Talk:DC Extended Universe/Archive 9

Naming superheroes
Hello DCEU fans and frenemies!

It appears that the article for the DCEU Superman, which is currently titled Clark Kent (DC Extended Universe), will likely be renamed Superman (DC Extended Universe) per popular demand at Talk:Clark Kent (DC Extended Universe). The Superman page name currently exists as a redirect.

While there are valid reasons for either page name, such as "the Marvel Cinematic Universe does it this way!" or "Hey, see Superman (1978 film series character), Blade (New Line Blade franchise character) or Homelander", looks like the best case to go off on is the consensus among editors.

I wanted to bring up the naming system to maintain consistency. Naming each of the DCEU's characters by their superhero identities will probably make them more identifiable to the general user, but I also understand that some characters are more commonly referred to by their secret identities in the films. Wanted to bring it up here, as each character may also be a case-by-case situation.

Unless specified, each one of these characters have live pages in the mainspace and their superhero identities exist as redirects.

Summoning, , , and  for some second opinions. Feel free to bring anyone else here for discussion.

Thanks --WuTang94 (talk) 16:53, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm just going to go on a limb and say I'm kind of against all these pages existing in the first place. They really don't align with Manual of Style/Writing about fiction—they mostly just exist to regurgitate plot information that can be found in the individual film articles, and there's really nothing in them that can't be covered in those articles. We already have pages for the comic characters, so I think the film articles should be reserved for discussing the differences between the comic characters in the Cast/Development sections. There's no need for crufty separate articles. JOE BRO  64  17:01, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Different franchises, but I will note that most MCU editors agreed during the Great Crackdown on Fancruft last year that character articles are beneficial as long as they contain sufficient real-world sourcing. as I understand you are the principal architect of many of these articles, I would recommend devising an "appearance rule" similar to what we have at WP:MCUCHARACTERS in order to gauge whether a character is notable to have their own article. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I'm also not sure if a DCEU WikiProject exists on Wikipedia yet, but that would also be a good thing to start at some point, especially if the films pick up speed. I'm also not an admin yet on Wikipedia so I don't know --WuTang94 (talk) 19:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The scale of the DCEU has not reached the point where a WikiProject task force is necessitated, I would say wait a few more years. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:47, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * A bit of a tangent from the main discussion, but my stance is that if distinct interpretations of characters are notable and unique enough, they should have their own articles instead of being lumped with the main versions of the character. It would be easier to read and navigate for most people, and no one wants to read an article that is too long. Also, if an iteration of a character appears in multiple works or films, the character articles would be a cleaner place to put information on their character development if well sourced, which, like InfiniteNexus, I don't see as fan cruft unless placing unsourced and overly detailed plot there. For example, see the Disney Princess articles and their folk tale versions (example: Snow White (Disney character) and Snow White) or Joker (character) and Joker (The Dark Knight). --WuTang94 (talk) 19:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Cool. We should probably rename the characters of the Arrowverse to their superhero/supervillain names, you know, for the same reasons stated above. Leader Vladimir (talk) 18:09, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * In regards to the Arrowverse articles, a totally separate discussion will have to be held. Every franchise is different. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Going back to my realism comment on the Clark Kent talk page, I am most concerned with the Flash and Cyborg pages. As WuTang94 noted, they have never been actually called "Flash" or "Cyborg" in the films, so it may be inaccurate to label them as such. I will also note that I don't see a clear consensus on the Clark Kent page, and please remember WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * They were labelled "The Flash" in Crisis on Infinite Earths and Peacemaker, and presumably will be again in The Flash. Poindextero (talk) 20:23, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Noted. The table has been updated.--WuTang94 (talk) 20:34, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Alright, my own stance on the naming system is to follow the MCU's system unless some characters are better off with their superhero/villain identities. Not just for consistency sake and realism, but also these reasons: --WuTang94 (talk) 20:34, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * If characters have films or TV shows named after their monikers, their alter egos are cleaner. See the notes on Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, and Peacemaker.
 * What if someone else takes up the mantle? See Steve Rogers (Marvel Cinematic Universe) and Sam Wilson (Marvel Cinematic Universe) who both serve as Captain America in the MCU. Here's a hypothetical back in the DCEU: what if Terry McGinniss eventually takes the Batman mantle from either Affleck's or Keaton's version, or dare I say it, what if a future Jon Kent takes over being Superman from his father, Clark?
 * I can only offer my opinion on a case-by-case basis. Sure, that may result in naming inconsistencies. One member of a group may be best known using their superhero name, the other have their superhero name mentioned only once or twice and mostly called by their real name. If two characters use the same moniker, use their real names (that's not the case with Affleck's and Keaton's Batmans, both are Bruce Wayne, Keaton is not from DCEU). Neocorelight (Talk) 23:08, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * We shouldn't worry about characters hypothetically taking up mantles, because that doesn't yet happen and is against WP:CRYSTAL. Neocorelight (Talk) 23:10, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. And if that scenario occurs we can simply have another page move request in the future. I'll create move requests for the rest of the DCEU Justice League members then. I don't think Mera or Harley Quinn should be moved. --WuTang94 (talk) 23:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you should only do that and/or when the Clark Kent page is moved, and you should probably combine all of the requests in one per WP:RMPM. That would make the process faster. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:57, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops, I jumped the gun on that. Is it too late to combine those five, maybe even six requests (if we include Clark Kent with all of them)? --WuTang94 (talk) 00:01, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You can just self-revert, no harm done. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:02, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Batgirl release date
Should the release date to Batgirl be changed ro TBA? I mean, it was not officially announced that the film was delayed, but sibce The Flash WAS delayed to 2023 and Batgirl will obviously have BIG Flash spoilers via the appearance of Michael Keaton's Batman, its kind of obvious it will be changed. BestDaysofMusic (talk) 23:05, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That would be original research. Even if it might seem obvious, we can't know for sure how these films are connected, and we should wait until a delay is confirmed. —El Millo (talk) 23:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Cyborg and Batman
I am taking to this talk page, as I have attempted to add some details to this page that repeatedly get reverted for no logical reason. I am referring to contributions to two projects listed in the cancelled section. This includes the details regarding James Gunn's statement that he filmed scenes including Cyborg and Batman in the "Justice League scene" of Peacemaker. When asked why he cut out the characters, he stated that he was asked to because of the studio's future plans for the characters. I have added this with the reliable direct source from James Gunn, only for the information to repeatedly be redacted from the article. Furthermore, I have restated what is identified earlier in the (Development section) that the new CEO of Warner Bros. Discovery has stated that they will revitalize the use of Superman in this franchise under the untitled Superman film listing. How is it that these two key statements of future developments of these two characters, keep getting reverted? They are both the first NEWS we have of either of these two characters in a very long time. While we wait for whatever the announcement is for them, what is the reason that these statements are viewed as A) anything but constructive, and/or B) unrelated to where I placed them?--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 02:45, 27 April 2022 (UTC)


