Talk:Dino Dini

Controversies
Personally i think a paragraph concerning controversies should be added, (v. sensible soccer, v. s.campbell ) etc what do you think? Romanista 12:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't think so....Dndn1011 16:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Dino, don't edit
Dndn1011, since you are Dino Dini, you really shouldn't edit this article. I removed the sections on your early life, etc., since they don't really add much to the topic of you being a game developer/designer. It's also completely unsourced. I know that you don't really need a source, since you lived it, but that kind of OR isn't permitted on Wikipedia. But moreoever, Wikipedia policy stricly prohibits anyone who has an article from editing that article, apart from blatant corrections ("Hey, I wasn't born in 1932!") and reverting vandalism. Therefore, I removed most of those sections you added.

I also removed the self-aggrandizing language and tried to make it more NPOV. I also did some other cleanup (game titles are italicized, not bolded).

So, please, limit your contributions to Wikipedia to anything but this article. Answering questions directed at you on the talk page is fine, but comments on the direction of the article should be left to other editors.

Thanks for your contributions to the 'pedia, and I hope you'll continue to contribute to other articles. :-) &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I read the policy and it did not seem to prohibit it in the manner you describe. It was a recommenedation only.  Also the background information is relevant as it is all about early video games that I designed and developed.  The current article itself it pretty poor and most of it was taken from my old website.  You have also removed text that existed prior to my attempt to clean up and fill it out. The article as it stands mentions virtually nothing at all about the years I am most noted for then quotes almost verbatim what was effectively my resmue from 1996.  Since I am not happy with this I have edited the article further removing most of the resume stuff. You are being heavy handed I believe and I am not happy about it.Dndn1011 17:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * However if your contribs were biased and unverifiable/original research... 74.38.35.171 04:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * .... then someone challanges the statements and they are modified or references are provided or those particular statements that are unnaceptable are removed. This is usually decided by debate on the acual text itself.  In this case no such debate occured.  Instead all text was removed on the basis of the identity of the author.  I hope that clarifies things for you.  Dndn1011 16:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * However since it is an autobiography, it is treated in a more heavy-handed way. I think the only way to give it even a bit chance would be to find citations yourself and put those in. Then see what happens. And he did say that you may have been self-promoting yourself with the content. You might want to try going through it and reading it as though you were someone else to see how it sounds. It's hard, but you should give a real good try. You might very well notice something. Make an honest effort to be neutral. It is difficult indeed, but not totally impossible. You really have to try hard in this case. 74.38.35.171 00:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Once Frecklefoot did what he did, I had to seek out an understanding of actual wiki policy, and Frecklefoot is wrong in his interpretation because he is treating guidelines as policy. As for the content of the article, I was doing nothing but filling in information about what I did and how I developed my career in video games.  There was nothing "self-promoting" in this.  I was just adding information.  The heavy handedness came from prejuice nothing more. Dndn1011 03:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Um, the policy I was referring to is WP:AUTO and it states in bold up at the top "This page is considered a guideline on Wikipedia. It is generally accepted among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow." That doesn't sound like just a "recommendation" to me.

However, I was wrong on one point. It states that you may make comments and observations on the Talk page (what I stated is different), so I admit that mistake. So, say as much as you like on this talk page including (bonus!) insulting me.

Apart from that, I think it's pretty clear that you're not supposed to make large changes to the article yourself. If I accidentally stripped content that you didn't add, I apologize. But from what I could tell, you added two big sections, and I removed those (though I worked some information from them into the rest of the article). If some of this information comes from your webiste, great. But it should be cited, so it is obvious it is not OR (like this  ). Of course, other works, such as interviews, articles, and books are preferred, but for subjects such as this, information like that is scant.

Go ahead and restore the information I removed that you did not originally add. My intent was not to be a Wiki-Nazi, but just to enforce Wikipedia policy. :-) &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 20:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Did you even check his contribs for neutrality?! Were they too biased? This is one of my peeves about the WP:AUTO guideline. If his contribs were neutral enough, what harm do they cause? ADDENDUM: Just noticed the WP:NOR/WP:V violation, and I agree that is an acceptable reason for removing them. WP:AUTO, alone, however, should not be sufficient reason (for one it does NOT "strictly forbid", it simply "strongly discourages".). It is also not an official policy, it is a guideline, BTW. 74.38.35.171 04:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not acceptable to simply make statements of a general kind without actually stating the specific violations. All violations are matters of opinion and should be given a chance to be resolved one way or the other.  I have yet to receive any such feedback that would be useful to the task of presenting the information properly. Instead all of my additions were simply reverted without discussion, something which Frecklefoot seems prone to do, thus scaring away newcomers.  He did this to me on the Game Design article, but in that case I did manage to get some proper feedback and then revised the article in a manner that has remained stable for some time.  Please remember that at the time when I made additions to my own article, I was fairly new to wikipedia. Dndn1011 03:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

No I have simply removed the content copied from my old webs site on the basis of copyright.Dndn1011 21:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Latest news
If someone wishes, they can add the fact that I am now a Senior Lecturer in Game Progtramming at NHTV University. http://www.igad.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=856

Additionally, there is now a youtube channel for my music projects as well http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dndn1011

Reverted
Blanaaaaaa clearly has an axe to grind, and I reverted on the basis that the article, however poor it might be, has been modfied with malice, as seen by the way Blanaaaaaa has insinuated that the claims made about my influence on the industry were made by me. They were not. I do agree that the article needs to be improved, but denying what is common knowlegde to those who have an understanding of the field is not the way to do it. Additionally, the opportunity has been taken by Blanaaaaaa to add an irrelevant reference to Stuart Campbell. Stuart Campbell has very little to do with me or my career, and such a prominent mention seems inappropriate. The achievments of my career (which I am not at liberty to go into on Wikipedia because of editorial paranoia) are not soley to have made a few games and had an argument with a journalist.

