Talk:Asif Ali Zardari

This is not a neutral page .This page is just a representation of typical morons of Punjab
The man once said" I have even forgotten the persons who cut-off my tongue". All the allegations regarding to his corruption are corrupt themselves. In contrast if we see "Nawaz Sharif's" page on wkiki, we don't find, Asghar khan's case(the greatest political and monetory fraud in Pakistan done by Nawaz Shrif), His agreement with Musharaf, withdrawal of 22,000 Sindhi employees, His Anti-Muhajir operations in Karachi, Deduction of provincial revenues for three provinces and many things more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.47.240.132 (talk) 14:44, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Its WIKIPEIDA not a political blog
Please everyone when writing something about political stuff, plz remain neutral..Dont mention Punjabi, sindhi, etc HunterZone (talk) 11:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Relevance of event
Let's discuss this. It seems to me some people did something nominally "for" some PPP prisoners, which included Zardari, but were unsuccessful. I doubt the PPP prisoners organized the event from prison. Did the event have any effect on their lives? How exactly is this event relevant to Zardari? Gimmetoo (talk) 23:47, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. If someone does stupid and criminal things while mentioning Zardari, that's still not relevant to Zardari unless Zardari is either involved in the acts or his reaction to the acts is significant. Right now, there's no indication that Zardari promoted the hijacking, knew of it beforehand or even cared afterwards. Huon (talk) 11:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I second that. The event is not too significant to include in this article. This should be removed. Sarmadhassan (talk) 16:00, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Supposed marriage
There are rumors that Zardari married a Tanweer Zamani in Dubai; this piece was given as a source. It gives two blogs as its sources, meaning it's not reliable by Wikipedia's standards. For comparison: Zamani denies ever meeting Zardari, Zardari threatens to sue (the article explains that this is "a rumour posted on several hitherto unheard of blogs and websites"). This story looks like an internet rumor being exploited by Zardari's critics. Huon (talk) 08:55, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Telegraph story is a reliable source, not it all comes to whether it is compatible with BOLP or not. I do not support adding even original content based on rumors. Sarmadhassan (talk) 09:21, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The Telegraph story reports a denial of the rumour. I don't see a good reason to include this rumour at this time. If the subject of the article officially denied the rumour with some commentary, maybe, but that's not happened. Gimmetoo (talk) 09:37, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Lead edits
Mni9791 changed the lead to read: "Asif Ali Zardari (Urdu: آصف علی زرداری; Sindhi: آصف علي زرداري; born 26 July 1955) is the 11th and current President of Pakistan and the Co-Chairman of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP). He is the widower of Benazir Bhutto. His political career has been mired by corruption, for which he has served 8 years in prison, and ineptitude. During the premiership of Benazir Bhutto he became widely known as Mr. 10 Percent because he demanded a flat ten percent kickback for every government contract. As President, his attempt to prevent the reinstatement of judges failed after massive protests led by Nawaz Sharif, his chief political rival. He suffered further political embarrassment for flirting with Sarah Palin and for going to his French chateau a few days after the 2010 Pakistan floods."

There are several problems with that. Firstly, it's a flat-out violation of WP:NPOV. Allegations of misconduct completely overwhelm the lead, even at the cost of removing more important facts such as his wealth (which probably is related to said misconduct). Is Zardari's "flirting" with Palin really more important than him effictively inheriting his power from his wife after her assassination? Secondly, while Mni9791 now added sources, those sources don't say what they're supposed to support: The Economist does not mention that Zardari was inept, but rather that he was never actually convicted for corruption, USA Today's mention of "corruption allegations" becomes "he demanded a flat ten percent kickback" in Mni9791's writing, and so on. For these reasons, I've reverted the edits. Huon (talk) 22:23, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

You are completely right in many of the contexts. Instead, my new version places your lead entry (which was the original before the edit) first and foremost. I placed his corruption misconduct in a seperate paragraph. the reason i felt the need for his misconduct to be mentioned is because Zardari is in many ways defined by his corruption. You can not find a single western news article that does not introduce him in such a manner. (Mni9791 (talk) 23:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

I agree. his fliriting with sarah palin may seem insignificant compared to his other deeds. But at the same time, this action has also defined his personality in front of Pakistanis... see sources. I also removed the inept part. I realized that that was unsourced and introudces bias. (Mni9791 (talk) 23:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

At the same time his reinstatement of judges has been one of the most striking defeats in his Presidency and it should without dobut be mentioned. I have tried to improve the article and its flaws as much as I can. by all means, point out the errors in the edit instead of supplanting it entirely. (Mni9791 (talk) 23:12, 27 February 2011 (UTC))
 * I agree with Huon this is something which definitely cannot go in lead. "His political career has been mired by corruption.... " makes it go into section called Political Career which is already there. For the lead it is blatant violation of WP:NPOV Sarmadhassan (talk) 09:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I actually agree with Mni9791 that the allegations of corruption are significant enough to be mentioned in the lead, though of course we should be precise and call them allegations - Zardari has not been convicted of corruption, and the various trials all came to naught. Nevertheless, these claims have been raised against Zardari for quite some time, and as Mni9791 notes, hardly any source discussing Zardari fails to mention them. But none of the various other controversies, scandals and political conflicts are significant enough for the lead. The reinstatement of judges, for example, should go into the section on his presidency. I have added "allegations of" to the corruption sentence (which may have to be reworded further) and removed the rest from the lead. Huon (talk) 15:37, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Point #1: Huon. I would like to point out that corruption with Zardari is NOT simply allegations. As the sources point out, HE HAS SERVED 8 YEARS IN PRISON for corruption. He was CONVICTED of corruption!! (Mni9791 (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC))

