User talk:Doncram/Archive 21

DYK for De Mores Packing Plant Ruins

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of St. Boniface Cemetery, Wrought-Iron Cross Site for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article St. Boniface Cemetery, Wrought-Iron Cross Site is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/St. Boniface Cemetery, Wrought-Iron Cross Site until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

This is going to be a multiple-article submission -- I just used TWINKLE to get things started. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:24, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

BTW, you need to fix the dates, not just the URLs. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:00, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Doncram at it again. Thank you. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:19, 16 July 2012 (UTC) Re: your last post there about mediation. No offense taken. I strive to be fair-minded, but I certainly do have my own feelings on this, and I don't think I'd be sufficiently detached to be a neutral party. I apologize for misrepresenting you—I would be the first to admit I have a very imperfect understanding of your motivations, and sometimes I overstep myself in theorizing about them. In addition, I don't think we agree on the *scope* of any kind of mediation, which would make it very hard to undertake. Unfortunately, I suspect further dispute resolution will be required, but I hope that it won't be on AN/I, which I think has not been helpful to either you or Sarek. Good luck, and thank you for your good faith and hard work improving the encyclopedia. Choess (talk) 02:45, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Your help requested at WP:NRHPFAQ

I can't remember if you were blocked when WP:NRHP's FAQ page was created, but it is now linked from the project main page (although it appears from this site that fewer people visit it than the Style guide or Resources page; not sure how to increase exposure). On the FAQ page, I and some others have included questions we find most frequently asked and included answers with pointers to the other help pages. One of the questions deals with the listing codes given by NRIS/Elkman's infobox generator. I tried explaining what several of these mean in layman's terms, but I believe you are more experienced and knowledgeable about the terms than I am. Could you possibly look into explaining these in detail there? Also, feel free to add any more questions you feel are asked pretty often. Thanks!--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 05:08, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Nice work on C. Ferris White

Two good sources besides the NRIS, all the listed properties clearly associated with him... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:00, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Albermarle Building

Hello. I've userfied the article for you at User:Doncram/Albemarle Building. It's just a stub and you don't appear to have edited it in the past. When you're done with it, let me know and I'll delete it (unless you want it restored as an article, of course). Cheers, Whouk (talk) 13:15, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I just noticed its deletion from Albemarle Building, and requested your copying it to me. Thanks for responding promptly. Offhand, it looks like a significant work of architect William van Alen and that it could be mentioned at the architect page, in context with other comparable works, in which case this Albemarle Building could be restored but redirected. I might edit at the van Alen page later. Thanks. --doncram 13:30, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Evil. Thank you. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:07, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

• Why would you want to make comments like these? Even if you are right on the content of the dispute, the language is seriously uncivil. Drmies (talk) 15:52, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

• I have made a proposal at the pending ANI discussion. Please consider whether it is accepable to you and respond here if you agree. Cbl62 (talk) 17:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Sargent County Courthouse

I looked at this article, which is your most recent new article. It looks good. Infobox and citations solid. There's enough information to make it useful beyond what some call a "sub-stub." I also though Sarek's one edit was a helpful one. Cbl62 (talk) 17:43, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

• Pembina County Courthouse also looks quite good. Cbl62 (talk) 17:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

• I reworded the description of the La Moure County Courthouse. Let me know if you think I've gotten anything wrong there. Cbl62 (talk) 18:14, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

• Also did some rewording of the description of Richland County Courthouse (North Dakota) and added a photo from Wikimedia Commons. Cbl62 (talk) 18:26, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Pierce County Courthouse (North Dakota)

Newly provide pic for Pierce County Courthouse (North Dakota)

The source material refers to the wainscotting as "dark red," not purple. What is your reason for referring to it as purple? Also, what is the reason for the "photo caption" notation? Finally, not sure why you've included a snippet on the interior wainscotting but nothing on the exterior description, columns, dome, etc. I understand we make judgments about which elements to mention, but the limited focus on the wainscotting struck me in this case. Cbl62 (talk) 17:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Admittedly that factoid at Pierce County Courthouse (North Dakota) is just one among many that could be mentioned in the article; it happened to jump out at me. I refined the reference just now to clarify further that the source is from a photo caption within the accompanying photos PDF, rather than from the main text PDF. I don't mind if you choose to mention other facts about that particular courthouse in addition to or instead of that one.

Thank you for the interest in these recent articles. I have other obligations right now so won't be able to respond immediately to further notes/questions on these that you might have, but I will respond to any specific questions later/eventually. Thanks. --doncram 18:37, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Cbl62 for your further development of text and sources and other development for this article, among others. IMHO you are going beyond the call of duty. On the picture development front, the addition of pic for the Pierce County courthouse, not previously available for wikipedia, is great. I'm curious why the pic-related info doesn't show your making the pic contribution. Or it is not pure coincidence that someone else provided this pic on July 21, 2012? I added the pic just now also to List of RHPs in ND. Thank you. --doncram 09:24, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I did upload the pic, but did so at Wikimedia Commons since it's clearly a PD image. Full upload details are found there. Cbl62 (talk) 22:39, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Henry Whitestone

There seems to be overlap between the newly-created Henry Whitestone article and the Luckett and Farley#The Whitestone Period article. Not sure if you were aware of the latter before creating the former. The latter has a pretty detailed biographical summary on Whitestone -- more fully developed than the new article. Should the new article be a redirect with any additional information merged there? Take a look, and let me know what you think. Cbl62 (talk) 21:20, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks; i was not previously aware of the Luckett and Farley article with its section on "The Whitestone Period". There's info about Whitestone before his association with Luckett and Farley, before he came to Kentucky from Ireland, such as his contribution to County Clare Courthouse, Ireland, with likly-wikipedia-notable architect J.B. Deane, which seems more appropriately expanded in a separate article. Also the Luckett and Farley article would not be improved by addition of the detailed list of Whitestone's works, currently mostly redlinks, in the Whitestone article. That would be incompatible with the writing style of the Luckett and Farley article, I think.