Additionally, one might suspect that Blanaaaaaa's motives were to advertise Stuart Campbell, although why we might only guess. Looking at Blanaaaaa's contributions, he or she is clearly new to wikipedia and has much to learn about tact and diplomacy. Just like Stuart Campbell, coincidentally. Dndn1011 23:14, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Your name is SYNONYMOUS with Stuart Campbell. Most people remember you as "that guy who wrote Kick Off, and had a feud with Stuart Campbell". They certainly don't think "that guy who made some music nobody has heard, started Abundant Software and made no games, and worked on some other football games that weren't released". I have no affiliation with Campbell, and I'm not sure I like him at all. My edit summary was out of order, but I had just read an interview with you where you claimed that you were the father of Sensible Soccer, and that football games were "your patch". I'm not interested in arguing about that here - I'm simply explaining the reason for my awful edit summary.


 * You absolutely should not be editing this article. You shouldn't be suggesting content for the article, and you shouldn't be joining in on AfD debates. Put your ego away, we've seen enough of it already. Blanaaaaaa 12:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You are clearly showing yourself to be full of personal opinion. Your are clearly being a Troll.  As such you should not be editing this article.  Take your own feud somewhere else. Dndn1011 15:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This matter clearly needs a mediator. If you revert again you are breaking yet another rule. Also, please spend some time thinking about why somebody can't have their "own" feud. It's a contradiction in terms. Blanaaaaaa 18:50, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Shut up. You are having your own feud.  This is because I really don't care.  If it means that much to you go ahead, have it your way.  Enjoy. Dndn1011 22:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * For someone who "really [doesn't] care", it's hilarious that you should go to the second-best "Everything2" site and write a whiny anti-Wikipedia article about yourself immediately afterwards. 86.142.246.15 15:04, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It is not prohibited for a person to edit an article about them personally. It is discouraged that a person start an article about themselves, but this is not the case here.  A person can edit their article for factual accuracy, but should refrain from personal gushing or POV (hard to do for one's own article).  Any points of contention should be backed up by verifiable references.  I'm not sure what this feud is about, but if you two are having a revert feud, it should be brought up to a mediator. If you continue reverting each other's contributions, you risk banning. &mdash; Frecklefσσt | Talk 22:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If it is so important as to be featured on Dino Dini's abstract, why is the mention of the supposed "feud" with Stuart Campbell not even mentionned on that journalist's own page? (by 79.74.240.216)

Protected
I edited the article as described in the article history page. I protected the article to allow everyone a chance to cool. I found an article on Dino Dini, an engineering professor at the University of Pisa, steamship safety engineer Dino Dini of San Jose, California, barber Dino Dini of Oak Park, Illinois, Club Dino Dini in Somerset, England, and Dino Dini, one of the leading fresco conservators in the world. I didn't find anything on Dino Dini, computer game developer. Wikipedia:Notability requires significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, here computer game developer Dino Dini. This cool-off period might be a good time to locate some reliable source material for the article. --  Jreferee  (Talk) 22:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I'm a bit confused, there are 30,000 pages on Google for "Dino Dini" of which 90% relate to me or the games I made. FYI.  Dndn1011 22:03, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow! I'll add "is able to sift through 27,000 Google results about himself" to the Dino Dini article immediately. 89.243.98.120 11:56, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia-bashing song
The subject of this article has just posted an *extremely* bitter song about Wikipedia, and his attempts to edit this article, onto YouTube. And, er, bloody hell. I started off wondering if there was a decent libel case to be made out of some of the comments in this, but lost concentration as my jaw went further to the floor. It's like watching a car crash. And don't switch off before the freeform jazz scat at seven minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anOrh_9Jw4 90.198.51.89 17:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh come on, as a complete outsider to this (just got linked from a gaming news blog) the whole thing is hilarious, and the video even more so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.57.103 (talk) 20:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

godfather of the soccer game genre
I'm not sure about the "godfather of the soccer game genre" part. This is backed by a reliable source but it is just a single sentence in a short article so I'm not sure how much WP:WEIGHT to give it? As the IP quotes:
 * This article has been the subject of much criticism due to the fact that British game designer Kevin Tom's Football Manager for the ZX Spectrum predates Dino's output by almost a decade. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.38.130 (talk • contribs) 06:59, 9 December 2012

they are not the earliest football games Football Manager (1982 series) does come before. --Salix (talk): 09:46, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * If he is "widely-considered" to be the godfather of the genre, there would be more than once source available to cite for this claim. I'm removing this; knowing Dino, he probably added it himself. 24.218.92.234 (talk) 20:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Original idea for kickoff
In this revision an IP has changed the genesis of the Kick Off game claiming that the original idea was by Steve Screech with a reference provided by a YouTube video of an interview with Screech. This seems to be quite a claim and its not backed up by the credits on the game or other sources. I suspect this might come down to a case of one person's word against the other.

(I should note that I knew Dino at university before he wrote any games).--Salix alba (talk): 20:04, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree, using an interview with Screech as "evidence" that the idea was his is entirely unsatisfactory. 2A00:23C5:6D1A:9501:B925:CD2B:6356:8291 (talk) 10:44, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071102134421/http://www.ko-gathering.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dino_Dini to http://www.ko-gathering.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dino_Dini

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Tone
The negative tone of much of this article gives it the feeling of a bit of a hatchet job on the subject... 2A00:23C5:6D1A:9501:B925:CD2B:6356:8291 (talk) 10:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)