Talk:Flag of France

Flag of France
As currently stands I agree Tricolore is the place for this, but ideally it'd be nice to move it back to Flag of France and expand the portion on past flags of France, along the lines of Flag of Germany. --Delirium 09:57, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)


 * drat! I just moved it here! A history of all the different flags of france sounds like a very good idea though -- Tarquin 09:59, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * To bring this article into parallelism with the rest of, I wish to have this article moved back to Flag of France. Denelson83 04:56, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Tricolor vs. Tricouleur
Too bad about 'Tricolore' instead of 'Tricouleur.' Might be why no page links here. Does it mess things up to change a title? User:Wetman

Stripe widths
The three stripes are NOT of equal width. If the white stripe was the same width as the others the eye would perceive it as being broader because it is lighter. The blue and red stripes are actually wider by precisely-defined amounts so that all three are perceived as possessing egalité. And I know that's true because I read it somewhere. :-P   -    Lee M 03:40, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I think that's only the case when the flag is seen at sea. The national flag on land has equal widths for the three stripes. Denelson83 22:52, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * They ARE now of uniform width, except at sea, according to the French site (and they ought to know I guess). So did the "regulation dated 17 May 1853" relate to chaging the width of the naval flag back again? I've assumed so in my edit. 80.43.134.61 00:30, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This alleged theory doesn't correspond at all to what my eye sees. Looking at the flags on the page, the one with equal-width stripes looks as if the stripes are the same width (while the theory says that the white one should look wider), while the one with 30:33:37 stripes appears to have an egregiously wide red stripe and a slightly narrow blue stripe (whereas the theory says they should all look equally wide). So, does anyone have a cite for this theory of the human eye? Dricherby (talk) 23:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The 30:33:37 stripes are for use as an actual flag, flapping in the wind. In that case the wider red stripe doesn't appear wider, because of the flapping. There is actually a version not mentioned in the article with a much narrower white stripe, used so that when officials (usually politicians) talk on TV with a flag beside them, with the image cropped on their head, the three colors are visible. Aesma (talk) 13:26, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Article title
"Tricolore" is unfortunately not an English language word, and "Tricolor" is the way this flag is referenced in English. I think it really ought to be back to the drawing board on this particular disambiguation: the distinction between tricolored flags and the Tricolor is through capitalization or specification, and since Wikipedia doesn't permit the capitalization distinction, another way ought to be found that is less misleading. - Nunh-huh 07:22, 15 May 2004 (UTC)


 * A distinction should be made between tricolor (tricolour) flags in general and the proper name of the French tricolor flag. The former should be rendered in English; the latter is a proper noun that should be capitalized and may or may not have an accepted English-language variation. (I'm still hunting for Wikipedia and printed style guidelines on this area.) The one thing I can say for sure at the moment is that, for the generic usage, "tricolor" is preferred in American English, while "tricolour" is preferred in British English. For this reason, any link to the article "Tricolour" should be spelled that way (based on Wikipedia policies to [A] retain spelling of article creator for non-US, non-UK subjects and [B] use direct links rather than redirected links). Mentioning the alternate US spelling is not a bad idea. On the other hand, the statement "more commonly known as the Tricolour" [emphasis mine], which refers to the specific Flag of France, appears to be inaccurately based on British POV. I am researching this and will shortly report my results (and edit the article text on that basis) in the "General 'Tricolore' spelling issues" section below. -- Jeff Q 22:29, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

General "Tricolore" spelling issues
The current state of the phrase "more commonly known as the Tricolor (Tricolour)" still strikes me as odd, since these labels are implicitly preferred over the article's name. One might ask, "Which is it? Tricolore, Tricolor, or Tricolour? (Or even Tricouleur?) And who says which?" I was going to revise this phrase to say the following:


 * ''… more commonly known as the Tricolore (French), Tricolor (US English), or Tricolour (UK English)…

… but I was unsure on two points. First, my French isn't adequate to discern the difference between tricouleur and tricolore, so I don't know which is the correct term for The Flag. Second, if the French term is given, shouldn't it be "le (drapeau?) tricolore" rather than "the Tricolore"? Could someone with a better command of not only the language, but the usage in this case, make a definitive statement? As a self-appointed member of the Wiki link cleanup crew, I'd be happy to move around and/or rename pages and links from any pages using any variation, if I only knew the answer. &mdash; Jeff Q 21:21, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

To sum up the spelling and usage issues at hand in this article…

There are three basic prevailing practices for referring to non-English, Latin script-based proper nouns in English:


 * 1) Use the original language's exact spelling (possibly dropping accents).
 * 2) Use an English translation of the name.
 * 3) Use an Anglicized spelling of the original name.

