Talk:Elizabeth Warren/Archive 18

Archive 15

Archive 16

Archive 17

Archive 18

Progressive? American Left seems to reject her use of this title.

A number of sources reject Elizabeth Warren's use of the identifier "progressive" and instead identify her more closely with the centrist (neo)liberal factions of the Democratic Party, and she is not a member of the Progressive Caucus. The article should be updated to reflect that "progressive" is at best a disputed self-identification with her being repudiated by a number of American progressives. Meow the Kitty (talk) 01:22, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

You've cited several opinion pieces, generally from (at best) minor sources (The Grayzone does not appear to be a reliable source?) From these sources, we could add that some progressives challenge Warren's "street cred" there - they don't appear to justify calling it a "disputed self-identification." NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:40, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Which progressives? Saying "some progressives challenge her street cred" is a WP:WEASEL problem. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:55, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

References

Can you use a wiki as a reference?;e.g https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent DOOMfan163 (talk) 12:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Pocahontas as a slur

@Usernameunique: has removed the recently removed word "slur" as a description of the name Pocahontas. This is widely regarded as a racist slur, as are many such "nicknames". I cannot revert due to 1RR. We are an encyclopedia and should be better than that. (BTW, I just tried to read the "reviews" to the book on Amazon and had to stop because of the gross racism.) O3000 (talk) 01:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

What book is that? Sounds interesting. Verdana♥Bold 03:11, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

It's not a slur, it's a nickname. This is an encyclopedia, and encyclopedias are supposed to be neutral. Calling it a slur is not neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.227.215.190 (talk) 08:41, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

This is definitely not a nickname. Who calls Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas" other than Donald Trump and the right wing? In what way has she or anyone close to her embraced that? Why dignify it with a prominent position on her profile? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loveandpolisci (talk • contribs) 13:51, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2020

There is no source for "Warren and Bernie Sanders are the only candidates using only grassroots funding." I would like to see a "citation needed" or have a source for this statement. 2604:3D08:2C80:EE00:74C8:7A10:216B:10A0 (talk) 20:20, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done It's sourced to the LATimes. You can try to find sources that contradict. O3000 (talk) 20:26, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Request for Comment invitation

Please participate in the Request for Comment about a change proposal for the infobox for caucus results. Xenagoras (talk) 21:46, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

"Consumer Czar" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Consumer Czar. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. feminist (talk) 18:36, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Warren's public education teaching

159.178.192.181 (talk) 05:49, 20 February 2020 (UTC)I feel like the statement that "Warren taught children with disabilities for a year in a public school" is somewhat inaccurate as reporting has shown that she was a part time speech pathologist at Riverdale for 74 days for one school year. The original board meeting notes have been reported at this website https://www.scribd.com/document/429152169/Riverdale-Board-of-Education-Meeting-Minutes-Involving-Elizabeth-Warren-1970-1971. And there is reporting of the information in several locations including \https://freebeacon.com/politics/county-records-contradict-warrens-claim-she-was-fired-over-pregnancy/ https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/new-docs-suggest-elizabeth-warren-lied-about-being-fired-from-teaching-job-was-actually-rehired/ https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/elizabeth-warren-stands-account-pregnancy-discrimination-n1063871

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2020

Change this sentence to include Tulsi Gabbard - otherwise, it is a lie: "Warren and Bernie Sanders are the only leading 2020 candidates who are running their campaigns entirely on grassroots cash." Wigbate (talk) 17:22, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done - This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". Also, you will also need to cite at least one source to support your requested edit. - MrX 🖋 17:26, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Wigbate, Tulsi is not a "leading" candidate. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I see. There's always a good way to erase Tulsi. You all are no better than corporate news. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wigbate (talk • contribs) 18:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

It's inaccurate. One of the sources says, "both also have tapped millions of dollars left over from previous campaigns — from a time when they had not yet adopted the strict fundraising practices they currently follow. That complicates their claim to “100 percent” grass-roots purity." Furthermore, Warren is now using PACs. TFD (talk) 20:35, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

I cannot edit, but like people before have said this sentance is no longer accurate and needs to be removed: "Warren and Bernie Sanders are the only leading 2020 candidates who are running their campaigns entirely on grassroots cash." Elizabeth Warren has a super pac which is very much not grassroots funding https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/elizabeth-warren-super-pac-2020-campaign — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.157.36.106 (talk) 19:09, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2020

Remove the "nickname" section from the header. Pocahontas is not a nickname that Warren has embraced - it is only used by Donald Trump and right wing officials for political purposes. Nobody else uses this term to refer to Warren. Why should we support this narrative through adding this so prominently? Loveandpolisci (talk) 13:53, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

 Already done with this edit. Thanks, ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 17:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

hi Elizabeth,i'm new at this so excuse the mistakes.i hope that you and you fellow Senaters have already made out out warrants for Trump and his family for enriching themselves on government expense!that's all i have say except keep doing the good job you've been doing!donald chin waldport,oregon--~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donaldkchin (talk • contribs) 04:39, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Ancestry and Native American relations section

The heading of the section "Ancestry and Native American relations" is odd because the majority of the content references the controversy around her claims of Native American ancestry (that she has since apologized for) rather than her actual ancestry or relations with Native American communities. The only segment that would fit the "Native American relations" aspect specifically is the small paragraph at the very end that seems more like a campaign endorsement than anything informative about the subject.

