg me 12:55, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Mario and Sonic sales

As it currently reads in the article:

  • Mario & Sonic series 21.7 million
    • 2007 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games 10 million
    • 2009 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games 6 million
    • 2011 Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games 2.7 million

Now, if you total up the three individual games, it's 18.7 million, which obviously doesn't match up with the 21.7 million given above. It shouldn't stay as is, as the figures for the three individuals should match the total series sales. What should be done. Sergecross73 msg me 18:35, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Sonic 2006 is missing

| 2006 | Sonic the Hedgehog | Xbox 360, Playstation 3 | 2.07 million[1] |-

References

  1. ^ http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(2006). {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

2001:48F8:3024:729:1CA:26CD:E4F1:9A1D (talk) 17:52, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Wikia is not a reliable source. -- ferret (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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20th anniversary photo released

Could anyone add the Sonic's 20th Anniversary picture that was shown on Twitter by Sega? I would appreciate it. Thanks. Zacharyalejandro (talk) 22:15, 26 January 2016 (UTC)Zacharyalejandro

Source

Requested move 16 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: RESULT. Number 57 21:36, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

– Per WP:CONCEPTDAB. Virtually all readers searching for "Sonic the Hedgehog" are looking for something related to this series. This article discusses the character, all the games, the cartoons, and all the other tie-ins, making it the perfect embodiment of a CONCEPTDAB. This solution is typical at other articles on media franchises, including The Legend of Zelda, Crash Bandicoot, Planet of the Apes, Star Wars, Angry Birds, Pokemon, and various others. The previous discussion failed to achieve consensus partly because the Sonic the Hedgehog page was then a set index instead of a disambiguation page,[11] which confused the issue; it's now a regular dab page so that shouldn't be a problem any longer. Cúchullain t/c 20:46, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

  • Support per nom. Calidum ¤ 04:30, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Support; this seems clearer and consistent with our practice elsewhere. ╠╣uw [talk] 11:02, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Support, "Sonic the Hedgehog can refer to several games, the character and the series as a whole. The last one encompasses all that. --Soetermans. T / C 14:41, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. The series is the primary topic. Unreal7 (talk) 18:13, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sales

Sonic had shipped slightly over 75 million physical units as of December 2014 (of which about one-third were Genesis cartridges, about one-third were the Mario & Sonic games, and about one-third were everything else Sonic, broadly construed). While I can't cite NeoGAF directly—even though that "Retro Age Sales Thread" is filled with fascinating information from industry sources—combining the cited 80 million baseline from June 2011 with publicly available figures for subsequent releases yields a rough total of 87.82 million. To put that in perspective, that's more than Zelda! Note, however, that this could overstate the real number by as much as 9.2 million, although it does not include the recent Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 07:14, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Knuckles' Chaotix

I noticed that Knuckles' Chaotix isn't listed in the timeline of Sonic games. I'm not a Wikipedia whiz, so I don't know how to add it. Can someone do that for me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheJoebro64 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

It's a spin off game (it doesn't even include Sonic outside of some bonus end game picture), so I don't think it should be listed, especially as the timeline is already bloated as is. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:04, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Seconded. Spinoffs don't go on it, or it'd be terribly cluttered. We should be removing some of these random entries like Sonic Riders instead. Sergecross73 msg me 22:13, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
So should we only list Sonic Team/main series games?
Well, Chaotix was developed by Sonic Team, so make it main series games instead. ~TheJoebro64
Its currently organized that games where you don't play as Sonic (Knuckles Chaotix, Shadow the Hedgehog, the Tails centered Game Gear games) are not considered mainline games, something I agree with. Calling KC a mainline entry is like calling Luigi's Mansion a mainline Super Mario title. Sergecross73 msg me 23:50, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Reception section

I am proposing a major rewrite of the "Reception" section on this page. It is not detailed enough in my opinion. It should be more like this:

The original Mega Drive/Genesis games were widely acclaimed, with much praise being given to blah blah blah blah blah

However, the Dreamcast games in the series were positively received but not as well as the original yakety yak yak yak

You guys get what I'm saying, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheJoebro64 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

It can be rather difficult to write reception sections for long-running series like this. The reception could use some improvements, sure, but I'd recommend learning how to write some reception sections for single games before taking on a massive decade spanning series like this... Sergecross73 msg me 14:05, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2016

Change the last sentence in the second-to-last paragraph of "Modern era (2006-present)" to the following:

Sonic was added as a playable character in the LEGO video game, Lego Dimensions, on November 18, 2016; he is distributed via a "Level Pack" that includes an additional Sonic the Hedgehog-themed level and vehicles. 136.181.195.25 (talk) 17:56, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 January 2017

Editing again is not easy. 82.27.179.61 (talk) 21:07, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

 Not done - You didn't make an actual request for action. Sergecross73 msg me 21:46, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

SegaSonic inclusion/link

Given that this article appears to be an attempt a comprehensive chronology, do we want to mention SegaSonic the Hedgehog anywhere? More than happy to add a sentence/link myself - but I'm wondering if this hasn't come up before, since it seems such an obvious omission! Cpaaoi (talk) 18:01, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Have added it. Cpaaoi (talk) 09:47, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I imagine it was just an oversight. There's no reason for it to not even have a mention on the series page. Thanks. Sergecross73 msg me 12:13, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

350 million units SOLD

To whomever this would concern, I would just like to inform you all that Sonic has sold 350 million units (most likely counting digital and bundled copies) according to the newest Sonic Forces trailer. I'll be editing this information into this page along with the "List of Best-Selling Video Game" franchises.

Contact me if you believe I'm wrong so that we can discuss.

Pixel Cross (talk) 23:42, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

  • I don't know if it's wrong per se, but it's likely greatly inflated due to promotional reasons, likely counting things like free copies on mobile phones and steam. So it would need to be given the appropriate wording and context. Sergecross73 msg me 00:42, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2017

I'd like to put a Picture of Sonic and Classic Sonic themself into the article. GenjiPro100 (talk) 01:56, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 November 2017

Sonic Forces release date. MarioKart12 (talk) 18:02, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

 Done ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:19, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Infobox image