For the most part, en:Wikipedia seems generally to recommend #3, but indicates that the overriding concern is to ensure English speakers recognize the name. (Tricolore would seem to need no Anglicized spelling for such recognition.) The current Proper names article doesn't provide explicit guidelines on which practice to use for things with proper names. As is mentioned somewhere in the Naming conventions oeuvre (I don't recall where), modern practice is moving toward #1; i.e., using original names for terms in Latin alphabets that don't have an English translation in common use.

Two issues raised in this Talk page are:


 * 1) What do the French call their flag?
 * 2) What do English speakers call the French flag?

There are apparently four relevant variations on the spelling of this article's subject:


 * 1) Tricolore
 * 2) Tricolour
 * 3) Tricolor
 * 4) Tricouleur

I checked with six different online French-to-English dictionaries. Four had no entries for any of these. Two (french-linguistics.co.uk's French/English Dictionary and univ-rennesl.fr's Dictionnaire Français-Anglais) had entries for tricolore, but no alternate. A French-only Google search turned up about 82,000 hits, 89% of which used tricolore. (Even though the French would for "color" is couleur, the spelling tricouleur had less than 0.1% Google prevalence.) Along with some other specific references I ran into, plus my rusty memory of French, this strongly suggests to me that the French call their flag le tricolore (or le drapeau), without capitalization. I will proceed on this basis unless and until someone with more French experience corrects me. This also means that the article title is accurate, excepting only that, if it weren't for the Wiki practice of capitalizing the first letter of any article title, it might more accurately be tricolore. (And thus the problem is effectively moot.)

For English usage, an English-only Google search gave about 330,000 hits, 58% for "tricolor" and 33% for "tricolour" (reflecting a preponderance of US-based Web pages, I suspect). I found that Merriam-Webster Online (US) listed "tricolor" as both the general term and the name of the French flag. Cambridge Dictionaries Online (UK) was more informative, giving the spellings as "tricolour UK, US tricolor". Neither MWO nor CDO gave a proper-noun citation of this term. (MWO cited its use as "the French tricolor", CDO "the French tricolour". Both uses imply the general case; i.e., "the tricolor that is French", rather than specifically "the Tricolore".) The lack of a proper noun (e.g., "Tricolor" or "Tricolour") in either reference suggests that neither English spelling is in scholarly use as the proper name of French flag. (It may very well be used in common writing and in modern news articles &mdash; even the latter of which demonstrate an increasing illiteracy through egregious spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors &mdash; but a capitalized English variation is apparently not accepted as official.) On this basis, I plan to change the wording of the first sentence in the article to the following:


 * The tricolore is the national flag of France. Known to English speakers as the French tricolour (UK) or tricolor (US), it features three vertical bands coloured blue (hoist side), white, and red.

This accomplishs three previously-unmet goals:


 * 1) The first line of the article matches the article's title in a Wiki-standard fashion.
 * 2) Both English spellings are provided.
 * 3) The link to the general term tricolour is included without implying any official English name in preference to the français tricolore.

I will also change the other "tricolour" reference to "tricolore", the latter of which is already used in the article, both for consistency and to avoid further debate of UK vs. US spellings in an article on a French subject. Hopefully this will put a rest to this issue. -- Jeff Q 00:26, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not a grammarian but I'm French, "colore" as a suffix is perfectly French, "couleur" isn't (it's a noun). Commonly used words include "bicolore, quadricolore", meaning something with 2, 4 colors. (Le) tricolore to talk about the French flag is fine, but not really used, as attested by the name of the French article about the flag : "Drapeau de la France" (French flag). "Drapeau tricolore" is a more common variation. Aesma (talk) 13:41, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Page move
(from WP:RM)