This section should be renamed and the final paragraph removed or moved to a different section. It is a bit incoherent otherwise, but perhaps there are partisan reasons to leave it the way it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.120.9.45 (talk) 15:18, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

What I'm hearing in your comment is you barely hiding a partisan attempt to turn it into a WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION, which we strive to avoid. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:28, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Add estimated net worth to Personal Details

ChewyChickenNugget (talk) 15:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)Please add to personal details: Net worth: $12 Million (estimated)

References

Bit misleading on her Native American controversy and Trump

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Ancestry_and_Native_American_relations

'Throughout his presidency, former president Donald Trump mocked Warren for her assertions of Native American ancestry, and called her the slur "Pocahontas".'

I struggle to see how it can be justified to refer to that as a "slur". Maybe some left leaning publications do, but does a majority of publications? From what I've seen the answer is no.

'At a July 2018 Montana rally, he promised that if he debated Warren, he would pay $1 million to her favorite charity if she could prove her Native American ancestry via a DNA test. Warren released results of a DNA test in October 2018, then asked Trump to donate the money to the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. Trump responded by denying that he had made the challenge. The DNA test found that Warren's ancestry is mostly European but "strongly support[ed] the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor", likely "in the range of 6 to 10 generations ago".'

Very misleading, Trump challenged her to take a DNA test that "shows you’re an Indian". Clearly having the same amount of Native DNA as any random white American doesn't satisfy that. Also the 'Trump responded by denying that he made the challenge' is also misleading as fact checked here - https://www.politifact.com/article/2018/oct/15/context-donald-trumps-1-million-offer-elizabeth-wa/

'The DNA test found that Warren's ancestry is mostly European but "strongly support[ed] the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor", likely "in the range of 6 to 10 generations ago".'

This is potentially misleading to viewers unless we note that this is the same amount of ancestry that a random white American is likely to have. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 07:56, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

That's not the amount of Native American ancestry the random white American is likely to have. The random white Amarican is likely to have 0% Native American ancestry. However, since some white Americans have a lot of Native American DNA, the average is 0.18%, compared with Warren (0.10% to 1.56%).[1] TFD (talk) 10:30, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, noting her % of Native DNA would be helpful to readers then. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

I don't see why. Warren said that her great-great-great-grandmother was part Native American, which is consistent with the DNA finding that she had a Native American ancestor 6 to 10 generations ago. This isn't a biology article. All that matters is the DNA test confirmed her claim. TFD (talk) 04:36, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Well no, what she actually said is that she is Native American, not that 200-300 years ago she had one Native American ancestor. "being Native American has been part of my story" and "1986, Warren identified her race as "American Indian" on a State Bar of Texas write-in form". The DNA test debunked her claim. I feel like telling the readers the DNA percentage is useful because it's hard to put into perspective what one ancestor 6-10 generations ago actually means, the DNA test does that. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 05:03, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Pocahontas was a person. Using it as a nickname has been recognized as a "slur" by the reliable sources: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8] – Muboshgu (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

And if I show you even more reliable sources that don't refer to it as a slur, what then? 84.70.169.190 (talk) 01:53, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

If I find reliable sources that pigs can fly, what then? It' a pointless question. TFD (talk) 04:39, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Well I'm wondering why we describe it as a slur if some reliable sources do and some don't. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 04:55, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

It's time to stop trolling. TFD (talk) 05:04, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

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"Resume Frauds and controversies"

User:Pete unseth has added a category, "Résumé frauds and controversies" and claims that justification is in the article but I can't find it anywhere in there. I have removed the category and request further eyes before it gets re-inserted.

--Stace Odyssey (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:19, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

The article documents that Dr. Warren had claimed Native American ancestry. The article also documents that there was significant controversy about her claim, both from Native Americans and those who are not. The article documents that after her DNA test she no longer claims Native American ancestry. All of that adds up to this being a controversy. The category Résumé frauds and controversies does not mean she benefitted from her claim, only that her claims were controversial. Having pointed out that the facts are already documented in the article, I am reinstating the category. If an editor documents that this was not controversial, I will happily remove this category. Pete unseth (talk) 14:08, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Describing someone as a "fraud" is unacceptable per WP:BLP, absent a conviction for fraud. The conflating of "frauds" and "controversies" is highly problematic for biographies. Categories should only be used in biographies for defining characteristics, and I wholly reject the idea that this is a "defining characteristic" here. You will need consensus to make this change, and as per BLP, you will need a clear consensus of reliable sources to describe anything as a "fraud." NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 14:12, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, "fraud" is problematic but there was definitely a controversy so I don't see a problem with that category if there is such a category. A category was not added, just a link to a nonexistent article. Coretheapple (talk) 15:08, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Having a category which conflates fraud (a criminal offense and civil tort) with "controversy" (which can mean anything) is itself problematic as applied to living people. The category should be split or disbanded; as-is, it absolutely cannot be applied here. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 15:12, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree that if such a category exists it should be renamed. Coretheapple (talk) 15:23, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

