Talk:Chris de Burgh

Edit conflict
There was an edit conflict while I was performing some pretty major wikifying surgery to this article, but the diffs seemed to indicate that whoever the other party was, all they were doing was wikifying themselves! I blanked their version and replaced it with my version since I had done some grammar fixing, and then I added (which was the only extra thing that their version had.)  I hope the other party finds my changes to be in the spirit of their edits. --Ardonik.talk 01:09, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)

Lady In Red
I removed Lady in Red from the discography because it is not an album. Although it is his most successful single, it is not an album, as everything else in the discography is. LIR is on Into The Light. There were a variety of compilations by CdeB, but not one called LIR as far as I know. See http://www.cdeb.com/maindexnew.html for official album discography. Ringbark 18:54, 4 October 2005 (UTC) There was an album called 'Lady In Red; The Very Best of Chris de Burgh' released in America

Classic or classical?
82.143.162.72 12:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)Would you really call 'Beautiful Dreams' a classic album? It's certainly classical (the style is classical) but I'm not sure even if you defined classic in terms of the proportion of positive reviews compared with other albums that it would be safe to use the term without introducing POV.

Ancestry
Now he was born in Ireland, he trace his ancestry back to Richard the Lion Hearted, well thats what i'm aslo trying to do with his earlier ancestors the Lords of Connacht and Earls of Ulster. now i'm sorry i don't know how to put my thing down that tells my user name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.158.76.102 (talk • contribs)

I always thought he was adopted - I could have sworn I saw him years ago on a TV show where he said that.

He was born in Argentina to British parents and is a British national. At least, that's what he says on his website:

British parentS? His mother is Irish (Co Wexford) Millbanks (talk) 22:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

There is no "but", about his passport status, or the characterization of his birth as "British". Setting the Irish question aside a moment, it is of note that Argentine law specifically does not confer Argentine citizenship on the children of foreign diplomats. Thus, he has always held a British passport, because he was born British under both law, paternity, and circumstance. The contention regarding his mother's 'Irish ancestry' seems to be colored by modern misunderstandings though. His mother, Maeve Emily de Burgh (from whom he takes his professional name) was daughter of Sir Eric de Burgh and Mary Fanshawe. Mary herself was the the daughter of Lt.-Gen. Sir Edward Arthur Fanshawe, also a British Army officer. Most of Chris de Burgh's military ancestors in the maternal were invested as Knights of the Order of the Bath, and not the Order of St Patrick. Sir Eric de Burgh's mother was Emily Anne Fock. The Focks are a Swedish baronial family, putatively the Barons De Robeck. Emily was daughter of Major John Henry Edward Fock, 4th Baron de Robeck. Johan Henrik Fock (2nd Baron de Robeck) is the first 'Englishman' of this line, having relocated to England and became a naturalized British citizen in 1789 after service in the American War of Independence. Most of Chris de Burgh's recent ancestors in the maternal were Anglo-Irish families in almost all directions. However, there is a long Irish line in Chris de Burgh's maternal ancestry though, but with generation after generation of Anglo-Irish nobility married into it. This line leads back to the Jacobite conflict between the House of Orange and James II, and into antiquity via the Rt. Rev. Ulysses Burgh. It is germane that Ulysses, along with his sons Richard, William, and Thomas, were Protestant clergymen, that they fled to England in 1689 ahead of the Catholic revolt in support of James II, and served in William of Orange's army at the Seige of Limerick in 1690. William rewarded de Burgh with the Protestant See of Ardagh in 1692. The ancestral Irish family name is in fact plain "Bourke", having changed style to "de Burgh" by Royal license only in 1848 So, to (mis?)quote Shakespeare, "as clear as is the summer sun ...", all those, on both sides, appear to be correct: Chris de Burgh's mother is indeed Irish to the bone, but, his family ancestry shows that it is the kind of "Irish" which was very much "British" in hearts, choices, deeds, loyalties, service and citizenship. None of which, of course, speaks to the loyalties, current views, or preferences of the extant artist, Mr Chris de Burgh, himself. Generally, for any detailed discourse on Chris de Burgh's maternal roots, I'd refer the readers to Burke's Irish Family Records printed by Burkes Peerage Ltd, of London, in 1976, where Chris de Burgh's maternal family and its many roots and Anglo-Irish marriages, is very well documented. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.1.232 (talk) 05:08, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Healer
Why is there no information about de Burgh's claims that he can heal people? They were pretty remarkable, and earned him a bit of revulsion in the public eye, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.7.26 (talk • contribs)

