Talk:BYU Jerusalem Center

controversy
removed sentence claiming death threats. No citation. citation provided was regarding an unrelated event —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.8.63.233 (talk) 19:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Delete reference to creation of state for Jews. "The first LDS official to enter Jerusalem was LDS Apostle Orson Hyde, who came in 1841 and dedicated the land for the gathering of the people of Israel, and the building of an LDS temple at some future time. No citation to text of dedicatory prayer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dvwhiting (talk • contribs) 22:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Directors of the Center
I'm compiling a cited list here to be fleshed out:


 * R. J. Snow. 1998-2000 http://newnewsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/56416 http://magazine.byu.edu/g/?act=view&a=129
 * Truman G. Madsen 1991-1993 http://newnewsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/57903 http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&a=920
 * David B. Galbraith 1987-1988 http://newsroom.byuh.edu/node/517
 * S. Kent Brown 1993-1996 http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/ispartstaff/viewbio.php?whois=67 http://www.fairlds.org/Book_of_Mormon/Arabia_and_the_Book_of_Mormon.html
 * Arnold H. Green 2000- http://magazine.byu.edu/g/?act=view&a=129
 * Martin Hickman 1988- http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&a=905

-- Wrad (talk) 22:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool. I called BYU and they said James Kearl (citation needed) is the current director, although he is not on-site. --Eustress (talk) 22:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like his official title is "Assistant to the President for the Jerusalem Center" . Different from director of center, I guess? Wrad (talk) 22:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Fred A. Schwendiman was project director for the construction of the Center. http://magazine.byu.edu/g/?act=view&a=456 Wrad (talk) 22:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

shining eyes
''"When the Church was negotiating with the Jewish officials regarding the purchase of land and the construction of the Jerusalem Center, one of the conditions for approval was that we would not proselytize citizens in Israel. Reportedly, after we had pledged acceptance of that condition, someone in Israel said to a member about the agreement, "But how do you stop the shining in your eyes? Every one of you has it" (in Cheryl Brown, "Bright Minds and Broken Hearts," Brigham Young University 1996­97 Speeches [Provo: BYU, 1997], 172). What a tremendous compliment to our students and members who are lighting candles--lights shining forth as righteous examples."'' http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=511 A more detailed version of the story is here.

This is one of the more famous stories about the Center within the LDS Church, but I don't know where to put it quite yet. Wrad (talk) 19:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe this type of stuff could go in some kind of "Legend" or "Legacy" section? --Eustress (talk) 19:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we need a section that briefly summarizes the LDS view of Jerusalem and ties that into the Center as a spiritually significant place to Latter-day Saints. Wrad (talk) 19:53, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Gathering other LDS bits here:

''Another example of President Hunter's courage and determination to complete a task given him by the First Presidency is demonstrated by the completion of the Jerusalem Center. President Hunter purchased the land, supervised the architecture and construction of the center, and negotiated with government and religious leaders the teaching objectives for the center. During the years it took to complete the Jerusalem Center, President Hunter demonstrated a steadfastness and courage against opposition. He told those who worked with him, "Go ahead, move forward. Don't take counsel from your fears." How often we don't even try, and we fail simply because of our fear of failure.'' http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=7708

''Resolving family problems lies at the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict in the Middle East. "We are two brothers," a priest in Jerusalem said to me, "born in the same cradle." In the Jerusalem Center we employed both Israeli and Palestinian workers. They worked side by side--respectfully, for the most part; hopefully; and with responsibility. That microcosm of Holy Land society leads me to believe--to hope--that there is a solution to the anger between the two peoples. As I discussed such things with my friends on both sides of the issues, I was amazed to discover that everyone--really everyone whom I knew--wanted peace. They wanted the leaders to work out solutions. They didn't hate each other. They knew there was some way to live together to the mutual benefit of both sides without encroaching on each other's beliefs.''