 * They're getting removed because they have absolutely fucking nothing to do with the projects in question. Cyborg not being included in Peacemaker has absolutely nothing to do with Cyborg. Superman being revitalized has nothing to do with Man of Steel 2. JOE BRO  64  03:26, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Wonder Twins canceled
New sources like MovieWeb and CBR recently reported that the Wonder Twins film was canceled. Is it worth waiting for other reliable news websites to report on this before assuming it's been canceled? JDA 78 (talk) 16:38, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Too quick?
Why do we instantly add a DC film here even if there's no proof it will be part of the DCEU? Take Blackhawks for example: We added it once it was announced and it turned out the film won't be part of the DCEU. Shouldn't we better wait until there's a confirmation of a film's setting? BestDaysofMusic (talk) 20:37, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, projects should not be added unless it's explicitly stated to be apart of the DCEU, or is a direct sequel/spinoff to an established DCEU project (e.g. Wonder Woman -> Wonder Woman 1984 and The Suicide Squad -> Peacemaker). Unlike Marvel, DC has been allowing creatives to build standalone worlds, so we cannot automatically assume it'll be apart of the DCEU.
 * In the case of Blackhawk(s), the majority of editors were against its inclusion in this article based on the information we had. The discussions can be found here, here, here and here. Because of this, it wasn't included in the article for years until January 4, 2021, where it stayed until March 26, 2022.
 * I think this article just doesn't have enough experienced editors who care about it enough to prevent information like this from creeping in and sticking around. And looking it over now, there are a good number of in-development projects that should probably be removed until more is known about them. Pre  fall  22:27, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Timeline
Could we create a timeline similar to mcu I started below 92.236.253.249 (talk) 13:30, 12 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Most of it is unsourced and/or based on inaccurate descriptions. —El Millo (talk) 02:11, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Structure of the "Films" section
Hi. Just a proposal. I think that all the section under the released movies table should be erased (in other words, all the descriptions about the movies already released). If you want to know about a specific movie you could always click on it in the table and find out what you want to know. It's redundant. Also, in that way, the two tables (released movies and future movies) would be united and if you are browsing from the phone you don't have to scroll all the way down. It's too long and useless that part. But again. Just a proposal. I know that a lot of people have written on it and I respect that. It's always hard to delete/destroy something that you have spent time to create. Henjin Dono (talk) 00:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I would oppose removing the info entirely, but I noticed that the section has been tagged with a proposed split tag linking to this discussion. If a split is what you were looking for, I would not be opposed to that, given the sheer size of this article. (The prose size alone does not justify a split per WP:SIZERULE, but only because it doesn't take into account the many tables and bulleted lists.) The  section could probably be split to its own article as well, if needed. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:19, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Let’s just wait until more things Are announced before we deciding on splitting both articles. It’s safe to say that there’s more to come.
 * Then we’ll deal with the redundancies (as in other DC-related articles). MegaSmike46 (talk) 15:10, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I strongly support a split. It's long overdue. JOE BRO  64  02:00, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I oppose a split at this time as well. The studios have not-yet been extremely clear as to their 10-year plans, but I have always thought this Cancelled projects section is a bit over-sized.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 01:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't oppose the split, but it should be done with List of MCU films as a reference and likely should be developed for a not-too-long amount of time in draftspace before being moved to mainspace. —El Millo (talk) 02:20, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * There is already a draft for the DCEU films, at Draft:List of DC Extended Universe films, though I'm not sure if it's up-to-date. I don't think there's one for canceled projects, but I can create a quick mockup of that if needed. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like there's no concensus for the split, so I removed the split tag from the article. -- Mikeblas (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Third James Gunn project
This is actually a request rather than a question, but i think we should refrain ourselves from talking here about that third DC thing Gunn said he was working on in his Twitter account, at least for the time being. Not only because we don't know whether its a movie or a series, but because we don't know absolutely nothing about it. We don't know if its set in the DCEU, or even for what media it is. He could very well be making the jump to podcasts or comics througth this project. So, please, can we wait until we find out what this project is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BestDaysofMusic (talk • contribs) 12:29, 12 October, 2021 (UTC)
 * Though I don't think this was a bad idea^, Gunn has since clarified that he is working on another television series besides Peacemaker (and besides producing the Amanda Waller series). Furthermore, per official statement by The Hollywood Reporter the studio has met with him to make another movie. Lastly, he is now the co-CEO/co-Chairman of DC Studios.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:53, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The Batman?
Where does "The Batman" fit in to the released list? Seems the only mention is in the "Cancelled" section, but "The Batman" was released in March 2022. What reason is it not included? — al-Shimoni  (talk) 11:14, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The Batman is not connected to the DCEU. Pre  fall  11:22, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The Batman was made non-canonical to the DCEU sometime after Reeves decided to make it about a younger Batman, but it remains in the cancelled section because it was planned to be a DCEU entry for the vast majority of its development. Vader13289 (talk) 23:34, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 * As they stated^ The Batman was repurposed from what it was originally intended (with Ben Affleck attached), to be a separate universe. The one with Robert Pattinson doesn't belong on this page at all.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:50, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I

The DC film franchise presently lacks the clear chronology of Marvel films to create a definitive timeline. The example of two Justice Leagues stories is in and of itself a canonical conundrum. Definitively (talk) 06:28, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 26 October 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Criticalus (talk) 03:34, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