Affair
Why is there no mention of de Burgh's extra-marital affair with the babysitter/nanny? This young girl was the subject of Blonde Hair Blue Jeans and it was a big scandal, at least in Ireland, in the early 1990s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gogs126 (talk • contribs)

I added a reference to it a few years ago, but someone else (probably an upset fan) removed it citing it as "unnecessary". 213.132.48.105 (talk) 12:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

"Rocker" claim
I'm sure that de Burgh described himself as a rocker in a Record Collector interview, saying something along the lines of: "Most people think I just stand there and croon away in a tuxedo". I've got the issue somewhere so I'll try and dig it out to get the exact quote. 217.155.20.163 (talk) 01:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Tags
What's with the merge and philosophy tags? Is that vandalism or a mistake? I'm taking them out. 70.226.89.96 (talk) 18:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Edel Records reference correct?
I didn't see any reference to Chris de Burgh on the main Edel Records site although they did mention Chris Rea. Is the reference to them accurate? RichardJFoster (talk) 20:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

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I'm assuming that "The Film "The Omen" was loosely based on De Burgh's Childhood" is a joke, so i've removed it. Steekygeek (talk) 01:34, 25 January 2009 (UTC) steekygeek

Sales And Certifications ?
any one has any idea about sales and certifications of his albums ?? please write with refference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Upol007 (talk • contribs) 04:57, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Burke
Isn't the name de Burgh a restrospective spelling of the anglicized Irish surname Burke? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.97.85 (talk) 16:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

No, de Burgh is French. :)AleXd (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Originally yes - about 800 years ago, like many other names that arrived in Ireland at that time - originating in what is modern day northern France. They are now accepted as being totally Irish EG - Cantwell, Fitzgerald, Dalton, Cusack etc. All of which have been Anglicized over the intervening centuries to their modern spelling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.97.85 (talk) 16:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

"Flying" ?
The article states: His début, Far Beyond These Castle Walls, was a folk-tinged stab at fantasy in the tradition of the Moody Blues that failed to chart upon its release in February 1975. That July, he released a single from the album called "Flying".

However, it appears there is no song called "Flying" on Far Beyond These Castle Walls. How should this be fixed? GoingBatty (talk) 01:40, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I've removed the words "from the album". Most of that section seems to have been copied from the Allmusic biography, which makes the same mistakes. Graham 87 12:02, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for making that update. How about the disambiguation needed for the "Flying" link?  Is this a cover, or an original song?  GoingBatty (talk) 18:09, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's an original song, but I don't actually know. Graham 87 05:54, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The problem has been fixed. Graham 87 03:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Nationality
I've never heard something so ridiculous in my life, Wikipedia stating that Chris de Burgh is British! He may hold a British passport, but is Irish, and there is no dispute over that. Therefore, de Burgh should be classed as Irish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paddy More (talk • contribs) 20:01, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

How is he automatically Irish mate? He's born in Argentina to a British father and Irish mother. I'd say he's as British as he is Irish! And the British are welcome to him! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.97.85 (talk) 16:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)   Presumably you are English or Australian? The Irish don't call people "mate". Millbanks (talk) 22:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Chris de Burgh or anything like it, and I'd never say he was 100% Irish, because he isn't. But, the thing is if you were to ask anyone (even in Britain) what nationality he was, they'd definetly say Irish and so would he. More than likely, he'd recognise his English and Argentinian roots, but Ireland is his home.--MaxPride (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC) What a foolish quarrel.Who cares if Chris is British or Irish or both? He is agood musician,and his music and his works makes his famous,not nationality.

Regardless of a feeling for what nationality he is, the *facts* are that he was born in Argentina and has a British passport. Admins, unless there is a better citation than HIS OWN OFFICIAL WEBSITE, showing that he is indeed "Irish", please lock the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.254.35.75 (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Where, officially, unambiguously, does it say he's Irish? To hell with it, let's just say Jim Kerr, Patsy Kensit, Damon Hill, David Coulthard, Lisa Stansfield, Joe Elliott and Rick Savage are Irish too. Sure, I'm half Swiss, half Kazakh.