My understanding of the WP:NFCC is that the fair use image in the infobox should be replaced by a free use alternative whenever possible. Since we have many alternative logos suitable for illustrating the topic (though I recommend File:SonicLogoSeries.png), I don't see how the screenshot's fair use rationale can be valid in this case. Pinging @Masem, our resident copyright expert czar 23:52, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, actually the most current logo (whether it is free or not) should be used, as opposed to the first game's screenshot, to keep consistent with other published media with multiple logos. --MASEM (t) 00:01, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
I thought one of the main requirements of images was that it was necessary for them to convey something that words can't? Why would we use an image of some relative standard text saying "Sonic"? Seems like that's a violation in itself. I don't so much favor the screenshot as much as I object to an entirely text-based image. Sergecross73 msg me 00:27, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure that I follow this line of thinking. NFCC only applies for copyrighted images, which isn't the case for the suggested public domain File:SonicLogoSeries.png. And even if the image were copyrighted, a looser and more liberal interpretation of NFCC policy (which I support) would still allow it to be used since a text-based description doesn't really do justice to the logo's stylistic features. Satellizer (´ ･ ω ･ `) 10:42, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
I guess I just don't understand how/why basic, plain text is the best representation for a speed based, platformer starring an anthropomorphic character? This logo isnt particularly used in many games past or present either, so it's not particularly good for recognizability either... Sergecross73 msg me 14:43, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Here's my understanding: (1) We want an image for the infobox to illustrate the article's subject. (2) We prefer free use representations whenever possible, including this case. (3) The text logo is sufficient for illustrating the article's subject and is free use, as opposed to needing a fair use image. (4) An aside—the series logo is actually more representative of the series than a screenshot from the first game... We should only be using fair use images when we have no other recourse for using a free use alternative (see the NFCC). czar 15:13, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Again, I don't mind if we don't use the title screen (even if Sonic popping up through that ring is iconic to the series) but isn't there sone sort of third option, some WP:IUP-passing image that does a better job of encompassing the subject better than just the name being shown in plain text? Sergecross73 msg me 16:33, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Most game series pages show the series logo, whether it's a PD-simple logo or straight fair use czar 23:17, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
Okay. But can anyone explain why conceptually? No ones even attempted yet. Sergecross73 msg me 01:46, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure what more you're expecting? The point of the infobox image is to visually identify the topic, which is generally what a logo stands to do. If the logo is visually complicated, we upload it under fair use, but if the standard logo is a word in a simple typeface, that's how it goes. How does that sound? czar 02:00, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm expecting an explanation as to how rather generic text is both worth using an image for, and more representative of an anthromorphic cartoon character and its action-themed games, than an image of said character and/or his games. I've got some people mindlessly blathering some Wiki-alphabet soup at me, but no conceptual explanation. Some blue text used in little to none of the games is not representative of the series of platformer games as a whole. Sergecross73 msg me 02:17, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
But the intent of the infobox is to identify the topic (so you know you're on the right page), not to show the characters or say anything more about the series. Ostensibly those things can be explained in prose, if they're necessary. Do you have another image in mind that you think readers would more readily expect to see atop the series page? Because right now the title image from Sonic 1 gives the impression that this is the article on that game rather than on the series. czar 02:24, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
The proposed text-based image isn't used in a single game or it its respective artwork. I don't understand how it's helping anyone identify anything. Sergecross73 msg me 02:30, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
...the official website (http://www.sonicthehedgehog.com/en/) uses File:SonicLogoSeries.png to identify the series—I didn't think that was even up for debate. And all of the other WPs use the same image, if not a blander version whereof. czar 02:36, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it's on the subject's current iteration of its website. But...that's it. It's not on any game covers, or widely used in the franchise. Again, I fail to see his plain text is representative of a video game. Sergecross73 msg me 02:42, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
What would you have us use if not the official logo? It is representative of the series, the franchise, not any single or group of video games. @Masem, perhaps you can help? czar 02:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
Well, is there really not a single image with any representation or semblance of the character itself? Sergecross73 msg me 02:59, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
Not to identify the series. All the recent games use the slanted "O" and a variation of the official logo. And for the record, the Mario logo doesn't feature Mario and the Uncharted logo doesn't feature Nathan Drake—that's generally how the logos work. There's a gameplay image of Sonic very close to the top as it is, so I'm not sure why his absence in the infobox should be concerning. czar 03:15, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I just don't understand the point of a text based image for something like this. I fail to see how it helps the reader understand the subject in any respect. Images are supposed to be used sparingly and only to convey things not able to fully be expressed in text. I don't see how this image satisfies this. And the only answer I seem to keep getting is "We do it this way because we've done it this way." Sergecross73 msg me 14:05, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Given that we are talking about the franchise, which is far more than just the video game, the use of the first game's loading screen seems to be counter to how we identify the franchise. It's the marketing of the franchise that we want the infobox for series to show. While the first game's loading screen may be iconic for most gamers, it doesn't mean much to others. --MASEM (t) 16:32, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

And some blue/yellow plain text that isn't used in most of the franchise's media is? Sergecross73 msg me 16:52, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
At the very least this is afoul of NFCC as it is: there is a free use alternative for the infobox and identifying this subject. Is that disputed? If not, we should replace the image. I'm not wedded to the replacement but my primary concern is removing the current image. czar 16:49, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

From just looking at the boxarts on Wikipedia, the stylized "Sonic" seen in File:SonicLogoSeries.png has been used on every single main Sonic the Hedgehog game since Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Finding a completely representative image of the franchise would be impossible as each of the games have different logo styling but I'd argue the proposed image is the closest thing there is, especially considering that it's also featured on the official site. Being NFCC exempt is an added bonus. Satellizer (´ ･ ω ･ `) 23:30, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Humorously, that text-based image has now been deleted on the grounds of violating the image policy. Sergecross73 msg me 14:01, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

So what should we use to identify the series now? Another logo? JOEBRO64 20:13, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Sonic Heroes sales

I understand that Sega (unlike Nintendo) has never been transparent about the sales of its games, and that this makes our job more difficult, but our 1.42 million estimate for Sonic Heroes is obviously preposterously low. Heroes was an extremely popular game released on all three major consoles at the time, yet Wikipedia suggests that it sold less than Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast and Sonic Adventure 2 on the Gamecube? If you examine the citation from Sega's 2004 annual report (p. 13), the problem becomes obvious: 1.42 million copies were sold by March 2004, but Heroes had just been released in January 2004 in North America. We really need data from fiscal 2005, but none was forthcoming in Sega Sammy's 2005 annual report. Thankfully, Sega Sammy's 2006 annual report (p. 47) has some sales information from fiscal 2005 as well as fiscal 2006, including that Heroes sold 1.57 million copies from Match 2004—March 2005. While no data is available for fiscal 2006, Heroes was still popular enough during fiscal 2007 to sell 420,000 copies in North America (p. 15), for a total of at least 3.41 million units sold. (Per that last source, Shadow the Hedgehog's total should also be revised upwards, to 2.06 million.) To be clear, there could be a similar problem with many of the figures cited: Sonic Unleashed sold 2.45 million copies in its first five months after release, but there is no reason to assume that it never sold another copy after that!TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 21:10, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I hate that about the industry in general, few companies outside of Nintendo give comprehensive sales figures, outside of the occasional boasting of massive blockbusters. I have no issue with adding together individual figures as long as their all official, but you might want to document how you got there somewhere, for maintaining down the line. Sergecross73 msg me 23:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2018

Lewispw1107 (talk) 18:28, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

You need to write down right here what changes you want to be made... Sergecross73 msg me 18:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Sales for Sonic Mania

Are these available anywhere? Cup o’ Java ( talk • edits ) 18:59, 22 July 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cup o' Java (talk • contribs)

Sega announced in April 2018 that it had passed 1 million sold, but that’s it. See here. Sergecross73 msg me 20:48, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2018

Change to "History Sega Genesis (1991–1996)" the first sentence "The first Sonic game, Sonic the Hedgehog, is a platform game released in 1991." should be changed to "The first Sonic game, Sonic the Hedgehog, is a platform game released in 1991 for the Sega Genesis."