Point #2: Pointing out he has served charges on corruption is NOT a violation of WP:NPOV. Just like it is not a violation to for Jeffrey Dahmer's article to have his "gruesome charges". The same goes with every convicted person. It is NOT FOR YOU to decide which crime is deserving enough to list him as CONVICTED or ACCUSED. As Wikipedians, our job is not to asses but simply to report the facts. (Mni9791 (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC))

Point #3: He has been WIDELY CALLED Mr. 10% and has become HIS MOST WIDELY KNOWN nickname. I repeat again--- LOOK AT SOURCES. (Mni9791 (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC))

Point #4: READ THE SOURCES. His plan to prevent reinstatement the JUDGES severely weakened his PRESIDENCY. Just like Barack Obama's page lists the most significant events in his administration such as the stimulus package, health care act, banking reform act and etc... WE MUST ALSO LIST THE SIGNIFICANT events in the Zardari administration. WHY is mentioning the 2010 Pakistan floods, which was the largest disaster in the history of Pakistan, and his handling of it not be mentioned??? WHY is the reinstatement of judges event not be mentioned? In fact, the reinstatement of judges has been front-line NEWS in Pakistan since before Musharraf's emergency rule and till his departure. ALL THE MAJOR opposition parties campaigned on THAT issue. Are you not aware of Pakistan's current events????? (Mni9791 (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC))

As my final word in the issue: STOP TRYING TO POLITICIZE THIS DISPUTE in your attempt to defend Zardari. REPORT THE FACTS, NOT ASSES THE FACTS. (Mni9791 (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC))

It is also my right to request that YOU do not change this page until you address these points. Wikiedits must first be agreed upon on the Discussion page before arbitrarily imposing your own opinionated version of the page. (Mni9791 (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * Regarding your first two points, have you actually read your own sources? Let me quote one of them: "He was imprisoned, but not convicted, by both Mr Sharif and Mr Musharraf, on charges including murder and corruption." The BBC does mention a conviction only to follow up with a paragraph stating that subsequently a mistrial was declared following a major scandal involving the judge. No source states that he was actually involved in corruption without qualifiers such as "alleged" or "accused". Indeed our job is not to assess but simply to report the facts.


 * Fine. You are right on your point. But where has the article, and specifically my edits, has it mentioned that he was convicted of his crimes?? Nowhere. There is absolutely no mention of it. And I don't understand why the lead can not mention where he has spent nearly an entire decade of his life-- in prison. I think that fact has enough significance. (Mni9791 (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * and by the way, for the record, though I will not insist on including the term "conviction", I still claim he was convicted. This is the reason,"He spent several years in jail on charges of corruption. He was labeled "Mr 10%"." "Pakistani investigators accused the couple of embezzling as much $1.5 billion from government accounts. British and American private investigators working for the government of Mr. Sharif, her political rival, produced a thick volume of documents tracing what they said were multimillion-dollar kickbacks to the Zardaris in return for government contracts and a web of bank accounts across the world used to hide the money." NYTimes source (Mni9791 (talk) 19:52, 28 February 2011 (UTC))The sources tell the reader about his unproven charges relating to his alleged move "of tying a remote-controlled bomb to the leg of a businessman and sending him into a bank to withdraw money from his account as a pay-off." and of his alleged accusations relating to his "arrest and charged with a number of offences including the murder of Mir Murtaza Bhutto, his wife's brother. " Zardari has served in prison numerous times-- the most recent from 1996 to 2004. He also served from 1990 to 1993. He has dealth with multiple different murder charges. None of this is mentioned in the lead. Whether it should, consensus between me and you will decide it. But for the time being, I will defer the matter to you. (Mni9791 (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * Regarding the third and fourth point, please have a look at WP:LEAD, which says: "The lead serves both as an introduction to the article and as a summary of its most important aspects." The article is currently awfully short on content about Zardari's presidency, and it did not mention the judge reinstation at all (except in the lead). If anything about his presidency should be summarized there, it's probably the constitutional reform, which effectively gutted the powers of the President of Pakistan. Everything else should be mentioned in the appropriate sections before it gets elevated to this level of prominence. The judge reinstation, for example, needs much more context to be of any help to the reader. Regarding the "Mr. 10%" nickname, that has indeed been widely reported, and it is mentioned in the appropriate section of the article. But we generally do not mention nicknames in the lead of articles, and never bolded unless it's actually used by the subject himself (say, for professional wrestlers). Have a look at Margaret Thatcher: Even though her "Iron Lady" nickname has its own Wikipedia article, it doesn't get bolded. And George W. Bush was widely called "Dubya" by his detractors, yet the article does not mention that nickname at all. I am not convinced Zardari's nickname is important enough for the lead.
 * Fine. Lets mention the constitutional reforms that have limited Zardari's powers exponentially. Lets also mention his removal of authority relating to nuclear arsenal of the country (which has domestic and global significance).