Tricolore → Flag of France; Tiranga → Flag of India

 * The reason for this move is to bring the article into parallelism with the other articles listed in Category:National flags. Denelson83 04:59, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Would not object if you realized that the spelling is la "tricoleur." Tricolore is the Italian flag.  Therefore, I'm forced to object. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 17:30, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * An objection on the grounds that "tricolore" refers to the Italian flag makes no sense to me, since the content of the article is about the French flag--in fact, that is all the more reason to move the content to Flag of France. The only issue resulting from the fact that the article has been at the wrong name is that the redir created by the move should be changed to redir to Flag of Italy. I totally support this move, and hope ExplorerCDT reconsiders. I kinda wish someone had just brought this to my attention on my talk page, instead of posting here--I would have just corrected the problem without delay. Niteowlneils 18:01, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * ExplorerCDT: According to the Oxford Hachette French Dictionary, tricolore is a French word, having among its meanings "the tricolour, the French flag". The Web site of the Présidence de la République also calls the French flag le drapeau tricolore.   Feel free to correct them. (BTW, drapeau tricoleur only gets 14 hits on Google.) --Tkinias 13:45, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Google also has about 806 hits for tricoleur, which is the preferred spelling according to Dictionnaire de l’Académie francaise. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 15:02, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * As opposed to 461,000 hits for tricolore (some of which do, indeed, refer to the Italian flag, but some also to the French). Try "drapeau tricoleur" (quoted) and you get zero hits, plus a helpful Did you mean: "drapeau tricolor".  Drapeau tricolor is never going to be Italian.  Since only A-N of the Dictionnaire are on line, I'll have to take your word for their preference... but I see no reason not to have tricoleur as a redirect.  I agree, BTW, that tricolore more commonly refers in English to the Italian flag.  However, it is not at all unambiguous, and tricolore should be a disambiguation page pointing either to tricolore (France) and tricolore (Italy) or Flag of France and Flag of Italy. &mdash;Tkinias 15:58, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree (I never exactly voted in the above discussion). To clarify: as ExplorerCDT pointed out, tricolore can also be the Flag of Italy, so the article should be moved and a disambig page set up at Tricolore. &mdash;Tkinias 00:36, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I am from France, and I would like to add something here, since I don't really understand the controversy. In the French language of France, "tricolore" is an adjective, it means "having three colors", and it can be used for the French flag (as in "le drapeau tricolore"), but also for traffic lights (as in "un feu tricolore"), and son on. It is not a word reserved only for the flag. "Tricolore" is very rarely used as a noun ("le tricolore"). In fact when French people refer to their flag, they either call it "les couleurs", as in "saluer les couleurs" (salute the flag), or they call it "le drapeau bleu-blanc-rouge", as in "agiter un drapeau bleu-blanc-rouge" (to waive a French flag). The word "tricoleur" simply does not exist in French. Now in English, there's the word "tricolor" (or "tricolour" if you are in the British Isles), and this word can be used as a noun unlike in France, and it refers to any flag with three stripes of colors, oftentimes the French flag. It seems because English speakers say "the tricolor" when they refer to the French flag, they assume that French people say "le tricolore" when they talk about their flag, which I'm sorry to say we don't. So if you want the article to have a French title, it should be "Drapeau tricolore" or "Drapeau bleu-blanc-rouge" or "Drapeau de la France", but if you want the title in English, which seems more logical to me since this is the English Wikipedia, then the title should logically be "Flag of France". To have the article titled "Tricolore" (with an "e" in the end) is simply silly, because "tricolore" with an "e" is not an English word, so it basically pretends to be the way French people call it, whereas as I explained we don't call it "le tricolore". Check "Drapeau de la France" rticle on the French Wikipedia. Hardouin 01:36, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I second Hardouin; "le tricolore" is just the conventional nickname of the French flag. Us Québecois refer indirectly to our flag as "le fleurdelisé" and to the Canadian flag as "l'unifolié" in the same fashion. These are just periphrases. It may be it's used more in English than French ("le tricolore" seems more often used on this side of the Atlantic, apparently), but that is a moot point.Urhixidur 00:33, 2004 Nov 26 (UTC)
 * Agree to the move. Should not redirect based on Hardouin's explanation. DCEdwards1966 00:49, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree. And please also move Tiranga to Flag of India. Neutralitytalk 21:13, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * And Union Jack to Flag of the United Kingdom? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:31, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree. But tricolore should stay, the term is sometimes used in English, and it should be a disambiguation page between Flag of France, Flag of Italy and tricolour. Nikola

History
"by 1789 the colours of Paris were no longer in use" I don't agree with that : In his diary, Gouverneur Morris wrote, on July 17th 1789 that when Louis XVI came to Paris on that day "The King’s Horse Guards, some of the Gardes du Corps, and all those who attend him, have the cockades of the city, viz., red and blue." and that, at the Hôtel de Ville, the King "put in his hat a large cockade of the red and blue ribbons, and then, and not till then, received the general shouts of “Vive le Roi!" marcparis6 09:57, May 10, 2005 (UTC).


