Talk:Decrepit car

regular terms
I find it interesting that according to this article there is no regular word in English. For example many languages that know the term shipwreck have come to derive a term "car wreck" - which seems obvious to me as the Lower Saxon root of wreck/wrack actually denotes the remainings (of a ship) driven ashore. So we have Autowrak (Dutch), Autowrack (German), Autovrak (Czech).

There is an obvious difference here (as far as I can seen) as the "to wreck" seems to be similar to "crash" while the German verb "abwracken" means scrappage. Interestingly the article itself refers to it in its etymology section like "referring to scrapped autos destined for Jalapa". Still however there is nothing in the article that would say there exist a regular term like "scrap car" / "scrappish car" in English.

So, are there really just those irregular terms like Jalopy, Clunker, Hooptie in English? Nothing "regular" to a degree? Guidod (talk) 20:46, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Japoly is no longer widely used in the US, but it is understood. I always understood it to mean a are that was old and in disrepair, but still more or less functioning.--RLent (talk) 16:40, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Archie Andrews's car is always termed a "jalopy" as though that is the actual model of the car! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 21:19, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Reverted page move
This article is not about "clunkers" or "bangers", but about "jalopies". This is evident from the text of most of the sections (with particular singularity in the etymology section). There was no consensus to move the article, and prior to moving it one should be developed. Alternatively, an article on bangers & clunkers could be created, with links from this page (and perhaps a streamlining of the material covered here). Bongo  matic  14:02, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

This sounds fine to me. I can see 'Jalopy' is an American term with specific cultural and contextual specificities. It seems that the other terms were all just blended into it in the past. I'll create a new generic article on bangers and clunkers. GB1931 (talk) 14:12, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. "Clunker (automobile)" needs its own article. See my comments immediately below. --Bruce Hall (talk) 02:48, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Words ... lots of words for basically the same thing. We don't need an article for each name of the thing. We need only one article for the thing. If the word is worth its own article, it can have its own article. This article currently seems to be attempting both: is it about jalopies or the word jalopy? Merge this to the generic Decrepit car is what I say. J IM ptalk·cont 08:01, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

A "clunker" is a functioning car
This article defines a clunker as "a decrepit car, often...in a nonfunctional state." Not in my parlance it ain't. A clunker is a functioning car that goes clunk as it drives down the road, therefore the name. It is beloved and driven well after it has lost all its beauty. It is often a well-functioning car that gets you to your location is relative safely, but well-functioning only in that which matters -- the engine. The doors, the radio, the air-conditioning, the windows -- all those parts of a car that do not directly relate to going from here to there safely may not be functioning. A clunker works; it is just not comfortable or stylish. Do we need a separate article for clunker? --Bruce Hall (talk) 02:45, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, we don't. A clunker is a decrepit car just like a jalopy. We don't need a new article for every slight shade of meaning in the word used to refer to the thing.  One generic article is what's needed.  This generic article can have a section on these various names. J IM ptalk·cont 08:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Nonfunctional??
In the beginning of the sumamry Jalopies are described as usually non-functional, yet the rest of the article seems to dispute that. For example, "When a jalopy gets to a state in which its maintenance becomes too expensive, its owner would be required to make a decision about its fate." And there's there the whole racing reference goign back t the 1930s, and used cars for that matter. So, I changed "nonfunctional" to "barely functional". Argel1200 (talk) 06:04, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Original Research
Removed a very large paragraph under "Popular Culture" about a car club. Although there was a link to a website at the end for reference, part of the paragraph was written from a first person perspective and most of it appeared to be original research. The information regarding the formation and history of one particular car club were far too detailed for a page on the general topic of jalopies. Brightypink (talk) 00:40, 2 November 2011 (UTC)Brightypink

Merge
In August the article Jalopy forked at Decrepit car. Up till now there has been a significant degree of content overlap between these two articles. This is hardly surprising as they are basically about the same thing. They really should be merged back together.

