Talk:First Battle of Newtonia

Infobox wrong ?
I notice that the infobox is headed 'Battle of Newtonia'; but there is at least a 'Second Battle ...'. Is there any particular reason? RASAM (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:26, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 6th Kansas Cavalry flag.jpg

Copy edit queries
Hi, here goes.

I intend to be moderately bold with my copy editing, so feel entirely free to query anything which you think I have got wrong, you are not happy with or you don't understand why I've done it.


 * It is normal to give the names of the two sides and their commanders in the first sentence or two, before going on the give further background. And yes, it can feel as if you are summarising the summary. Have a look at a few of my battle FAs to see what I mean.
 * Done
 * IMO, and I don't insist that I am correct on this, what you have as "Background" should be relabelled as 'Prelude', and a new Background written giving the deeper background. Say one meaty paragraph, possibly starting something like 'The American Civil War broke out in April 1861 between a group of seceding southern states known as the Confederate States of America and the remaining northern states of the United States. There were numerous differences between the two sides, with an especially intractable one being the issue of slavery. Both sides anticipated a short war and so ... blah, blah.' filling the period up to where what is now Background commences. Feel free to shamelessly steal from American Civil War, editing down as necessary.
 * Would it be better for a whole war overview, or a ACW in Missouri overview like is at Slayback's Missouri Cavalry Regiment?
 * A mix would be fine. But IMO you definitely need something introducing the ACW as a whole. Remember, the majority of English speakers will have never - or only vaguely - have heard of it. (It is not uncommon for even educated non-Americans to confuse it with the Revolutionary War!) Gog the Mild (talk) 19:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I've got two paragraphs of a mix, covering the election of Lincoln, secession, Fort Sumter, Bull Run, Wilson's Creek, and Pea Ridge, and I've tweaked the transition in a way that kinda sets the stage


 * "that Union troops were advancing to Granby" Consider adding 'which was XX miles northeast [or whatever] of Newtonia'. There is at least one other place where similar orientation might help a reader.
 * I've got a distance between Sarcoxie and Newtonia, but I'm not finding anything that specifically states how far Newtonia and Granby are apart. Do I need to cite a highway map?
 * They don't need citing. I usually take them off Google Maps. So Newtonia to Granby is about 6 miles. Don't forget to use the convert template.
 * Added. I'm a little worried this will be challenged during the FAC, though.  (It's something I might question in a GA review, but maybe I'm just too harsh with those).


 * "Historian Shelby Foote stated that the total strength of the Union column was 4,000 men, although other sources place the overall strength at 4,500." 1) Is there a reason for these numbers being given before the artillery is detailed? 2) Is the breakdown between the three arms known?
 * 1) Moved 2) Unfortunately, not that I've seen

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:48, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * - I've replied to everything above. Unfortunately, a couple points I just haven't been able to find yet in reliable sources. Hog Farm Bacon 05:15, 22 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The new material looks very good. It is possibly a bit too detailed, so I have trimmed it slightly, see what you think.


 * "and three guns of the 25th Ohio Battery ... Lynde also brought two mountain howitzers with his force ... Union reinforcements brought the number of cannons Lynde had available to five" Something seems to have gone wrong here.
 * Corrected. When I originally wrote it, it had less detail, so when I expanded, I wound up with detail about the reinforcements, but forgot to remove the redundancy.
 * "Jeans' cavalry regiment" If that is its formal name, it should be 'Jeans' Cavalry Regiment'.
 * Formal name would be Jeans' Missouri Cavalry Regiment or the 12th Missouri Cavalry Regiment.
 * "Three cannon crews that had seen heavy fighting in Lynde's morning action ... formed a reserve". Just the crews? Not accompanied by their cannons?
 * Clarified
 * "an ammunition-gathering expedition" Would it be possible to rephrase this a little more formally.
 * Rephrased

This is looking pretty good. It should be FACable soon. Nice work. I still have Preservation to do. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)


 * "as the resources available for preservation at Newtonia". I don't understand this. What is meant by "resources"?
 * Rephrased

First run through completed. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:30, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
 * - I've got these. Many thanks. Hog Farm Bacon 02:22, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Take two

 * Where are you with the nomination for deletion for "6th Kansas Cavalry flag.jpg"?
 * It looks very likely to be kept. Claim of copyright by the source is invalid, and the people at Commons are holding that it counts as 2D art.


 * Bears: when there is more than one work by an author it is usual to put the earliest published first.
 * Done. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:42, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 14:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)


 * "a defensive line with nine available cannons" I am not sure about the use of "available". Surely it should be either 'a defensive line with the nine available cannons' or 'a defensive line with nine cannons'?
 * Fixed. Forgot the "the"

Gog the Mild (talk) 16:11, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I am sure that reviewers will find plenty that I have missed to pick at, but IMO this is now ready for FAC. Good luck. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:42, 26 July 2020 (UTC)