 * Nothing in your quotation is incorrect. The blue and red, on July 17th, were no more associated with the colours of the city of Paris... but, associated with white, to the Revolution... That's it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enzino (talk • contribs) 02:36, 11 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't see your point : Morris said that red and blue was then the coulours of the City of Paris. He didn't mention the symbol of the American revolution. "Most historians and specialists of flags, including those in France". Can you mention only one please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcparis6 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

The first paragraph of "history" comes to an abrupt end ("It was stored in Saint-Denis abbey, where it was tak" (!)), somebody must have edited it and lost a fragment. If anybody knows what should be there, please correct it (and remove this when done). :) 138.4.2.169 17:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

New, correct blue colour
I modified the blue color in the design part of "Flag of France" but the header has no edit button so I don't know how to change the main flag.--Titop33 18:52, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I am a little awkward, as I am a newbie, but I found the "edit this page" button.--Titop33 18:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Not a problem, welcome ! :) Rama 19:14, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * As seen on Commons:Image talk:Flag of France.svg - the only sources quoted seem to be in favour of the previous colours being official, and not "RGB (0,85,164) and (239,65,53)" as the article presently claims. I've reverted the flag colours unless some quoted source claims otherwise. &mdash;Gabbe 13:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Vexillological symbol--missing ensigns
The Vexillological symbol for the flag indicates that the flag described in this article is the one intended for land use (three superior dots). The article also mentions that the ensign used by the navy differs only in the proportions of the bars. Alright, so we now have four out of the six dots figured out. What are the other two ensigns (the ones for private and state--non-military--use)? I'm assuming they're the same as the one used by the Navy, but... how do we know that? Would anyone knowledgeable of the flag care to include that somewhere in the article? (or perhaps point it out to me, in case I missed it)? Rod ESQ 20:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Cross flag of the the Ancient Regime
http://flagspot.net/flags/crus1188.html#red http://flagspot.net/flags/fr~mon.html#civ

Ever notice how it fleshes (like England, Scotland and Ireland) nicely into the Union Jack? Perhaps it was all of an innocent origin, but I think it's slick! Just as the British dropped the royal arms of France, they come up with a national flag which inadvertantly adds France--like in Canada, adding the French arms! I am of both Huguenot and Roman Catholic French heritage, but absolutely treasure the old English claims. IP Address 05:04, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Your talking utter wishful bollocks you sad little Francophone. The British flag is made of a blend of forerunning national flags of lands (England and Wales, Scotland, Ireland) far, far, older than France and its flag(s). The aforesaid British home nations have also kept borders that have stayed the same throughtout unlike the recent annexed borders of France. If anything, that forlorn French blue and white cross flag looks the spit of the Greek flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_flags) - a fellow Mediterranean nation of France. A downright example of the French spiking their imperialist colours into flag of somewhere outside France - was the flag the French imperialist knocked up called the "flag of the Saar Protectorate" 1919-1935 https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=saar+protectorate+flag. The French were trying the best to annex Saarland away from Germany all the way into the 1980s! Anyway, think lots of sly tributes to France in lots of flags born in Francophone Belgium and in 'pseudo Francophone' Luxemburgh even down to the village level (all highly fascist) - and most flags being recent inventions. Utter unhinged invented madness and corruption of history and truthfulness to make France feel important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.37.22 (talk) 21:54, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Influence
The flag is three vertical strips of colour. While it may have had some influence, it's quite bold to state, without citation, that it has influenced all those flags. Having such a large gallery also detracts from the true point of this article. violet/riga (t) 15:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Newfoundland & Iraq Flags on this page?
Frankly, I am at a loss as to why the flags of Newfoundland and Iraq are among the few displayed on this page. It makes absolutely no sense. There are dozens of more appropriate flags inspired by the tricolore that could be displayed here, including those of the Napoléonic states at the turn of the XIXe century (which would be an excellent addition), the French states of colonial Africa, or perhaps even the U.S. state of Iowa. Before I delete them myself, will someone explain why they feel the flags of Newfoundland (Terre-Neuve) and Iraq are justified here. Thank you. Charvex 03:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

just to let you know the flag of france is one of the most recognised flags in the world.

Missing pieces of this article
Reading this article for the first time, I'm struck by the absence of (1) any mention of the actual first date of adoption of the flag, (2) any extended discussion of the flag's association with the French Revolution and revolutionary ideology (the only mentions of the revolution are either indirect or in a caption), and (3) the flag's influence on other modern "republican" flags (Ireland, Italy, Mexico, etc.)

