Talk:Ferugliotheriidae

Categories
I added the category "Cretaceous mammals". The category "Gondwanatheres" was already there, but my understanding is that not all Gondwanatheres are Cretaceous mammals.Anythingyouwant (talk) 02:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Nor, perhaps, are all ferugliotheriids. I'd prefer to keep "Cretaceous mammals"-type categories limited to the lowest taxonomic levels (the genus, in this case), but I don't know whether there's consensus for that. Ucucha 11:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable. I've raised the issue at Category talk:Cretaceous mammals. Regarding nomenclature, I hope it's correct to say this: "Members of the Ferugliotheriidae family are called ferugliotheriid gondwanatheres or simply ferugliotheriids." Also, I'd recommend splitting the lead paragraph by merely putting in a paragraph break before describing the particular fossils.  WP:Lead has special requirements for the lead paragraph.  This is obviously an extremely informative and well-researched article, but the lead paragraph needs to address the general public rather than specialists.Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:04, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not everything that is correct needs to be mentioned explicitly. They can be called ferugliotheriid gondwanatheres, but also ferugliotheriid animals, or ferugliotheriid mammals, or whatever. I know that we have guidelines for writing a good lead, but I fail to see how those guidelines would mandate splitting up that paragraph. As it is now, the first paragraph gives a general taxonomic overview of what ferugliotheriids are, the second describes their anatomy, and the third their ecology (as far as that is known). Ucucha (talk) 17:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the article discusses a family called "Ferugliotheriidae" and a genus called "Ferugliotherium", so I don't see any harm in clarifying whether other similar terms used in the article refer to one of those, or instead refer to something else (especially if the other similar terms are used in the lead). And I see no reason to exclude from this article the person whom all of these things are named after: Egidio Feruglio.  But the article is impressive even without making those fairly simple improvements.  I won't be involved with this article anymore.  Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:57, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If you have a reliable source that says they were named after Egidio Feruglio, I'd be happy to see it; I haven't yet found any. The original description of Ferugliotherium was in an obscure publication that I haven't been able to locate. Ucucha (talk) 22:19, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See page 46.Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:49, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's not as good a source as I should like, but I've added it to Ferugliotherium. I don't think it's necessary for the family article to have this information. Ucucha (talk) 17:42, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

More FAC comments
I'm always late to the party (when I make it at all), but I had a few suggestions regarding FAC. It looks as if that has now closed.
 * 1) I think the family authority needs to be included.  I'd do it myself, but I find it so odd that it's not there that I wonder if it was left off intentionally.  Even though the text indicates that the family was named at the same time as the genus, the taxobox is there for a quick reference.
 * Oversight on my part; I've now added Bonaparte, 1986 as the family authority.
 * 1) I see crown height in the intro, but perhaps the basic shape (i.e. rectangular) of the molariform teeth could be included there. That plus crown height (to me) sets the basic stage for diet, etc. in a way that the comparison to multituberculates doesn't.  That comparison is great for the bladelike premolar, but I'm not sure too many people know what the rest of the cheek teeth in multis look like without looking it up.
 * Added. Ucucha (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) I had to look around to see that not only was Vucetichia a synonomized into Ferugliotherium, but that the two species were merged. I had assumed from reading that paragraph  that Ferugliotherium now contained two species.  Perhaps that could be clarified.
 * I've added the species names to the relevant sentence; does that clarify the matter? Ucucha (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That reads well now. --Aranae (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) It may be worth defining (or linking to something explaining) p4 for the nonspecialist.
 * It's defined somewhere in the middle of the "Taxonomy" section. Possibly the definition should be repeated. Ucucha (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I missed it.  It's already defined at the first usage as it should be. --Aranae (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) I think saying that "The enamel band is restricted to the lower side in the lower incisors and the upper side in the upper incisors" is a little confusing. There may not be a better way of saying it.  You have to remember that these are procumbent and then envision what upper and lower means.  Otherwise, one might imagine an enamel band (somehow) running near the gumline.  Would saying that the enamel band is on the distal surfaces of the incisors be better or would that just lead to envisioning enamel-tipped incisors?
 * It's mesial, not distal, I believe. The source does say ventral for the lowers and dorsal for the uppers, which I've "translated" as lower and upper, but I agree that that is not necessarily the clearest way of saying it. Perhaps "front side" is better for both the lowers and uppers; I'm not sure. Ucucha (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant distal as in away from the body (like an appendage) not distal in the dental sense. Both uses of distal are wrong.  I think mesial would mean that it is located between the two incisors and distal refers to the sides that border the diastema.  Both dorsal/upper and ventral/lower are correct and should stay in my opinion, but they only work because of they are procumbent.  Labial/lingual is really the distinction we are looking for here.  The enamel is on the labial surface in both cases.  What about "The enamel band is restricted to the lower (labial) side in the lower incisors and the upper (labial) side in the upper incisors"?  --Aranae (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see what you mean. Using "labial" has the problem that the term hasn't been defined yet where I discuss the incisors, so adding it would make for a cluttered sentence. I used a different wording that explains it's labial for both the uppers and lowers, but avoids too much jargon; see what you think. Ucucha (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Your solution is excellent. --Aranae (talk) 20:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Finally, I think the last paragraph in the article is the paragraph that will be most interesting to the widest readership. But I wonder if those readers will get that far.  Could a summary of that move to the introduction?  Is there an earlier placement in general appropriate for this?
 * I moved it up to the beginning of the section and added a few words to the lead. Ucucha (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall, I support FA status. It's a bit short for a FA article, but I suspect there is almost nothing known or conjectured about these animals that isn't already in the article.  --Aranae (talk) 15:43, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to see you back, Aranae. I've responded to each of your comments above. Ucucha (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Also, do you perhaps have access to the original description of Ferugliotherium (Bonaparte, J. F. 1986a. Sobre Mesungulatum houssayi y nuevos mamiferos cretácicos de Patagonia, Argentina. Actas IV Congreso Argentino de Paleontologia y Bioestratigrafia (Mendoza) 2:48-61)? I haven't been able to find it yet. I'm particularly interested in the etymology of Feruglio 's generic and specific names. Ucucha (talk) 17:37, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I'm currently in a bad place for interlibrary loan (begging and borrowing from friends for obscure stuff).  I assume it is named after Egidio Feruglio and doesn't mean "wild glue beast".  We, of course, need to verify that before it could go into the article.  --Aranae (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have a (far from ideal) reference for the genus name (see the section above), but none for the specific name. I suppose it's probably after es:Anselmo Windhausen. Ucucha (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Great work guys! Nice to have an unapologetically scholarly article up once in a while and make it feel like an encyclopedia (not least to offset those recurring Final Fantasy -gasms). -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:43, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

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