Talk:Agriprocessors

Untitled
Double brace template reflist does not work on this article. The footnotes are there, in the actual source code, but the referencese are not, and nothing I do makes it better. --Ace Telephone 03:38, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

A full blown deletion has happened.
Agriprocessors is back on line, but not as I wish it written. I still have the refs located in email. The fact that non-other contributors seem to be in charge will bring further trouble. This could have been so fun, or so mutual, but it seems, the Lubavitchers doing pizza on 1st St. NE in Waukon, Iowa (just up from the fire station) want to be outed (I just live up the street, guys, and drive the big, well-treated old Oldsmobile), and also remember doing the bus up 13th Ave and the transfer up to Eastern Parkway.

Hey! Lubavititcher of Allamakee County, Iowa! Talk to me!--MarkTwainOnIce 05:34, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * What part of the above is intended to make sense? And what part of it has anything to do with this article?  Tomertalk  21:06, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The coverage of the Cedar Rapids Gazette.
I've stuffed the last week's worth of papers in a place that lets me quote them. The CRG is liberal and fair. The local story goes that, basically, Agripocessors is involved in illegal immmigration, to the point that they help illegals be illegal. This article has a history, including a deletion, apparently on grounds of being anti-semetic, but got restored. --Ace Telephone (talk) 04:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The POV on this article is starting to shift; the company and its owners (the Rubashkin family) are suddenly being painted as less "shady" than they actually are - witness every single periodical (save their hypocritical Orthodox defenders) which has covered the numerous scandals involving this company. I'd suggest this page be more closely moderated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giddeyap (talk • contribs) 23:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

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5WPR impersonates Rabbi Morris Allen
An article in the Jewish Daily Forward by Nathaniel Popper July 11, 2008 highlights tactics used by the PR firm that represents Agriprocessors.

Dean Armond 14:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I added content on this, citing the above source and two others. Please feel free to improve on it, but watch for deletions and edit warring from 5W Public Relations.  Three 5W sockpuppets were repeatedly deleting similar content from their firm's page and that of their CEO, Ronn Torossian (note WP:COI), using the same tactics as what they were caught doing in the Jewish blogosphere.  All three were recently blocked from Wikipedia for one day for violating WP:3RR.  76.250.201.49 (talk) 09:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

5W Public Relations impersonating rabbi critic
67.101.48.228 why did you remove this section without any discussion or explanation? This is the only edit you have ever made on Wikipedia, so let me welcome to you to the community. I will assume that you are not aware that it is usual to use the discussion page before removing sections from an article. It can considered rude to simply remove a contribution by another editor. Please do not do so in future.

Dean Armond 20:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Cleaned up some citatation issues

 * Cited the "meth lab" claim to the New York Times, but pointed out that no meth lab was found during the search.
 * Biggest raid of 2008 per NYT; don't have a source for "biggest raid ever", so changed text to match cite.
 * Removed some uncited material in the raid section. We have enough cited material that we don't need the questionable stuff. --John Nagle (talk) 04:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Breaking news
This just in: Sholom Rubashkin, Agriprocessors CEO (former CEO?) has been arrested. --John Nagle (talk) 05:09, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

More breaking news: a bank is preparing to foreclose on Agriprocessors."Bank says meatpacking plant defaulted on $35M loan". "(Agriprocessors) have repeatedly made misrepresentations to First Bank by providing inaccurate and misleading Notices of Borrowing and other documents that misstated the value of the Collateral," --John Nagle (talk) 06:22, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

