Talk:Carriage/Archive 1

Oldest comments
The list of types of carriages each need a brief description, which might be enough to make a further link unnecessary. Some links, like Surrey do not lead to carriage articles as it is. --Wetman 02:47, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I have been through the list correcting/updating the links. I have deleted rickshaw and trishaw which do not appear to be horse drawn. Op. Deo 09:08, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Merging
When merging this article with Horse-drawn vehicles one would somehow still have to accomodate the followin info:

The word car meaning "wheeled vehicle", came from Norman French at the beginning of the 14th century; it was extended to cover automobile in 1896.

In British English a railway carriage (also called a coach) is a railroad car designed and equipped for conveying passengers.


 * In British English at least a Waggon (or wagon) is not always unsprung so the claimed distinction seems odd. Railway wagons are always sprung of course. The statement about sprung v unsprung thus needs clarification — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.2.110.250 (talk) 21:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

In American English, a baby carriage is a wheeled conveyance for reclining infants (British English perambulator or pram), usually with a hood that can be adjusted to protect the baby from the sun.

In some parts of New England, a carriage (or shopping carriage) is sometimes a shopping cart. --Peter Horn 02:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Note that a "carriage" is also a carrier for a cannon or large gun in English/UK at least 81.2.110.250 21:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not to mention 'carriage' = 'hanger' for a sword, see Hamlet 5:2--Hamlet makes a joke about people carrying cannon, so the usage is evidently new (in Tudor times); not sure if it is still current. --D Anthony (I ♥ parentheses) Patriarche (talk) 12:27, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Some overlooked articles
There should be links with the poor stubs Irish State Coach, Scottish State Coach and the mistitled Gold State Coach. --Wetman 22:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree. The article is about types of conveyances that anyone might have owned. The ones you name are unique, individual carriages. -- Michael K Smith Talk 01:00, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Pictures
I took out two of the pictures and moved some of the rest around. Having four of them in the header is overkill, and the complications were introducing many bugs on the page, in Firefox and IE at least. — supreme_geek_overlord 03:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Horse articles discussion moved here
Hello all of you knowledgeable people, seeing as you are all interested in carriages I was wondering if you have had much to do with the competition or the pleasure side of carriage driving there is a new article on carriage driving which covers the actual use in the past and today of these vehicles and the animals which pull them. Any ideas? then the new article would become awesome with your help, thanks Bananas'n'Cream58.165.247.121 02:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Please note that above article has now been merged with Driving (horse) with a redirect. Montanabw (talk) 16:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Word Origins
Car is Brythonic not Norman French and a very very old word for wheeled vehicles. Thus the 14th C french claim seems odd and wants referencing/double checking 81.2.110.250 21:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Buggy
When I say carriage, some people think buggy, but carriages aren't buggys:

BUGGY: Square Grey Made for getting around in and maybe leisure, but not elegance.

CARRIAGE: Any Shape Any Color Made for elegance, leisure, and to get around in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.10.49.31 (talk) 01:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, "buggy" was Regency-period slang for a curricle, which is a type of carriage. "Buggy" later acquired a number of other, quite disparate meanings in different places at different times. -- Michael K Smith Talk 01:04, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Redundancies
In the header it says that litters are not included because they are litters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.118.56 (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

speed/s of horse carriages
could we have a section on that please ...maximum speed that could be achieved by a horse drawn carriage ? - bohidar, delhi, india. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.240.238.106 (talk) 07:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Average speed is probably more useful. Horses walk at about 4 mph, trot at 9 to 12, canter at 15-20, and gallop at 25-30 (racehorses in a sprint can do 45).  They can walk for hours, trot for an hour or two, canter for half an hour or so, gallop for a few minutes.  A carriage with a fresh team on a good road could probably keep up 15 for a couple of miles.  I seem to remember an average of 9 mph for stage coaches (changing teams regularly), but can't think of a ref.  For journeys of more than a few hours a horse doesn't average much more than a human walker.  (MontanaBW or someone else who actually knows what they're talking about will be along in a minute...)  Richard New Forest 11:10, 16 August 2009 (talk)


 * It also depends a great deal on the type of vehicle, and the quality of the horses. A sporty young gentleman in early 19th century Britain might pride himself on having a "six-mile-an-hour pair" -- a matched pair of horses that could draw a curricle at a sustained pace of six mph for some distance. (The 1810 equivalent of an MG, sort of.) -- Michael K Smith Talk 01:08, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