He's British, or, if you prefer, English, on his father's side and Irish on his mother's (she lives in Co Wexford). His daughter is Miss Ireland as well as Miss World. He lives in Ireland. He holds an Irish university degree. He is a member of the Church of Ireland. As for his passport, who knows? Can we have some evidence please? As for the person who used the word "mate", well perhaps your problem is that with his patrician, educated and Protestant background, Chris de Burgh is hardly stage Irish. But then what about Peter O'Toole, who the Oirish brigade are desperately trying to claim? Millbanks (talk) 18:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

"His daughter is Miss Ireland....He lives in Ireland..He holds an Irish University degree...he is a member of the Church of Ireland" I'll have to contact the The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to see if any of those are on the list of what entitles one to Irish citizenship? Somehow I doubt any of them are, don't you? Interesting with all the above qualities you list that make him Irish - he opted to be a British citizen according to his own website??

'Presumably you are English or Australian? The Irish don't call people "mate"' what a sweeping generalisation you pompous arse!! That word has really rattled your cage hasn't it seeing as you've commented on it twice! They may not use it in circles you move in but I'm Irish born and bred and I use it and have regularly heard it used in Irish circles! Also in mentioning his "...patrician, educated and Protestant background" you seem to be inferring that Irish Catholics are an uneducated lower order to which Chris and his ilk have some natural superiority! You utter snob! I think you do protest too much fella! And you know where Chris's Ma lives! It couldn't be that you're the man himself trying to bump up your paltry Irish credentials??? Or worse still have such appalling musical taste as to be Chris's No.1 fan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.97.85 (talk) 16:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Do such "paltry credentials apply to Peter O'Toole, or is he Oirish enough for you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.177.224.197 (talk) 21:39, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I think you've rather confirmed my point. Chris de Burgh doesn't meet the stereotype. What I'm saying is not that Roman Catholics are inferior, which they assuredly are not, but that various people (seemingly including yourself) are not very keen on the "Trinity" sort of Irishman that de Burgh represents: as you have demonstrated. But if you contact the Ministry of Justice etc they will confirm that the fact that since Mr de Burgh has an Irish mother and has lived in Ireland for many years, he is automatically eligible for Irish citizenship. Ausseagull (talk) 09:03, 26 December 2009 (UTC)


 * PS i) Chris's mother lives in Co Wexford, and is well known there. ii) I am not Chris de Burgh and have never met him. Ausseagull (talk) 09:07, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

To the person who keeps on changing his nationality, the most reliable source we have is his own official website. The text must stick to its sources, so unless you can find a more reliable source, I will continue to revert you. I don't know much about Chris de Burgh; I only stumbled upon his article in an utterly decrepit state after hearing one of his songs on the radio. Graham 87 00:45, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That has been resolved now.Sheodred (talk) 19:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Let him be "British". The Irish people have survived Cromwell, genocidal "famine" and the Black and Tans. They'll survive Chris de Burgh calling himself "British". He was never one of us in the sense of giving of his time and name to benefit the community in charity events and the like. Probably just here for tax reasons. 86.44.65.177 (talk) 22:15, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * "Probably just here for tax reasons"! Come off it! People don't move to Ireland for tax reasons. No, he's in Ireland because that's where he stayed after completing his university career there. Not many of the Oirish brigade did a Uni degree in Ireland (or anywhere else for that matter), nor even live in Ireland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.220.156 (talk) 17:48, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Come on. He has an Irish mother and has lived in Ireland for many years. As has been mentioned above, he's every bit as Irish as Peter O'Toole, and unlike O'Toole he actually is an Irish resident and is Irish educated. He has every right to become an Irish citizen and for all I know he has. The Irish authorities do not base citizenship on hackneyed stereotypes. And just in case you're wondering, I am "one of us". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.177.224.197 (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Every other language has him lasted as Irish, it is only listed as Brirish here because most of the politcally motivated editors here are from Britain, end of story, case closed..He is Irish, like it or lump it.Sheodred (talk) 14:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Decisions on Wikipedia are based on reliable sources, not what other language Wikipedias may or may not do. See the source that I noted in the above section. Graham 87 03:59, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the debate above as to his nationality, the link to his website in the section on his ancestry, in which he states he has always held a British passport, is no longer available. The majority of articles describe him as Irish. Are there any reliable sources available which can determine whether he is an Irishman of English descent (my view at the moment), a British expat in Ireland, or even possessing dual citizenship? At least we're all agreed he's not Argentine. Northern Hills (talk) 12:17, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For dead links, there's always the Wayback Machine ... Graham 87 14:42, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

RfC on nationality
There is a continuing edit war whether or not to indicate that Chris de Burgh holds Irish nationality. This needs sufficient referencing (per WP:RS/WP:BLP) which does not seem to have been provided to date, rather emotional and apparently unverifiable arguments such as this. Argentine birth and at least British nationality don't seem to be in dispute, at least per primary source. Dl2000 (talk) 05:11, 29 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, is this edit a good compromise? In particular see the attached HTML comment. Graham 87 11:10, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It's instructive, but I am concerned about the eventual complaint of instruction creep, citing that some folk can't even drive the posted speed limit; they aren't going to slow down to read long instructions (well, there are other reasons, but mine is the funniest).
 * As an aside, I concur that any sourcing as to de Burgh's assumed Irish nationality be reliable. I for one thought the feller was a Scot (or a Romulan). Of course, I cannot cite that. ;) - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:07, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

His official web site FAQ says: 'Q. What Nationality is Chris? A. Well, he was born in Argentina but he holds British Nationality'. No mention of his being Irish. Martin Hogbin (talk) 00:06, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

There's an interesting comparison with the discussion on Peter O'Toole. The Oirish brigade want to claim him and Shane MacGowan but not Chris de Burgh. I wonder why not? Poshseagull (talk) 08:16, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I take considerable issue with the 'summary' characterization that De Burgh "is an Argentine-born ..." anything. The tone and construction is patently intended to imply that he is Argentine, and not British. However, under Argentine Nationality Law, the children of diplomats do not acquire Argentine citizenship, and are thus not "Argentine", at birth. So De Burgh is both de facto and de jure, not "Argentine born" any more than the child of a British citizen born on or around a military base on the island of Cypress could be described as either "Cypriot-born", "Greek-born", or "Turk-born". Irrespective of any subsequent sections' details, I'm forced to draw only one conclusion from the fact that someone keeps insisting on editing this back to the current subtle crafting: The editor has anti-British, perhaps antagonistically politically pro-Argentine, sentiments, and is just seeking to antagonize British readers. Given that Argentine law and the artist are both in agreement that at no time was he in any way "Argentine", this deliberately provocative editing seems inappropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory for any wiki page and should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.1.232 (talk) 02:24, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair point; I've put back the HTML comment, however. Graham 87 02:43, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Distinguished Hiberno-Norman family
The "Early life" section says that he was "descended from a distinguished Hiberno-Norman family." Presumably this refers to the twelfth-century de Burghs. But anybody named Burke is descended from the same family, and there are something like 20,000 of them in Ireland. Unless there is a family tree that traces his ancestry back directly to the Hiberno-Norman de Burghs, this should be removed. Scolaire (talk) 12:28, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. I've gone ahead and removed the offendingtext; it sounds like puffery to me. Graham 87 08:51, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I found that entire paragraph, including the "distinguished Hiberno-Norman family" bit, on the web here. It's not clear whether it was copied from the web page or the web page copied it from here. Quite likely it's the latter, but to be on the safe side I've paraphrased it, and moved some of the info to a more appropriate part of the section. Scolaire (talk) 09:57, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I'd refer the reader to the detailed Nationality section above, where I have provided links and references which clarify the Irish nature of Chris de Burgh's maternal line, who strongly identified themselves as "British" at every opportunity. That includes seeking Royal License from the English Crown to change the style of their name to the Norman-French usage "de ..." in 1848, and these maternal ancestors having been both Protestant clergy and fighting for William of Orange at Limerick in 1790. A detailed examination of the de Burgh family tree, as it is well documented by Burke's Peerage, shows that a "Hiberno-Norman" description would be a very reasonable claim for this family to make. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.1.232 (talk) 05:38, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

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