More: Iowa meatpacker fined nearly $10M for violations of state labor laws. "Once again, Agriprocessors has demonstrated a complete disregard for Iowa law" - Iowa State Labor Commissioner Dave Neil --John Nagle (talk) 16:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Article on blogging efforts
I came across this while editing another article: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gg5LO0Z7DFhrY5WsZDEiFhp-ydTwD93JRR5G0. Note there's a correction: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ieu-qJfEP2MAu8N8ftzA_O01xNggD93MFTHG0. Don't know if this of use to this article. Flowanda | Talk 00:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * They have so many other big problems. Their astroturf blog is barely worth mentioning at this point. --John Nagle (talk) 02:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Format cleanup
Did some formatting cleanup. Please, when adding citations, use the citation templates. Just using the URL doesn't work when references are in two-column format, because Wikipedia's two-column CSS doesn't use tables, and long URLs end up as text on top of the second column. --John Nagle (talk) 18:18, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

We need a hidden category here.
I'm local, and in fact as MarkTwainonIce and AceTelephone wrote it. This article once got deleted because of the Rubashkin family conspiracy. Yes, Agriprocessors does 65% of kosher kill in the United States. We locally expect some Jewish company to take over the now-bankrupt corporation, but with all the illegal immigrants deported. Chabad is snooty; I suspect the good rabbis that passed on the meat will move back to Brooklyn, and leave it to other more sane rabbis to pass on the kosherness of the meat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.221.242.143 (talk) 02:45, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Agriprocessors past or present?
hello everybody. i did some editing, after having come by the article quite by chance, because i think it's an interesting “case”, involving several questions concerning ″jewishness″ in theory and practice. as User:Nagle points out, “Agriprocessors, as an entity, is defunct”. but i'm not sure he is right in stating that “The plant was sold as an asset sale, rather than as a functioning business. So Agri Star is not the successor company”. one of the questions i did not find any answer to is: what became of the rest of the rubashkin enterprises? i saw a note somewhere, that the plant in Gordon, Nebraska was to be sold separately, but i didn't find anything about it. and what became of the distribution centers in Brooklyn and Miami? and i don't think that it is correct to say, that only the Postville plant was bought by Hershey Friedman. he must have bought more than just the plant, otherwise he could not sell the products under their old names such as “Aaron’s Best, Shor Habor, Supreme Kosher”, but i may be wrong. the reason why i did not put the whole article in the past tense though is simply because the company is still very much talked about, and probably will be until all the rubashkin legacy has disapeared, which, as it seems, is not any time soon. so imo, the present tense makes more sense. but if it is treated as a has-been, the article needs more changes than those made by Nagel here. any suggestions? ajnem (talk) 10:21, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

cap P in name
Looking at the company site, it appears the company intended the P to be capped. Should we move the article to that name, with a redirect from this one?- Sinneed  18:18, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No. But what web site are you looking at? The Agriprocessors' site was shut down some time ago and removed from the article. All the refs refer to the company without the uppercase P, including NYT. Bob98133 (talk) 18:29, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The one in the article now. But I agree, looking at the press, I see only the standard capping.-  Sinneed  19:40, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Dropped the site in the infobox, it went to a branding company site, perhaps a proposal they had made? Whatever, it doesn't seem to be the official site.  If there is a wayback for the old one, it might well be worth including in the ELs.-  Sinneed  19:42, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems to me, that this is the Rubashkin's official website, still working as if nothing had happened. What do you mean by “it went to a branding company site”? ajnem (talk) 17:12, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Web page
http://www.csgkc.com/ is a branding company website. It is not an Agriprocessors web site.- Sinneed  17:49, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

The old agriprocessors.com redirected to www.rubashkin.com. Both went blank in 2006, it appears from review of the archive. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://rubashkin.com - Sinneed  18:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

media
hello, Postville: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America by Stephen G. Bloom has been “advertised” in the article for a long time; I can't see, why anyone would object to having books and films mentioned. ajnem (talk) 14:54, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The mention is in... the wp:advert out. Very different.  Just because stuff exists doesn't mean it is good stuff.-  Sinneed  20:09, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