stool
if anyone knows the name of the stool people used for entering and exiting the carriage, it should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.239.87 (talk) 20:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Going back to c.1800, public conveyances in Britain and eastern U.S. (like stages and post chaises) had built-in fold-down steps for the use of passengers. A personal phaeton (which required climbing up to get into) might have a removable stool -- also called a "step" -- but one was more likely to have a groom to assist one in and out. -- Michael K Smith Talk 01:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Types of horse-drawn carriages
I noticed that the Types of horse-drawn carriages section contains many red links and links to short articles. The Dos á dos carriage article was recently merged into Dogcart. It might be useful to have an article entitled Types of horse-drawn carriages. The article could have a short definition to each carriage type with links to the larger articles. The short articles that are essentially definitions and unlikely to grow could simply have the content moved to the new article with the existing page set to re-direct to the appropriate section of the new page. The article could help clean up issues on this article and the related:  Coach (carriage) and Horse-drawn vehicle. This would take some effort, so I wanted to get some feedback and maybe some help. Any thoughts? HornColumbia (talk) 19:18, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. Richard New Forest (talk) 22:18, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I wish someone would do just that. I notice today that a number of the links in that list are no longer what was intended; "hackney" leads to a page about motor vehicles, "chaise" and "post chaise" lead to the same page (with nothing said about the latter term), etc. I've put it on my to-do list but it's going to be awhile. Also, a number of the pages linked to (like "curricle") have no illustrations at all. There's gotta be 19th century illustrations available of any sort of horse-drawn vehicle you can think of. -- Michael K Smith Talk 01:16, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Windows - when and what
Would be nice to have some info on carriage windows -- when did they start using glass, what was used before that, etc. I can't find anything other than some unsourced statement on Yahoo!Answers that glass windows came around in the early 17th c. 15:44, 11 June 2012 (UTC)Bookgrrl — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.235.155 (talk)

Differentiation between carriage and coach in lead
Carriage and coach sound pretty similar. Someone who knows their stuff ought to help visitors understand the difference by putting an explanation right up in the lead of both articles. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:14, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Image
The lead image at this article and coach should be a normal vehicle, and not some fancy pants, atypical gold thing that will turn back into a pumpkin at midnight. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:14, 16 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree. Intend to bring this article to GA-status in the near future, mainly out of personal interest. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your prize!) 14:31, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 29 March 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the pages to the proposed titles at this time, although there is a question of ambiguity that might be dealt with as an editorial decision outside the scope of this process. Dekimasu よ! 19:31, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

– To remove the current confusion between coach and carriage and other usages of the same words. Horse-drawn carriages because that is the carriage's principal motive power although in some parts of the world mules were common. Rickshawmen and the like, donkeys, goats and dogs all play their part too but horse-drawn is primary. Cattle draw heavier things slower and they are rarely passengers unless they accompany heavy freight. Eddaido (talk) 08:33, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Carriage → Carriage, horse-drawn
 * Coach (carriage) → Coach, horse-drawn
 * So what ends up at Carriage? Andy Dingley (talk) 09:17, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, . . . nothing. I'm not sure that's a good thing. The OED lists 32 distinct meanings for that one word before it moves on to compounds. Some of the compounds used in WP are here. I have suggested replacing the single word with carriage, horse-drawn only to strengthen the relationship with Coach, horse-drawn. I should have given it more consideration. I'd be interested and pleased to read on here better proposals. As I said, my only reason for adding horse-drawn to carriage was to underline the connection and maybe that's unnecessary? Eddaido (talk) 11:33, 29 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose good faith nom for now (will keep watch of the discussion). This would seem to be the primary, as 'horse-drawn' is implied if a reader is looking for that term. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:19, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Does that apply to both carriage and coach? Eddaido (talk) 11:33, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, and it's also the probable common usage of the term, as even the first sentence of the 'Coach' page includes the descriptor: "A coach is originally a large, usually closed, four-wheeled carriage with two or more horses harnessed as a team...". Horse drawn carriage already directs to carriage, and I'll create the redirect Horse drawn coach to Coach (carriage), so the reader won't get lost if searching for the terms. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:06, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Aha, the crux of the matter, this definition of a coach as a carriage - carriage is such a wide term, please let the discussion develop before making any changes! Eddaido (talk) 12:10, 29 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose the suggested new name. If the page is to be disambiguated, it should be Horse-drawn carriage because that's the natural way to say it. See Article titles. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:34, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And similarly Horse-drawn coach? Eddaido (talk) 11:38, 29 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Hmmm...it works for Meal, Ready-to-Eat, but oppose previous two commenters. OED is a dictionary, but Wikipedia is not.  —  AjaxSmack  01:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose per above - Current name is fine. – Davey 2010 Talk 21:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose. It would have to be “usually horse-drawn” anyway. The carriage doesn’t stop being a carriage when the horse stops drawing it, or even never started.  —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:43, 4 April 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:38, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Carriage render.jpg

Bullock Carriages
I think Bullock Carriages would make a good addition to this wikipedia. It was previously added with a note to expand it (which I did), but then someone removed right after I finished my expansion. I think it should go under the history section as there is evidence it predates horse-drawn chariots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Urchincrawler (talk • contribs) 09:38, 17 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The above unsigned comment was made by a new editor, see User talk:Urchincrawler
 * Some weeks ago you added a note to this article about something you called a bullock carriage. You mean a bullock cart but why did you add it to the article? Its not a carriage. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 02:09, 18 November 2021 (UTC)


 * No, I meant bullock carriage because it has four (4) wheels. For the sake of consistency, a carriage, a coach (carriage) and a wagon have four wheels and a cart and chariot have two wheels. Peter Horn User talk 20:12, 18 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The two wheeled version is the bullock cart Peter Horn User talk 20:29, 18 November 2021 (UTC)