Talk:Concerned Alumni of Princeton

Initial Discussion
The existence of the organization gained prominence during the nomination process of fomer member Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court of the United States...

Interesting...this was posted before the nomination hearings began...

Response: CAP did indeed gain notoriety during the 'nomination' process. The 'confirmation' hearings began the second week of January. ColinKennedy 15:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Considering the tone and direction of the CAP debate in Alito's hearings it is important to determine if the following statement is fact:

"Its main purpose was to protest Princeton's position prohibiting recruitment by the ROTC."

Where did this come from? Was this stated in a CAP charter or mission statement? If so, can a link be provided? If this is indeed true, it fits more with Alito's claim that he joined because of its stance on ROTC. If not fact, this raises questions regarding how he could have been unaware of CAPs other major platforms.

-- If the main puprose of CAP was to oppose the prohibition on ROTC recruitment, it certainly lingered on a long time after its purpose was fulfilled, because the ROTC recruitment ban was lifted in September of the same year CAP was reportedly founded (1972):

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2001/01/17/history/ Elakazal 19:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC) The above article only refers to Army ROTC. The Status of Navy and Air Force (was Air Force ROTC around in 1972?)ROTC in 1972 is not clear.

The university lifted the ROTC recruitment ban in 1972, however only the Army returned, because the AF and Navy ROTC rejected a new University decision to no longer grant military instructors full status as professors. A listing of the groups priorities in 1976 makes no mention of ROTC, and at least members who were in the organization in 1972 have no recollection of the ROTC being a priority.

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/01/13/news/14236.shtml Elakazal 23:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Mike Malloy claims that Alito continued to reference CAP on his resume for several years, but now he says he cannot remember having been a member. Can anybody cite any proof that he had CAP on his resume? User:Zoe|(talk) 22:28, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * His 1985 resume. CAP is mentioned at the top of p.16. Jpers36 22:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting that he used it to explain his political philosophy but now can't remember that he was a member. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:19, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

My removals
Considerable efforts have been made to reduce exposure of Alito's association with this organization during the process of the hearings, including the exclusion of the sole witness who is critical of this organization, prior to the start of the hearings.


 * This is unsourced accusation, prefaced with wiggle words.

This is just a subjective view of an author, who is trying to be apologetic for Judge Alito and Princeton University.


 * POV.

''The sad truth is: Yale, Harvard and Princeton Universities are citadels of preserving status quo Power of the WASP Establishment. Leopard never changes his spots___ only a Chameleon. All of those Universities for centuries got racial admission policies of exclusion of so called "minorities": Blacks, Jews, and "Latinos" to which they considered not just "Hispanics", but all people from Europe and North America who belonging to the Catholic Church. Ironically, Judge Alito (a person of Italian-Catholic decent like fascist Italian Dictator Benito Mussolini before him) shared the racist views of their Arian competitors Anglo-Saxons, including Adolph Hitler's Nazis.''


 * Cliche, POV and unsourced accusations, including comparison to Mussolini/Hitler.

To know more about it, you have to read the following book: "The Chosen: The hidden history of admission and exclusion at Harvard, Yale and Princeton", written by Jerome Karabel publisher Houghton Mifflin Company, 2005 ISBN-10: 0-618-57458-1


 * Mention of reference without explanation of its bearing on the article.

If Judge Alito don't remember his CAP membership, his resume for promotion at President Reagan's Administration, but do remember cases he handled back than, than his memory is very selective and he is lying under oath during his hearing and he is a felon and have to be convicted for it and disbarred.


 * False accusation: Alito remembers his resume, admits to its mention on his resume and, from that, the fact of his membership. His claim is, "Apart from that document, I have no recollection of being a member, of attending meetings, or otherwise participating in the activities of the group. The group has no current officers from whom more information may be obtained."

''CAP never provided membership to those, who wasn't agree with their fraternity's statute and in their membership dues was included a fee for a subscription of their magazine "Prospectives". Nobody, but totally insane will believe, that judge Alito continued to receive it, but never read it.''


 * CAP was not a fraternity. Its magazine was Prospect, not Prospectives.  The magazine probably deserves mention in the article, but whether Alito received or read the magazine is at this point mere speculation.