The source for this new information is the same source that is currently attributed to that sentence in wikipedia, Dobson, Jason (June 23, 2006). "Sonic The Hedgehog Celebrates 15th Anniversary". Gamasutra. Think Services. Retrieved August 27, 2009. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9832) Sophgdn (talk) 17:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

  • I may have misread, but you just want "for the Sega Genesis" added to the sentence? Not sure what the source has to do with something that we all pretty much know... ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:11, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2019

could I replace the part about sega requesting a mascot with sega request a official mascot, as alex kidd was for a time was sega's unofficial mascot, with sonic being sega's first official 2001:569:785F:9100:BC28:82:9A30:B89A (talk) 19:46, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Done, but did differently than your request. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:04, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

TSR is missing

I know this game hasn’t been released yet but, Team Sonic Racing is missing from the page. Sonicfan200530 (talk) 16:35, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

New movie

Which actor will be related to announced movie ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.237.230.42 (talk) 17:48, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

...What...? Sergecross73 msg me 21:02, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Development section

@TheJoebro64: thanks for expanding this article. I love it when someone else does the heavy lifting of researching and organizing information, leaving me the much easier (and engrossing) task of copyediting. Still going through it, but two small ideas -

  • We mention that the early Sonic games were well reviewed, so should we mention that Shadow and Heroes (not to mention later games) weren't?
  • Shouldn't we mention the character redesign for SA1? Popcornduff (talk) 12:52, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Yeah. I was actually going to add information regarding the cooler reception for Shadow and Heroes (and the comparatively positive reviews of Dimps' games), but I hadn't even thought about the Adventure redesigns... Also, thanks for the copyediting, makes the article look 110% better. JOEBRO64 12:58, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Seconded, for the record. Sergecross73 msg me 13:48, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

"List of Sonic the Hedgehog series vocal songs" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect List of Sonic the Hedgehog series vocal songs. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 22:04, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

sonic jump 8.8M sales (iOS) & 16.7M "Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (iOS)"

https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/ar2013/future/future_02.html The source said sonic jump had 8.8M DLs by 2013, then the "Reception and legacy" section made the 8.8M totally equal paid DL sales.

The game actually had free for a limited time in 2012. The 8.8M really included free DLs. Is the source reliable to make the 8.8M be sales? You can also see SEGA just used the word "downloads" not "sold" in the source. (https://web.archive.org/web/20130107011409/https://www.sonicstadium.org/2012/12/sonic-jump-is-free-to-play-ios-only/) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vgfa (talk • contribs) 03:43, 6 December 2019 (UTC) @Sergecross73:@TheJoebro64:

@TheJoebro64:You said Sonic Stadium is not reliable. Ok, there is another free for a limited time on iOS. It's posted by Sonic The Hedgehog official Facebook in 2012. https://www.facebook.com/Sonic/photos/a.406270927417/10151282082692418/?type=3&theater

  • Link doesn't work (at least for me). ~ Dissident93 (talk) 10:46, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

@Dissident93:Did you login your FB? Maybe logout and try again.

I find the same thing about the 16.7M "Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (iOS)" in 2012 via same official Facebook. free app of a week https://www.facebook.com/Sonic/photos/a.406270927417/10150949983717418/?type=1&theater — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vgfa (talk • contribs) 11:25, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I remember there was quite a bit of confusion as to how Sega cane up with some if these numbers, and how we should portray them here on Wikipedia. I’m not currently recalling where we had the last discussion, but I believe we had things set up a certain way for a reason, but then again, passerby editors may have altered things since then too. Anyways, one of my concerns though was that it would be hard to understand your changes and “recalculations” down the line, so they likely wouldn’t stick long-term. That, and any of these Sonic fansites are not usable sources on Wikipedia. (Sonic Stadium, Sonic Retro, TSSZ, etc) Sergecross73 msg me 00:59, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

New source - comic based

I'd actually added that to the refideas list on the Sonic comic page earlier today. It's a good read. Bobby's work regarding the history of the Sonic comics is really good; it's nice to see that it was published in a reliable source. (Though Bobby's great sense of humor is unfortunately absent in this article...) JOEBRO64 23:20, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Voice actors

Anyone think there should be a subsection about the series' voice actors in the characters section? I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but it'd be nice to include, and I think it's notable to mention that the voice actors have been across a ton of different forms of media (especially now, considering that SPOILERS! Colleen Villard reprised her role as Tails for the movie. Also some VAs like Smith and Chabert are established stars). JOEBRO64 01:39, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any reason against it, as it seems easily sourceable. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 10:17, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Steam player count leaks

I was just browsing a bit when I discovered that a few Sonic games were present in the 2018 Steam API leak. An Ars Technica article about it can be found here, but for those curious, here are the numbers we got:

  • Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed: 1,232,451
  • Sonic Generations: 647,871
  • Sonic Adventure 2: 416,375
  • Sonic Adventure DX: 291,205
  • Sonic CD: 241,011

I know player counts and sales are usually two different things, but IMO these would count as sales because, well, you can't play them without buying them. We probably wouldn't be able to include All-Stars Transformed and Generations since those already have sales figures that probably include these numbers, but we could possibly revise the numbers for the other three. I'm assuming that not everyone would be on board with this, so I'm posting it here for suggestions. JOEBRO64 02:07, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Metascores

Where the hell are the Metacritic scores? And what purpose was there to deleting them? Aardwolf68 (talk) 22:27, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

I removed them because they're not relevant to the series as a whole. They're still at the individual game articles. JOEBRO64 12:27, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
If I remember right, people weren’t very good at keeping them updated here either, and they were hard to edit due to being a massive wall of text and wiki-formatting. As Joe says, they’re still present, and better maintainened, at the individual articles. Sergecross73 msg me 13:10, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Indrian (talk · contribs) 19:29, 8 March 2020 (UTC)


I’ll do this. It’s a big topic, so I may attack it piecemeal. Indrian (talk) 19:29, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

This is a very big article, so I'll also help out and review it. Namcokid47 (Contribs) 17:11, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Lead