I agree with you. This needs much more context. In the next few days, I will work on significantly improving this article to elaborate on the context of this situation. Fine. I agree that Mr. 10 Percent should not be bolded and I will soon unbold it asap. But at the same time, for the record I would like to point out that the nickname "Dubya" and the nickname "Mr. 10 Percent" is not equivalent fair comparison. The reasoning is simple: "Mr. 10 Percent", unlike "Dubya", has direct explicit negative connotations. And Bush was not only called Dubya by his detractors but by some of his supporters also. I will not elaborate more on this because the point will soon be irrelevant to our discussion. (Mni9791 (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * But the reinstatement is very significant. NYTimes source: "As protests increased, the government banned a national protest demonstration in March and arrested hundreds of political workers, deepening popular discontent with Mr. Zardari, whose popularity had already been plummeting. Pressure mounted on the government to reach an accommodation with Mr. Sharif. Early on March 15, though, police detained Mr. Sharif at his house in Lahore, hours before he was to address a planned demonstration, and arrested supporters protesting outside his home. But the next day, Mr. Zardari announced a surprising compromise -- he agreed to reinstate Pakistan's independent-minded former Supreme Court justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry. Mr. Sharif had urged the move, and Mr. Zardari had for months refused. Demonstrations were called off."

(Mni9791 (talk) 19:48, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * Regarding your right to request that I don't undo your changes: Have a look at WP:BRD. You made the bold edits, got reverted, and instead of establishing consensus on the talk page, reverted me right back. You may request whatever you want, but I am under no obligation not to revert your changes, which bluntly violate Wikipedia policies such as WP:V and WP:BLP.
 * And finally the politicizing: Would you mind pointing out how exactly I try to politicize this dispute? I was not aware I did. Huon (talk) 18:38, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

And I apologize for my rant. It was excessive. But I dont believe it was uncalled for because you completely arbitrarily discounted my edits without clear explanation at all. That is why I was annoyed.(Mni9791 (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * Most of User MNI9791's edits are less than ideal. They remove much of Zardari's POV while emphasizing the opposition, eg removing Zardari's claim the charges were political; whatever we may think of Zardari's views, his response to negative allegations should be reported if we report the negative allegations. I'm not sure the education edits are sources . Furthermore, we there may be issues of balance, by having a lot of text on some things while not much text on other things. Gimmetoo (talk) 00:01, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Gimmetoo's assessment. There is a serious neutrality problem: Negative statements about Zardari are presented as fact and exaggerated:
 * "[...] because he demanded a flat ten percent kickback for every government contract" - we don't have a single source going further than saying it was alleged he demanded kickbacks.
 * "He suffered further political embarrassment for flirting with Sarah Palin" - the source does not use the term "embarassment" and does not discuss political repercussions for Zardari at all.
 * "The school couldn't be located and does not exist." - almost all sources agree that Zardari's educational institutions in London could not be located. None claim they don't exist.
 * In contrast, Zardari's point of view is either removed outright or heavily couched in qualifiers such as "claimed". Above, Mni9791 said that we should just report the facts and not assess them. I agree, but that goes for him, too. Also, his last edit seemed to add claims which look sourced but are not actually supported by the sources given, such as the claim that "He generally stayed out of his wife's first administration" - despite holding posts as investment and environment minister?
 * Besides, many of Mni9791 recent additions, especially those about Zardari's youth, are taken word by word from the sources, raising issues of copyright violation. We should rewrite them in our own words. Huon (talk) 02:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Gimmetoo stated, "Furthermore, we there may be issues of balance, by having a lot of text on some things while not much text on other things."
 * I have not finished editing. This page requires a lot of time. (Mni9791 (talk) 05:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC))

User:Huon stated neutrality problem: "[...] because he demanded a flat ten percent kickback for every government contract"
 * I will fix this. I will add a source and correct the statement asap to reflect a better version. (Mni9791 (talk) 05:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC))

User:Huon stated neutrality problem: "The school couldn't be located and does not exist." - almost all sources agree that Zardari's educational institutions in London could not be located. None claim they don't exist.
 * Good to know that Huon is nitpicking my edits. He should get a barnstar for stalking me. On the matter itself, I will fix this. I just assumed that if many different news agencies can not find an alleged school, then perhaps it does not exist. Of course, I may be wrong and it is not my job to make inferences. I apologize. (Mni9791 (talk) 05:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC))