Ordinarily the two should be merged to the older title, however, let's take a closer look at the events leading up to the forking. On 31 August at 1:19 pm UTC GB1931 moves Jalopy to Banger / Clunker commenting that "The current term is an Americanism and is unknown beyond the United States. It is also an archaic term, even in the United States." he/she then went on and "Internationalised the article, to better reflect non-US preferences." At 2:00 pm Bongomatic moves the article back commenting "Moved without consensus. Article is not about beat-up barely working cars, but about 'jalopies' (see for example the etymology section)". This is what seems to have inspired GB1931 to create the fork., typos fixed: is is → is using AWB (7852)) (undo) (cur | prev)  15:06, 31 August 2011‎ Fæ (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,947 bytes) (Added  and  tags to article (TW)) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:54, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,948 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:49, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,697 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:48, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,633 bytes) (→Banger) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:48, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,630 bytes) (→Banger) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:46, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,634 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:45, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,628 bytes) (→External links) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:45, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,622 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:44, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,623 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:39, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,069 bytes) (→Banger) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:39, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (3,062 bytes) (←Created page with ' A decrepit car is is an old, dilapidated and often rusty

31 August 2011 history of Jalopy (cur | prev)  15:58, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,325 bytes) (→See also) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:47, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,307 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:47, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,306 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:08, 31 August 2011‎ Bongomatic (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,301 bytes) (rm extensive addition of original research; probably some good material removed too) (undo) (cur | prev)  14:00, 31 August 2011‎ Bongomatic (Talk | contribs | block)‎ m (7,281 bytes) (moved Banger / Clunker to Jalopy over redirect: Moved without consensus. Article is not about beat-up barely working cars, but about "jalopies" (see for example the etymology section)) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:36, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,281 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:35, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,281 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:34, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,287 bytes) (→Popular culture) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:33, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,282 bytes) (→Popular culture) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:33, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,270 bytes) (→Etymology) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:31, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,360 bytes) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:31, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (7,358 bytes) (Internationalised the article, to better reflect non-US preferences.) (undo) (cur | prev)  13:19, 31 August 2011‎ GB1931 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ m (7,301 bytes) (moved Jalopy to Banger / Clunker: The current term is an Americanism and is unknown beyond the United States. It is also an archaic term, even in the United States.) (undo) -->

I'm not quite sure what point Bongomatic was making when he/she said that the article "is not about beat-up barely working cars, but about 'jalopies'". GB1931's version had

"A banger (British English), clunker (both British and American English) or jalopy, hooptie or beater (exclusively American English) is an old, decrepit, and often nonfunctional car. A banger is not a well kept antique car, but a car which is mostly rundown or beaten up."

Bongomatic simply reverts to

"A jalopy (also clunker or hooptie or beater) is an old, decrepit, and often nonfunctional automobile. A jalopy is not a well kept antique car, but a car which is mostly rundown or beaten up."

Compare that to the current version:

"A jalopy (also clunker or hooptie or beater) is a decrepit car, often old and in a barely functional state. A jalopy is not a well kept antique car, but a car which is mostly rundown or beaten up."

So the article is about "beat-up barely working cars" ... which are know as jalopies. So did Bongomatic mean that the article is about the word jalopy? I guess so. Well, that's what Wikitionary is for. The article should be about the thing not its name (names are things, yes, but I don't see the need for an article on this word).

That said, though, I don't believe that Bongomatic was wrong moving the article back to Jalopy. Banger / Clunker is no better ... in fact I'd say it's worse (Banger or Clunker not both). Articles should not be moved to suit this or that dialect, however, if there exists a more generic common term then this should probably be prefered. Is GB1931's decrepit car such a term?

As noted below decrepit car is not a term in use but merely a descriptive title. It seems that this would tip the argument in favour of Jalopy. Could a more neutral word be found though?

I've merged the fork back here but in doing so I've also reorganised the article so that the focus is on the cars rather than the word jalopy (although there still is a significant ammount said about the word since I didn't delete the stuff, just put it into a Terminology section). J IM ptalk·cont 02:40, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Adjective Article

 * The following discussion has been moved here from "Talk:Decrepit car". J IM ptalk·cont 02:43, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Is it generally acceptable to create new articles simply by adding an adjective to an existing article title? In that case, this is not one, but two categories of articles that desperately need completing!
 * Shiny Car - some cars are shiny, aren't they? Do they not deserve an article?
 * Red Car - Red cars. What exactly makes them different from blue cars?
 * Dirty Car - Insight into how cars get dirty, and how people clean them.
 * Decrepit Refrigerator - Refrigerator get old too.
 * Decrepit Truck Driver - Decrepit people are notable too.