  • "Sonic the Hedgehog is a Japanese video game series and media franchise created by Sonic Team and owned by Sega" - This is the lead, so I know we don't want to get bogged down in minutiae, but the modern entity known as "Sonic Team" did not create the franchise. The first game was developed by a group that did identify itself as "Sonic Team," but this was not an official business unit within Sega at the time. Sonics, 2, 3, and Knuckles were created at STI in the United States, while Sonic CD was developed by a separate team in Japan led by Ohshima. The Sonic Team as understood today was constituted when Naka returned to Japan from STI. Obviously the lead should not go into all of that, but I am not sure "created by Sonic Team" really captures the facts either.
    • Changed to just "created and owned by Sega," if that's any better. JOEBRO64 00:57, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
  • "The main Sonic the Hedgehog games are platformers developed by Sonic Team" - Again, not every "main game" was a Sonic Team creation, though that is certainly true of anything done in the last couple of decades or so.
    • Added a "mostly". JOEBRO64 00:57, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
  • "was developed after Sega requested a new mascot character to replace Alex Kidd" - There is a long-standing myth that Alex Kidd was a mascot character for Sega, probably because of a feeling that a game designed to compete with Super Mario Bros. must necessarily also have starred a character designed to compete with Mario. Alex Kidd creator Kotaru Hayashida addressed this situation himself in an interview. When asked "Was there ever any talk about having Alex Kidd be the official corporate mascot for Sega?", Hayushida responded: "At that time Sega didn’t really have any official framework in place for the promotion of such a character, and we weren’t lucky enough to have Alex Kidd get that big naturally."
    • Removed. JOEBRO64 00:57, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Development

  • "Sega's mascot, Alex Kidd, was considered too similar to Mario." - Again, Alex Kidd was never a mascot, though Sega certainly may have promoted him as one if the games had been more successful. Western media sources get this wrong a lot because they did not have good access to Japanese-language sources even just a decade ago. We have a greater understanding of this now.
    • Removed. JOEBRO64 00:57, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
  • "although designer Hirokazu Yasuhara said the instruction was given to only him, artist Naoto Ohshima, and programmer Yuji Naka." - If you look at the back and forth between Yasuhara and the interviewer in the original source, he does not actually appear to be contradicting the standard narrative. Its clear Yasuhara did not understand the original question and asked for clarification and focused on "how we wound up choosing between an armadillo and a hedgehog." When he answers the next question about who made that decision, he talks about it being the three of them, which is completely true. They had a rabbit early in development, decided to change the character to either an armadillo or a hedgehog during the course of development, and finally settled on what became Sonic. This was all AFTER any contest would have taken place. So his answer is accurate, but its not quite answering the question the interviewer was trying to ask. Ohshima himself remembers multiple teams presenting ideas for a mascot character in The History of Sonic The Hedgehog, which is criminally underused in this article at the moment. Yasuhara only became involved with Sonic after those initial decisions and therefore would not have first-hand knowledge of that phase of design.
  • "Regardless, the winning character was a teal hedgehog created by Ohshima" - This is not quite accurate, the winning concept was Naka and Ohshima's platformer with a rabbit character in the leading role at the time. Ohshima remembers the concept being selected when only he and Naka were on the project, and the hedgehog character was not in place until after Yasuhara also joined the team. This is all a bit hazy and there may be some problems with the memories of the participants when regarding the sequence of events, but Ohshima laid it out thusly in an interview:
Q: Oshima, you were the one who came up with the original plan for Sega’s hit of hits, Sonic the Hedgehog, right?
A: Yes. I had been with Sega for exactly three years, when the President announced a company-wide petition for new ideas for “a product that will be a big hit in America!” I brought him my plans for Sonic and they were accepted. Persistence is key, as they say, and I had always thought that after three years of training at Sega, I would like to try designing my own game.
Q: So you worked up the presentation for the Sonic project all on your own, then.
A: Yeah. I had previously worked in promotions/advertising, so I prepared a variety of different documents to present. I also asked Yuji Naka to prepare a working game sample to show, and I even had our toy guy create some plushies and stationary sample goods. I bombarded them with all that in my presentation: “with this game, Sega can take over the world!” (laughs) I had worked with Naka on the Phantasy Star planning, and we continued to work closely together after that.
Q: Did you already have the idea for a hedgehog character at that point in the planning stage?
A: No, when I first imagined the plans for this game, the character wasn’t yet decided. The idea for Sonic came out in the course of various discussions with Naka.
So there was a contest for a game that could be successful in the United States and perhaps serve as a flagship franchise, while at the same time Sega was looking for a mascot. In The History of Sonic The Hedgehog, Ohshima identifies these as two different drives happening at roughly the same time. Yuji Naka and Naoto Ohshima were already working on a "Mario killer", Ohshima submitted his ideas, as did many other Sega employees, and the Naka-Ohshima project was selected for further development. Yasuhara came on board, and more intense work was done on the character, which by this time Sega hoped could serve as a mascot. This has been jumbled up a lot in Western sources, but this seems to be the narrative that connects interviews given by Naka, Ohshima, and Yasuhara over the years in English and Japanese.
  • "Although Sega of America CEO Michael Katz and Sega of America's marketing experts were certain that Sonic would not catch on with American children" - I don't know who these "marketing experts" are supposed to be, but while Katz's reservations are well known, there is no indication of widespread dissatisfaction with the game or the character at Sega of America. SoA did submit some suggestions for modifications to the character's look and backstory so it would work better in the United States, and Naka's team made these changes, albeit reluctantly.

That's a lot to get started on. Once we get through the early genesis (har!) of the character and the game, things should go a lot smoother. I am going to stop here for now to let you take in these first comments. Indrian (talk) 00:16, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Indrian, hi! Would you mind telling me the page numbers of The History of Sonic the Hedgehog that this is covered in? I don't have access to the full book; I only have the portion that covers Sonic Adventure since I worked on that a while ago and got the scans from another user who has since retired. I'll get to addressing the rest ASAP. JOEBRO64 00:41, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
I've done my best to address the inaccuracies without the book, but I think there may still be a few gaps we could fill in. Just let me know what you think. JOEBRO64 01:18, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
TheJoebro64 Looking good so far. I will continue through the article shortly. As for those page numbers, the material I am pulling from is in two parts of the book. The overview of the first game's development runs on pages 20-33. The Oshima interview is on pages 96-101.
Indrian, I've added it. JOEBRO64 00:57, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Comment: just butting in to say that the detailed review so far and Joe's responses have been great. Nice work, guys. Popcornfud (talk) 16:11, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! You've certainly played a big role in getting this article here, btw. JOEBRO64 00:57, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
TheJoebro64, I haven't been doing any sort of structured or methodical copyediting, just jumping in and doing random bits and pieces on the train or whatever. I'll probably continue to fiddle with it but don't let that interrupt the GAN. If it does become distracting or disruptive just let me know and I'll come back later. Popcornfud (talk) 14:29, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Okay, continuing from where I left off.