wp:OR
"widely", "and is mostly focused on the Jewish element" - both of these would need sources that specifically said them, rather than interpretations of the editor(s). I am dubious of the bit I left in about the since-the-raid bit... but *all* the sources in the article were since then, unless I missed some.- Sinneed  20:08, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Lead very inappropriate
"Agriprocessors and its CEO Sholom Rubashkin faced accusations of mistreatment of cattle, a series of alleged violations of labor law, pollution, and bank fraud charges." a. This is unsourced, b. Please explain why this belongs in the lead. --KerAvelt (talk) 19:58, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Also, "In June 2010, Sholom Rubashkin was sentenced to 27 years in prison on federal financial fraud charges" does not belong in the article, let alone the lead. (It is improper and very unusual, see Enron for instance, has no talk of the CEO's sentence.)--KerAvelt (talk) 19:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The Enron scandal has its own article, Enron scandal, which covers all the players. --John Nagle (talk) 02:32, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed, if there were a article name Agriprocessors scandal it would be appropriate to mention some of this information.--KerAvelt (talk) 04:22, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * What is in "improper" about including pertinent, reliably sourced, policy compliant information in an article and summarizing it for the lead ? Can you cite policy violations to be clearer. Also, are you aware that sources for statements in the lead only have to be provided in the article body per WP:LEAD ? Material in the lead does not have to have a citation (although some people, including me, thinks it is better if it does). So, before you remove things from the lead on the basis that there is no ref you need to check the article body.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 06:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * a. You've totally missed the point. It is not sourced that the Sholom Rubashkin (who is not the CEO, as I've clearly proven in Talk:Sholom_Rubashkin) faced accusations of mistreatment of cattle, a series of alleged violations of labor law and pollution, and even if it were sourced why does it belong in the lead (I am referring to Sholom Rubashkin, not Agriprocessors). b. As I mentioned before, why does Sholom Rubashkin's sentence belong anywhere in the article, let alone the lead? --KerAvelt (talk) 14:30, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And "material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, and quotations, should be cited." LEADCITE--KerAvelt (talk) 14:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Sholom Rubashkin was not the CEO
Here are Reliable Secondary Sources that clearly state that not only did Sholom's Attorneys say that he was not CEO, but the US Attorneys office AGREED, and acknowledged so. APThe GazetteThe Gazette (if the other link links to a different article). "Assistant U.S. Attorney Bob Teig said Monday he didn't know why or how the government started using the chief operating officer title." --KerAvelt (talk) 23:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It's no more convincing here than it is at the other article. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 09:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It is as convincing here as it is in the other article Talk:Sholom_Rubashkin, which you still haven't responded to, so don't respond here. And please don't give me the tiresome argument. --KerAvelt (talk) 14:22, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you are confusing "haven't responded" with "haven't given the response I [KerAvelt] demand". Nomoskedasticity (talk) 14:44, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You in fact, haven't given any response at all.--KerAvelt (talk) 15:03, 28 September 2010 (UTC)--KerAvelt (talk) 15:03, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * One way to address this might be to create Rubashkin crime family to pull together the criminal activities of the various family members.  There's Aaron, the "patriarch" (many sources for that), Sholom, Moshe Rubashkin (who also did Federal time), and Heshy (manager at Agriprocessors; Sholom tried to blame him at trial).  As with the Mafia, titles don't seem to matter all that much. --John Nagle (talk) 16:34, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there any logical objection to removing the title of CEO from Sholom? (Before objecting see Talk:Sholom_Rubashkin).--KerAvelt (talk) 17:04, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