Were these elements included in past iterations of the article and deleted for some reason? If so, could someone restore them?P.D. 19:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Large blank space
Can the large blank space under "Design" be shortened somehow? Right now it might give the impression that the article is a stub that ends after the introduction. Funnyhat 06:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

White flag
The plain white flag was the flag used before 1789, and not the fleur-de-lissé flag, which was only used when for member of the royal family. I felt free to change this error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.24.233.213 (talk) 17:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As France was an Absolute Monarchy under the Bourbons, particularly with Louis XIV, in which France was the personal possession of the king (encapsulated in the possibly apocryphal, but nevertheless indicative, quote by Louis XIV: "L'État est Moi"), the Royal Flag of France should be used for the period 1624-1789. The Fleur de Lís of the ruling Bourbon family imposed on the white field of that flag demonstrates this. The idea of a 'national flag' predominating a royal flag at this time is an anachronism as the modern Nationalism idea of the French nation only comes into existence during the revolution. Wars during this period could only be conducted at the behest of the king of France, not the nation of France.Tttom1 (talk) 13:59, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

French battle flag
Is that supposed to be a piss take!?? The implcation being the French are cowards... :-/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.179.192.28 (talk) 23:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

HTML colors
After looking at the source code in the table under the "design" heading, I noticed that the HTML color codes used for the actual images of the colors (around the words "Blue," "White," and "Red") are different than the HTML color codes listed in the table as the actual codes. Can anyone comment on which are correct?--Vox Rationis (Talk | contribs) 18:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

History of the flag
Being French, the story I learned about the flag has always been the same, in school, readings or internet : the blue and red were Paris' colors and the white was the king's, refering to the revolution time, combination of the King and Paris.

Also "The Blue of the flag represents the great power or influence France has over other countries; the white, for purity; the red, for the bloodshed that must be lost in honor of their own country"

This affirmation seems realy strange to me and I never heard of this, so if true, there should be a reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.171.42.159 (talk) 06:48, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The first link make a reference to the book Flags by Eve Devereux, wich I can't reach online. Akhyll (talk) 09:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

On "Tricouleur"
I'm surprised nobody has made note of this sooner. The word "tricouleur" does NOT exist in French. Any native French speaker knows this, and although they could guess its meaning by association of "tri" (for "three") and "couleur" (for "colour"), they would correct this word immediately to "tricolore". Only non-native speakers might be tempted to create the word "tricouleur" (which, by the way, is a very sensible choice), but it is incorrect. So, there's no need to bicker over this term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.72.93.5 (talk) 20:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

French Battle Flag
I removed that terrible joke of the French Battle Flag showing a white flag. That's terribly unimaginative trolling Matthieu (talk) 12:27, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Flag of the Bourbon Restoration
Sorry, but the page http://www.fotw.net/flags/fr_rest.html is the only one saying that the restorations flag was the Pavillon royal I found. There are several pages saying that it was the Drapeau blanc (enter "drapeau blanc" into the search function): etc. Louis88 (talk) 11:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.taxiclic.com/articles/Drapeau-francais.html
 * http://www.cia-france.com/francais/la_france_le_francais/bleu_blanc_rouge.htm
 * http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/article-imprim.php3?id_article=5157
 * http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/histoire/SYMBOLES/sommaire.asp
 * http://www.ambafrance-us.org/fr/aaz/republique.asp
 * As France was an Absolute Monarchy under the Bourbons, particularly with Louis XIV, in which France was the personal possession of the king (encapsulated in the possibly apocryphal, but nevertheless indicative, quote by Louis XIV: "L'État est Moi"), the Royal Flag of France should be used for the period 1624-1789. The Fleur de Lís of the ruling Bourbon family imposed on the white field of that flag demonstrates this. The idea of a 'national flag' predominating a royal flag at this time is an anachronism as the modern Nationalism idea of the French nation only comes into existence during the revolution. Wars during this period could only be conducted at the behest of the king of France, not the nation of France.Tttom1 (talk) 14:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * see:
 * http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgdisplaylargemeta.cfm?strucID=585779&imageID=1236061&parent_id=585395&word=&s=&notword=&d=&c=&f=&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&lword=&lfield=&num=0&imgs=12&total=98&pos=1&snum=
 * on the reverse of this plate it says: "Le pavillon royal était véritablement le drapeau national au dix-huitième siecle...Vue du chateau d'arrière d'un vaisseau de guerre de haut rang portant le pavillon royal (blanc, avec les armes de France)."
 * http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgdisplaylargemeta.cfm?strucID=585780&imageID=1236062&parent_id=585395&word=&s=&notword=&d=&c=&f=&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&lword=&lfield=&num=0&imgs=12&total=98&pos=2&snum=
 * Tttom1 (talk) 15:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * also:
 * http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~mudws/flag/history.htm
 * "Flags of France, 1682-1763. LaSalle planted the white flag of the Bourbon kings of France at the mouth of the Mississippi River in 1682, and Iberville made the settlement at Ocean Springs under the same flag in 1699. Three golden fleurs-de-lis appeared on nearly all the Bourbon flags, though sometimes it was entirely white. The blue field of the French flag had officially disappeared by royal decree of Louis XIV in 1659." Similarly: http://www.tfdc.org/FrenchFlags.htm Tttom1 (talk) 15:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * George Ripley, Charles Anderson Dana, The American Cyclopaedia, New York, 1874, p. 250, "...the standard of France was white, sprinkled with golden fleur de lis...". *[1]The original Banner of France was strewn with fleurs-de-lis.:
 * http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/speccol/sc1500/sc1545/e_catalog_2002/1120research.html painting shows white flag with golden fleur de lis. more sources: http://www.geocities.com/brigman2000/flags2.html more: http://www.anyflag.com/history/fleurwht.htm "Prior to the French Revolution, there was no national flag which represented France. A variety of flags were used by troops, different types of ships and for other purposes. From 1590-1790 this flag is one of four that was used on warships and fortresses. The plain white flag, known as the Bourbon Banner, and this white flag with three golden fleurs-de-lis, a white flag with many fleurs-de-lis, or a white flag with many fleurs-de-lis with the arms of France in the center"Tttom1 (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