Development Part 2

  • The paragraph on Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, and Spinball is a little bit muddled in its flow. I think my problem with it is that Sonic & Knuckles is mentioned up front when the concept of such a game did not exist from the beginning of development. I would personally do the following structure, though I am open to other ideas as well:
  • Cerny leaves, American and Japanese developers are divided into different teams
  • The Japanese developers start work on Sonic The Hedgehog 3. They have ambitious plans to use the forthcoming SVP to go with a partially 3D look. A contest is held among STI staff to create a new sidekick. Takashi Yuda's echidna is chosen.
  • The developers are forced to abandon the 3D look due to delays with the SVP. The game will also miss holiday 1993. To compensate, the American staff of STI create Sonic Spinball.
  • With a McDonalds promotion locked in for February 1994, Sega demands Sonic 3 be done in time to tie into it. Naka decides to split the game in two, with a playable Knuckles pushed off to the second part, Sonic & Knuckles, to be released in Fall 1994.
  • With both Sonic games complete, Naka returns to Japan as a producer and forms Sonic Team.
This may mean expanding the one paragraph into two, but I think there is enough material to make it work.
Done. JOEBRO64 00:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
  • " Sonic Adventure, released in 1998, was one of the largest video games ever created at the time" - I read the original source, and while the immense size of the game world is mentioned several times, I see no claim that it was "one of the largest" games ever. How would that even be measured? By world size, Daggerfall dwarfs it (and practically any other game known to humanity). By playtime, plenty of 100+ hour RPGs already existed at that point. Maybe they mean in terms of a 3D world, but again, the source does not actually make the claim. This should be removed.
    • Replaced. JOEBRO64 00:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
  • "and introduced elements that became series staples" - Since this article is on the whole series we don't want to get too bogged down on specifics, but a claim like this requires at least a couple examples.
    • Done JOEBRO64 00:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
  • "Sega released an expanded port of Sonic Adventure 2 for Nintendo's GameCube, chosen for its 56k technology" - In the sourced interview, the 56K modem comes up in regards to Phantasy Star Online, not Sonic Adventure 2. I'm pretty sure Sonic Adventure 2 cannot even be played online.
    • Fixed. JOEBRO64 00:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
  • I notice that in the "Jump to 3D" section, there is more inclusion of critical reception. I think we should be consistent about this and report this info for every main series Sonic game in the narrative where possible rather than have these elements randomly start to appear partway through the development section.
    • I think I've addressed this. Let me know what you think. JOEBRO64 00:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Another general thing I see is that I think we are losing Izuka in the article a little. Starting with Sonic Adventure he becomes more and more important in the design of Sonic games, but the article never really indicates that he is the director for practically every mainline Sonic game starting with Adventure. I think we can do a better job of introducing him to the narrative seeing that after the "big three" he is easily the most important creative force on the series.
    • I've included him a lot more, including that he directed the Adventure games and Heroes, how he's in charge of the series now, and some of his commentary. JOEBRO64 00:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Just spitballing here, but I wonder if the racing, Olympic, and handheld remake games should be confined to their own sections? The article does a pretty good job of explaining the ebb and flow of the mainline Sonic series, but the narrative gets a little muddled when its chugging along pretty well and then we get a paragraph talking about side projects. I am not saying we have to go this route, but I think its worth exploring.
    • I took all the crossovers and dumped them in the Crossovers section. Does that address this? JOEBRO64 00:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Story

  • This section is mostly fine, but since we have a lot of info on the original lore of the character, not mentioning that he was also supposed to be part of a rock band and have a human girlfriend seem like significant omissions. We should probably cover that facet of the character's backstory.
    • Added it. JOEBRO64 00:26, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Crossovers

  • So per my above statements, maybe this is the place to put some of the side games by reworking it into a "Spinoffs and Crossovers" section.
    • See above. JOEBRO64 00:26, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

And that takes us all the way through "Music" (no complaints in that section). This feels like another good place to stop for a time. After you have had time to digest this round, we will move on to "Related Media." Indrian (talk) 23:54, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Indrian, I've replied above. (I'm also assuming you have no comments about the characters and gameplay sections?) JOEBRO64 00:27, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
Indrian, I don't mean to bother you, I just wanted to check in. JOEBRO64 15:53, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
It has been a crazy week to put it mildly, but I'll get back to this very soon. Indrian (talk) 07:22, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Indrian, I totally understand. Stay safe, that's more important than anything. JOEBRO64 17:46, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Indrian, just a reminder JOEBRO64 17:48, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for being exceptionally patient. Let's get this done.

Other Media

I have some specifics broken down by subsection below, but as a general observation this section seems to shift between using past tense and present tense when describing events in these adaptations. For instance, "the Sonic cast teleports from their home planet" in Sonic Underground but "Sonic was a member of a resistance force" in Sonic the Hedgehog. There are a few other examples as well, so I would give the whole section a once over for consistent tense.

I believe I've resolved this. JOEBRO64 20:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Animation

  • "inspired by Batman: The Animated Series" - Looking at the source, this appears to be speculation by the author. While there are ways that opinion could be worked into the article if you really want to, right now it is being stated as fact, which cannot be claimed from the source.
    • Removed. JOEBRO64 20:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Comics

  • "A Sonic the Hedgehog manga series was published in Shogakukan's Shogaku Yonensei magazine" - Passive voice.
    • Injected some adrenaline in it to make it more active. JOEBRO64 20:20, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
  • "At the time of its cancellation, Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog was the longest-running American comic book to never be relaunched" - This statement is a bit confusing and misleading. The original article is pointing out that of comics active in 2017, it was the longest-running without a relaunch with a new #1. As written, this could be interpreted as the book being the longest running ever since relaunch is undefined, which is certainly not true. Even if this were better defined in the article though, I am not sure I see the significance, as plenty of series ran way longer than Sonic ever did. This says more about the current state of the comic book industry, which loves #1 issues to try to boost collector value, than it says about the enduring popularity of the Sonic comic book itself.
    • I've changed it "... by 2016 it was one of the longest-running American comics in the market." I think this makes more sense. I can remove it entirely if you don't think that's an improvement. JOEBRO64 20:20, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
  • "making it the second-highest-grossing film of 2020" - As 2020 is not over yet, this should be qualified with "so far" or "to date" or something. Of course with COVID-19 completely screwing with box office, it may actually keep a relatively high ranking.

