Talk:Black sheep

UDC in Switzerland
Interestingly, the UDC in Switzerland recently (Oct 2007) used the image of the black sheep to make their point about immigration controls. This is racist. If they had used a goat it would have been fine, because goats deserve it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.62.130.8 (talk • contribs) 21:59, 16 November 2007‎

Removed (black sheep or scapegoat?)

 * I've removed this because it seems to be confused with the "scapegoat" role in the family:


 * "A black sheep is the member of a rigidly triangulated family, who holds the rest tightly together by being identified as the bad/sick/deviant one who causes all the family problems. In this situation, the rule enforcer in the family is charged with the job of controlling the black sheep from revealing the family secrets."
 * The "black sheep" is a family dynamic - the one that "sticks out" from the others. I cannot write about it as it would be original research. Most children self-identify as the black sheep of the family because of feeling different. Not only because they are bad or sick. Of course it is assumed to be true, but it is really the behavior that makes them stick out, ie. drug addiction, grandiose behaviour, disobedience - not necessarily "sick" or "causes all the family problems". In fact, being the "black sheep" can be a postive if the family dynamic is reversed. Say, the family is disfuctional, but the one, the black sheep, is the one that sticks out because it has excelled, and is different from the "sick" family - something significant that makes them "stick out" from the others. Is there a citation for this? I can't find one, even though I know it to be true in a sense. It's another role in the family dynamics. Scapegoat, on the other hand does have much more resources to cite to, and is not the same as the black sheep of the family, but is often confused with it. Although one can be both the scapegoat and the black sheep of the family. There are no reliable sources though, that I can find anyway, that would justify this conclusion or the one that I've removed. →  Gee Alice  ♥  20:34, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Removing it makes good sense to me, nice work. Van Tucky  talk 02:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

"black sheep" can be a positive
This comes up in discussions of 'political correctness' in the UK (at least). Some claim the phrase should no longer be used, since it contains the association black=bad, which can be seen as a racial slur. Others claim 'black sheep' can be inverted, when a good person stands out from a bad crowd. Looking for definitions and usage via Google, it is so asymmetric that I would regard the rare 'inverted' usage as irony. Citation needed ?

As to the value of a non-white sheep : see Jacob sheep in the Bible! His master gave away lambs that were just spotted - note also sacrificial lambs should be unblemished.

--195.137.93.171 (talk) 23:59, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

"In modern usage, the expression has lost some of its negative connotations, and the term is usually given to the member of a group who has certain characteristics or lack thereof deemed undesirable by that group." Isn't 'undesirable' negative ? This sentence seems to contradict itself.

The 'Folklore Dictionary' link via answers.com is clearly talking about an actual four-legged sheep being a positive harbinger of good luck to the shepherd, rather than the idiom (which is the topic of this article) being positive. --195.137.93.171 (talk) 00:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

First project for Wikipedia
As of April 2, 2008, edited this page as first project. Any comments appreciated. Did the following:
 * 1) Added link to Wiktionary.   Floated TOC and picture.
 * 2) From previous posts, learned that page direction was for terminology, not necessarily biology. But added more succinct genetic information citation to definition, making the body of the text heavier.  Added short biology section because of this.
 * 3) Found more usage of the term "black sheep." Depending on the group culture using the phrase, it was either positive or negative, so further clarified usage by splitting the term into two groupings with citations and examples for each.  I know Baa Baa Black Sheep was removed once.  However, it is an example of the use of the term.  The other examples should be obvious.  If not how do I clarify.
 * 4) Did not find a standard template for citation on this page.  Would anyone let me know what the standard for this page is and how it was chosen, and I will go back and change.  Thanks. FV2WRLD (talk) 07:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Black sheep with white wool
What about those? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 18:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Common in German
I meant to add that the idiom is also very common in German, but I would need to log in to do that, and I seem to fail at that. :( So could someone else please do that for me? Thanks you.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.111.109.220 (talk) 10:52, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Pink sheep
A variant on "black sheep of the family", "pink sheep of the family", has been popular in gay circles for a while now. I couldn't find many reliable sources but it is mentioned in |this article (if that can be considered "reliable"). 173.206.164.43 (talk) 23:08, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

"White crow" in Polish
Please refer with this when speaking about "white crow" to make the reader aware that this term in Russian is not to be confused with similarly sounding term in Polish.

"White crow" in Polish ("biały kruk") means something completely different than "Black sheep" (which also functions in Polish). White crow mainly refers to books - it generally means a book that is present in the world in very few exemplars and it's extremely hard to find it. It happens to be extended to any domain with the general meaning of an implementation of something abstract (when book, then also music album, car model, smartphone model etc.) that is extremely hard to be found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ethouris (talk • contribs) 14:02, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Science Daily Says that Black Sheep are the Norm in the Wild
White sheep became the norm out of selective breeding:

"The wild-type coat color of sheep is typically dark-bodied with a pale belly, however sheep raisers have strongly selected for a uniformly white coat domestic sheep."

Science Daily, July 2008

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080710174236.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.145.179.21 (talk) 17:23, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

The Origin section should be changed to reflect the fact that originally (in the wild), dark-colored sheep were the norm, but humans selectively bred white sheep in domesticated herds. Thus, in nature, white sheep are oddities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.145.179.21 (talk) 03:35, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2016

 * Blacksheep

151.250.206.213 (talk) 14:53, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 17:56, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Welsh Black Sheep
Within this encyclopedia there is an item with the above title. The breed of black sheep exists, and comes from Wales, UK. It is not the result if an abnormal genes occurrence but a properly recognized breed with its own character and adaptability to the mountainous conditions in Wales.Macrocompassion (talk) 16:30, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

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