But more seriously, would this article not be better titled something like "Automobile Disposal", or something? -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 00:14, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, this was something that had been bugging me. I've merged this fork back here as discussed above. Note that this is not about disposing of these cars but about the cars themselves as things of use. J IM ptalk·cont 02:43, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

See also Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath, chapter 7, where the word Jalopy is used several times. HJ (hj@vanda.be) 109.128.124.71 (talk) 15:08, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Reworked intro
Here's how the intro was yeaterday (minus blue).

A decrepit car is a car that is often old and neglected and is in a barely functional state. Numerous slang terms are used to describe such cars, which vary by country and region, including jalopy, clunker, banger, bomb, beater, or rust bucket.

When a vehicle gets to a state in which its maintenance becomes too expensive, its owner can be required to make a decision about its fate. Some owners abandon it on the road as a parked car (an action forbidden by law in many jurisdictions).[1] If it remains parked the local authority commonly tows it to the scrapyard.[2] Other people may then sell it (or deliver it) to be stripped for spare parts for use in other vehicles.

During the 1930s, the market for used cars first started to grow, and decrepit cars were often a poor man's form of transport. Cheap dealers could obtain the cars for very little, make aesthetic adjustments, and sell the car for much more. Early hot rodders also purchased decrepit cars as the basis for racers, and early stock car racing was called banger racing in the United Kingdom and "jalopy racing" in the United States.

This has been wittled away to a single paragraph.
 * Paragraph 1
 * The first sentence said nothing. Compare it to "A red car is a car that is red." We're not defining "decrepit" (there's Wiktionary for that).  The (curent) article title "decrepit car" is simply descriptive and as such shouldn't be bold & needn't even be there (per MoS guidelines).  Don't write twisted sentences just to include the title when it's not the actual name of the ting.  The first sentence is gone but age, neglect & bareness of functionality is still mentioned.
 * The second sentence is moved to the terminology section. In its place it is noted that these vehicles have a place in pop culture.
 * Paragraph 2
 * The second paragraph was mostly about getting rid of old bombs rather than keeping them. This was a distraction.  The discussion of abandonment has been moved into a footnote so as to keep the focus on the use of these cars.
 * Also the text was stripped of its excessive verbage: owners deciding on the car's fate, how a car gets from its owner to a spare parts shop, that these parts are to be used in other vehicles, details, details, details irrelevant.
 * Paragraph 3
 * The third paragraph was merged with the former Racing class section into the new History section.

Here's the result. "Age, neglect and/or damage tends to increase the expense of maintaining a vehicle. The vehicle may reach a point where this expense would be considered to outweigh the value of keeping it. Such vehicles are generally stripped for parts or abandoned;[nb 1] however, some owners choose to keep the vehicle. These old, neglected and often barely functional cars have been used not only for transport but as racing vehicles also. Their use has earnt them a place in popular culture."

J IM ptalk·cont 01:16, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

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Hooptie
Hooptie redirects here, but a Hooptie is not necessarily a decrepit car. It can also mean usually some type of American 70's sedan that's been customized usually with fancy wheels and hydraulics. 108.200.234.93 (talk) 06:10, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Year?
"Jalopy races began in the 1930s and ended in the 1960s. The race car needed to be from before around 1941."

That would've been a hell of a trick in the 1930s.

The source for that absurdly contextless statement is dated 1951, and also claims jalopy racing is a year and a half old. Definitely needs some work. 173.3.61.190 (talk) 04:46, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

missing
what about "junkheap"? that is the single most common term when i am from (NYC area). "i drive a junkheap". "my junkheap's parked out front" etc.

and does jalopy REALLY mean decrepit car to most people? whatever it ONCE meant, it currently means a classy old car, perhaps with no roof. it's casual, true, but i would use if for an antique car in great condition, bright and shiny, etc. more about the shape/design than the condition.

oh, and hoopty is with a -y! that's how nicki minaj spells it, and that's all that matters! 2601:19C:5280:5BA7:A58D:A9B9:8013:6F85 (talk) 08:14, 28 January 2022 (UTC)