I will drop my request to add this category to the Sen. Elizabeth Warren. I see now that the problem is with the excessive breadth of the category. Trying to play well with others. Pete unseth (talk) 15:59, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Caption

The image file says it was created in 2016. Why does the caption say 2018? -Mad Mismagius (talk) 02:00, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Recent copyedit

Regarding this revert:

• Cherokee should be Wikilinked
• President Trump has "persistently mocked" Warren - as far as I know, Trump hasn't said anything about Warren for some time, so "has" can go.
• Trump promised that if he debated Warren, he would offer to pay $1 million to her favorite charity - "offer to" is not needed.
• if she could prove her Native American ancestry via a DNA test. Warren released results of a DNA test - DNA test should be wikilinked on first mention, not second.
• "Warren's past claims of American Indian ancestry garnered fierce criticism from both sides of the aisle, with President Donald Trump labeling her with a slur, "Pocahontas" - this slur is better mentioned when we first discuss Trump mocking Warren - keep related information together.
• She later reached out to - "reached out" is jargon; should be the simple verb "contacted" - see WP:PLAINENGLISH.
• Warren understands "that being a Cherokee Nation tribal citizen is rooted in centuries of culture and laws not through DNA tests." - period should come after quotation marks; see MOS:LQUOTE.
• In mid-February 2019 - just "in February 2019" is fine; if we want to be more precise, then give the date instead.

Please reconsider this revert. Popcornfud (talk) 09:36, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Your copy edits sound good to me. And BTW, thanks for that link re commas. Many times I have put the period or comma inside the quote when it did not seem correct to me but I thought that that is what WP says we should do. I still don't really understand or will not remember all that is said on the instructions, but I will do more what seems right to me and hope that it is correct. Gandydancer (talk) 13:30, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Gandydancer, yeah, it can be tricky. The basic rule is that if you're quoting a complete sentence, the punctuation goes inside the quote marks, but if you're just gluing a little piece of a sentence inside the sentence you're writing, the punctuation goes outside. Popcornfud (talk) 19:13, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry Popcornfud I guess this was my mistake. PunxtawneyPickle (talk) 20:12, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2021

There are several errors in the Committee Assignments section, as described below.

Change "Subcommittee on Airland" to "Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities" source: https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/about/subcommittees

Add "(Chair)" to the "Subcommittee on Economic Policy" Remove "(ranking member)" from "Subcommittee on Financial Institutions and Consumer Protection (ranking member)" source: https://www.banking.senate.gov/about/subcommittees

Add "Subcommittee on Fiscal Responsibility and Economic Growth (Chair)" below the Committee on Finance source: https://www.finance.senate.gov/about/subcommittees Dhendy68 (talk) 15:47, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

 Done. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 13:08, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Cite error

There is a undefined refname in the Political protégés section. It was introduced in this edit, but never defined. The section is already well referenced, so this is redundant.

Please remove the following from the Political protégés section.
<ref name="Milton"/>

Thanks 89.241.33.89 (talk) 14:23, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

This appears to have been resolved. 89.241.33.89 (talk) 18:31, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

2020 election

I propose to add the following text (copied from the wikipedia page for Warren's presidential campaign) to the section on the 2020 election:

Warren finished in fourth place in the New Hampshire primary held on February 11, 2020. Warren did not meet the 15% eligibility threshold and thus did not earn any delegates.

On Super Tuesday, Warren had a disappointing finish, winning no states and only 57 delegates. In addition, she came in third place in her home state of Massachusetts.

74.67.6.88 (talk) 20:59, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Warren apparently believes the DNC stole Bernie's nomination in 2016

The article seems to miss this interesting piece of information. [9]. I would suggest adding this into the Wikipedia entry, but I won't make any unilateral moves here. Any thoughts?Polska jest Najważniejsza (talk) 14:29, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I believe that this should be in the article. I think the citation should be the CNN story and not the Washington Post Article. She said it on CNN and the Washington Post was merely saying that she said it on CNN.JeremiahJohnson (talk) 13:51, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

1950 census

The details of the 1950 United States Census have just been released (there is a 72-year restriction on individual data, which just expired). Warren (then known as Elizabeth Herring) was born in 1949, so she would have been listed. Can anyone find her in the census and confirm what race she was listed as? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:14, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

The source would not be acceptable. We would need it to be mentioned in a reliable source. I guess we'll have to wait another twenty years to see where Obama's parents said he was born. TFD (talk) 02:12, 3 April 2022 (UTC)