A "Chief Operating Officer" (as per the Assistant U.S. Attorney's statement, referenced above) is generally referred to as a COO. CEO refers to a "Chief Executive Officer". Different positions. Gulbenk (talk) 20:30, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sources do call him CEO, even though that doesn't mean much in a Lubavich family run business. Ajnem (talk) 10:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Following the money
As is typical in bankruptcy cases, there's a bankruptcy trustee trying to find any assets Agriprocessors hid, recover any fraudulent or preferential payments, and pay off the creditors.. Regarding some payees, "“We’re suing them because we know they got money and we can’t figure out why." Regarding preferential payments, "United Mehadrin Kosher of Minneapolis, which provided kosher certification services, was asked to repay $2.8 million." Regarding employee claims: "“There are some very worthy priority claims. ... They included workers who were owed money, and claims for doctor bills for employees and their families that weren’t paid. Agriprocessors’ health plan was self-funded." Nothing big yet, but as the 130 civil lawsuits unwind, more info may become available. --John Nagle (talk) 21:02, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

HR manager arrested
Agriprocessors' manager Hosam Amara, who fled to Israel to avoid arrest, has been arrested in Israel and the US is trying to get him extradited. He was the manager responsible for fake immigration paperwork. Zeev Levi, another Agriprocessors manager, also fled to Israel and is wanted. --John Nagle (talk) 04:15, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * As noted in the article, extradition did take place, after many delays, and he's now in jail in Iowa. Trial starts August 19, 2013. --John Nagle (talk) 05:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Criminal charges and trials
It seems the section should either just be a link to or selectively transclude the  which is more complete and well-maintained. Any objections? —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 07:05, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * None at all, go for it. If anyone reverts then follow normal procedure: Edit war, have everyone blocked, and then seek consensus after all blocks expire. Don't forget to cross-post in at least five dispute forums as well.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * For the benefit of the newbies, he's just kidding. I think. —&#91;   Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 01:14, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes I was joking. A seriuous wikipedian would create 50-100 sockpuppet accounts and just seek consensus that way. I think you should go ahead and and do it. I doubt there will be objections as readers will have more access from the change.--Canoe1967 (talk) 02:21, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

✅ —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 08:12, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Your idea of a link is more appropriate since those are details related to a specific incident during a specific time frame.Caseeart (talk) 07:49, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Facts on living people in error - not checked must be removed, unless substantiated


Definition of CITATION 1: an official summons to appear (as before a court)

Controversies Agriprocessors plant, backsideThe Agriprocessors plants have often been controversial because of frequent citations for illegal practices such as animal abuse, food safety violations,[6] violations of environmental laws, child labor laws, and the recruitment of illegal immigrants and inducing them to work in often dangerous conditions at illegal wages.

When and where were which people summoned to appear before a court for animal abuse? I believe there were no citations on this count. Certainly no convictions.

As the article is about living people, it is necessary to be careful to avoid erroneous allegations. RPSM (talk) 15:33, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * But there are other definitions of citation. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Ultra religious Jews is a non sequitur
Please delete "ultra." It is a meaningless and inaccurate description of observant Jews. For comparison, in articles about NOW National Organization of Women do you ever see them referred to as Ultra liberal or ultra feminists? Instead, just describe them as religious Jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.41.236 (talk) 04:10, 27 February 2014 (UTC) 2600:1011:B01B:AF8B:1578:F507:F066:3FAF (talk) 19:19, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Y Done I don't think the "religious Jews" is quite right either, since I don't think the devoutness is the issue here. That said, I think your criticism is valid and I replaced it with "Orthodox Jews", since that's more specific and bears no judgment, explicit or implicit. Mosmof (talk) 20:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Table of events
There are many events and the article is currently lengthy and unclear. We should probably create a table of significant events with dates on top for more clear reading.Caseeart (talk) 07:52, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110710212757/http://www.eyeonagriprocessors.com/docs/All%20Noncompliance%20records.pdf to http://www.eyeonagriprocessors.com/docs/All%20Noncompliance%20records.pdf
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100505060607/http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-12-03/news/the-fall-of-the-house-of-rubashkin to http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-12-03/news/the-fall-of-the-house-of-rubashkin/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716220142/http://www.jewishchronicle.org/article.php?article_id=10262 to http://www.jewishchronicle.org/article.php?article_id=10262
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