A couple years ago this article was a hatchet job, listing every bad thing alleged of Zardari without much other content. I don't want to go back to that. This article is also under constant onslaught by IP editors with a POV, almost always against Zardari (though once in a while there are whitewashers). Now, we need to recognize that he has done bad things, and is alleged to have done others, but it's inappropriate to go into detail over every bad thing without proportionate detail about neutral and positive things. That's why, for instnace, there was not much detail about the school thing - it doesn't need much, just "he claimed he graduated from X" and context (typically required for political positions at a certain level), and most readers are quite capable of drawing conclusions without the article dwelling on it further. Less is more. If you go into a lot of negative detail, then most readers perceive an article written by the opposition, and discount it more than even a typical wikipedia article. Gimmetoo (talk) 22:00, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I have been watching this article for a long time now. I am not a fan of the President, nor any of my individual political association should reflect on my wiki edits. But to be honest, now this BLP article is leaning towards things which highlight negative aspect of Mr. Zardari. The difference is clearly visible. I recommend that a WP:consensus is made before any further edits which are primarily motivated by a google search of anti zardari articles and stuffing information in. Sarmadhassan (talk) 06:46, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

The sentence about him flirting with Palin set off my NPOV alarms. Does it really belong in the lead paragraph? Even as a criticism, it seems trvial and weakens the other points made in the introduction. Park3r (talk) 08:51, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I have been reading this talk page for quite a while. I have also read the page history and compared it to what it was once was a few weeks ago and what it is now. I would like to note that this page had tremendous bias in support of Zardari. This article failed to mention a hint of his corruption in the lead. By failing to mention even the most basic of Zardari's trespasses, the article became pro-Zardari because it removed any content that painted him in a negative light. Wikipedia is not an enterprise for making fan pages that compete with the official website of its biographies. For that reason, this article does not the neutrality policy at all. But at the same time, I am taking the middle ground in this talk page. ''I believe many more edits should be made into the body of this page before any improvements are done to the lead. This article needs critical corrections such as adding more section and organization. Honestly, its a pain to read this article because its content is so unsourced, missourced, fallacious, and writing is so bad.'' I see how people are adding more information and correcting the references. Good job to Sarmadhassan, MNI9791, and Huon for undertaking the uncontroversial and information-orientated edits lately.Roberto2004t (talk) 17:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


 * In response to Roberto, I introduced new sections to help boost the page. Its in a "rough draft format" right now. (Mni9791 (talk) 18:52, 2 March 2011 (UTC))


 * I have literally scoured the web for hours searching for anything about Zardari during the first Bhutto administration besides corruption. There is absolutely nothing else about him. It is as if he married before the term and then got caught up in corruption charges after the end of the term. But i guess thats what a "first husband"'s role would be. After all, he did agree to keep out of politics at the time of the marriage. (Mni9791 (talk) 20:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC))

Locking this page, ratings, and last information cleanup
We need to protect this page from non auto-confirmed users. It is ridiculous and actually hurting the progress of this page's development because I literally daily come here to realize that this page has been vandalized by a user. This page needs to be protected because instead of improving this page, new users attempt to destroy the page. There has been nearly 30 different vandals in 30 days. Can an administrator put this page on hold at least till the clean up is complete? Mni9791 (talk) 04:19, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

"This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale." I am pretty sure this is not a start class article anymore. Mni9791 (talk) 04:19, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

"This article has been rated as C-Class on the Wikiproject Pakistan's quality scale." This article is clearly better sourced than nearly all of the articles in the Pakistan genre. Can someone check this for the criteria the criteria for B-Class status??? (Mni9791 (talk) 04:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC))

Topics that still need to be addressed: 1) Judiciary showdown against Nawaz Sharif
 * Done. Mni9791 (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

2) AfPak Trilateral Summit
 * Done. Mni9791 (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

3) Second war with the judiciary--> repeal of Musharraf decrees and constitutional amendments, Zardari removal attempt through reopened corruption trials, attempted removal of the judiciary
 * Done. Mni9791 (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

4) October 2009 aid package
 * Done. Mni9791 (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

5) Pakistan floods
 * Done. Mni9791 (talk) 18:07, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

6) Presidential limitations and removal of presidential powers
 * Done. Mni9791 (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

All of the above needs to be addressed in the coming two months. my goal is to have the facts revamped by the end of May.(Mni9791 (talk) 04:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC))

8 Vandalisms in less than 36 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Mni9791 (talk) 17:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)) Protect the page. (Mni9791 (talk) 17:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC))

Protect the page permanently
I would like everyone to note that on May 5 (the day protection expired), this page received vandalism from 4 different IP addresses. PROTECT PERMANENTLY. (Mni9791 (talk) 05:07, 7 May 2011 (UTC))
 * The correct place to ask for protection is WP:RFPP. I don't think the current level of vandalism is sufficient to warrant excluding all new editors from editing the page, but I have no experience with the protecting admins' criteria. Huon (talk) 09:49, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Pictures
 
 * Can someone upload these two pictures in Wikipedia Commons? I don't know how. Mni9791 (talk) 14:08, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for nothing, everybody. I figured out how to do it. The first image can not be uploaded because some copyright rights are still reserved. the other image can be uploaded into WikiCommons and i just did it. Mni9791 (talk) 03:56, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Born Where?
In the section "Early life and education" it says in the first sentence:


 * "Zardari was born on 26 July 1955 in Nawabashah, Sindh of Pakistan."