I think the Henry Whitestone article should be expanded to include much or all of that section's information, and a "main article" link or other link should be added to the Luckett and Farley section to point to the main (new) article on Whitestone. The Luckett and Farley could be left much the same or perhaps reduced. The current redlinks in the Whitestone article should be created as articles. which I may yet get around to doing. That's what I think. :) --doncram 20:34, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

C. Ferris White

I added some content to your article on C. Ferris White and have nominated it for DYK at Template:Did you know nominations/C. Ferris White. Cbl62 (talk) 06:57, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

you and Cbl62

I like watching the collaboration between you two. I'd enjoy working in that kind of atmosphere. What would be the best way for me to help? Lvklock (talk) 16:16, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've been starting articles indexed from List of RHPs in ND and have almost finished starting the courthouse ones, relating to 2 MPS documents. Maybe start same for a different set of similar things in ND, perhaps another MPS? Maybe review other recently started ones for a possible DYK, e.g. Fort Dilts or Name Rock perhaps, to work on together? I would notice if you add to either. --doncram 17:12, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Remind me what the policy on using pics from Flickr is. Lvklock (talk) 20:23, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Answering per Doncram's request. Commons:Flickr files has all the information. I have only done this for Flickr's Commons Photos but it can be done for others with a free-enough license tag. KudzuVine (talk)

Architecture categories

I removed an insulting message here. There is some discussion at User talk:Nyttend#architecture categories. Constructive others' comments there would be appreciated. --doncram 04:40, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Nonfree content at C. Ferris White

I strongly encourage you to refrain from using replaceable nonfree content, as you did at C. Ferris White; Wikipedia:Non-free content prohibits using replaceable nonfree content, and I urge you to begin following policy so that other editors don't have to do this to produce a policy-compliant article. Nyttend (talk) 04:38, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Nyttend, I removed an insulting statement you had made in the section just above, in edit conflict to seeing this new section. I completely disagree with you view about free content. I restored the C. Ferris White article's quotes. Please don't edit war and please don't insult me. If you want to discuss that article, i suggest Talk:C. Ferris White. Please allow me to consider your removal as Bold step, which I reverted, in wp:BRD process. --doncram 04:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Categories are a matter for discussion. Repeated addition of replaceable nonfree content is not; it is grounds for blocking, and any more addition of it will result in my requesting that you be blocked for copyright violation. Nyttend (talk) 04:49, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Nyttend, I think your behavior here, with threat of blocking, is rude and not called for. I disagree with your view about the C. Ferris White article. You are mistaken on a number of levels, including that the short quotes constitute a copyright violation and that I put in the content that you now dispute. I did restore it, in first reaction to your aggressive and in-my-view ill-informed judgement. Your bringing this up in an insulting way, piling on after putting in another insult regarding a different article which i already removed from this talk page, seems like retaliation or wikihounding or other behavior that ought not be seen here. --doncram 06:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

See/continue at Talk:C. Ferris White where there is some further discussion about the use of quotes in that article. --doncram 14:36, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

• . The threat to block doncram on the example given is wholly baseless for reasons given at the article talk page, including 1) the quotes were not added by doncram, and 2) the quotes are from a 1912 public domain source. Cbl62 (talk) 15:57, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

• I'm sorry; I failed to notice that the quotes were from 1912. It would have helped if you had observed that to me; I disagree that my words are "less nice" than the quotes, but it's nothing I care about, and I would have dropped the issue immediately had I realised that or had you mentioned it to me. Nyttend (talk) 22:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Mail call

Hello, Doncram. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Renaming proposal

Hello, Doncram, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia!

I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you worked on, The Glebe (Arlington, Virginia), for renaming because I don't think the current name describes the subject well. Please come join the discussion here.

Thanks again for contributing! Argos'Dad 19:04, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

List of Masonic buildings in the United States

Thank you for the encouraging words. It's nice when somebody notices. And even thinks you got it right. Cheers! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:34, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Palliser info

Thought you might find this book useful for expanding the Palliser article. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks i guess. Question, though, since I've seen you edit down Google book URLs with some apparent skill before, how would that be converted to a proper reference? Or for another example, this Google book reference for new Omeyer & Thori architect article:<ref name=hesslarson>{{cite web |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=XJpU3PKUiG8C&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=omeyer+thori&source=bl&ots=0O2MyFJYoz&sig=1DttjeKAiWA9kk1b5Q74cXgW9UI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RNgTUO5xr8rQAbzvgPgI&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=omeyer%20thori&f=false |title=St. Paul's Architecture |author=Hess and Larson}}</ref>{{rp|68}}

which displays as:

It appears to me that the URL which I paste from the results of a Google search is basically going to replicate the search. It would seem better to link to a specific, unchanging location, but I don't know how to reduce the URL down. --doncram 12:53, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

My experience suggests that all you really need is the Book ID and the page number. http://books.google.com/books?id=XJpU3PKUiG8C&pg=PA68 should take you right to the page you need -- I used the entire link above because there were multiple useful locations in that search. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:46, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

North Dakota NRHPs

None of the pics are mine, actually; they're all from the links on this site, which is run by someone else and is a very useful site for finding pictures of rural ND and MN. I've actually never even been to the state. There aren't any articles in particular that I want to start, so you can go ahead and start them if you want; if I see anything that I want to work on later, I can always expand your article. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 22:30, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad you're finding my photography useful. I noticed that the list on afiler.com was terribly out-of-date -- it had only 192 places listed, when I've actually photographed all 900+ of the places in North Dakota in the USGS place name database. I've updated it now. It's not quite complete, but it's much closer (there are about 875 places listed now, I'll have to dig up the rest). - Afiler (talk) 01:12, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