White Cross flag
Notice something a little "off" about the "white cross on a blue field" flag? Like the fact it's the file for the flag of Greece? Can someone possibly dedicate France's own flag file?-- Z blewski  |talk   22:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * @Zblewski it's not Greece flag's lol. it's the cross of Saint Michel used against the English during the 100YW

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croix_de_saint_Michel

It's the one used for the flag of Quebec Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 12:00, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

France has no arms?
Because France has no arms, the Tricolour is also the national emblem.

Is there some technical meaning of "emblem" that I'm not getting here? What's this National Emblem of France? (That article says that it's an emblem and not a coat of arms because it ignores the rules of heraldry. But that still implies that the flag is not the emblem.) Nick (talk) 03:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

this france flagg means nothing to the us


 * The French flag is the only official national emblem of France. There is no official coat of arms. An unofficial one is somewhat commonly used including on passports, but that's it. It's the same with all oversea territories of France, some have an official flag, most don't, but either way, the national flag and emblem of all parts of France is the national flag.Aesma (talk) 14:00, 7 March 2019 (UTC)


 * @Nick81 there's no more monarchy, so we stopped using coat of arms Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 11:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Links
Reference 7 has man broken links.--68.193.135.139 (talk) 04:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Grenadier Pied banner1804.png Nominated for speedy Deletion
france sucks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.189.130.148 (talk) 18:39, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

"HTML" Colours
In the table showing different ways of representing the colours used, is the term "HTML Colours" incorrect? HTML colours are surely colours predefined in HTML ("red", "blue" etc.) and these would not be a perfect match for the flag colours. The colours given in this row (eg. #0055A4) are hex colours, which are a different thing. 188.223.164.32 (talk) 20:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Colors
The link to the colors (said to be in German, from diplomatie.gouv.fr, but now a 404 error) is broken, and the French article mentions that there are no hues defined by French law or government. Maybe someone should update this article accordingly? I unfortunately don't have time to research the subject.

CielProfond (talk) 22:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Currently, the lead image uses the version of the flag with the lighter colors and is captioned as having been adopted in 1976, with the darker version shown below as a "variant flag" adopted in 1848. This is incorrect as no official change in the flag took place in that year. The flag of France (at least that which is flown on land, I am not sure about the ensign) does not have any official shades specified for the blue and red. Different makers make the flag in different shades and Valery Giscard D'Estaing did not adopt or change the official shades; as I understand, he started using the lighter shades for his personal standard and this seems to have led to the lighter shades being used more often in flag manufacture, but there is not any official specification for what the shades should be (if you look at the flag draping the casket of President Charles De Gaulle several years prior to 1976, it already had a lighter shade of blue at any rate). The source to which the information on this page justifying the 1976 adoption date is linked is incorrect and seems to be basing itself on an earlier, now obsolete French-language version of this Wikipedia article. Basically, the correct information would be that the current flag on land (irrespective of the shades used, which are not defined by law and which vary according to maker and changing trends in usage) was definitively adopted in 1848, having been originally adopted as an ensign (for use at sea) in 1794 but having been subsequently abolished and re-adopted with changing regimes. Someone should edit the adoption information and any references to what happened in 1976; I would make the changes myself if I had the time. Erracht (talk) 19:59, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

The French flag is unflatteringly known as the 'retreat-colour'
links into the surrender reputation the French have widely across the world from Haiti to New Caledonia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.69.58.27 (talk) 06:21, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Also heard that the French flag can officially act as a stand-in flag for the white flag of surrender in much of the French colonies. There is famous hostage event where the kidnappers surrendered using a the French tricolour as a makeshift surrender flag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.69.58.27 (talk) 06:25, 6 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, if it's that famous, you'll be able to find a reliable source telling us all about it, won't you? GrindtXX (talk) 12:35, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I'm German und we have also heard of this "retreatcolour" name fur the French tricolour flag. Sorry man, but it's the truth. Swallow your nationalistic pride Frenchmonkeyman. Stop being so 1980s nationalist primitive Frenchmonkeymen people. Yours, Astrid Horstkötter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.223.127.247 (talk) 22:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)


 * @5.69.58.27 Your German so you should've also heard that not only did France won more war than you, but also we didn't start two world war that we lose, and our leader at the time despite being a Nazi didn't committed suicide because he was loosing. Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 11:57, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Colours
I have just considerably pruned the following paragraph from the "Design" section, which is self-contradictory and incomprehensible. What exactly was "in use from 1974 to 1981"? The darker version? That implies the lighter version is now the "official" version, but if so what does "[s]ome diplomatic services abroad still use the light blue (reflex blue) version" mean? What, indeed, is "reflex blue"? 1974–81 was in fact the presidential tenure of Giscard d'Estaing: however, the French version of this article makes no mention of any changes to the flag colours during his presidency. There may be something behind all this, but it needs clear explanation and properly cited sources.


 * The colours were adopted by Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, which replaced a darker version of the flag. It has been in use from 1974 to 1981. The French constitution of 1946 mentions in its article 2 that "the national emblem is the tricolour flag, blue, white, red, with three vertical stripes of equal dimensions." Nowadays, the darker blue is in use on national monuments, on military buildings, and on ships. Some diplomatic services abroad still use the light blue (reflex blue) version of the flag. While the dark and light versions of actual flags are used equally, the light version (i.e. the main version used by Wikipedia) is far more common on digital displays.

GrindtXX (talk) 15:48, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

1974/1976 or 1981?
When were the current colors introduced? After some digging I've found two conflicting dates, 1976 (or 1974) and 1981. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 23:20, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Tricoloure and Tricouleur as an alternate title?
Does it fit Tricoloure/Tricouleur at all? 124.106.140.191 (talk) 01:23, 8 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I don't understand your question. "Tricoloure" is not, as far as I'm aware, a word used in any language. "Tricouleur" is a word sometimes found used by English-language authors trying to look more authentically French, but the French don't, in fact, use the word, preferring the preferring the Italianate "Tricolore" (for reasons I don't full understand). On Wikipedia, Tricouleur exists as a redirect to this article, but we don't use the word within the article itself. There is also a separate article on Tricolour (flag). GrindtXX (talk) 12:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Although the noun "color" is "couleur" in French, all derived words use the "-color(e)-" root. Hence "(dé)colorer" (to tint/discolor), "colorier" (to color with pencils), "coloration" (coloring), "multicolore", etc. and, of course, "tricolore". 80.215.42.10 (talk) 15:31, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Flag of the Bourbon restoration
Are we certain it was the plain white flag? The French article suggests that the flag of that time had the coat of arms on it, and the 1830 painting by Léon Cogniet does as well: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Lar7_cogniet_001z.jpg/800px-Lar7_cogniet_001z.jpg 2602:306:CFEA:170:84E5:EF40:100E:508F (talk) 19:06, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Flag of the United States which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:46, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Hex Codes for the Darker shades?
I've noticed that there are no information or codes on the specific shades of the colors of the Darker Shaded flag used for most of France's existence. Any info on it? SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 00:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Communism
French flag is respected by communists. It was also respected by Communards due to its affiliation with leftism and Jacobinism. It isn't a flag against Communism but a flag against rightism. --Comrade-yutyo (talk) 14:20, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:39, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Flag of Constitutional Royal France.svg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:38, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Count Henri of Chambord's Flag of France.svg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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 * Proposed design for a flag of Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes.svg