In the third sentence it says:


 * "He was born in Karachi..."

His mother must have been in a lot of pain!

4.240.117.207 (talk) 06:00, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Karachi seems correct; that's what the BBC explicitly says. The Telegtraph says that he was born "the obscure scion of an ambitious family of small landowners from Nawabashah", which probably just means that his parents were from Nawabashah, not that he was born there. Thanks, will make the relevant change. Huon (talk) 11:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

On a related note, the official govt biography says Zardari was born July 26, 1955 and. That's also the date that's been in the article for ages. Huon recently changed this based on Telegraph saying he was born July 21, 1956. Unfortunately, I can't find other good sources which agree with the latter. FWIW, Pakistan Herald and Britannica-online have July 26, 1955. Gimmetoo (talk) 23:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Further info. Shortly before the Telegraph article was published (September 2008), this Wiki article had July 21, 1956; the date had been added September 2007 and was unsourced; it was changed to reflect the govt. biography here. It seems to me using the Telegraph article for birthdate might be a circular reference. Gimmetoo (talk) 23:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops, thanks for pointing that out. The source we had for Zardari's birthdate was a broken link, so I tried to find another one, and the Telegraph was the first (and only one) I found. I was a little surprised by the discrepancy, but didn't look closely enough to realize what had happened. My mistake. Huon (talk) 01:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Child actor: 1969 Salgirah movie
Could we get a reliable secondary source for Zardari's acting career? I couldn't find anything beyond blogs, YouTube video commentary and Wikipedia mirrors. Huon (talk) 10:11, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Aah, yes. Apparently, that is a very little known yet interesting fact about Zardari. If you understand Urdu and take a look at this clip, it shows a small scene of Zardari as a child actor in a 1969 movie. True, there are not many reliable sources which discuss Zardari's early childhood or his links to cinema; that's why this information is trivial in the first place. Mar4d (talk) 10:19, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I also looked for sources. I could not find a single reliable source. We can not use Youtube clips or blogs to cite information, especially on a biography of a living person who is running for political office. This article is a reliable and effective because it uses highly authenticated reliable sources. Having an uncited statement such as this weakens the article and the hard work that has been put into it. You admit that this is unknown triva: "is a very little known yet interesting fact about Zardari". This article is also undergoing a FA nominee and the unsourced statement will hurt the process. Reformation32 (talk) 13:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think Mar4d wanted to add that factoid to the article without a reliable source - neither do I. Huon (talk) 14:21, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, if I jumped into an earlier discussion. My discussion was concerning today's edit- .Reformation32 (talk) 18:43, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

that was not just a blog-type clip on youtube. it is actually a video recording of one of the top/most-viewed satellite news channel in Pakistan called "Dunya News".i think a news airing on traditional news channel should suffice to be a reliable source.the host of the news talk show "hasb-e-haal" is a also a renowned journalist and this is also enough for citation purpose.further,disregarding a news record because it was in the form of a clip on youtube just isnt good practice as videos can also be a source of authentication and the most common place for them is youtube!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.191.54 (talk) 05:03, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Videos can easily be faked - and the most common place for that is YouTube too. For that reason YouTube videos are generally not considered a reliable source - definitely not if the uploader is not affiliated with the producer. Do you know when that news airing was originally broadcast? Does the broadcaster perchance have an online archive? Huon (talk) 07:13, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi,its me again.i see your point. 1-first of all let me say that i watch that program quite often and i can relate those 3 persons with theirs voices.i myself bear witness to the fact that,that clip was indeed real not fake. 2-original broadcast air date was '8th oct. 2009'. 3-yes,the broadcaster does have an online archive(see the links given below). the TV channel's official website:http://dunyanews.tv after going to their website,click on youtube button which will take you to their official youtube channel,then type "hasb e haal 08-10-2009" within their YT channel's search box.now you have that news show divided into clips,just click on the last part(i.e. part-5) and there you have it! for your convenience here are some direct links also: direct link to dunya news' off. YT channel:http://www.youtube.com/dunyanews1 direct link to the original news clip:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fMvuZ08cH0&feature=plcp regards, Adnan Tariq. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.181.60 (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment
Although it is nice to see that the article has GA status, I only have one issue: it delves straight into the 'controversy' stuff right from the second paragraph. I think it would be better if most of this info is moved into the bottom first sections rather than right at the beginning of the article which is supposed to only give an overview and sort of introduce the person. Shouldn't the start of the article preferably just talk about his current status and role rather than going into the history? This would also sort-a tone down the POV, no matter how controversial Zardari is as a public figure. Mar4d (talk) 10:13, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, the personal life section is usually at the top; Mar4d (talk) 11:50, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think the personal life section is usually at the top; for Barack Obama, David Cameron, Angela Merkel, Naoto Kan and Hu Jintao it's relatively far down near the end of their articles. I'd say it's a matter of significance; Zardari is not primarily known for his personal life, and his political career should be covered first. Huon (talk) 13:38, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Valid point; but regarding the long lead paragraphs, I still think much of it should be moved into the sections rather than at the top of the article. Mar4d (talk) 03:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Bilawal Zardari Bhutto
This page had an intense argument a while ago about Zardari and his Shia. Another similar argument has emerged in the Bilawal Bhutto Zardari page. Reformation32 (talk) 12:45, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Asif Zardari is not a Shia but an Anti Shia
Please remove the religion "Shia Islam" from the info box because his policies are apparent thta he is a an anti Shia and Saudi Wahabi Agent. Just yesterday he has has postponed the three death sentences to banned Sipahe Sahaba Activist who killed a Shia doctor some years back. As well In his existence the in Presidency Quetta has become Karbala for Hazara Shia and same for Parachinar Gilgit Baltistan and Karachi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.248.73.214 (talk) 21:59, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * As long as reliable sources state he's a Shia, that's what Wikipedia will report. His policies are not necessarily related to personal religious beliefs. Huon (talk) 23:30, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Windowdoom, 17 July 2011
Windowdoom (talk) 04:45, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Jnorton7558 (talk) 05:26, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Kalamkaar
This is to request that the sub heading in the section with respect to personal life titled 'Surrey Palace' is factually incorrect. While the government of Pakistan has laid claim to Surrey Palace multiple times, no such claim has been made by Asif Ali Zardari. Please note that the references in question are reports about the allegations in varying newspapers and no direct or indirect acceptance has been made neither can be found in these referred articles.