– Official name change per WBD. Criticalus (talk) 02:46, 26 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 20:34, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * DC Extended Universe → DC Universe
 * DC Universe → ?
 * Oppose  – The Batman and Joker plus their sequels are not part of the DCEU, thus this move does not make sense at all. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 03:38, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak support ComicBook.com and CBR (both low-caliber but still reliable sources) reported this, but I'm ambivalent on whether their interpretation of the WBD press release is 100% accurate. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:20, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * /Film and TheWrap have now reported on this as well. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Leaning oppose – In addition to the WP:COMMONNAME argument many have brought up, it just occurred to me that a page move would mean that we would have to replace every instance of "DCEU" on Wikipedia, which not only will be a daunting task but would also be difficult to reverse in the future. On top of that, there's the question of how to disambiguate all the DC Extended Universe characters, as just (DC Universe) wouldn't work and (DC Universe (media franchise)) wouldn't either. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:43, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment – If this renaming is accurate, a disambiguation will be needed, as DC Universe already exists in reference to the comics universe, plus many others listed at DC Universe (disambiguation). —El Millo (talk) 04:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Right, this would need to be titled at DC Universe (film franchise) if there is support for a move. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not just that though, with Peacemaker and James Gunn (who we now know is the new co-Kevin Feige of DC) developing three to four new television series alongside it getting a second season. Maybe DC Universe (live-action Warner Bros. franchise)? 89.19.88.197 (talk) 05:32, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ≠::Live-action wouldn't work, as there could be animated series in the same continuity. Star Wars and the MCU have both had that. JediJones77 (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose - which tabloids have claimed this, nowhere in any of the comments made by WB Discovery, WB Pictures, DC Studios, nor the CEOs did they state that the franchise was renamed. They several times said that this will expand the "DC universe", but until they clarify if that's the name or just a general statement -- this should not be done.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:48, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you. A mature opinion. 2400:1A00:B030:221B:E8BB:44CE:4B19:E3F5 (talk) 12:37, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose for now, until the name change is explicit, not just assumed by second-caliber reliable sources based on the report of high-caliber reliable source that doesn't confirm it. —El Millo (talk) 04:53, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose — We're talking the same people who reported that "Worlds of DC" was the official name at one point because that's how they called it — and "Justice League Universe". And if this were the name, then the move would be to DC Universe (cinematic universe) or DC Universe (media franchise) — specifically, DC Universe (live-action cinematic universe) or DC Universe (live-action media franchise) — with Constantine and even 1989's Batman retroactively part of this now, it will get confusing fast if it's anything else, with how many other DC Universe franchises there are. This reminds me of how The CW “officially” changed the Arrowverse to The CWverse a while back. 89.19.88.197 (talk) 05:32, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose. In addition to the disambiguation problem, there's no hard evidence of an official name change, and certainly no evidence that the WP:COMMONNAME changed. Remember, we had this page at DC Extended Universe before the name became official, because it was already the common name.  O.N.R.  (talk) 08:21, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree that, as WB uses it, DCU refers not just to the shared continuity started with Man of Steel, but also includes Joker and The Batman. The problem is "DC Extended Universe" is already not an official name in any way. And it's awkward enough that it would likely never be chosen by WB marketing as an official name. What's "extended" about it? Being confined to a specific continuity that doesn't include Joker, etc. suggests it's the opposite of extended, and is more compact. I also think the term has fallen out of favor with the media. Fans still commonly use the DCEU abbreviation though. "DCCU," i.e. DC Cinematic Universe would make more logical sense because it would parallel the MCU's name. However, given there is no official term from WB to describe these films, the Wikipedia entry should perhaps seek to use a more generic term, and not something that sounds as faux official-sounding as DCEU or DCCU. Something like DC shared film universe. JediJones77 (talk) 16:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That's not true. While DCEU started as an unofficial label, it was adopted as official in May 2020 when HBO Max launched, which is specified in the Etimology section of this article. Besides, we had it as a name for this article even before it was official, purely because it was the WP:COMMONNAME. —El Millo (talk) 16:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Labels on a streaming service don't carry any more weight than what a company's rep might write in a social media post. I strongly disagree that what appears in a label on HBO Max is an official confirmation of the name as a matter of company policy. HBO Max's use of the term is thoroughly informal, just used to group movies on their screen together as part of their user interface. It is not something that required any review or approval from upper management to get there. You will NEVER see a WB executive use the term DCEU, just as yesterday's press release once again proved. HBO Max's use of the term is strictly informal and unofficial, and surely put in place by a low-level employee without the authority to officially designate a name for DC's film universe. JediJones77 (talk) 17:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The DCEU name was made official by HBO Max a while back, so it's no longer a "fan term". Also I don't know how much weight this carries, but Dwayne Johnson has consistently referred to the DCEU as the DCEU in his recent tweets. I don't think we can compare this to the MCU, which has never had any ambiguity with its name. It's more similar to the situation with the SSU, formerly known as the SMU, SUMC, and SPUMC, and the SSU Wikipedia article has been moved every time Sony changed its name. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * He has tweeted out the term DCEU, but whenever The Rock speaks in interviews, he calls it the DCU. Whenever he spells out the words in his tweets, he calls it the DC Universe. The word "extended" is very unpopular in context of this term, and almost no one uses it anymore. This phrase, spelled out, is no longer the common parlance to describe this universe. The abbreviation continues to be widely used in writing, but almost no one likes to say it out loud. It's a very awkward series of letters to speak. The DCEU term has fallen out of favor in many ways in recent years. Whatever label the IT staff puts on the HBO Max service's user interface is in no way a representation of official company policy. That is not the kind of thing that would've been vetted through upper management. Designing that UI is a job for lower level staff.
 * I believe a more generic term should be used for this article, while the term DCEU should be mentioned as something commonly, but informally used. The title of this article is misleading, in that it looks like the leadership of WB has formally announced that this is what they're calling their movies, which is not the case. This article should not take sides in a debate about what to call these movies. It should remain neutral and use a generic term to describe them. JediJones77 (talk) 17:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Then what generic name do you suggest this article be called? DC's media franchise? DC Studios' media franchise? DC cinematic universe? InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Once again... there are multiple individuals within the franchise that have referred to it as "DCEU" over time, especially following its official naming/branding as such on HBO Max. Until a reliable source states that the DCEU has been renamed, we cannot just go along with the tabloids that often times jump on something that isn't the actual case. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 03:32, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * We have reliable sources which documented this name change; they're listed in the first comment of this discussion. None of which are tabloids, so I'm not sure why you would call them that. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:43, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose  – As far as I've seen, DCEU is the common and most widely used name. Plus, it leaves the status of films like The Batman and Joker ambiguous since they're technically DCU as well. User:Saimcheeda (talk) 20:25, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of changing the name. In a memo obtained by The Wrap; Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav said, "For over 60 years, these and other DC characters have captivated and inspired generations of fans around the world, and as stewards of the iconic franchise, we feel a real responsibility to preserve and expand the DCU for the enjoyment of future generations."
 * The article name needs to be changed to reflect the name they call it. Mulder1013 (talk) 21:21, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Where is your source for this memo? You need to provide your source. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 03:28, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Here is the memo in question: https://www.thewrap.com/dc-universe-preserve-expand-david-zaslav-james-gunn/ Criticalus (talk) 04:21, 27 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Support.
 * DC Universe (film franchise) seems great to me. I honestly never liked/understood the "Extended" in the name and now, in the marketing attempt to rebrand the franchise and make it feel like a new era is beginning, they are giving us the chance to call it in a more logical way. The name will stick only if people will embrace it, but I guess that "if Wikipedia say so" the chances are a lot higher that it will. So I'd say, let's do it. My humble opinion. In the end I'll be on board with whatever you guys will decide. Henjin Dono (talk) 00:19, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The move should not be done until there is an official name explicitly stated by DC Studios, or anyone involved with the DCEU. The question at this point is whether individuals involved simply called it "the DC universe" as an all encompassing category or whether it is the new official name. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 03:30, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: While I wouldn't say that this is a defining answer, it's worth noting that DC.com's article about the Easter egg references in Black Adam, calls the franchise "DC Universe"; viewable here. We obviously need more refs/a defining statement but this is notable none-the-less.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:10, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: I get the reticence of fellow editors to change the article name until more sources show the change, however I am seeing more sources come out that show the new name, for example at https://www.thewrap.com/dc-universe-preserve-expand-david-zaslav-james-gunn/ where Zaslav explicitly uses the acronym DCU as opposed to DCEU. Perhaps not enough of these will come up by the time closure of this is possible (11/2/2022) to break the obvious consensus against a name change at this time, but perhaps soon after there will be enough sources to make the change. It seems inevitable, more of a 'when' than an 'if', but we'll see how it plays out. Criticalus (talk) 04:21, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose: The DC Universe is a very generic name. DC Extended Universe is the name most associated with the series from Man of Steel to Black Adam. We already have DC Universe as the title for the comics' universe, so disambiguation would be awkward for this move. And this is Worlds of DC all over again. SeanWheeler (talk) 04:34, 27 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Unlike WB is consistent with their branding, I support the name change to DC Universe (film franchise) only if we include the DCEU title in the initial paragraph. The name is too synonymous with the film franchise to ignore it due to debates on semantics. Definitively (talk) 06:17, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose: took the words out of my mouth with the Worlds of DC comparison. This proposition definitely has more merit and outside sources than just the end tag of an ad, but the "DC Universe" is such a broad term that it's a stretch to call it a rebrand of the whole film franchise at this point. Considering that the DC Extended Universe is still the common name and has been for several years now, I'm not sure I'd support even if the change was official, at least not until a large number of sources start using the new name.  Sock   ( tock talk)  12:55, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I guess that we can wait for a few months to move the page. Redjedi23 (talk) 21:54, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Question to nom:, there's an article at DC Universe. Where would it go if consensus supports your proposed move? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 20:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Relist note to closer: just put the RM notif header on the other article linking to discussion here; considering vigorous discussion above, no point in delay. Relisted to ensure seven days pass before a close. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 20:34, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment This is a great question and point. I don't yet have a good answer for it, and given that the clear consensus seems to be verging towards oppose (as of now we have 0 support votes), I think we have time to figure this out before revisiting this question in the future, probably after DC Studios has had some time to settle under its new leadership and publicize the rebrand more thoroughly. Here are some proposals that have been made in this RM and why I feel none of them is a good choice:
 * DC Universe (film franchise) - not appropriate because this DC Universe also includes the television medium
 * DC Universe (media franchise) - it's confusing; it could be argued that the DC comic universe is also a media franchise, or that indeed, both the DC Universe (comics) and the DC Universe (film and TV) fall under the same broader DC Universe (media franchise)
 * DC Universe (live-action Warner Bros. franchise)- uses proper noun, not generic, precludes animation
 * DC Universe (DC Studios) - uses proper noun, not generic,
 * DC Universe (Warner Bros. franchise) - same as above
 * I do agree the general construction should be DC Universe (disambiguator), and that the current article at DC Universe should be moved to 'DC Universe (comics franchise)' or something similar, but what that disambiguator should be for the movies/TV side of the franchise is still out of focus for me. It would be useful for other suggestions to be made over the final days before this RM closes so that if another one pops up in the future these names and discussions can be referenced. Criticalus (talk) 21:56, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The comics one should not be moved, it's the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and remain so for at least the next few decades. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:23, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, you're right. Criticalus (talk) 16:08, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose I oppose this move at this time. However, should this resurface in the future, the article currently at DC Universe regarding the comics universe is the primary topic and would stay as such. This article would need a disambiguation (if going with the "DC Universe" title), and I think the most appropriate one would be DC Universe (DC Studios) given Gunn and Safran are overseeing films, television, and animation. Having the disambiguation be "film franchise" would be limiting in its scope. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:30, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Per WP:NCDAB, generic disambiguations are preferred over proper nouns, so DC Universe (media franchise) would probably be a better choice. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a better idea. The entertainment news site I'm working for is shifting from calling it DCEU to DCU as it is the term being used by producers. Voicebox64 (talk) 16:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rename accepted!
I am going to agree and accept that the DC Extended Universe will use "DC Universe" as its new and official name. VictorPinas17 (talk) 03:12, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * If you meant to add a !vote to the RM discussion above, you're in the wrong section. If not, I'm not sure what you mean. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:04, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The DC cinematic universe is erratic, and WB must be faulted for not having thought of an official name earlier or stopping the press from proliferating a term coined as a joke without realising it was one. But very often misnomers remain the article title (like the Spanish flu) and this too will since it is the most common name. Kailash29792 (talk)  06:47, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Move discussion is closed now, and it's been agreed not to be moved for good reason because "DC Universe" is everything DC related. SeanWheeler (talk) 04:12, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Change DC Extended Universe (DCEU) to DC Universe (DCU)
I think change from DC Extended Universe to DC Universe (film franchise). 2403:6200:8890:73F0:183E:38DF:1876:19C4 (talk) 07:38, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * A move has just been rejected above at . PrimeHunter (talk) 14:30, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Instead we could just go with “DC Universe” and “DC Universe (comics).” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:152:4400:3100:A1E2:205B:8B78:8357 (talk) 22:53, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * What? InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:09, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