Commentary

  • "and Sega of America marketing director Al Nilsen" - This should be former Sega of America marketing director, yes?
    • Yes. Done. JOEBRO64 20:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
  • "although Naka justified the additions as necessary to please fans" - As written, the article indicates this is Naka's justification for the criticism levied by the journalists, Whitehead, and Nilsen, but looking at the sources, Naka made his comments in 2005, while the sourced criticisms were made in 2009 and 2017.
    • I've clarified that Naka's comments came earlier. JOEBRO64 20:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Cultural Impact

  • "Celebrity fans include horror film director John Carpenter, actress Lacey Chabert (who voiced a character in the 2006 Sonic the Hedgehog), and wrestler and actor Dwayne Johnson." - Its a video game series that has sold hundreds of millions of copies; I am sure a whole host of celebrities have played the games and enjoyed them. I don't see how that has a cultural impact. Its not like food or fashion or whatnot in which a celebrity endorsement spurs increased attention or patronage.
    • Removed. JOEBRO64 20:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

And that is finally it for the first go around. I know you have already addressed my first comments from long, long ago. Once you have addressed the rest, I will give the article another read through. I am going to officially put the nomination  On hold, though doing so is almost satirical at this point. Things should honestly move much more quickly now on my end for the remainder of the review. Thanks once again for your patience in these unusual times. Indrian (talk) 19:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Indrian, responded above. Thank you for taking the time to review! I didn't mind the wait; I just moved on to some other projects in the meantime. JOEBRO64 20:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Indrian, just a reminder JOEBRO64 13:32, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I just needed a block of time to give the whole thing one final read through. Everything looks good, and I will go ahead and promote. Thank you for the hard work and apologies once again for the extended review cycle. Indrian (talk) 07:09, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
No problem! Thank you for your thorough review! JOEBRO64 19:46, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

"Japanese" in lead

I don't feel strongly about this at all - I'm fine with including this or not really - but I think it's interesting one to think about.

The lead sentence should set out the fundamental, defining elements of the article subject. So is the fact that Sonic is a Japanese franchise fundamental and defining?

Obviously it was created in Japan, and most of the games are developed there. But also consider:

  • Many of the games, including some major instalments, were developed outside the US, either by mainly non-Japanese staff or with non-Japanese staff. Sonic 2, Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic Spinball, Sonic R, Sonic 3D, Sonic Adventure 2 ...
  • In the early days, the brand was shaped to a significant extent by Sega of America.
  • Sonic is obviously a multimedia franchise and almost all the major non-game Sonic media were created outside Japan - the Archie comics, Sonic the Comic, the American cartoons, the recent Hollywood movie.
  • Should Wikipedia introduce Harry Potter as a British media franchise? Should it say the Marvel Cinematic Universe is an American franchise? I know WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but consider these thought experiments - how you think we should treat those examples might be useful in thinking how we treat this one, if it's different or the same, etc.

There's no doubt that the lead should cover that the franchise was created in Japan, but does it need to be in the first sentence as a defining element? I think there's an argument to exclude it. But like I said, I don't feel strongly. Popcornfud (talk) 18:24, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Popcornfud, I personally feel it's worthy to include for context, but those are valid points you bring up. Maybe we should bring this up at a different venue like WT:VG? JOEBRO64 19:23, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
I don't think I care enough about this issue to bring it up outside our cosy circle of Sonic editors - but if anyone else wants to take it there, go for it! Popcornfud (talk) 21:50, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
  • We really should be avoiding the mention of nationality in game articles in general unless it is directly relevant to the subject matter, such as biographical articles. Honestly, us simply linking to the creator (Sega) where it is clearly stated they are a Japanese company is enough. But failing that, it should at least be omitted in the opening sentence. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:58, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
    Is there really any precedence for this though? I also looked across various media franchise articles. A majority I saw, including Super Mario, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, the DC Extended Universe, Planet of the Apes, and Final Fantasy (the latter two are featured, btw) all mention the nationality. (Also, per Popcornfud's example, the MCU article did mention it was an American media franchise for a few years, looks like it got removed earlier this year.) A relative minority didn't. There's clearly precedent to do it. JOEBRO64 23:46, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
    I'm aware it's pretty widespread, but that doesn't change my opinion on it. I just don't see it as 100% necessary when these franchises are released and localized (dubbed or subbed) across the world. There is nothing American about Star Wars besides the fact its creator happened to be one. If you were reading up on an film/game for the first time (with no prior context) is knowing the nationality of the company/creator behind it really one of the first things you look for? Especially for something fantasy-themed that has little to no basis with the real world? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:03, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
    All the companies that produced Star Wars and most of the actors in the movies were American, actually JOEBRO64 20:06, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

sonic and shadow

shadow is way faster than sonic because of his inhibitor rings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.107.225 (talk) 23:58, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

  • Robotnik outran Sonic in the ending of Sonic 2, details like this don't matter. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 08:55, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

We also don't have an exact speed for either. The most that is alluded to is that Sonic could theoretically run at the speed of light in his base form, as calculated by E-123 Omega in Sonic Colours DS. 86.166.177.228 (talk) 13:06, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

"Ohshima and Hector said Jackson's involvement was terminated and his music removed following the first allegations of sexual abuse against him"

Did Oshima actually say this in the interview? According to the Sonic 3 article he only said it was removed due to "various incidents". Whatever he said, both articles should be consistent. Does anyone have a copy of the source to check? Popcornfud (talk) 16:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Popcornfud, the interview's conductor provided a footnote that says that Ohshima was referring to the sexual abuse allegations. The entire interview is scanned here JOEBRO64 16:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
TheJoebro64, great thanks! I'll update the articles a little later today, as I think there's more stuff we can cover here. bizarrely I know the person who interpreted in this interview... doubt she remembers it though. Popcornfud (talk) 16:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Sonic's sales figures

According to Nintendo Life and some other websites, the franchise sold 800 million copies. But isn't it weird due to the fact the Mario franchise seems more popular ?--Discret User (talk) 00:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

  • About 600 million of those "sales" are actually free-to-play mobile downloads. That's why the number is so big. Indrian (talk) 00:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
    • And of that, over 350 million are Sonic Dash alone. Sega did embrace mobile gaming before Nintendo did, though it wasn’t without its struggles to do so either. Red Phoenix talk 01:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-Protected Edit Request