ND archeological sites

Simple google searches turned up some basic information about six of the seven sites you mentioned. I've added some of that info to the stubs you created. These examples show that, even where the NRHP nomination form isn't available, enough information can often be found to create a decent starter article. If you could take just a few minutes to do these types of searches, it would avoid the issues that have caused so much consternation among many NRHP editors. The one site for which I could not find any further information was the Myers School Timbered Lodge (32BI401). Cbl62 (talk) 05:38, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Seiler Building

Your most recent North Dakota NRHP articles have some long-ish quotations from the NRHP nomination forms. Given the concerns expressed about "fair use" of excerpts from such sources (see Talk:C. Ferris White), it would be a prudent idea for you to shorten these quotes and try to put the key points into your own words where possible. I don't have time to rework them all, but you can take a look at what I did on Seiler Building as an example. Cbl62 (talk) 05:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

A follow up on Bwilkins

Please see User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#A_follow_up_on_Bwilkins. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Sons of Norway Building (Minneapolis, Minnesota) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Sons of Norway Building (Minneapolis, Minnesota) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sons of Norway Building (Minneapolis, Minnesota) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 18:54, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Swasey

Pretty sure it's spelled with an "s" -- see https://www.google.com/search?q=Hartwell+%26+Swasey&tbm=bks. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:20, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Tyler City Hall

The article Tyler City Hall has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The fact that it's listed as a historic place alone doesn't make it notable.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Dusti^*poke* 21:52, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Ramey House

The new article you crated on Ramey House says it was built in 1903 and designed by Shirley Simons. Simons wasn't born until 1897. So something isn't right. Cbl62 (talk) 19:41, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

• This source provides the answer. The house was extensively remodeled in 1935. Simons did the remodel. Cbl62 (talk) 19:43, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
• Similar problem with Everitt-Cox House. Built in 1890s but attributed to Simons. Cbl62 (talk) 20:18, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your attention to those two articles. That kind of mistake will happen in starter articles as a function of limitations in the NRIS database and in user/programming interfaces thereto. I note the "NRHP.COM" webpage only identifies that the Ramey House was significant during 1900-1925, per http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/tx/Smith/state.html. I note that the most popular NRHP article-generator (or NRHP article support tool) available identifies the Ramey House with "Year of construction: 1903" and with "built = 1903". The interpretation there is that the first event of significance date given in NRIS equals the built date, which is sometimes wrong. Sometimes the first event of significance for a church, for example, is the date of founding of an associated cemetery, while the NRHP listing is primarily for a surviving church building that was built later. It is a common assumption, most usually correct, that the first NRIS-given event date is a "date built". Only the first date is reported by the most commonly used NRHP article support tool. Another common assumption, most usually correct, is to assume that a named architect designed the given building.

There are some possible general remedies to the problem of exceptions. Remedy 1 is to pay attention to probable anomalies, like you identified here, where there was a discrepancy between the architect lifespan and the given built date. Perhaps a bot run could be requested/programmed to identify such discrepancies in already-started articles, now that a large number of NRHP architects have been identified and are linked to NRHP articles, including many architect articles created by me, many of which you have improved.

Remedy 2: Another partial remedy is to create bio articles and identify birth-to-death dates of the most commonly named NRHP architects, engineers, builders, in order to support Remedy 1. As you know I am working in a big program to do that, and recruiting others at wt:NRHP.

Remedy 3: Another is to take care to check corresponding NRHP nomination documents, when those are available, at the time of infobox addition or article creation. The documents were not available online for these two examples. I mostly focus my article creation by geographic area, where NRHP documents are available, but I also create articles deliberately to support architect/engineer/builder bio articles, as part of Remedy 2, as I did here. In some other articles I created recently, I specifically noted in the NRHP nom doc that the first event date was the beginning date of a construction period, for example, and I addressed that in the article at the first opportunity. For example, Alpine LDS Church Meetinghouse.

Remedy 4: Another is to run a big campaign to obtain and use NRIS database reports giving multiple event dates. From my experience, for the vast majority of single date NRHP entries, the date given is a built date. There are substantial numbers of NRHP places having multiple date entries, however, where the first date is relatively likely to be something else, such as the beginning date in a construction range, e.g. 1857-1863. Other date entries are the ending of construction period or the date of signicant renovation. For the Ramey House, I believe that 1935 is another significant date given.

I would very much support having a big campaign to improve accuracy in wikipedia articles on these points, and I am contributing to that by pursuing partial Remedy 2. I believe it would be more productive to engage in Remedy 1 and Remedy 4 after making further progress in the architects/engineers/builder article development remedy.

I comment a bit extensively here to respond to what-seemed-to-me-to-be snarky, cowardly commenting elsewhere by another editor (no explicit naming or diffs needed, thank you very much). Thank you Cbl62 for your decency and constructive interaction, such as by your doing research and sharing it straightforwardly, consistent with collaborative, collegial development on these topic areas. Sincerely, --doncram 22:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

quiestion

hi.how can i translete english wikipedia to persian wikipedia very fast? my language is persian and i live in iran. you can ask this question , help me very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Milad77 (talk • contribs) 20:15, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Milad77. I suggest you try the Google translator function. For example, I just tried translating English "Hi, my name is Mark" into Persian, and get " سلام اسم من علامت گذاری بفرم است " as a result. http://translate.google.com/#auto/fa/hello%20my%20name%20is%20Mark. Does this help you? --doncram 20:36, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Robert and Company

A tag has been placed on Robert and Company requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. JetBlast (talk) 22:53, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Kept. --doncram 05:57, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Pictures and words

(from my talk page): I am glad you like the pictures. They have been on Flickr for over a year. I thought it was time they were moved for article use here, and before the picture drive next month; they might spare someone some time. I am also about to add book refs to one of the articles (Captain Kidd? Wonderful!), having tracked them down online after finding them listed in the NRHP nomination. I hope this is acceptable to you. One Fat Squirrel (talk) 06:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Mather House (Case Western Reserve University) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Mather House (Case Western Reserve University) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mather House (Case Western Reserve University) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. GrapedApe (talk) 12:25, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Kept. --doncram