''I watched Abdullah, a Palestinian worker, stand respectfully at attention on the balcony of the Jerusalem Center as the siren sounded for Prime Minister Rabin's funeral after he was assassinated. I saw our Israeli security chief hire Palestinian workers to help guard the center, and on one occasion when fire broke out because children were playing with matches under some nearby brush, my Israeli friend watched one of our fine Palestinian workers wade into that fire with our fire hose, remarking to me, "When I'm in trouble, I want Ali to be right there. Ali is a brave man."'' http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=496

''For the past several years I have assisted President Howard W. Hunter, who was assigned by the First Presidency to acquire land in Jerusalem and direct the building of the BYU Jerusalem Center for Near Eastern Studies. We worked very closely with President Jeffrey R. Holland, David Galbraith, Robert Taylor, Fred Schwendiman, and many, many others in this great endeavor. Through a series of miracles, a center came into being and is now being used by students of this university. The building is magnificent. It is a veritable jewel. None of us who have been involved can explain what we feel in our souls regarding that wonderful edifice. The building is close to some of the places made sacred by the presence of the Savior. It is worthy of the Holy City. It is worthy of this great university and its sponsoring institution, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But the building alone does not bless. Now our great challenge is to use the building so that it somehow, someway, influences the lives of those who study there, who pray there, who worship there--and who change and become more worthy. The magnificence of the center alone may inspire, but our many educational facilities and activities on this campus and elsewhere will get no one into the kingdom of God. So, where is the Church then?'' http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=7043

''Or as we have recently described the purpose of the BYU Jerusalem Center, our purpose is not only to orient our students to the Holy Land, but to orient them to the holy life. How can we do that? Each teacher, faculty or staff, must find his or her own way, and some settings are more natural than others for making connections that help students see how secular interests fit within the larger sacred sphere.'' http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=11610

here is a good story about a BYU musical production in Tel Aviv during the protests. I like Elder Hunter's quote in it.

--- Wrad (talk) 19:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Legacy
Here's what I'm seeing for a legacy section after a review of what we have to work with:


 * A description of LDS beliefs about Jerusalem
 * The Center as it stands in relation to those beliefs
 * The Center as a place for spiritual growth for students
 * The Center as an example to Israel of who Latter-day Saints are

-- Wrad (talk) 19:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know. The third and last one look more appropriate for the website of the Church or the center.  I don't think you can find reliable, impartial refs for them.  &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 16:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The whole point of this section is to round things off with a section about what the center means to latter-day saints. It isn't intended to be impartial. It's like explaining the significance of Mecca to Muslims. If you don't explain it, you aren't getting the full picture, and there's no way to be impartial about it. Wrad (talk) 20:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Noted, but it can be presented in a NPOV manner. Everything can.  You can say the Church intends for students to grow spiritually while at the center, but you can't say "students grow spiritually because of their time at the Center" unless you quote it from somewhere, such as someone's testimony.  But then that's not very NPOV, even if it is quoted.


 * The same goes for "the Center as an example to Israel of who Latter-day Saints are". You can say the Church hopes Israeli's get a better understanding of who Latter-day Saints are because of the Center.  But you can't say the Center is an example to Israeli's of who the Latter-day Saints are.  That's not NPOV.  Again, you can quote something to that effect, but you can't state it in the rest of the prose of the article, because it's not NPOV.


 * You seem to be an experienced editor here and are well-versed in NPOV. So, I think we're on the same page here.  I just wanted to make sure everything is presented according to Wikipedia standards. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 12:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think we're on the same page too. Have a look at the section after it's written. Wrad (talk) 20:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

GA?
I think we're about ready for GA, once the last few refs are fleshed out. Wrad (talk) 18:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Looks like it's already been nominated, but we should have plenty of time to resolve any issues before the article's reviewed. I think the Mission section text regarding LDS beliefs could be better supported. Also, have you ever written an institution requesting permission to use pics? --Eustress (talk) 18:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've only ever written to individuals. Wrad (talk) 20:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Farside6 (talk) 23:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Small discrepancy
I noticed that this article states that BYU is the largest private university, whereas if you go to the main BYU page it states that it is the second largest university. It is a small difference but I thought I would point it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BJSpack (talk • contribs) 21:12, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This article doesn't say that. It only says that it's the largest religious university in the US, not the largest private university. Wrad (talk) 15:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