Can someone add a hatnote directly linking to Sonic the Hedgehog (character)? 45.251.33.130 (talk) 13:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think that would be the best option since there are multiple things with the name Sonic the Hedgehog - the franchise, the character, at least four games, the movie... so instead of second-guessing which one the reader wants, we're best just linking to the disambiguation page as we currently do. Popcornfud (talk) 13:39, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Seconded. Sergecross73 msg me 13:41, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
But since the entire franchise revolves around the character, wouldn't it be logical that a sizable number of people like me looking up "Sonic the Hedgehog" wanted to read about the character? A hatnote would make it more convenient for those who wanted to read about the character since the character is logically the second most prominent subject with this name. (I'm the same editor but now I'm on 4G instead of Wi-Fi) 27.62.1.249 (talk) 15:40, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
The character article is already listed pretty prominently though. It's at the start of the very second sentence in the article, where we're still defining the article's subject. I find it hard to believe people are having a hard time finding the character article as is. Sergecross73 msg me 15:55, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
I know that it isn't hard to find the link, but I thought it was common practice to have hatnotes even in these cases since Mario has a link to Mario (franchise) in the seventh to tenth words of the first sentence but still has a hatnote for the link. Is there some policy or essay I can see that explicitly explains where hatnotes are not necessary and may actually cause problems? 27.62.1.249 (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
The main difference is that Mario doesn't have all these other options because there's no "Mario (1991 video game) or Mario 2006 video game) variants that "Sonic the Hedgehog" has. This is the exact reason why disambiguation pages are made - when there's many variants. Sergecross73 msg me 17:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Jack Frost (talk) 22:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Official title of the franchise

Nothingburger. JOEBRO64 15:21, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The franchise's official name has been subject to debate. It is either "Sonic the Hedgehog" or just "Sonic" (as the majority of games in the series call it). Homechallenge55 (talk) 21:21, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure I've witnessed any of this "debate". Pretty sure I've been watching over this article for over a decade, and it's rarely if ever been a point of contention. Sergecross73 msg me 21:40, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Even if "Sonic" was the franchise's official name (which it isn't), this article would still be titled Sonic the Hedgehog for WP:NATDIS reasons. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:53, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2021

Change "Sonic the Hedgehog is Sega's flagship franchise and one of the bestselling video game franchises, selling over 140 million by 2016 and grossing over $6 billion as of 2020." to "Sonic the Hedgehog is Sega's flagship franchise and one of the bestselling video game franchises, selling over 140 million by 2016 and grossing over 6 Billion US Dollars as of 2020."

It would be less confusing(at least for me) than $6 billion. SuperSonic400 (talk) 20:56, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

To editor SuperSonic400:  done, and thank you very much! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 21:22, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2021

In Gameplay, there is this small sentence : "Controlling the player character, the player navigates a series of levels at high speeds while jumping between platforms, fighting enemies and bosses, and avoiding obstacles." Add (called as "zones") after the "levels" word. SuperSonic400 (talk) 01:23, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Not done: unnecessary, doesn't enhance the reader's knowledge of the subject. Also, they're not called zones in every game. JOEBRO64 01:33, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Yeah. Now that I think about it more it makes sense. I also did not play all the games so I did not know this. Thank You SuperSonic400 (talk) 21:27, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

"Untitled Sonic the Hedgehog video game" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Untitled Sonic the Hedgehog video game. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 3#Untitled Sonic the Hedgehog video game until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Jalen Folf (talk) 18:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog (character) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:34, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

One of the world's most popular video game characters, by 1992 Sonic was more recognizable to children ages 6 to 11 than Disney's Mickey Mouse.

I feel like this should have a citation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.165.53 (talk) 18:20, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

It's said by the source 22 (1Up). (CC) Tbhotch™ 18:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Split Suggestion

In the "History" subsection, there should be a split in 2022 for the timeline due to a change in formula for the newer videogames. There would be only a sentence splitting with this however, though this will change in the future once "Sonic Frontiers" is released. If it is decided that it will be split after the game is released, I will be fine with that. Master106 (talk) 07:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

I feel like we should wait until there's more of substance to say. There's not much to say beyond "Frontiers/Origins coming out soon!" - that doesn't make for much of a subsection. Sergecross73 msg me 22:14, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Agreed with Serge, we need more information before we can split the section. JOEBRO64 23:54, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Rey the flying squirrel

Don’t forget Rey the flying 🐿 2601:204:D77E:1440:60EF:306A:4908:34DF (talk) 02:20, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

He's mentioned briefly in the characters section...and that's probably enough. He has almost zero significance in the series. Sergecross73 msg me 02:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Sonic the hedgehog mistake

In the original Sonic the hedghog the villain was Doctor Robotnic but your article is using Doctor Eggman. 67.0.238.124 (talk) 01:07, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: This is explained in the article, During the Genesis era, Eggman was referred to as Doctor Ivo Robotnik in Western territories. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Waze

We need to add Sonic The Hedgehog on Waze 73.10.9.90 (talk) 21:56, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2022

I would like to edit because i see wrong in this Susiscool69420 (talk) 17:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Cannolis (talk) 17:51, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Release timeline template

I think the article could use the “Release timeline” template to better show at a glance when each video games in the Sonic series was released. Like a lot of other video game series articles do such as: Spyro, Crash Bandicoot, and Super Mario. CleverFox2 (talk) 07:18, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

There's already even more detailed info than that at List of Sonic the Hedgehog video games Sergecross73 msg me 20:21, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Article restructure

Can someone restructure this article according to MOS:VG? 99.209.40.250 (talk) 15:43, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

The way it's currently structured is perfectly fine. This isn't an individual video game, it's an entire franchise. JOEBRO64 15:46, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
It's currently a Features Article, it doesn't need a restructure... Sergecross73 msg me 15:47, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Sales

The sales chart is missing a huge number of the games including but not limited to Dark Knight, Secret Rings, and Sonic R. Can we add them and get the numbers later? The list just looks really short without those games. 68.52.233.112 (talk) 10:57, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

This is a featured article, and these games have been out for some time - I imagine many aren't listed because we don't have good/any sales figures for them. I don't think we have sales numbers for Sonic R, for example. Sergecross73 msg me 13:14, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

please

can you make a trale for sonic 3 69.92.40.88 (talk) 22:30, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

A trale? Sergecross73 msg me 22:34, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Table of games in "Sales" leaves out Sonic Adventure 2

The table leaves out Sonic Adventure 2 on Dreamcast, showing only its Xbox port. It should be added either as its own row or combined with the Xbox port, since they are really two ports of the same game (despite the battle mode addition) so probably should be combined in one row. As it is though, the dreamcast Sonic Adventure 2 is not in the list at all. mmj (talk) 02:33, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

According to a site cited in the SA2 article (and this one as well), the Dreamcast version sold 918k units in America. I find it a bit hard to believe that a late Dreamcast release sold that well domestically alone, as I'm pretty sure it'd make the game one of the system's bestsellers. The figure also arbitrarily increased by 42k between October 2004 and December 2004, well passed its shelf life, while the Shenmue figure remained the same. And they got the platform wrong. Maybe its supposed to represent the sales of another Sega game, I'm not sure, but I don't think it's a reliable source for SA2's Dreamcast version in particular. Especially when considering that a 2003 NPD spreadsheet gave a much more reasonable figure of 390k.
As for the Japanese sales, the SA2 article cites a Google Sites page operated by one person, so yeah, probably not an appropriate source. Their data seems to be accurate though, as the opening week (84k) and total sales figures (108k) line up with other sources I've located.
So if we're to add the total Japanese sales and NPD figure we'd get 498,771 units, which this Escapist article corroborates. I was worried that the author lifted his information from VGChartz or something but "about 500,000 units" is dead on. No slouch at all for a late Dreamcast title. I know this is a long reply but I was just going to lift the refs from the SA2 page and ended up going down a rabbit hole. LBWP (talk) 02:46, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog

It appears the page update containing the latest game in the Sonic the Hedgehog series was removed by @TheJoebro64 because it “wasn’t significant enough”.

The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog was officially published by SEGA on Steam, received an ESRB rating, a launch trailer, and has received much press - with gameplay overviews - from legitimate organizations like IGN and GameSpot. It’s a legitimate Sonic game in the series and by all objective measures, deserves to be highlighted on this page.

These points objectively highlight why the game deserves to be listed. @TheJoebro64, can you please define the objective criteria that you utilized to justify the decision to remove it? Anwserman (talk) 16:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

None of those points demonstrate notability for Wikipedia — the only thing that matters is coverage in reliable secondary sources.
Here are some we can use: [12], [13], [14] Popcornfud (talk) 16:14, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
It's a free April Fools' Day game that just came out. The History section is meant to be a broad overview of the franchise throughout the years. It's not necessary to document every single Sonic game because that's not the purpose it serves. JOEBRO64 16:16, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
I think it's worth a sentence, but that's it. The "overwhelming positive reviews" bit is overkill, especially considering it it's largely not getting formal reviews. Sergecross73 msg me 16:27, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
The game being new is not relevant - Wikipedia has featured breaking news and stories in the past and although editors taken a guarded approach to such events, the events were not completely ignored.
Also, more recent Sonic games like Forces and to an extent Frontiers have been derided for being low-quality. Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog has been enthusiastically, positively received by fans and is noticeably the first point-and-click visual novel title in the Sonic series. The unique gameplay mechanics alone sets it apart from other games.
As you found high-quality, legitimate citations please update the page to include The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog. Wikipedia is about expanding horizons, not gate-keeping. Anwserman (talk) 16:28, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
No one's trying to gatekeep, it's all about perspective here - we're documenting 32 years of history here, and we're talking about something that happened yesterday. It's a relatively small part of the history, and should be presented as such. Sergecross73 msg me 16:31, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2023

178.77.182.140 (talk) 21:27, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

its bad an ye

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (inquire within) 21:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

reference 424

Screen Rant doesn't specify when they got the $6 billion figure from. Is it possible to remove the $6 billion figure altogether and update the article? Timur9008 (talk) 12:09, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Anyone? I propose we keep the Fortune article source but remove the Screen Rant one since its listed a situational source and I don't think its good when It comes to numbers especially since they probably have gotten the number from Wikipedia itself [15] (The Screen Rant article is from October 10, 2020) Timur9008 (talk) 16:07, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
Pinging TheJoebro64 as the person who could probably best answer your question. Red Phoenix talk 00:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
I'd say remove it, especially if it originates from Jagged 85/Maestro2016. Couldn't find any sources either. JOEBRO64 01:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 Done Timur9008 (talk) 05:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Table of games in Sales leaves out Sonic Forces

In the Sales section it does not mention the 2017 game Sonic Forces. I dont know the exact number of copies it sold, but I estimate that it sold around 1.2 million copies based on the game after it, Sonic Frontiers sold. but if you know the definitive number then please edit Sonic Forces in. Ozzie20101 (talk) 01:29, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. silviaASH (inquire within) 01:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
There aren't really comprehensive sales figures at Sonic Forces and it's a Good Article, so I'm guessing they never really released sales figures for it. I don't think there's any to add. Sergecross73 msg me 01:53, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Keep The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog On The Article's History Section

The game was released officially early this year back in April and is very relevant to the franchise. It is important to keep it on the page. This is the main page of the Sonic The Hedgehog franchise so, we need as much information on this page as we can to give a general view of it. We need to have the game mentioned on this page so, that the page has a direct link to the game's page. Also, omitting a game from the history is like omitting history itself, so it needs a mention. Master106 (talk) 22:10, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't mind the shortest of mentions, but that's it. It's an extremely minor footnote of a massive global franchise. Sergecross73 msg me 22:45, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

"Sonic Chaotic"

While looking through sources for another project I was working on, I stumbled across this title for a Sonic game. As someone who closely follows both Sonic and cancelled video games, I was surprised to hear a name I was unfamiliar with. I'd like to mention it somewhere on Wikipedia, even if its just an alternate name for something we already knew about.

Here's the source that mentioned it - https://www.virtual-boy.com/magazines/electronic-gaming-monthly/issue-66/pdf/

Sonic Chaotic, the working title for Sega's 32X Sonic game, has been in the works for over a year now has a tentative release date of June this year (1995). The soft brings Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Red Sonic (???) together in a title that the Q hears Sega is trying to make strong on play. Sonic Chaotic will be programmed on Silicon Graphics workstations and be the premier title to use a new technology that the big "s" is hoping will knock out Diddy Kong next year.

Sonic Chaos came out in 1993, so its not referring to that. (Zero details correlate with that outside of the similar name.) I suppose it could be in reference to Knuckles Chaotix/Sonic Crackers, but I didn't think that had a very long dev cycle, nor did it usher in a new graphics style. ("Silicon Graphics" in this time period generally meant Donkey Kong Country graphics.) Pretty sure Sonic Mars wasn't in development for that long either. Sonic 3D Blast had the new graphics style, but actual development of that game didn't even start until July 1995.

It could just one of those "crossed wires in the rumor mill" type situations, but I just wanted to check and see. Pinging some of the hardcore Sonic/Sega editors - TheJoebro64, Popcornfud, Red Phoenix, TarkusAB. Let me know if you know anything. Thanks! Sergecross73 msg me 17:12, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Never heard of it, but it must be talking about Chaotix. "Red Sonic" has to be Mighty, whose sprite is just an edited version of the Sonic sprite. Popcornfud (talk) 17:19, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, actually, in the time it took to write that all out, I started to realize that it was probably in reference to Knuckles Chaotix. Chaotix released between April and June 1995. The rumor was likely from between its Sonic Crackers and Knuckles Chaotix phase, and "Chaotic" was probably just the writer's attempt to convey a nonsense word like Chaotix. "Red Sonic" probably means Mighty the Armadillo. DKC graphics was probably just a detail they got wrong. Sorry for the pings, looks like I probably answered my own question. Sergecross73 msg me 17:19, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
No worries, interesting new bit of history there. Popcornfud (talk) 17:22, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
Agreed, interesting if nothing else. Sergecross73 msg me 18:22, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
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