Thus I would request the following para to be rectified according to facts;

He initially denied for eight years that he owned the property and no-one paid the bills for the work on the unoccupied mansion.[45][263] Creditors forced a liquidation sale in 2004 and the Pakistani government claimed proceeds because the home was bought with money through corruption.[45] However, he stepped in to claim that he actually was the beneficial owner.[8] As of November 2008[update], the proceeds were in a liquidator bank account while a civil case continues.[45]

As follows;

He has so far denied that he owned the property and that he paid the bills for the work on the unoccupied mansion.[45][263] Creditors forced a liquidation sale in 2004 and the Pakistani government claimed proceeds because the home was bought with money through corruption.[45] As of November 2008[update], the proceeds were in a liquidator bank account while a civil case continues.[45]


 * The Guardian explicitly says that Zardari's lawyers claimed him to be the beneficial owner, in two different articles. The Guardian is a reliable source, and I see no reason to disregard it here. The distinction between Zardari making the claim and his lawyers making the claim on his behalf seems rather irrelevant. Huon (talk) 20:38, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Pictures that can be used for this page
Reformation32 (talk) 05:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Protection
Given the frequent vandalism this article faced in the past, and still persistently faces by random IPs as can be seen in the edit history log, why is this article not semi-protected? When you leave a GA article, that too on a controversial figure, open to editing, you are inviting the article to be ruined. Mar4d (talk) 08:05, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It was recently semiprotected and is at the moment (just not tagged) till 30 January 2012. Check out . --lTopGunl (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

AfPak War
I would have thought that this was too controversial a term to use as a section heading? 75.41.110.200 (talk) 00:06, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You are right. I have changed the sub-heading to War in Afghanistan. — Nearly Headless Nick   {C}  07:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Name in Urdu and Sindhi
The text looks same for both. Is there any difference? Urdu: آصف علی زرداری and Sindhi: آصف علي زرداري. — Nearly Headless Nick   {C}  09:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The Sindhi has two additional underlines. But I don't read or speak either and cannot tell how significant that is. Huon (talk) 12:47, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Huon. — Nearly Headless Nick   {C}  14:21, 11 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The underlines are vowels which are understood by the language speakers without being in place from the grammar. They are only used when being written for some one who can read the script but is not good with the grammar or spellings. The formal writing does not contain these. Both names are the same - should be written as (Urdu, Sindhi: Name) with the Urdu version. -- lTopGunl (talk) 08:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 January 2012
Please i am edit his Death Date

Malikliaquat (talk) 09:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Since Zardari is alive and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, I don't see how that would be possible. Huon (talk) 10:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Examine source
This source has been used multiple times in the article and should be examined for WP:UNDUE. — Nearly Headless Nick   {C}  13:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Zardari Set to Assume Pakistan's Presidency
 * At first glance it looks like a reliable secondary source which provides an in-depth history of Zardari before his presidency. The WSJ should be rather neutral in Pakistani affairs. Could you specify what use of this source might run afoul of WP:UNDUE? Huon (talk) 13:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Proper place of the following text
The following text was added by BrightStarSky under the section "Wealth", sub-section "Surrey estate", which i felt was not the right place for the addition:

Pakistan's Supreme Court on 12 July 2012 set 25 July as the deadline for the Prime Minister to approach the Swiss authoriies to reopen the graft cases against the President, Asif Ali Zardari. Failure to take action in the matter, would invite appropriate action under the Constitution, the Court warned.