Templates nominated for deletion

Template:WINRHPDate and Template:National Register of Historic Places in Wisconsin topnav have been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the templates' entry on the Templates for discussion page. DH85868993 (talk) 10:26, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Irritating to me, how the discussion went: someone didn't understand what I said, didn't wait for a response from me, and then it was deleted. Oh well. --doncram 05:57, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI

Your name is mentioned at ANI in the new section Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#A_new_wrinkle_on_personal_attacks? that I just started. --Orlady (talk) 17:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I've restored the talk page comment for Harmony, Florida that you had no right whatsoever to remove. If you have a problem with that or the original posting, file an official complaint. --Calton | Talk 18:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Calton's restoring Orlady's talk page comment. There is no ban on Orlady making comments. There is only a voluntary agreement to keep distance. While I think the agreement has been helpful, it is not something that you can enforce by removing Orlady's comments. I note, too, that Orlady's comment was actually supportive of your position. This may actually have been intended as an olive branch of sorts. The voluntary separation is not going to be permanent, and (as difficult as this might be) you need to take care in not overreacting to comments by Orlady or Sarek. Cbl62 (talk) 19:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Cbl62, but what a crock of shit, to suggest an olive branch out of that editor opening an ANI proceeding, in which fairly predictably some editors will call for blocking or other actions which seem ridiculous in larger context, but which can seem attractive to some within the craziness of ANI. And what a crock, also, that some were taken in by the idea that the editor is obligated by an emailed invitation to comment. Why was the editor invited, if not to exploit apparent differences in values between that editor and me, and that editor's willingness to contend actively against me. The point of the editor butting in was to assert the right to butt in, more than any attempt to help; the "help" was clearly not needed and the editor had other alternatives, such as simply to respond by email to the request.

If the point was an olive branch, that is a strange way to proceed, to drag me through that muck again. I would strongly prefer that the editor leave me alone and have repeatedly asked for that. The editor understands, and yet persists. I assume you see the damage done to me by the repeated ANI proceedings. Obviously many ANI participants/voters form their opinions going on simple cues, and it is an effective strategy in long-term battling to drag an editor down by multiple ANIs on frivolous grounds. This new ANI is costly to me, seems to cost them nothing.

I also object to the editing of that last ANI proceeding by the other involved editor, who changed the presentation of the ANI in the permanent record, by an edit multiple hours (17:42, 18 August 2012 vs. 13:25, 18 August 2012‎) after it was closed (in this diff with edit summary conveying that the edit was intended not to raise any issue but rather was specifically to change the permanent appearance). The closing had been reasonable and had "stuck": it had successfully ended the discussion. As ANI closings go it was relatively favorable for me, basically accepting my response to the ANI proceeding. You probably saw the closed discussion (e.g. as here in the ANI just before that diff), as did i. It was a surprise to me later/now to refer to the archive and find it altered, unclosed. See archived version. Removing the closing hurt me in the permanent record. Even if it is acceptable to dispute a closed ANI discussion, I would think an unclosing should preserve the closing comments and view expressed by the closer, which were eradicated. There is no way that either of these editors should be opening ANI proceedings or editing my comments in them or making edits to "refactor" discussion (all of which they have done previously) or to change the overall appearance in the permanent record (as was done here). This action gives the appearance that the two editors are tag-teaming to make me look bad, in what amounts to a vendetta. I believe they should walk away and avoid those appearances. --doncram 19:13, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Previous request

No, I was serious. I wanted an article on the Grand, but I felt too close to the subject to do a good job.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 02:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Nice stub. I'll see what I can find for local offline references in the near future. I'll be down there tomorrow for a client, so I'll try to swing by with my camera and get outdoor shots, at least.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:08, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Whatever. That was about request, and reply by me, which i deleted here. I since created The Grand (Ellsworth, Maine). About a new listings source question on that article, as the NRHP reference number does not yet appear where I anticipated it would, see also User talk:Sanfranman59#new listings source question. --doncram 15:53, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

FYI

I mentioned you at Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Simple_way_to_cite_National_Register_of_Historic_Places.3F --SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

year categories in historic districts

I started using that longer wording in edit summaries, as I recall, after there was some confusion about the simple comment. So I guess both approaches are problematic. And you are correct, the dates for buildings should be on the article, if it exists, or on a redirect, if that exists. Also the data can not be removed from all district articles since the text for some implies or clearly states that they were completed in a single year. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:52, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Continuing at User talk:Vegaswikian#year categories in historic districts. --doncram 01:33, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Discussion was archived at User talk:Vegaswikian/Archives/2012#year categories in historic districts. --doncram 05:57, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Wisconsin Barnstar

		The WikiProject Wisconsin Barnstar
		Thank you for starting articles about the National Register of Historic Places sites in Wisconsin

Nearly final warning

This is your nearly-final warning; if you do not cease from the disruptively mindless creation of articles such as Defiance Public Library or Cranmer House (Denver, Colorado), completely lacking information such as the photos others have provided, I will seek a complete page-creation topic ban. Nyttend (talk) 23:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Nyttend, I do not understand, not at all, what is your concern. It seems completely bizarre to me, for you to suggest that a new article is "disruptive" because it does not include a certain photograph. If you could explain, with reference to any Wikipedia policy or guideline whatsoever, I would welcome trying to understand your perspective. Anyhow, given your hint that there exist photos, i went and found and added one photo to each article. Thanks, I guess, for contributing to that improvement of the articles, though I don't understand why you would not just add them yourself, which you were free to do. --doncram 00:57, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Nyttend's "Nearly final warning" strikes me as unwarranted. Doncram has made substantial progress in improving the quality of his new articles over the past month and has made some excellent contributions. The articles referenced above were all created today and are in the process of being improved as part of an overall effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the noted Colorado architect Jacques Benedict. These things take time, and the warning given here strikes me as, at a minimum, seriously premature. Also, there is no requirement to search for photographs before creating an article. Photographs are most helpful to articles on NRHP sites, but I don't see that a new article creator is obliged to search for them the instant an article is created, nor how failure to do so warrants such a dire warning. Cbl62 (talk) 01:16, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I support Cbl62's comments above 100%, but in addition want to make the following comment:

Nyttend, Doncram has made many contributions to numerous similar articles, and I am not sure what it is (his style?) that seems to rub some editors the wrong way when they first cross paths with him. I know because I had a similar feeling way back years ago the first time he and I crossed paths. However, we have been able to work together just fine ever since. I guess it is probably that editors maybe fail to assume good faith when Doncram first makes a move that is the first move a "new" (new in Doncram's "path") editor comes across with. As the saying goes, "First impressions have lasting effects", and editors may get the wrong image of Doncram when they first "meet" him. But I have found Doncram to be easy to work with, compassionate, understanding, and accomodating once he realizes you mean to work with him rather than against him. He seems to pick up quickly on the egotistical motives (WP:OWN, etc.) of other editors, and that may be guiding his choice of words etc when communicating with others.

But Nyttend, anyone -- even Santa Claus if he showed up to edit Wikipedia -- can "seek a complete page-creation topic ban" on another editor,,, but it does not mean it will be granted to you. And after reviewing Doncran's edits and your edits (Nyttend's) to the two article's you listed above, I suggest you abandon your above threat, promise, warning, -- whatever you may want to call it -- as unachivable. I do not see anything in Doncram's edits or in those interactions with him that might indicate he has violated any policy. (If anything, your such ban request might itself be considered disruptive if it will meritlessly take other editors' time that could have been more productively invested in developing the Encyclopedia.) Your objections to Doncram's recent edits in those 2 articles, on the other hand, appear to be the result of your own past unresolved friction with Doncram's work, as evidenced, for example, [HERE] and [HERE]. And, after all, the whole thing appears to have been a misunderstanding.

You will both show more maturity, if you both seek to bury the hatchet and put the past in the past. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 22:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.

Proposed deletion of Walter Mickle Smith

The article Walter Mickle Smith has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:BIO, no reliable independent sources pay any attention to this person. He was the engineer of some now registered projects, that doesn't mean that he is a notable engineer or architect though.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Fram (talk) 13:36, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I removed the PROD. It was AFD'd. Decision was to KEEP the article. --doncram 05:57, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Joangrayphotography

Thanks for taking that on, much appreciated. Acroterion (talk) 21:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

That regarded contacting a new Oregon editor and WLM photographer whose work was being deleted. I restored 3 or 4 articles, and later added more pics by that contributor. --doncram 05:57, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to comment at Monty Hall problem RfC

You are invited to comment on the following probability-related RfC:

Talk:Monty Hall problem#Conditional or Simple solutions for the Monty Hall problem?

--Guy Macon (talk) 17:13, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Curtiss & Bright, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Pigsonthewing just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Please consider adding {{Infobox company}}

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Thanks. A fine idea, though I don't have enough information yet to fill out many fields of that infobox, once I look at it. Am copying this note to Talk:Curtiss & Bright. --doncram 14:16, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Sandbox

Your User:Doncram/Sandbox9 page creates a bunch of maintenance errors. That is why I blanked it. Can you rewrite it so that it is invisible to WP maintenance pages? Cheers.. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:18, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what you are talking about. But, for how I am using that page, it doesn't matter for me if it is commented out, as I just edited it now. Does that resolve your issues? Either way, some explanation would be appreciated. --doncram 21:40, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Like I said it turned up in maint pages such Category:WikiProject banners with formatting errors and stub categories, as well as content categories. Commenting it out solved the problem. Cheers. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:56, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Military history coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators (about the project • what coordinators do) 08:56, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating John J. Hill, Doncram!

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Great page. Carry on being awesome :)

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A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Alfred and Rosy Skinner House, Doncram!

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Teahouse question up your alley

You are invited to weigh in at Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Pdf_documentation_from_National_Register_of_Historic_places_-_what_to_do_with_it--SPhilbrick(Talk) 00:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Pdf documentation from National Register of Historic places - what to do with it

Hello it was suggested that i talk with you about the following question. i also have this question into the commons help page. while working on my article on Brow Monument[1] it was suggested that I contact the National Register people to see if they had the nomination papers for the monument. they finally got back to me with 23 pages of pdf documentation. This is all very interesting stuff that includes old photos and maps and the nomination information itself. However, I have been told that all of it is on an in-house server in Washington DC to which the public does not/can not have easy access. it took me over a week to get the files. Any suggestions as to how to handle this pile of information? I believe that my article includes most of the pertinent data (but i'll look over the pdfs to see if there is something missing) but I think the pdfs are extremely useful to anyone wanting to do serious research and somewhere in the wiki world i read that source information - or even cited information - should be easily obtainable by the reader which this may or may not be depending on the definition of easy. It is all department of Interior documentation so there should be no problem of it being in the public domain although someone will have to advise me a bit on that. thanks bill polk Abearfellow (talk) 01:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I responded to this at Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Pdf_documentation_from_National_Register_of_Historic_places_-_what_to_do_with_it and much the same question was also asked and addressed at wt:NRHP. --doncram 05:57, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Big Thompson River Bridge III

Bridge III was refurbished, and the trusses at the side were removed. Here's is a picture of the bridge before the refurbishment. You can see how the pillar matches the one in my picture.

Also, the location matches the coordinates given on the NRHP page for Larimer County, and you can look at street view to confirm.

The same story is true for both bridges. Jeffrey Beall (talk) 01:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

So, following your line of thinking, a house on the NRHP that gets a new roof or new siding should be de-listed because it's been altered. I guess you have a lot of pictures and articles to edit then. Both of my pictures are of the correct bridges; the bridges have just been repaired / remodeled. I don't believe that you have the authority to delist NRHP properties. I request that you revert my pictures and the corresponding articles to their original state, especially since you admit that you yourself are unable to find the correct bridges to photograph.

