Talk:Chiang Kai-shek

Birth country Qing Empire or Qing China?
What should we refer to the China that was led by the Qing dynasty: Qing Empire or Qing China? Also says birthplace as Qing Empire on the Sun Yat-sen article. Alexysun (talk) 06:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Be wary of WP:OTHERCONTENT as an argument in itself. I frankly think it's clunky to list either in the context of an infobox. It's not relevant here since he was born in a different polity than he died in, but it's not that bizarre much of the time in the case of China to omit the dynasty in one or both parameters imo. If we have to list something, I think "Qing China" is bad, but "Qing Empire" is worse. "Qing dynasty" is likely the most correct on Wikipedia, as it's a pretty natural synecdoche when referring to the polity. I might prefer simply "Qing", but that wouldn't really work on Wikipedia. Remsense  诉  06:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok. You said a lot of things without offering a definitive solution. His article on the Traditional Chinese Wikipedia states his birthplace as "大清浙江省宁波府奉化縣溪口鎮玉泰鹽鋪". 大清 directly translates to Big Qing or Great Qing. So I'd say Qing Empire or Qing China isn't bad. Alexysun (talk) 07:19, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I did, though. I mentioned two options that I do not like, and an option I prefer.
 * If we don't make choices based solely on what other English Wikipedia articles say, then we surely do not based on what other language Wikipedias say. We're trying to choose terminology that's well-understood and natural for an English language audience. That's probably simply "Qing dynasty", which is also the article name. By comparison, "Qing China" and "Qing Empire" are not the terms preferred by most writers, and they look a bit clunky and unnatural. When in doubt, use the article name. Remsense  诉  07:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Remsense Ok I get what you're saying now. You're trying to use terms that are most commonly used/understood in English-speaking society. Alexysun (talk) 17:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * As is policy on the English Wikipedia, yes. Remsense  诉  14:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Note that the corresponding article on Chinese Wikipedia currently actually states his birthplace as "清朝浙江省宁波府奉化县溪口镇玉泰盐铺", where "清朝" means Qing dynasty. Clearly it is the norm (EDIT: what I meant is that it is the norm even in the Chinese language). --Wengier (talk) 16:43, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * While I do think this gestures to evidence, there's certainly a lot of Chinese-language style norms we don't adapt across wikis into English, Remsense  诉  17:07, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course, Chinese-language style norms and English-language style norms may be very different, such as in the case of Northern Yuan. But in this case, it is actually the norm even in the Chinese language. --Wengier (talk) 17:11, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Change in infobox image
I propose a change in the infobox image for the subject. The proposed image is an official portrait of Chiang from 1955, which is the one used on Chinese Wikipedia. Personally I believe the new image looks better, and more in the style of historic politician portaits (e.g. Mao or Zhou Enlai). Fellow KMT commanders such as He Yingqin and Chen Cheng all have official photos of them in suits taken from around the same era, instead of them in military uniforms. I'm pinging some notable editors (who are still active) of this page, sorry if this bothers:,, ,, Zinderboff(talk) 09:03, 23 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with this for the reasons stated. Remsense  诉  10:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Your rationale makes good sense to me as well. JArthur1984 (talk) 13:29, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree -- it's fine to have an "official" but not military photo at the head of the article, esp. since we have a range of styles in the images down the page.ch (talk) 18:43, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Order of Brilliant Jade
If anyone can find a source for him receiving the Order of Brilliant Jade, adding it to the article for the award as well would be appreciated. Thanks. Damien Linnane (talk) 00:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)