Can a better location be suggested as i cannot find any? Perhaps a new section? Thanks! Anir1uph (talk) 05:35, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, the text is pretty relevant in the "wealth" section since the "graft cases" are about heaps of money (gained by questionable methods) stored in Swiss bank accounts. Perhaps the sentence can be better clarified, but the section in which it has been inserted seems fine.  Mar4d  ( talk ) 07:47, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "Wealth"yes, but "Surrey estate" seems wrong. A new subsection of "wealth", maybe "2012 judicial investigation"? On the other hand, this issue has cost Pakistan a Prime Minister, if I'm not mistaken, so maybe a new subsection of the "Presidency" could also do if we consider this a political issue. Huon (talk) 07:59, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It was in the sub-section Surrey estate. Also, this is a legal and government matter, and there is a whole section of Mr Zardari's legal problems on this page, so i thought it was better to first discuss it here. Thanks! Anir1uph (talk) 08:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 July 2013
In the intro, please change"is the 11th President of Pakistan"to"is the 11th and current President of Pakistan"Upon reading the intro sentence, I didn't realize that he was still the president; I thought it was a verb tense error (i.e. should be "was the 11th") in a sentence that the author intended to be similar to sentences such as was the 14th President of the United States. 2001:18E8:2:1020:2471:1719:86D3:F5A6 (talk) 20:35, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

2001:18E8:2:1020:2471:1719:86D3:F5A6 (talk) 20:35, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done BryanG (talk) 02:37, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

He was 11th President of Pakistan.
182.188.243.65 (talk) 02:10, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Already done The article already includes that fact in several places. If you have a specific request, please detail it and reactivate the template. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 02:34, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Sentence in opening paragraph needs more clarity
The sentence, "He is the first randi ka backa haram khoor madar chod of the year" is not entirely true since his power was stripped and handed over to the Prime Minister during his tenure. This point has been made later in the article but the above sentence needs to be qualified with this information. Otherwise, the sentence makes it seem like there were no significant events during his presidency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.10.100.185 (talk) 03:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2015
182.183.169.134 (talk) 17:00, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 17:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2015
119.63.142.41 (talk) 17:59, 31 August 2015 (UTC) If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 18:05, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2017
Please add net_worth in the personal information of the infobox. It will appear as

Source is in the Wealth section of the article where this amount is mentioned.

NOTE: To confirm the amount in PKR, Please see the template without year which converts to exact US$ as mentioned in the article with source. Now add year 2005 according to the source which makes it, the amount I requested you to add. And also in Wealth section rewrite wealth ammount using PKRConvert template as written above.--119.160.98.59 (talk) 00:26, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 22:39, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2017
Someone reverted the edit added by per my request. Please add the removed edit again. Here's the revision when it was added and in this edit it was removed.--139.190.118.184 (talk) 00:33, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Reverting editor in this case. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 00:35, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

@139.190.118.184 (talk), the edit you are requesting that is not notable according to the person's notibility. Mr Zardari is a former President. His notibility come from his political life not from his net worth. In infobox we write only about very notable information about the person. You can check other Politian's page. Net worth have been added in only business man's article as they are famous for their net worth.Ominictionary (talk)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — MRD 2014  Talk • Edits 14:26, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * This is the source and it is also present in the Wealth section. It is a notable information as he was named 2nd richest in the country.--139.190.118.184 (talk) 01:02, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Regardless of source, according to Ominictionary, Mr. Zarfari is NOT notable for his net worth, and no known RS talks about it. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 01:16, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * How is the 2nd richest person in a country not notable for his wealth? He is also the richest Pakistani politician and article also discusses about his wealth. So this information is notable enough for infobox. And it is totally correct to add net worth with a source in a good article.--139.190.118.184 (talk) 06:45, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've had enough of this! IP, please accept that this change fails WP:GNG., thank you for enforcing this. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 17:01, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2018
Category:Pakistani politicians convicted of crimes 194.176.105.138 (talk) 12:44, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Dolotta (talk) 14:27, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

His excellency
Is the honorific-prefix = His Excellency also used for Head of State whose term has ended? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaydbinumar (talk • contribs) 00:12, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * We do not use it for people in office as well. Zardari is special and unique. Sheriff &#124; ☎ 911 &#124; 00:18, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request
Please add his June 2019 arrest--2605:6000:1526:450B:40B7:E56B:B663:EE1D (talk) 19:04, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  JTP (talk • contribs) 19:14, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Zardari was arrested for corruption in June 2019. He was granted bail in December. As such, it would reflect an update.
 * Yes check.svg Done Albeit only partly as the BBC article doesn't mention that he was granted bail in December, another source would be necessary for that. RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 15:28, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Please add more about his arrest, the charges as well as medical bail.
 * ❌. Edit requests are for requests to make specific, precise edits, not general pleas for article improvement. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 22:55, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020
Died: 30 May 2020 37.111.136.145 (talk) 08:33, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --TheImaCow (talk) 08:47, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request
Please add his indictment in the Tosakhana grift case, as it would reflect an update.