The new article looks really good. Nice work. Thanks, Jeffrey Beall (talk) 12:23, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Location location

Hey there. I very much like the fact that you are into documenting smaller places. I love it as well. However, could you please at least provide a county or gnis reference for some of your aticles? Otherwise, all that would happen is that we would have thousands of articles saying, any name I want is a place in fill in the blank US state and thats not really hard to do or useful really. IF you want any help or links or methods or anything, let me know, I would be delighted to help. You can take a look at Olmstead KY as an example.Coal town guy (talk) 13:55, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah, yes, sure, i do mean to get county at least into new geo stub articles that I sometimes create. Mainly when i create a geo stub I will be putting a fully referenced mention of a NRHP-listed place into the article, and I can/should provide county in the earliest edits. Olmstead, Kentucky was the one you mention, to which i have just added more, but where i had omitted county; Selma, Arkansas is another that I did put county into. Those geo stubs were started by me to clear redlinks from list-article List of Rosenwald schools, by the way.

I'll comment further that whatever documentation I add that a place is "populated place", is documentation that often/usually gets ripped out and replaced by a more official-looking GNIS reference. I think that's fine. I predict that's what will happen for Selma, Arkansas, which currently has a hometownlocator.com reference that was just put in by me. I'm not averse to providing better GNIS references, but i don't happen to find it as easy as running google search and finding the hometownlocator one. I tend not to want to put in effort on that aspect, which specialists (including you i guess), do better. Thanks for improving the Olmstead geo stub, and thanks for your general interest! --doncram 14:51, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Coolio, as a note, its not a good thing to rely on home town locator as it is at times, well, to be kind, wrong. My slice of heaven is KY, WV and PA and all of the coal towns there, hence my clever user name coal town guy. BUT hey, its a hobby. My concern is that alot of folks just put the articles up for speedy deletion and boom, alot of work for squat.Coal town guy (talk) 15:24, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Valentine House, Essex

The article Valentine House, Essex has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Seems to be questionable. The House is a baronetcy or estate? No. The Baronetcy is the baronetcy. The house may be part of the estate. Bottom line, until there is more info, if we nned to cover this we could do so at the BB page.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Tagishsimon (talk) 13:53, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't object to covering it at the Burrell baronets page. Have just edited there, and will redirect to there, myself. I'd like for a redirect to exist, keeping this item within Valentine House (disambiguation). Thanks for your attention to this. --doncram 14:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks on Beefhide

The new article looks good and I wanted to say thanks. Matter of fact, I have family from the area of Beefhide.......I sincerely appreciate your efforts!Coal town guy (talk) 21:11, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Good, I am glad you like what has been developed from our edits. That is about Beefhide, Kentucky which seems to span 2 counties, and it stemmed from discussion at another user talk page that was perhaps finally ended now. Thanks and no hard feelings i hope, not from me anyhow. --doncram 23:49, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Pence Automobile Company Warehouse, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Sfan00 IMG just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Suggest expansion of why building is notable, perhaps through more extensive use of the NHRP record linked.

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A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Long, Lamoreaux & Long, Doncram!

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Thanks, hope to contribute more photos

Thanks! I hope to contribute more to the new historic places photo project, esp. in upstate NY. I have a bunch of CC licensed interior photos of house #3 in the Rutger-Steuben_Park_Historic_District up on my flickr from a 2012 event, and I would like to share, but don't know if I should start a new article on the house or not as I see that the Rutger-Steuben_Park_Historic_District is NOT on the list of National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Oneida_County,_New_York for some reason. Do you know why? You look like a good person to ask about this. --Eredien (talk) 00:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

(stalker commenting) Rutger-Steuben is there. Do a phrase search (Ctrl + F?) for Rutger, it will be the second find.  Thundersnow  01:26, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

James Campbell Hopkins

Could you please refrain from messing about in Wikipedia. Feel free to add info but do not move articles unnecessarily to names that are contrary to Wiki guidelines. Naming conventions say that the name of the article should be the name under which the person was commonly known, in this case "James C. Hopkins" as you yourself acknowledge. It is against the general guideline to move the article to "James Campbell Hopkins", and it is unhelpful, and causes unnecessary link-fixing to redirect "John C. Hopkins" to "John Hopkins". I will request this to be undone, and please, once again, in the future think twice about it, or consult me, before wasting my time again. And, don't ask me for a link, as a Master Editor you will find it in a second at WP:MoS. Kraxler (talk) 01:47, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, it seems to me that James C. Hopkins needs to be a disambiguation page as it is now, so the James Campbell Hopkins person can be covered at James C. Hopkins (lawyer), to which i just moved the article, but not at the original "James C. Hopkins". I moved it to "James Campbell Hopkins" to make way for the disambiguation page. If you wish for a different disambuating phrase, or to put it back at "James Campbell Hopkins", I would not object. Please do let me know of any Requested Move process that you open. --doncram 04:21, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Northwest Marietta Historic District, Doncram!

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Nice stub!

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Talkback

Hello, Doncram. You have new messages at Mootros's talk page.
Message added 04:03, 26 September 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Mootros (talk) 04:03, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Ways to improve Bannister Hall and Baynard House

Hi, I'm Horrifico. Doncram, thanks for creating Bannister Hall and Baynard House!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. This article is absolutely unnecessary.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. —Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Bannister Hall and Baynard House

Hello Doncram,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Bannister Hall and Baynard House for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, Welcome to HorrorLand, where nightmares come to life! 14:11, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Kilham & Hopkins for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kilham & Hopkins is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kilham & Hopkins until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. UsedEdgesII (talk) 17:01, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Schick-Ostolasa Farmstead, Doncram!

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Nice article!

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A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Walker-Broderick House, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Amire80 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thank you for writing the article. Can you please a more direct link to this building's entry in National Register of Historic Places?

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Speedy deletion nomination of Esenwein & Johnson

Hello Doncram,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Esenwein & Johnson for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, Jschnur (talk) 04:43, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Your page creations

"What is going on?"

I gave you a custom uw-create3 for the creation of inappropriate pages already; you may consider this your uw-create4. Despite your extensive block for disruption, including inappropriate page creation, and despite many warnings, you continue creating pages that do not fit our inclusion standards. As you saw from the deletion log, these pages have nothing substantive; pages created simply to support another page without information that belongs to them have no substantive content. Meanwhile, redirects to the company article for other houses are inappropriate, because the company is not the house in question. Because you've asked, I've restored the page histories; they're at User:Doncram/sandbox extra; you may feel free to move them into mainspace once you've made them decent articles. Right now, the histories are all merged together, because separate pages would have taken too long, and I need to be at work in a few minutes. You may expect a history split later today, so that you can develop the articles separately; if I forget, feel free to bug me. Nyttend (talk) 12:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Unlike you, I don't have time to read four kilobytes of talk page messages completely. A list of works is not appropriate for a redirect target; what would you think if someone redirected random articles to their county lists? Because people searching for these topics are not looking for the company, these links are implausible. As I said above, pages without substantive content are subject to speedy deletion and thus not acceptable by our policies. My lunch break is nearly over, so I'll get back to you later on the history splitting; I intentionally merged them, not to cause you problems or anything, but so that I could get everything in one place temporarily. Nyttend (talk) 17:49, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Check back at User:Doncram/sandbox extra; splitting is done. Nyttend (talk) 00:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to tell you — there are a bunch of deleted edits, but they're exclusively the remnants of my pagemoves. Everything is now visible that was in mainspace before I deleted these pages. Nyttend (talk) 00:20, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Van Ryn & Gelleke

Hello Doncram,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Van Ryn & Gelleke for deletion, because it doesn't appear to contain any encyclopedic content. Take a look at our suggestions for essential content in short articles to learn what should be included.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, Welcome to HorrorLand, where nightmares come to life! 19:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Goldschmidt

No point — the contents were a stub tag and two categories. Timshuwy created it, and the only other edit was someone adding a deletion tag. Nyttend (talk) 22:42, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

mail

Hello, Doncram. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Union, Pennsylvania

What's your source that says Union, Pennsylvania is the community at the Union County end of the Allenwood River Bridge? Both the GNIS and the third reference of the bridge's article suggest that community is Allenwood, Pennsylvania, and I can't find any evidence of a Union in that area. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 21:34, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Actually i was getting rid of a redlink, was expecting gnis experts to put the info in. Does this provide what you need? --doncram 21:42, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

More specifically, it is in the NRIS database of NRHP places, that the bridge is in two places, one being Union PA. That NRIS info is reflected in List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Pennsylvania and in Groton Bridge Co. articles. It is possible the NRIS information is not correct, if you are questioning it; it usually is correct but not always. I notice on my watchlist that you followed up upon Milltown, Tennessee stub just now, which I created on similar basis. --doncram 21:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Your first link only mentions Union Township, Union County, Pennsylvania, which is in a different part of the county. I also looked up the NRIS listing, and the listing for the bridge only mentions Allenwood, so it appears that Union got added to the bridge list by mistake at some point. Union also isn't mentioned in either National Register of Historic Places listings in Union County, Pennsylvania or National Register of Historic Places listings in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania. The GNIS does mention "Union Town" as an alternate name for Allenwood, so that could be where "Union" came from. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 22:49, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Architects and such

You know, it's Wikipedia, so I try not to take stuff too personally these days - if I see something drastic, I'll make a note on the talk page so other editors can see what I thought and move on - I don't have nearly the time required to chase after destroyers of worlds - if I can help it. Things are going to get ripped apart, I'll live :-) The architects mostly come from NRHP entries, maybe a few other places. Thanks for starting up the Booten article. Your hard work is appreciated. IvoShandor (talk) 16:44, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Good, thanks! (That was about Joseph F. Booton article, started by me recently, which was on IvoShandor's to do list, it turned out.) --doncram 16:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating John Krim, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Horrifico just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

I'm afraid to do anything else other than mark this as reviewed..... I'm worried that if I mark it as advertising, I'll get banned.... again. But.. Is this advertising?

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John Welch (architect)

Hi there. You just created that page, but the reference you added is broken, because there is no "original" reference with the actual source details. Not sure if you cut and pasted something wrong, or what happened, but maybe you still have the source information and can add it back to the article? Cheers. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 18:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Torchiest. I think your comment was after the very first edit; it has been developed somewhat and I think but am not sure your issue was resolved. Please be specific about which reference you question, if you still do. Otherwise I'll assume this is resolved. Thanks for your interest! --doncram 18:41, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I may not have been clear enough. Just look at the references section the first version and you'll see what I mean. There just wasn't any content for the "nris" tag initially. You did fix it in your next edit though, so no worries. Cheers. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 18:58, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ways to improve Bear Lake County Courthouse

Hi, I'm Smd49. Doncram, thanks for creating Bear Lake County Courthouse!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Nice use of images, but it would be good to have a little more information about the building.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. —Preceding undated comment added 21:02, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi back. It wasn't exactly correct to give it an "orphan" tag saying it was not linked from any other articles; it was and is linked from a list of NRHP listings in its county. But i edited the article and linked it to, and also linked back from, the Truman O. Angell article. Thanks for caring! --doncram 21:20, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Red links help the Wikipedia grow