The Sandman being part of the DCEU or not
I've just reverted back into the article The Sandman Netflix series. The edit summary for its exclusion was that it wasn't part of the DCEU, but just a tiny bit of research reveals a far more interesting answer. This article from Radiotimes as well as this one from NetflixJunkie and this one from, oddly enough, MensHealth seem to support the idea that it is not only a part of the DCEU,but part of our own, as well. I get that this is vague, especially when the dumbasses piloting these various DCu properties use DCU and DCEU interchangeably, despite being separate animals. This warrants discussion, so let's talk about it. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 20:47, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Gaiman said:, which is so vague and ambiguous that it works as a non-answer logistically, so we can't go either way with that. Can you point to the specific part of the Men's Health article where it supports the series being a part of the DCEU? Because there's a subtitle that literally says: in it. —El Millo (talk) 21:54, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The Sandman was in development decades before the DCEU was even conceived. None of the sources you provided support the idea that it's part of the franchise and The Sandman article outright says it was never supposed to be part of the DCEU. The fact it's even listed here and people don't understand why it shouldn't be is laughable. The comic was set in the DC Universe, that doesn't automatically mean the film had to have been part of a shared universe. JOE BRO 64  21:57, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm tempted to reply, but I thought I'd wait for the weekend, so as to let others a chance to weigh in. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 22:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The Sandman is not set in the DCEU, end of story. I genuinely don't know where this is coming from. It was never announced to be part of the DCEU, it was not conceived as a DCEU project, and there is no evidence that it has been retconned to be part of the DCEU. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:59, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