 * ❌. Edit requests are for requests to make specific edits, not general pleas for article improvement. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 02:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Under Post-presidency, can we add this indictment?2605:6000:1526:450B:C935:6A83:8FB8:4059 (talk) 20:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done With supplied refernence Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2021
103.31.100.229 (talk) 11:02, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No edit requested. Closing. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:38, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2021
The Photo of His Highness Mr. Asif Ali Zardari is changed with some nonsense actor called waqar zaka. Kindly remove his photo and upload Asif Ali Zardari’s photo. 37.208.148.147 (talk) 17:52, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I rolled back that vandalism and reported the vandal. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:00, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2021
Asif ali zardari belongs to Baloch Jatt zardari tribe Haly601 (talk) 00:16, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:22, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Save us
We are all one and must look out for the people around us. Give without wanting anything back. The water that flows threw the river of Gods kingdom changes with the water  resources. Please share 2601:8C0:680:600:DA1:EAFF:255:F511 (talk) 03:49, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2021 (wrong info in "Spirituality" subsection)
Hi in the "Spirituality" subsection it's said Zardari is a Shia, but if you follow the source it's about a Sufi master, nothing about Shi'a, so I think we should replace Shia by Sufi there. Thanks.
 * The source actually supports neither of those variants, so the subsection has been removed entirely. Actualcpscm (talk) 07:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, please go back through the link, Dr Ahmed Rafique Akhtar is a well known Sufi figure in the country, so the link that says Zardari is his disciple implies he's himself Sufi and not Shi'a (as previously written), thanks 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:7027:23CA:905C:63F2 (talk) 18:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. You need a citation which specifically says that Zardari is a Sufi. To infer that from his visit is WP:SYNTH, and not allowable. Please do not open this edit request again until you have proper documentation. Thanks, Xan747 (talk) 20:04, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi many articles on him visiting Sufi shrines but finally I think yeah it's not that clear but perhaps we could bring back the whole subsection + text BUT by taking out the "Sufi" reference ? Basically just to show he's a disciple of Dr Akhtar 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:7027:23CA:905C:63F2 (talk) 06:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lightoil (talk) 08:14, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, there was a subsection called "Spirituality" between "Family" and "Health" subsections (in the "Personal life" section).
 * I was thus just wondering that if instead of taking it out completely we could just bring it back and rephrase it without infering about Zardari's private faith (Shia or Sufi).
 * So this is what I want to add in the "Spirituality" section (that is if brought back) :
 * "Zardari is a a disciple of Prof. Ahmad Rafique Akhtar, a Sufi writer from Gujjar Khan who is the guide of many other officials from civil and military circles as well, and Zardari is known to take advice from other soothsayers and healers, including Pir Mohammad Ejaz, when he has political troubles, often offering animal sacrifice. ">
 * Thanks! 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:77C2:220B:6F8:A903 (talk) 19:16, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Not done: The citation you gave still does not support the addition you want to make. It simply says that Zardar made a visit to Dr Akhtar, accompanied by "scores" of other government officials. It also says that Dr Akhtar is frequently visited by such dignitaries seeking his advice, but not that Zardar himself has frequently visited him--nowhere does it say Zardar is a disciple of Dr Akhtar. Nothing is known about anything that was said in the meeting--apparently the press were not invited. Finally, your source doesn't say that Dr Akhtar is a Sufi, but I did you a favor and found a book that says so clearly in the title. I think the best you can get out of this is something like:

Zardari is known to seek the advice of 'soothsayers and healers', especially during times of political troubles. He has visited Prof. Ahmad Rafique Akhtar, a well-known Sufi scholar who often counsels government officials and military leaders. During his presidency, he would consult with his then spiritual leader, Pir Mohammad Ejaz about such matters as travel times, and animals were sacrificed at particularly trying times.

If that is acceptable, ping me and I will make the edit. Xan747 (talk) 00:55, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes please go on, this is more or less a better rephrasing (English not my native tongue) of the paragraph I proposed, but just few extra propositions :
 * To precise that Akhtar is from Gujar Khan (so probably "...a well-known Sufi scholar based in Gujar Khan who often counsels...")
 * Also in the following :
 * "...then spiritual leader, Pir Mohammad Ejaz about..."
 * I believe there should either be no comma (",") or if there's a "," after "leader" there should be one after "Ejaz" too, to keep the fluidity of the sentence.
 * Lastly if possible to redirect "Pir" (that is of Pir Mohammad Ejaz) to the following page (as I did in my proposition) to get a better context of the individual mentionned :
 * Pir (Sufism) - Wikipedia
 * Thanks! 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:77C2:220B:6F8:A903 (talk) 08:06, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅, with the further edits you requested, and some slight rephrasing by me. I have a feeling this will be a controversial edit. If it gets reverted, please establish consensus for inclusion before opening another edit request. Thanks, Xan747 (talk) 15:22, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Personal Secretary
persnol Secretary Abdullah Baloch 2404:3100:1441:89D0:9448:F65:1011:22C (talk) 11:49, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2024
Asif Ali Zardari assumed office as 14th President of Pakistan. FullyIslamist (talk) 12:59, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Corruption
'Mr. 10%' becomes Mr. President” - France24 94.173.201.168 (talk) 04:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC)