Talk:Constantine II of Greece/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Llewee (talk · contribs) 19:05, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Part one
Hi, this is broadly a good quality detailed article but their are frequent problems with awkward or confusing wording. I have suggested some changes below which cover the first part of the article down to the end of the "Reign" section. I will make suggestions for the rest of the article once these issues are dealt with. Please use the ✅ template or strikethrough to indicate that a problem has been dealt with and add any comments/questions after the points. For an example of a review with a similar structure, see Talk:Murder of Arthur Labinjo-Hughes/GA1.--Llewee (talk) 16:53, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Early years & Crown prince

 * "Constantine's birth took place during the beginning of World War II." - This is awkward wording, change "beginning" to "first year" or "early stages". ✅
 * "As King George VI of the United Kingdom opposed the presence of Princess Frederika and her children in Britain," - was their any reason for this? If so give a brief explanation. ✅
 * "while the rest of the family could seek refuge in then-Union of South Africa." - add "the" before "then-Union" ✅
 * "Supervised by an army of British governesses and tutors," - overly flowery wording, change "an army of" to "various" ✅
 * "Constantine continued to be educated with his sisters and other companions from Athens' better bourgeoisie in the villa at Psychiko." - Change "better bourgeoisie" to something clearer such as "wealthier population" or "upper classes". ✅
 * "He attended school there as a boarder in the 1950s," include specific years ✅

Reign

 * "However, as the king's condition worsened, the crown prince went to Tinos to get an icon considered miraculous by the Greek Orthodox Church. However, on 6 March 1964, Paul died and the 23-year-old Constantine succeeded him as King of the Hellenes." - Take out both instances of "however" here. Neither are necessary and the second doesn't make sense. ✅
 * "It was hoped[by whom?] that the new young king and the new prime minister would be able to overcome past dissensions." - This needs to be clarified ✅
 * "Constantine requested that those implicated in the ASPIDA scandal, in which several officers, captains and majors tried to thwart and pre-empt attempts by the extreme right-wing military to seize power, being referred to a military tribunal." - This text is confusing, a clearer version might be "Constantine requested that those implicated in the ASPIDA scandal, in which several military officials tried to prevent attempts by the extreme right-wing military to seize power, be referred to a military tribunal." ✅
 * "and was formed by defectors disaffected with the Papandreous (the 'Apostates')" - change "and" to "which" ✅
 * "His assassination became a symbol of the protests and his funeral was large-scaled." - "assassination" is an odd word to use in this context change to "death" or "killing", also change "large-scaled" to "widely attended" ✅
 * "However, he finally ordered Ilias Tsirimokos to form a government on 18 August but he did not receive the vote of confidence of the parliament on a vote on 28 August either." "however" is superfluous here, also take out finally as this isn't last person asked to form a government ✅
 * "Historians have had suspicions of Constantine and his mother's interest in a coup d'état since at least mid-1965." - a clearer way to word this would be "Historians have suspected that Constantine and his mother were interested in a coup d'état from at the latest mid-1965." ✅
 * "the group was aware that any operation in this direction with the US must have the permission of the king." - put "cooperation of" before "US" ✅
 * "The coup leaders met Constantine at his residence in Tatoi at about 7 a.m, which was surrounded by tanks to prevent resistance and when the coup seemed to have succeeded bloodless." - take out "when" and change "bloodless" to "bloodlessly" ✅
 * "was generally reviled among the public for his shadowy role in the palace intrigues of the previous years." - take out "shadowy" ✅
 * "The king and his entourage were beginning to glimpse the fall of the monarchy." - change this to something more literal e.g "were beginning to worry that the future of the monarchy was endangered" ✅
 * "The king communicated with Konstantinos Karamanlis, exiled in Paris and aware of the plot, so that he would return to assume the post of prime minister if this movement was successful, but he refused." - change "so that he would" to "and attempted to persuade him" ✅
 * "It would follow the tanking of Tempe and the defence of Lamia by the army in Larissa" - clarify ✅ (modified content)
 * "They attempted a first movement for the military parade scheduled for 28 October, " - "They intended to initiate their plan on the day of a military parade scheduled for 28 October," ✅
 * "On the morning of 13 December 1967," - presumably this was the day the countercoup was rescheduled to which needs to be explicitly stated ✅
 * "failed the countercoup" - make this clearer (e.g led to the countercoup's failure) ✅
 * ", then and on the same day," - take out "then and" ✅
 * "who was sworn in in Athens by Ieronymos." - only one "in" is needed (Rearranged sentencing as technically two are needed for "sworn in" and "in Athens"
 * "Constantine, the royal family and Prime Minister Konstantinos Kollias took off in torrential rain from Kavala for exile in Rome, where they arrived at 4 pm on 14 December and remained in exile there through the rest of military rule, although he technically continued as king until 1 June 1973." split into separate sentence from "remained in exile" (i.e. "He remained in exile...") ✅
 * "the conversion to a presidential and parliamentary democracy and assumed the interim presidency of the Republic." - split this section into its own sentence and clarify (e.g "He converted the country into a..."), also, change the word "democracy" for "republic" or "state" as it wasn't a democracy at that point ✅

Part two
Hi and, thank you for dealing with the issues I pointed out in the previous section. Here is a series of points covering the second half of the article--Llewee (talk) 15:36, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Restoration of democracy and the referendum

 * "The Turkish invasion of Cyprus had also led to the downfall of the military regime," take out "had also" ✅
 * "Constantine confidently awaited an invitation to return." change "confidently awaited" to "expected" ✅
 * "Following the accession of a civilian government in November 1974" change "accession" to "appointment" ✅
 * "Karamanlis made no attempt to restore the democratic constitution of 1952." a clearer way to word this would be "Karamanlis made no attempt to encourage a vote in favour of restoring the monarch." ✅
 * "undermine any chance to restore the monarchy" a clearer way to word this would be "reduce the possibility of a vote in favour of restoration" ✅
 * "Constantine, speaking from London, freely admitted his past mistakes." change "freely admitted his past mistakes." to "said he had made mistakes in the past." ✅
 * "He claimed to have sound democratic intentions in the future" change to "He said he would always be supportive of democracy in future" ✅

Life in exile after 1974

 * "He did not return until February 1981," change to "He returned briefly for the first time in February 1981," ✅
 * "His gesture of kissing the ground upon arrival in Greece provoked the government's reaction to limit only a few hours in the country." ✅
 * change "provoked the government's reaction to limit only a few hours in the country." to "led to the government only allowing him to remain in the for a few hours" ✅
 * clarify why this was I have said that it "provoked" the government, but it needs expanding as to why. ✅
 * "extending to the assassination of Karamanlis and followed by a referendum on the monarchy." change "extending to" to "including" or "beginning with" ✅
 * "According to Vasileiadis, Arnaoutis insisted that Constantine had contacted the Shah of Iran in order to rein in a possible Turkish military action during the coup." change "insisted" to "said" and "rein in" to "prevent" ✅
 * "As late as October 1976, the Greek prime minister was informed by the British ambassador that Constantine, while not the driving force behind the conspiracy, was very much aware of it and did nothing to discourage it." is their a reason why "As late as" is included here? ✅ No reason, I have just removed it.
 * "Nevertheless, as late as October 1978, Constantine and Arnaoutis were recorded by Greek agents to have sought contacts with military and political leaders, trying to win them over to the cause of a royal restoration." again "as late as" doesn't seem necessary here, also change "contacts" to "contact" ✅
 * "Two years later, Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou abrogated that agreement and denied the properties received from Constantine, who cancelled the Greek citizenship of both himself and the royal family." change "denied" to "refused to return" and "received" ✅

Later life

 * "According to a nationwide 2007 survey of 2,040 households conducted on behalf of the newspaper To Vima," make clear that this is in Greece ✅
 * "His death was leaked by Associated Press, but then announced by his private office." This bit needs to be sourced. ✅

Discussion
Nominator comment Much appreciated,. I'll work on it these days. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:07, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Therealscorp1an We have homework! If you want and you can collaborate, welcome. Also during these days I will start to correct it. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:07, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep, we sure do! Alsoriano97, would you like to split it in half? I do up to the "However, he finally ordered Ilias Tsirimokos to form a government on 18 August but he did not receive the vote of confidence of the parliament on a vote on 28 August either" point and you do the rest down? - Therealscorp1an (talk) 01:58, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I have done the first half, I may as well leave do the rest. The ones that I leave out I haven't been able to obtain any information on them. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 02:26, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. I have also bolded ones that still need to be completed (I can't find information on them). - Therealscorp1an (talk) 02:41, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * that's so great! Thanks for your excellent work. I'll try to fix the remaining issues. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:10, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

2nd Nominator comment Everything corrected. About the opposition of King George of the United Kingdom to the presence in his country of Princess Frederica, I have not found any source that explains exactly the reasons, but she did have Nazi sympathies so it can be understood that this was the reason. If you think it isn't enough, I think the right thing to do would be to remove that content. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:06, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, can you find any sources about her having Nazi sympathies?--Llewee (talk) 14:58, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. For instance, the Encyclopedia Britannica. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:30, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, change "George VI of the United Kingdom opposed the presence of Princess Frederika and her children in Britain for her supposed Nazi sympathies," to "George VI of the United Kingdom opposed the presence of Princess Frederika who was suspected of having Nazi sympathies and her children in Britain," as we don't have the sources to prove a direct link.--Llewee (talk) 23:28, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 23:42, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks Llewee and Therealscorp1an!! _-_Alsor (talk) 10:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Stop! I had just finished making all of the edits, haha, I was just about to publish them. Do you want to continue or want me to do it? - Therealscorp1an (talk) 23:04, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and just made the rest of the changes. There is just one that I've left, mind if you do it? I'm not really sure how to fix it. 👍 - Therealscorp1an (talk) 23:08, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Therealscorp1an stopped! Thanks again for the work you do. I was just looking for information on that. The anti-royalists saw the gesture as a provocation, but so far I haven't found information about the Greek government's opinion. I think it could be justified on the grounds that, faced with a funeral that already raised a lot of controversy, the gesture was going to muddle the issue even more. I don't know... _-_Alsor (talk) 23:18, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it does seem like a bit of an "iffy" topic. Sorry if me "Stop!" command seemed a bit rude before, I didn't mean for it to... - Therealscorp1an (talk) 23:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Therealscorp1an @Llewee It didn't sound rude at all, don't worry! I've changed the content a bit, let's see if it's clear now. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:57, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

3rd nominator comment How do you guys feel about the ancestry box being deleted from the page? I ask this as a lot of articles are having them removed. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 22:53, 5 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Frankly, I don't think it has ever been surplus to requirements. It gives a better idea of the ancestry not only of the monarch/member of the royal house, but of the royal house itself in particular. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:24, 6 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm aware that their have been discussions about whether they should be included on other pages. Though I don't know much about what the arguments for or against. I can understand that it's not hugely necessary but imagine some readers might find it useful given the importance of ancestry in these people's lives--Llewee (talk) 15:34, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

4th comment hello, what's the next step? Thanks! _-_Alsor (talk) 14:24, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I haven't been editing much over the last few days because I had a deadline for today. I'm going out tonight but should be able to do final checks on the article tomorrow.--Llewee (talk) 16:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries. There is no rush. Only when you can. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:31, 14 March 2023 (UTC)