James Gunn refers to DC shared-universe as “DCU” in recent tweet
We should continue to document evidence of a change in DCEU’s branding. In a Twitter thread today, co-CEO James Gunn referred to the shared universe as the “DCU.”

https://twitter.com/jamesgunn/status/1589336408036372480?s=46&t=qmzjub5EIyyfDAnQE0vFSA Definitively (talk) 20:18, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * No he didn't. Read the thread closely, and he never explicitly references the shared universe that began with Man of Steel. In fact, in the first tweet he literally mentions Legends of Tomorrow, which is Arrowverse. This actually further solidifies the argument that "DCU" is being used as an umbrella term to refer to all DC media adaptations. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:20, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * We could also just change DC Universe to DC Universe (Comics). I mean it'd make sense it applies more towards most comic readers than more general viewers than the "DCEU." There's even a disambiguation page for it: DC Universe (disambiguation). 2601:152:4400:3100:450A:9EB0:64B1:1183 (talk) 20:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * No, we shouldn't. The comics universe is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and will remain so for at least the next few decades. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The comics are still by far the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC—if anything we should change this page to "DC Universe (film series)". DecafPotato (talk) 02:17, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I just want to mention that what it is technically officially called is not particularly relevant when "DC Extended Universe (DCEU)" is still the WP:COMMONNAME for the franchise. That is how it is described in media most often, and that is unlikely to change in the near future, if ever now after the recent news. It also makes it far more confusing to the reader to have two "DC Universe" pages when the current name is perfectly differentiative as it is. I agree that we should document the history of what the franchise is called by DC, but the rename suggestions are quite pointless. There's a reason we don't rename Arrowverse despite it not officially being called that for quite some time. Rman41 (talk) 05:40, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

This article is lengthy
This article is massive and it's a puzzle to correctly edit. Can we remove some unneeded information? Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 18:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree, and I've added very long. Looking at the TOC, maybe it's natural to split it over different media: "DC Extended Universe in Television" and "DC Extended Universe Films", and so on. -- Mikeblas (talk) 18:12, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we should start off by cutting off the fat with all the various reports and statements. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 18:14, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I will, as I once did in the past, suggest to remove the Additional crew and production details section, given that, unlike the Recurring cast and characters section, doesn't provide any insight to the DCEU as a franchise. It only lists the creatives for each individual film, which are essential pieces of information for each film in particular at each film's individual article, but it serves no purpose when it comes to the franchise as a whole. —El Millo (talk) 18:40, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I do agree with that. It's pointless really. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 07:26, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The tag at the top of the article is incorrect. The readable prose size of the article when the tag was added was 44 kB, not 125 kB, and the readable prose size of the article as of now is 39 KB., may I ask how you got that number? A split is not mandated per WP:SIZERULE, but I'm not opposed to one regardless. As discussed at /Archive 9, Draft:List of DC Extended Universe films is a good starting point for a split, and the could also potentially be spun off to its own article, similar to List of unproduced X-Men film series projects. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:41, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I used Prosesize. The article has already changed, but maybe I used the "Prose size (including all HTML code)" metric when I should have used the "Prose size (text only)" metric, but the very long documentation isn't particularly clear about which metric is meant to be used. Either way, I don't think a split need to be "mandated" to happen--there seems to be consensus so far that the article should be modularized. -- Mikeblas (talk) 14:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like expansion size is pretty high: . -- Mikeblas (talk) 14:21, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The readable prose size is always the number we use to measure an article's length, and this is stated both on the template documentation and the tag itself. For this revision, the version before you added the tag, Prosesize reads:
 * InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:02, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
 * InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:02, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

New Franchise
This is more of a question rather than a proposal. If, and only if, the franchise is confirmed to be rebooted under Gunn & Safran, with the name DCU officially used for it, would it be considered a new franchise and therefore would it have its own article?--Shabook (talk) 13:46, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to think it would. I doubt, though, that the reboot will be complete, given both The Suicide Squad and Peacemeker, by Gunn, are included in the DCEU, and thus unlikely to be rebooted or ignored going forward. I don't know what we'll do if those happen to be the only properties that carry on being canon to the hypothetical reboot. —El Millo (talk) 16:05, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree, at this point Gunn's universe should be moved to a new page. All the big players that formed the DCEU are gone - save for the Suicide Squad but it's questionable whether Gunn's Squad even has a place in the DCEU. One of many examples: in Peacemaker, it's said that "Batman doesn't kill" but Batfleck very obviously does. The Suicide Squad (2021) was in itself a reboot. Actors return and backstories are familiar but that's it. The Suicide Squad franchise is really the only remaining argument that Gunn's universe could still be connected to the DCEU, and that argument falls apart under the slightest amount of scrutiny.
 * It's unprecedented how Gunn has gutted the DC movie universe so it can be hard to pinpoint where one thing ends and another begins. But it is very clear that the DCEU and Gunn's DC are two separate entities, and they shouldn't share a Wikipedia page. GuitarHeroAero (talk) 23:36, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Whoa, whoa, not so fast! Gunn has made exactly zero announcements regarding a reboot of the DCEU or the creation of a new franchise. All the buzz you read online where people go, "OMG, Henry is fired and WW3 is axed, that means he's starting over! What about TSS? Blue Beetle? Is he planning a reboot? Or a soft reboot?" is pure speculation, and WP:OR on our part. Until there is official/formal word (i.e. either from WB/Gunn directly or from an RS) that the DCEU franchise that began in 2013 is ending and a new one will be created, we have no justification for splitting off any of this article's content, or making any assumptions regarding the canonicity of upcoming DCEU films. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:11, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Gunn's Suicide Squad mini-franchise is connected to Black Adam, which is definitely connected to the prior films through Snyder's Superman and the Shazam! movies. There's no question that Gunn was playing in the DCEU's sandbox at least up until a couple months ago. Vader13289 (talk) 02:50, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

FYI, it appears someone has already created Draft:DC Universe (film franchise). It's a bit premature if you ask me, but whatever. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

New slate
With the revelation of the new slate I think it might best for both sides if we rename the DCEU page as “DC Universe (film franchise)” and revamp the lead to say

"The DC Universe (DCU), previously known as the DC Extended Universe (DCEU) until its 2023 restructuring, is an American shared media franchise…"

Its become clear this isn’t a seperate franchise from Gunn’s announcement and comments during it and more of a soft-reboot within the same film franchise. The DCEU films should have their own section under the larger Film section as "DC Extended Universe (2013–2023)" and then from Superman: Legacy onward is under "DC Universe". MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 18:03, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with seperating between the past DCEU and this upcoming 'Gods and Monsters' chapter of films. My question is should this article be split formally, keeping this as DCEU from (2013-2023) and then this new DCU be its own article with all the upcoming films and television shows? I would support the latter as it seems this is a brand new interconnected franchise from what came before.Yeoutie (talk) 18:22, 31 January 2023 (UTC) EDIT: Draft:DC Universe (film franchise) seems like a great start in separating these two, and provides a fresh break from this article.Yeoutie (talk) 19:03, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Not entirely separate since TSS and Peacemaker characters are being brought over. So it’s a bit of a conundrum. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 18:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * it's not a matter of canon anymore. Gunn calls it the DCU. This page should either be renamed like the above person suggested or split into its own page because despite sharing actors, is seperate from what was colloquially known as the "DCEU". 2601:8C:C301:81F0:610D:1523:B780:9295 (talk) 18:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree, it's time to split these pages. At best, Gunn's DCU is a spiritual successor to the DCEU, but in no way are they one continuous universe. GuitarHeroAero (talk) 18:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Dave Bautisa
Even with his latest comments, we should hold off on any major changes until we receive more solid confirmation from either Gunn or the trades. An official announcement is rumored for tomorrow anyway. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:22, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This may be what you were talking about: DC Slate Unveiled: New Batman, Supergirl Movies, a Green Lantern TV Show, and More from James Gunn, Peter Safran. While it doesn't mention Bautisa, it seems to be new information on the upcoming projects that are relevant to this page.  Mike  Allen   18:00, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Well yes, that was the big announcement Gunn has been teasing. My comment about Bautista was made yesterday, the announcement dropped this morning. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:DC Universe § Requested move 31 January 2023
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:DC Universe § Requested move 31 January 2023. &#x0020;Thank you. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:56, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

A new DCU page
As some people are saying the new DCU is absolutely separate from DCEU. Flash would lead into the DCU and the next couple of projects might be common in both the universes. A new DCU page is needed and include whichever projects James Gunn recently announced. And some of the characters from DCEU would be coming into the new DCU. There might be an overlap of characters but including them is only a way to preserve the backstories of those characters. But once they're in the new DCU they're absolutely separate. 122.148.204.197 (talk) 04:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * There's already such a page, DC Universe (franchise). InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:13, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

DCU
The DCU in what James Gunn and Peter Safran working is another esque. Will need its own aarticle. This DCEU will be another thing, not the same DCU.OscarFercho (talk) OscarFercho (talk) 04:05, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * See . This is too early to tell, and we can't jump to any conclusions just yet. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:13, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I know, but all the projects considered in development are now dead. This article is full of old news without any future.OscarFercho (talk) 05:22, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Which projects are you referring to? The cancellation of WW3, MOS2, and BA2 are already mentioned in the article. Several uncanceled DCEU films slated for future release remain. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:25, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * All the projects with no any update in years.OscarFercho (talk) 02:09, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Without a source that says any of those projects have been removed from DCEU canonicity, we can't do anything. WP:OR. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * But, there's no any update.
 * Until when we need keep maintain in this article?OscarFercho (talk) 03:15, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Are your talking about the Other potential films section? —El Millo (talk) 03:37, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. Is a lot of information, but nothing concrete.OscarFercho (talk) 02:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It looks like the DCU is separate, and a new beginning. Kailash29792 (talk)  04:41, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything in that article (which just reiterates Gunn's tweet about the Variety report) that suggests that. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:59, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, we should wait for some official announcement to assume that these are separate universes. Redjedi23 (talk) 01:01, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Gunn has been referring to both universes separately since the beginning of his tenure. I’m all for there being a separate page for the two universes and I say the new one should be kept ChristianJosephAllbee (talk) 11:38, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

DC Universe (franchise) deletion discussion
I have recently opened a discussion at Articles for deletion/DC Universe (franchise), proposing the deletion of DC Universe (franchise) as I think it's too soon to create the page for now. I request any interested users here to give their opinion if they'd like to. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 08:41, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Please Don't Delete it since James Gun already confirm his chapter 1. Blackhood1 (talk) 10:08, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I say it should be kept. Gunn has been referring to the DCEU and DCU universes separately and they should be treated as such ChristianJosephAllbee (talk) 11:39, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

User:Blackhood1, User:ChristianJosephAllbee If you have any opposition to my proposal, please comment so at the discussion I started instead of commenting here, otherwise your opposition might not be counted by the admins/closers. I have no authority to delete anything, it's consensus of users that will decide it. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 11:42, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Reducing the article
Hello, I want to suggest to reduce the Fims section. It is crowded with descriptions of each film. What if one day there will be 20 or more movies and we will write a description for each one? It will be too much. Therefore, I propose to remove the descriptions and leave only three tables: Released, Upcoming and Future. Дмитрий Чугай (talk) 17:26, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I Agree too. Each movies have their own Articles, so not much needed to be discussed here. KCCian24 (talk) 13:23, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Not clear whether there will be a new franchise
There seems to be some really quick actions to end this franchise article, based on the fact that Gunn stated today that the events of The Flash "resets" the DC Universe. This however seems to not at all be the case, when he and co-CEO Safran followed up with stating that The Flash directly leads into Blue Beetle. The pair call it a part of their DC Universe, and state that it directly leads into Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom which will lead directly into their slate of "Gods and Monsters" projects. The references for these and the pairs elaborations can be read on DC's official website here and here. Until the pair or someone else in leadership at the studio states otherwise, this article should NOT be removing projects, stating that the franchise is ending, nor saying that there will be a new franchise.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:11, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

They said it can be a part of the DCU not that it is. That doesn't mean it is not a reboot. "I think that we’ve gotten lucky with the next four movies because we have Shazam, which leads into Flash, which resets everything, which then goes into Blue Beetle, which is totally disconnected (from everything that came before) and can be a part of the DCU, which goes into Aquaman, which leads into Superman: Legacy, our first big project." In simple words it is a reboot. I will be removing your additions. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 04:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * you cannot/should not assume what they are saying. What they clearly state is that Shazam leads into Flash (which "resets" the universe...), but then continue that it leads into Blue Beetle, which leads into Aqauman which leads into their Superman movie. Additionally so, they state as much in their announcement video where Gunn says that "Shazam has always been off in kind of his own part of the DCU"..."that moves directly into The Flash...resets the entire DC Universe... and then to move into Blue Beetle... a marvelous part of the DCU...and then into Aquaman 2 which leads directly into our next few projects." This can all be heard directly from the man's mouth here. We are jumping to conclusions by assuming that this is a new franchise. My argument would be that we need to keep the individual projects on the current DCEU article, until we have further clarification from the co-CEOs of DC Studios.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:03, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Obvious inference is not any assumption. Because they clearly mention DCU separately regarding Blue Beetle. As for about Shazam, they use DCU for every DC film now but he also stated this: "That moves directly into The Flash, a fantastic movie that […] resets the entire DC universe". Resetting the entire universe, that's a reboot. Please don't get into pointless issues. What Gunn and Safran are making is clearly different from what came before. The projects will not be kept. If there's a consensus for them very well, byt I'm not going to agree with what you say over a dead universe. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 05:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * please use professional language, while discussing a controversial topic. There is no clear definition from what they have announced at this time. The pair later in the day addressed the reality that its all "still a multiverse" here where they stated that Michael Keaton may in fact appear in a future movie. Until we have clear definition, your statements of "that's a clear reboot" or "a dead universe" are hearsay. You also just said "they use DCU for every DC film now". That's not at all what Gunn says in the video I cited where he clearly calls each new film (the four that are scheduled for release) as a "part of the DCU". He also says that he wants the audience to not be confused by conflicting franchises/timelines. He named Reeve's BatVerse and Phillip's Joker, as well as Teen Titans Go as "DC Elseworlds" properties. This does exactly the opposite of what you just claimed when you said "they use DCU for every DC film now"^. We must use/review the facts, not assumptions.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:26, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * You are being unnecessarily hostile WP:DisneyMetalhead. What do you mean professional language? I said "dead universe", I didn't try to insult you. I'm not prohibited from calling what I think is a dead universe going as dead. It's just colloquial. Please tone it down and be polite. Yes they do call every DC film DCU now. They've been calling it DCU since October . You've ignored the fact that they said it resets the entire universe, that's a reboot. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 05:36, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Discussion
I am now bringing in all other editors who have recently contributed to this article. Please review the sources I have mentioned (among any others that you find), and this video where Gunn calls each of the upcoming projects "a part of the DCU". My argument is simply that we cannot/should not WP:CRYSTALBALL until one of the co-CEOs, and/or someone else creatively involved states: "This is a reboot/separate franchise" or something of the equivalent. @Users - 2A02:214A:8114:A400:2010:DF10:4BCE:4AE4, Prefall, K-popguardian, ShrektheFifth, (a)nnihilation97, FilmLover72, ChristianJosephAllbee, 94.173.108.18, Brojam, 49.36.123.191, Poklane, 222.127.255.119, 66.60.2.49, Taking Out the Trash, 222.127.255.119, 203.212.213.179, ZooBlazer, FilmVoyage, Astalosiuas, Scout36, Favre1fan93, Landingdude13, Kuul 7 -- please review the available refs and provide any of your input/insight into this. Thanks!--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:19, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * To reiterate what I wrote at Talk:DC Universe (franchise): For simplicity's sake, I think we should consider those three films (along with The Flash) as DCEU, and everything Gunn announced today (except for The Batman/Joker) as DCU. At this point, it's not entirely clear whether the newly-announced films will share continuity with the older ones, but from a real-world perspective it's clearly a totally new thing. We should not be trying stuff all the new info into this already-lenghty article. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:31, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I attempted peacefully discussing the controversial deletions at User:Roman Reigns Fanboy's page but they assumed hostility instantly. I am bringing that conversation here now. Hopefully we can all get some clarity by discussing the topic, as I had suggested originally/previously.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:32, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * User:DisneyMetalhead you shoud let users themselves find and discuss this page. Such behaviour can be seen as WP:CANVASSING. I did not assume hostility instantly. You poked me over a mistake which I was going to notice anyway and then said that I wasn't using professional language over me saying "dead universe". I wasn't even insulting anyone but implying the universe is dead (I think it is). Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 05:36, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * No, it is common practice to ping recent editors on an article when a controversial move/deletion/inclusion is made. WP:CANVASSING doesn't apply, as I pinged each editor that has contributed. I have no idea what any of their stances are, and have stated several times that they should review refs and any others that they can find. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:43, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a great suggestion, to resolve the issues with clarity. What's still unclear from Gunn's statements is whether DCEU is the DCU (i.e.: rebranding). Something I pointed out on RRF's talk page is that with The Flash they are "reset"ting the franchise, but then he states that movie directly ties into the following release. ...one could argue that something similar was done with X-Men: Days of Future Past back in the day. It's worth noting that in the case of Waller, they state that it takes place between Peacemaker seasons one and two. It's confusing up until we get clarification. Perhaps we simply need to wait until there is clarification. As-is this seems to fall under WP:CRYSTAL. DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:41, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see the sense in what you're saying with your X-Men example User:DisneyMetalhead. I agree with you and will undo my edits. I'm sorry for wasting your time. But please don't try to accuse me of things like imposing my edits, or not using professional language. Such things do not help. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 05:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Nothing was intended as a slant towards you, nor your edits. My intent in bringing up this topic/discussion is preservation of the information that we have until there is clear definition from someone involved with the productions (i.e.: Someone that is not me, or us editors). All I have meant to say in any of these comments is that we need to refer to facts, until the "holes" are filled in. Once they should clarify - maybe that it very well is a reboot, then we could move to reorganizing information, and making a new article. As-is, it seems that all we factually know is that The Flash is resetting the continuity (to some degree), and that Gunn keeps calling Shazam!, The Flash, Blue Beetle, and Aquaman 2 "part of the DCU". DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:53, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

The seemingly most accurate solution at this point in time (until we hear otherwise) -- could be to acknowledge that The Flash is "reset"ing the universe (in some way) as they stated, and then list each new installments that they also stated directly follows its predecessor. The concerns about the size of the article could potentially be resolved in other ways. Additionally a draft, on someone's page for a potential "reboot" article separate from this one, would be constructive in case that ends up being the reality. Other editors should also voice their understanding of the sources/refs, however.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:57, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I have restored all your edits. The size should be kept to a minimum by excluding everything that is non important, that is we shouldn't be includinge every new report about something. For example if a series in developed hell has got multiple updates about it still being alive, only the latest ones should be used. If a report is from a debunked article then it should not be used. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 06:11, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Update from James Gunn: And just like that co-CEO/co-Chairman of DC Studios has clarified that The Flash "resets" the universe in various ways, but not every way. He states: "Nope" when asked if he's rebooting the DCEU, and proceeds: "Flash resets many things, not all things. Some characters remain the same and some do not." This can be read here.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 04:31, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 31 January 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Silikonz 💬  19:39, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

DC Extended Universe → DC Universe (film series) – The new slate which has been revealed by James Gunn clearly calls his semi-reboot the "DCU" and not "DCEU." Accordingly, I believe the DCEU should be noted as being used for films from 2013 to 2022, and DCU will be officially used for all future films. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 20:53, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are just three news articles which call the reboot the DCU and not the DCEU.
 * https://www.ign.com/articles/dcu-chapter-one-gods-and-monsters-james-gunn-peter-safran
 * https://www.axios.com/2023/01/31/james-gunn-dcu-announcement-batman-superman-new-dc-slate
 * https://variety.com/2023/film/news/dc-universe-superman-legacy-batman-green-lantern-supergirl-booster-gold-1235507426/
 * Note that there is also an argument that this page should be split into an article for 2013 - 2022 films and 2023 onwards films, but either way this change should be recognized. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 20:55, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all of the replies, a consensus on making an entirely different article instead of a rename has been reached. I am curious how exactly would the legacy of some DCEU projects would remain in the DCU, though- considering how actors such as Viola Davis are staying on board, it's likely that some DCEU films and projects will remain canon to the continuity of the DCU in some form. Of course, we can only properly reflect this on articles once we know the connections exactly. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 01:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose This new "DC Universe" is clearly a soft reboot/continuation of the DCEU. This article should be retained in its current state, and Draft:DC Universe (media franchise) should be moved to the mainspace after some cleanup. Also please note that there was a RM discussion a few months ago in which there was consensus "DCEU" remains the COMMONNAME of this franchise. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:47, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The draft is now live at DC Universe (franchise). This RM should probably be speedily closed. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose The DCU is something new and separate from the DCEU (from a real-world perspective at least, even if there is some crossover in terms of actors and such) and should be split to its own page when ready. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose the renaming of this article, but I absolutely support splitting the content off to a separate article concerning the DCU (i.e. move the draft to the mainspace as soon as possible), so that this article can solely be dedicated to the 2013–2022 DCEU. -- Alex_ 21 TALK 22:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose : This article stays as is. All new films fall under DC Universe (franchise) article. No need to move. As per James Gunn, Superman: Legacy is the "true start". - FilmVoyage (talk) 23:07, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose It definitely sounds like a reboot that will selectively use elements from the previous universe:
 * "The one thing that we can promise is that everything from our first project forward will be canon and will be connected. We’re using some actors from the past, we’re not using other actors from the past, but everything from that moment forward will be connected and consistent.”
 * https://www.dc.com/blog/2023/01/31/james-gunn-and-peter-safran-on-building-a-new-dc-universe Qpally (talk) 23:50, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose The fact that within the first few projects of Gunn's slate he's already announced a rebooted Batman and Superman, not to mention a Wonder Woman-adjacent project that clearly isn't related to Patty Jenkins' films due to her vision for the character's future explicitly not aligning with the plan here, it's safe to say that his shared universe and the DCEU are seperate entities. The DCEU as it is basically completely retired after Aquaman 2 releases. He even states that projects like Waller and Peacemaker S2 which are Suicide Squad-related, will treat that film as if it takes place in a "rough memory" of what the old DCEU was, probably as a convenient way to write those characters into the new canon at any time without having to acknowledge their background again. Other than that, this is a reboot. RebelYasha (talk) 00:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: It's not the same universe nor the same franchise. The difference with the new DCU isn't just in the story but also how it will be developed. It's a reset though it retroactively keeps some elements canon. A separate article is more appropriate. Besides adding DCU films to this article would just bloat it a lot and make it a mess. The new DCU also doesn't focus mostly on films unlike DCEU, as shown by Gunn promising equal number of films and shows each year. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 00:03, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I've struck my previous vote because it seems that this might not be a completely new franchise. Regardless I still Oppose because this isn't limited to a film series and DCEU is still very commonly known. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 07:11, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: This is not just a "film series"... it's sounding like a franchise with film, television, animation, and gaming. The confusing aspects are that Gun states The Flash resets everything, while acknowledging that it leads right into Blue Beetle, which leads into Aquaman 2, which leads into the projects he announced today. We will have to wait for clarification on whether it is a reboot, or merely an in-continuity soft-reboot (see X-Men: Days of Future Past for a similar approach).--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 03:05, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: As, this reboot is scheduled to be in 2025, for now I think the name DCEU should be kept. At least untill, Aqua-man and The Lost Kingdom is released. KCCian24 (talk) 13:41, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I guess I agree with DisneyMetalhead. It's too soon to decide. If Aquaman 2 is set after the events of the flash movie or if some actors will continue to play the same characters, it seems to me that you cannot just separate the two incarnations of the same franchise just because it has a big fracture right in the middle. If Ezra and Momoa will continue playing their characters for example, you will need to have seen the movies in what is now called the DCEU. And this split would be confusing for the franchise that is a confuse entity in its own. Yes, some characters are being rebooted. Yes, there is a rebranding of the name (as I already acknowledged when Gunn made the announcement months ago). But I'll keep all in the same article because even if is very fractured is the same universe. It will be just all changed from the actions of Flash and, as DisneyMetalhead was saying, is could be similar to the approach of the X-Men franchise. I don't know how it should be named. Acknowledging both the names in the same article would be confusing too. But the problem is just in the name. I think, at least for now, that all the new movies and series should be kept under the same article. Henjin Dono (talk) 12:25, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Film has been notified of this discussion. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:34, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose: for all the reasons stated above about the new DCU largely being a reboot of the DCEU with what looks like a completely new timeline, even if a few elements will carry over.--WuTang94 (talk) 19:04, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Development
I am putting the finishing touches to Draft:Development of the DC Extended Universe, and then that draft should be ready for mainspace. As it is technically a split of this page (but much more fleshed out than the current section), are there any concerns or objections to the draft being moved? InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:16, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * What is the "cut down" version for this article you are envisioning after the split? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:57, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:29, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Fine by me. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:28, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * . InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * . InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Template talk:DC Extended Universe
I looked at the template's page history and realized probably no one was going to respond, so dropping a link here. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Wonder Woman 3 has not been cancelled.
It's reported that Patty Jenkins simply won't be to direct it, but a third Wonder Woman film hasn't been officially cancelled. D.C. 2.39.13.28 (talk) 17:45, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Movie list
i want movie list phase by phase 2409:408A:1BC7:EBEA:A1FB:3583:CC0F:43CD (talk) 15:14, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There are no phases in the DCEU. —El Millo (talk) 16:09, 10 November 2023 (UTC)