If he honestly don't remember this at all, than he has a begining of Alzheimer's disease like his former boss President Ronald Reagan (to whom his sent his proud of membership in CAP resume), and have to be disbarred instead of a promotion to the Supreme Court.


 * Unqualified medical diagnosis, AFAIK there is no evidence Alito either sent his resume to Reagan or reported directly to him, and this has no bearing on CAP.

Forgot to log in
I was 207.72.4.103 Tlogmer 17:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

More NPOV source for CAP quotes?
It would be nice to be able to refer to a less partisan source than People for the American Way for the incriminating quotes from CAP. Jpers36 17:52, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I've tracked down an added a New York Times article on the group from the 1970s. Tlogmer 19:27, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Good source, and I've fixed some transcription errors, but the quotations might be removed from the article if another editor reads and considers it copyvio. Jpers36 20:04, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Napolitano
Harding Jones made it clear that Andy Napolitano was an early member, if not a founding member, and he also made it clear that they both worked hard to help Alito's confirmation. It is beyond me that two openly gay [unsourced claims removed by Jpers36 per WP:BLP ] and educated men would support such conservative issues and candidates! It was not beyond Harding to purge the files of past members to help the cause, but the files were probably a nightmare to begin with! Harding came from a WASPY background, so it was likely just instilled in him, but Alito and Napolitano... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.29.164 (talk) 22:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Once again, you have yet to substantiate your claims with a verifiable source. I'm removing the most inciting of your claims, but the correct response re WP:BLP may actually be to remove your talk posts altogether.  Jpers36 (talk) 14:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Bias
though it supported quotas guaranteeing spots for male students, and for the children of alumni

Blah.

Admitting women
"and opposed the admission of women to the university. [2]"

If you look at the source, it doesn't offer any evidence to back up this claim. It just states in the article that the group was founded to oppose the admission of women... which disagrees with what this article states.

Thoughts?

71.100.36.139 02:11, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The Resume
Since Alioto's confirmation seems to be a large concern in this article, shouldn't there at least be a mention of the fact that he listed membership in CAP on a resume?--Reverend Distopia 20:47, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The article talks about that in the second paragraph. It even links to a PDF of the job application in question. --Howrealisreal 20:51, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Alioto's Membership Edits
"The existence of the organization attracted wide notice in January 2006 during the nomination of former CAP member Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court of the United States,"

This seems to directly contradict the section below which says nothing about Alioto mentioning his membership in the resume, and seems to suggest that he was not a member. Since we have not established one way or the other whether or not he was a member, we must not state that he was. I changed it to say that he may have been a member.--Reverend Distopia 20:56, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * What are you talking about? The rest of that statement (which you left out) states: "...as Alito included his membership in the organization on a job application to work in the Reagan administration in 1985 ." Please, look at the source yourself. Also, I think you are confused because Alito, during questioning, did not deny that he was a member of CAP. This is taken from the Samuel Alito article: "Apart from Alito's written 1985 statement of membership of CAP on a job application, which Alito says was truthful, there is no other evidence of Alito's involvement with or contributions in the group." You can debate that there is not much evidence yet to Alito's contribution to the mission and values of CAP, but you cannot say that he wasn't a member. I will alter the article to refelct this. --Howrealisreal 21:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Concerned Alumni of Princeton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060530113220/http://www.princeton.edu:80/~puband/media/1974.html to http://www.princeton.edu/~puband/media/1974.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20040903151415/http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu:80/apr1973/v30-1-criticscorner1.htm to http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/apr1973/v30-1-criticscorner1.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 21:54, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Concerned Alumni of Princeton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060217213830/http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf to http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060217213830/http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf to http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060217213830/http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf to http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060222034606/http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=20029 to http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=20029
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060217213830/http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf to http://www.isthatlegal.org/images/cap1.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060905161029/http://www.humanevents.com/alitoblog.php to http://www.humanevents.com/alitoblog.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:55, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Concerned Alumni of Princeton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060110145740/http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/11/18/news/13876.shtml to http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/11/18/news/13876.shtml
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051202101226/http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/11/22/opinion/13901.shtml to http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/11/22/opinion/13901.shtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:00, 16 January 2018 (UTC)