misleading grouping of Mormons with "other Christian groups"
The article states misleadingly that "The 1980s saw many other Christian groups vying for representation and space in the city." I suggest that this should read "The 1980s saw not only Mormons but many Christian groups vying...." Due attention to neutral viewpoint needs to be taken because Christians typically do not regard Mormons as Christian due to the Latter Day Saints belief in a "trinity" of three gods (as well as the prospect for Mormons to become gods) as opposed to the defining Christian belief in only one God in three persons. Mormons hold substantially different beliefs than Christianity. That is a relevant fact in this story, since Mormonism is another religion entering into the highly charged, fiercely contested land where Judaism, Christianity and Islam all make claims. Thus at least four religions see Jerusalem as a city holy to them. Elizdelphi (talk) 23:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)


 * First, new sections belong at the bottom (I moved it for you). Second, you say that "due attention to neutral viewpoint needs to be taken", but you seem to take a very POV stance, and go on to point out why Mormons are not Christian. Mormons consider themselves Christian. But this is the talk page and not the article space, so you can be as POV as you like here. That being said, I think your rewording is fairly NPOV and can be added to the article (I'll do it for you unless someone else beat me to it). But this is a fairly benign change. Next time you can be bold and go ahead and make such a minor change without discussion. — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 15:49, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

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Is Emek Tzurim the boundary betw. Scopus and Olivet?
If yes, then BYU is on the Olivet side! Even if its own website claims the opposite. See clear aerial image at. Arminden

Israel vs East Jerusalem
Technically, East Jerusalem is not in Israel. Change the location. This is important since there is controversy with the whole american institute normalizing the annexation of Jerusalem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.203.194.36 (talk) 20:21, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2019
Add 1986 Mordechai Ben David song "Jerusalem is not for sale" to the controversy section. The song is of one of the most famous and popular ultra-Orthodox singers and includes has a line saying "Jerusalem is not for sale! Voices crying, thundering throughout our cities. You better run for your life, back to Utah overnight, Before the mountaintop opens wide to swallow you inside."TabletMag article on the song is a good source for this. MidwoodMartin (talk) 22:19, 22 October 2019 (UTC)


 * ❌. It's unclear how this relates to the section or why the lyrics need to be included.  Indeed, the article you mentioned merely uses this as a sort of teaser to introduce the topic, not really as anything that seems like it would add to the section if it were included. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 16:43, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 Apr 2022
I'm hoping to edit this page, which has not been updated since the style guide was updated in August 2018 regarding the name of the church that sponsors the BYU Jerusalem Center, which is referenced often in this article. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has requested the following: "While the term 'Mormon Church' has long been publicly applied to the Church as a nickname, it is not an authorized title, and the Church discourages its use. Thus, please avoid using the abbreviation 'LDS' or the nickname 'Mormon' as substitutes for the name of the Church, as in 'Mormon Church,' 'LDS Church,' or 'Church of the Latter-day Saints.'

I realize that the greater movement of churches and peoples related to it is still referenced by the name Mormon (as in terms like "Mormon studies") and I will of course be level-headed and tasteful with any style edits that I am allowed to make, and request any authorized user to do the same.
 * ❌. While this is a valid request, Wikipedia has its own Manuel of Style, which is the way that articles are written here. In accordance with the part of the Manuel of Style in regard to the church, MOS:LDS, the use of LDS Church is an appropriate way to refer to the church, especially as it parallels what is found in many reliable sources. If you want to make a general request to change how to refer to the church here on Wikipedia, while it has been extensively discussed, the best place to do it would be on the Manuel of Style's talk page. All the best, Rollidan (talk) 00:34, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 December 2023
The page preview of this article does not display correctly because the coordinates have been put at the top, instead of at the bottom. see Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_206 for a better explanation

the coordinates just need to be moved to the bottom JD Cornbread (talk) 14:45, 20 December 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅  Delta  space 42 (talk • contribs) 15:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 July 2024
Please note that the center is closed since mid October 2023 and will remain suspended until at least August 2024 due to the Israel-Gaza war. Editorialq (talk) 13:37, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 15:32, 1 July 2024 (UTC)