Talk:Daphne Guinness

Untitled
I will add references and further information. — Jonathan Bowen 14:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It says in the intro that she is an heiress to the Guinness family, that in itself is notable.--Alf melmac 14:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

So Solid
Final paragraph of personal life is obviously untrue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.111.54 (talk) 14:36, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

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Tone
This article is ridiculously hagiographic. As far as I can tell, Guinness is a socialite who funds some art projects through her immense inherited wealth and rich friends. The article needs to be a bit clearer on her actual notability within these art circles. Ashmoo (talk) 10:18, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Request Edits April 2022
Hello, I have a suggestion for an update to this article. As I have a conflict of interest as someone who works for the subject of the article, I am proposing edits here for independent reviewers to decide whether to publish my suggestions.

In the first sentence of the article lead, I propose replacing the term “socialite” with “musician and fashion designer”.

The new sentence would read:

Daphne Diana Joan Susanna Guinness (born 9 November 1967) is an English musician and fashion designer.

Reason: Regarding the removal of the word “socialite”, as MOS:LEAD says, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article. There is no mention in the article describing Guinness as a socialite. Wikipedia’s entry on the terms says: “A socialite generally spends a significant amount of time attending various fashionable social gatherings, instead of having traditional employment.’

Using the term “socialite” as Guinness’ first and primary identifier as a person is especially inappropriate given her substantial career in music and fashion. For this to be the primary description of who she is as a person, substantial content about her being a “socialite” would need to be in the body of the article. And she would have to not have other substantial, traditional employment - being a musician, fashion designer and model is traditional employment. The fact that Guinness’ father was a Baron does not make her a socialite by default.

Thank you for considering this proposal. YhSA99b3tTnCnLdr (talk) 17:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment: This kind of title is based on what the available citations say about a person. Here are some articles I found that call her a "socialite":
 * https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/daphne-guinness-biography
 * https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/daphne-guinness-the-socialite-manifesto-m5nvt8g6lk6
 * https://jezebel.com/field-guide-daphne-guinness-and-her-thoughts-on-hitler-5842607
 * https://www.heraldweekly.com/it-girl-the-whos-who-of-each-and-every-decade/44/?xcmg=1
 * However, I will let someone more experienced than me decide if this edit should be made or not. Edhaves (talk) 08:24, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Taking careful consideration of  comment, pondering and working on the page for a few hours, I removed the word socialite, but I didn't use the wording suggested by the COI editor. Although reliable sources does state she is a socialite, people in the kind of professions of Guinness are notably famous for their social life and events.
 * Therefore it might be redundant to call all or most of them socialites. I then instead added her occupations. This is not in any way a final ruling. Articles generally are very fluid and someone else might reinstate the word if they disagree with me. Cheers! Thinker78  (talk) 04:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Request Edits for February 2023
Hello. I have a few more suggestions for updates to this article – this time focusing on the Fashion section, which is what Guinness is best known for. COI disclosure above.

I believe you left a tag saying this section needed to be expanded, so this will help with that. since you’ve done substantive work on this article in the past few months reviewing other requests, I thought you might want to take a look at these too. Thank you.

1.

In the Fashion section, as the new first paragraph, please add:

Guinness’s personal style has been widely covered in the media, including Vogue, W Magazine, Harper’s Bazaar and the New York Times. Guinness was called a “street style icon, producer, musician, and muse of Alexander McQueen and Karl Lagerfeld” by Vogue.

Reason: Adds context about Guinness’s high profile in the fashion industry, supported by coverage from a string of high-quality reliable sources. I suggest putting this at the top of the Fashion section to lead into the next section below, which goes into more detail about her work and influence in fashion.


 * I partly implemented your proposal. Instead of namedropping I suggest you write what media have to say about Guinness (i.e., don't write "she has been covered by x, y, z" but "x has said this", and "y has said that"). Best regards, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 17:10, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

2.

As the new second and third paragraphs of the Fashion section, please add:

She has been described as a “performance artist” by the New York Times for her use of and experimentation with fashion. She was named to the International Best Dressed List Hall of Fame in 1994. Guinness has styled photo shoots for photographers Steven Klein and David LaChappelle.

Reason: A direct quote from Vogue seems to be a better choice for describing Guinness’ wide influence in fashion since elements of it are subjective. But the description is also highly relevant to her biography. I also propose moving up the sentence about her being on the International Best Dressed list, and correcting it to state that she was on the list in 1994, not “since 1994” - the Vanity Fair source does not say that. Adds information about her work as a stylist for notable photographers, with reliable supporting source.

✅

3.

In the Fashion section, can you replace the current first paragraph that reads:

Guinness's first work in fashion was with Isabella Blow. She has worked with Karl Lagerfeld, NARS, MAC, Akris, Gareth Pugh, and Philip Treacy, working with them artistically or as a model or both.

With:

Guinness has been a fashion model, a curator, and fashion writer.

She has appeared on the covers of multiple international editions of Vogue,  Harper’s Bazaar, Tatler, Zoo Magazine, and other fashion magazines.