You are correct, that red links help the Wikipedia grow; however, the Sparta article will mostly be about the local historical district. The countervailing guide is WP:Content forking. The other way that the Wikipedia grows is through the expansion of existing articles. I believe that it is better to give the readers some information than to give them a red link. At some future time if the Sparta article becomes so large that the historic district needs to be split off, then it can be with a nice blue link. Red links that help the Wikipedia grow are more usually used in places where the topic cannot be expanded, such as in list of Olympic event results, or in a town article where putting in the long bio of the founder would distort the article's focus. Here the topics are highly compatible. Does that help? --Bejnar (talk) 01:13, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Huntridge Theater

The link, I think you added, for the reference number links to an NRHP page with no information about this site. This seems to be a commonly used link for most NRHP articles and probably should not be used unless it actually can be corrected to point to something about the site it proports to be about. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I think you are commenting about an NRIS reference. NRIS is the source for the data given, and it should/must be included. However, I happen to agree with you that the standard NRIS reference should probably be modified to drop its link to the NPS webpage where the NRIS database can be downloaded. That should be a change proposed/discussed at {{NRISref}} with notice given at wt:NRHP. I agree the current NRISref seems unhelpful to readers by pointing them to the webpage that it does. However that was a consensus decision i think, that it should direct to there. Please do chime in at Template talk:NRISref. --doncram 22:24, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Trees

Yeah, it's getting there. I have some more I need to add. Then it needs to rest. And then I need to reassess it for NPOV, because I have an opinion about it - it's more important that I give it a few days. Then it needs to be edited, and re-edited, I'll take care of the clunky prose, there are a couple other areas besides the one you pointed out that need cleaned up, imo.IvoShandor (talk) 00:08, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

You're invited: Ada Lovelace, STEM women edit-a-thon at Harvard

U.S. Ada Lovelace Day 2012 edit-a-thon, Harvard University - You are invited!

Now in its fourth year, Ada Lovelace Day is an international celebration of women in science, technology, engineering, mathematics (STEM), and related fields. Participants from around New England are invited to gather together at Harvard Law School to edit and create Wikipedia entries on women who have made significant contributions to the STEM fields. Register to attend or sign up to participate remotely - visit this page to do either. 00:16, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Huntington Grange

At Wikipedia:Meetup/Bloomington, IN, so I can't help you much right now. "The building now receives occasional use as the Huntington Grange" is all that this source gives. For most of its history, it was a Baptist church. Nyttend (talk) 14:14, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

I.e. all that it gives on Patrons of Husbandry; it has a bit of other information that I'll be able to use to expand it. Nyttend (talk) 14:15, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

FYI — an ambassador is giving an intro to WP right now, so I'm doing other things, but I'm doing my best to pay attention as well, so I can't yet start on expanding the grange hall. I'll try to get to it later today. Nyttend (talk) 14:48, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Downtown Oakland Historic District

Hi, I reverted your recent addition to the Old Oakland article, since the historic district you were describing is in a different part of Downtown Oakland (it's basically the pre-war 20th century core, while Old Oakland is the 19th century core). I'm not sure where the best place to put it is, though. Nogood (talk) 01:48, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I put it into new, separate Downtown Oakland Historic District. As my edit summary adding some of it had noted, i was not positive that the district was the same as Old Oakland, but I was following another editor's suggestion. This leaves the Old Oakland article in poor shape still, but no problem for me. Thanks. --doncram 02:03, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Youngerman

The nom for the Randolph Hotel [2] mentions the three-story Youngerman Block next door to the north. I suspect there may have been other incarnations of the Youngerman Block: it appears that the existing Youngerman structure may be a remnant of a larger building that was mostly torn down for the Randolph. The Randolph was to be expanded to the north to the alley eventually, but that was never done. We'll need the Youngerman nom to be sure, but this would explain why the contradictory information exists. I'd pare the article back to what we know and see if we can get the nom. Acroterion (talk) 12:28, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

That's about Youngerman Block and discussion at Talk:Youngerman Block. Okay, go ahead and edit how you like. I don't see how a 3 story remnant could be saved from cutting down an eight-story block building; could it not be the 1876 early building, and as Youngerman was more successful he could build another bigger building of the same name? They could have been connected, so the 3 story earlier piece could be a "remnant" in that sense. But I am done there. --doncram 12:32, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to contact the Iowa folks and see if they'll email me the nom. My guess (which I'm not planning to put into print) is that the three-story section was an annex to the main building, which, as you have surmised, was demolished. We'll see. Acroterion (talk) 12:38, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Samuel F. Glass House

Nice start on Samuel F. Glass House! Biciklista10 (talk) 02:31, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

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Louisville and Nashville Railroad Freight Depot

What was the target you really intended. I searched by using our search engine, but failed find it. It now redirects to a nonexistent page Tennessee and Alabama Railroad Freight Depot ···Vanischenu^「m/_Talk」 14:52, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I've now created an article at the target. --doncram 15:00, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Thank you!···Vanischenu^「m/_Talk」 15:03, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Photos

Why do you insist on restoring images in violation of page layout standards? You say that it's difficult to communicate with me — when you add content that's plainly at variance with our standards, why do you expect me to attempt to reason with you? I have informed you that this content is not acceptable per our standards; there is no room for discussion unless you want to get the standards changed. Since you've been stalking me, you might have noticed that I've not added my own photos to many of these articles; I've changed the photos on some because my photos are superior, and I've left the previous photos in place with some (e.g. Leatherwood Station Covered Bridge) because my photos are definitely inferior. Nyttend (talk) 01:42, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand: why are you talking about Ohio sources? Slow down and start paying attention: these are in western Indiana near the Illinois line. Meanwhile, it is not my responsibility to expand stubs anyway, but I will continue to enforce the Manual of Style (and note that WP:FILE does exist) against edits that intentionally take pages away from it. I will not again bother with these pages; as I said to Sanfranman, you "win" edit wars by continuing them to the point of driving off other editors who, unlike you, are willing to just drop it. Nyttend (talk) 02:02, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Sigh. Not my interpretation of what happens. Nothing to discuss tho, so archiving.  :( --doncram 20:24, 18 October 2012 (UTC)