Reason: Removes the reference that Guinness’s first work in fashion was with Isabella Blow - it’s not what the source says. Specifies that Guinness has worked in fashion as a muse, model and curator of fashion exhibitions. Replaces Beaute Buzz citation with NPR, Financial Times, Vogue and the New Yorker. Organizes and lists her magazine covers, with reliable sourcing (for example, replaces Perez Hilton citation for Zoo Magazine mention).Reorganized and rewritten for structure.

✅

4.

In the Fashion section, after the paragraphs noted above, can you add a new paragraph that reads:

Following a divorce in 1999, Guinness became more involved in the avant-garde fashion movement, establishing relationships within the fashion industry. Guinness was a close friend of the late fashion designer Alexander McQueen and, according to Vogue, she “nurtured” his career.

Reason: Adds information about Guinness’ involvement in the fashion industry, including important friendship with McQueen, with top-tier reliable references.

✅

5.

In the Fashion section, after the paragraph noted above, can you add a new paragraph that reads:

Guinness has written numerous pieces on the topic of fashion, including columns published in Vogue, the Financial Times, The Times of London, and Harper’s Bazaar. She also wrote the foreword to Alexander McQueen: Fashion Visionary, contributed to Dressed to Kill: Jazz Age Fashion, and co-authored Art/Fashion in the 21st Century.

Reason: Adds information about Guinness’ work as a fashion editor, author and contributor with high quality sourcing.

✅

6.

In the Fashion section, please add new paragraphs:

In 2004, she was brought on as a fashion consultant for Gucci by François-Henri Pinault.

Following Isabella Blow’s death in 2007, Guinness purchased her entire fashion collection, months before it was scheduled to be auctioned by Christie’s in 2010. In 2014, Guinness exhibited more than 100 pieces of Blow’s collection at Somerset House.

She curated an exhibition at the Fashion Institute of Technology in 2011 that featured more than 100 contemporary pieces by various designers, including Alexander McQueen, Chanel, Valentino, and others, all from her personal couture collection. The exhibit also featured The Phenomenology of Body, a short film Guinness directed focused on costumes through the ages.

As a tribute to the deaths of Isabella Blow and Alexander McQueen, in 2011 Guinness dressed in public for the Met Gala in a Barney’s window; she wore a feathered McQueen dress and other pieces from Blow’s collection.

✅

Reason: Adds more information about Guinness’s work as a fashion consultant, curator of fashion exhibitions, and as a fashion film director, with reliable sourcing. Provides details about the exhibits she’s curated, which received international press coverage, with supporting reliable sources. Includes Guinness’s tribute to McQueen and Blow, with strong supporting citations.

7.

Please remove the paragraph in the Fashion section that reads:

She was a friend of the late fashion designer Alexander McQueen. Scheduled to model for charity on the runway the day his suicide was announced, Guinness veiled herself in mourning.

Reason: Guinness’ relationship with McQueen was moved up to earlier in the Fashion section, with updated, reliable sourcing (i.e. removed Huffington Post). The “Stylelist” citation in the next sentence does not reference Guinness “veling herself in mourning” at a charity show, so this is incorrect.

✅

8.

Please replace the third paragraph in the Fashion section that reads: She designs clothes, jewelry, and perfume. Since 1994, she has been on the International Best Dressed List. In 2010, she was named in Tatler's top 10 best-dressed list. In 2011, she created a make-up line for MAC cosmetics.

With:

As a designer, Guinness has designed a collection of shirts with Comme des Garçons for Dover Street Market, and created an estimated 100 pieces for herself in 2010 alone with no intention of selling them. She designed Contra Mundum, an 18-carat white gold glove encrusted with diamonds, with British jeweler Shaun Leane and Alexander McQueen. The glove was worn in McQueen’s shows, and was auctioned at Sotheby’s in 2017.

 Reason: Overall rewrites and organizes for structure. Replaces missing or invalid citations, like the Zimbio link and primary, broken links (like the ones used when talking about MAC). Adds more information about cosmetic collaborations and design work, with reliable sourcing. Moves best-dressed sentence to earlier in the section (see request #1.)

✅

9. In the Fashion section, after the paragraph above, please add a new paragraph:

In 2009, she created a scent named Daphne for Comme des Garçons. Guinness collaborated with NARS Cosmetics as the model for the fall 2010 campaign, which included an eyeshadow named after her. In 2011, she released a 21-product makeup line with MAC Cosmetics that included blushes, lipsticks and nail polishes.

 Reason: Adds new details about Guinness’ collaborations and work with notable fashion brands, with reliable supporting sources.

✅

10.

Please remove the fourth paragraph in the Fashion section that reads: In 2011 Guinness was photographed by photographer Bryan Adams and featured on the cover of Zoo Magazine.

Reason: I already proposed moving Guinness’s magazine covers to request #1, to help better organize this section. In request #1, replaced Perez Hilton as a source, since that is not considered reliable.

✅

Thanks. YhSA99b3tTnCnLdr (talk) 15:20, 8 February 2023 (UTC) YhSA99b3tTnCnLdr (talk) 15:20, 8 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @YhSA99b3tTnCnLdr there is a very long queue for conflict of interest edit requests. I suggest you consider reforming your request according to WP:MAKINGEREQ. Regards, Thinker78  (talk) 22:15, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, I have made most of the requested edits. Please have a look and let me know wheter you'd like to see additional amendments. Best regards, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 17:22, 6 May 2023 (UTC)