2021 flag change
It was discovered today that the French government quietly changed the flag of France. It is now the same as the original tricolour; the blue is now dark blue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:980:CCE4:1:CC2F:771E:5CB2:50FB (talk) 13:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it now says in the infobox: "Used from 1848–1976, readopted in 2021" and the matter of the nuances of blue isn't addressed anywhere in the article. This makes it sound as if France had a totally different flag between 1976 and 2020/21, and that's an overstatement. It's just a relatively small change of colour nuances to the blue and red fields, and this isn't very unusual in the history of flags. The tricolote has been the flag of France ever since 1848 and that's what the infobox should say; the details about the precise nuances of blue and red can be dealt with in a subsection down page. 188.150.64.57 (talk) 02:00, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The colour issue is now mentioned in the article. There has been several incidences of changing the date from 2020 to 2021, which is wrong - all sources cited agree. Re "Used from 1848–1976, readopted in 2020": I'd tend to drop that. We're not speaking of a change to the basics of the flag, and it's not even as if there was one consistent shade of blue, I don't think it's even been specified or defined. From what I've seen in the news (I'm no expert), light blue was often used from 1976, but this was usage, not specification. And Macron didn't make any change as such (no announcement, no requirement), he just flew a darker blue flag on his palace. So I'd say that the flag hasn't changed substantially since 1848 (or earlier? I don't know). Best wishes, Pol098 (talk)
 * We do know that the dark blue version is used only for government agencies and historical monuments as the news does not mention non-government organizations (e.g. civilian owned organizations). I think it is best to keep the light blue version until further notice from the government because the flag has not been standardized yet. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 18:47, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Can I suggest a step back and looking at the wider context? The flag is blue, white and red, and has been legitimately used in a range of shades. These choices about which shades to use are relatively minor compared to the fact that the flag has functioned perfectly well with multiple precise depictions for many years, and the changes by various presidents are not only the level of "changing the flag".

Macron's change applies only directly to specific contexts, yes, but that was also the case for VGE's lighter version as well. The dark version has been consistently used in many contexts all that time. It's getting it completely back to front to say that the "new" dark version is only for government use - there are many possible versions, and all that's happened is that some parts of the government have abandoned a particular version that was in use for a while, for something closer to what was generally used both before 1976 and by many others since. JPD (talk) 00:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have to agree that in practice, both versions will continue to be in concurrent use like the flag of Canada, even though we have long conquered the limitations of displaying colours on computer and handheld digital displays. I know that in some outdoor lighting scenarios, navy blue gets brightened to avoid confusion with black. -- Minoa (talk) 09:07, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

As as has been mentioned above, this is not a new flag, and it does not replace anything, since the dark variant has been in uninterrupted use since 1848. The sources presenting the recent "change" as a change even agrees with this and mentioned the dark versions use prior to this change (even after the introduction of the alternate light version from 1976). So 1. to replace it or present this development as a "replacement" or "change" to the flag is wrong and 2. the colours of the "new" dark version are supposed to be the same as the original colours (which are still in use...) and therefore it is also wrong to make new files (which are not needed in the first place) have new colours which does not match the old, original colours. --Havsjö (talk) 10:05, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Main image in infobox poll
This has been changed several times in the last few days. Rather than the edit-warring, can we take a proper consensus decision? Light form or darker form? I have requested temporary page protection, and put a rem note in the infobox.Kevin McE (talk) 19:10, 18 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Weak Darker: it is both original and seems to have the highest level of official support, but I have a lot of sympathy for the counterargument that the pale version has been in more common use for many years and that this doesn't change overnight. Kevin McE (talk) 19:10, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Both. Similarly to as it was before. See below for proposal. Reason: the light and dark version are interchangeable and have been since the introduction of the light version in 1976. The file for the dark version should only be the Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg (which I have requested to have its name changed to "Flag of France (dark version)") as these are the darker-shade colors which match all the other uses of the dark french shades on Wikipedia. And there is not really an edit war going on, just corrections to people who are wrongly stating a change has occurred in the flag of France, which is objectively incorrect --Havsjö (talk) 19:40, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Both. Rather than captioned as "flag" and "variant", better "lighter version/variant" and "darker version" (i.e., leave discussion and clarification to the text). There is no "official" shade, just blue, white, red. In reality a dyed piece of cloth exposed to sunlight and weather isn't going to have a precisely defined hue anyway. I don't have a strong opinion, either or both will do, but both is probably less likely to be warred over. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 21:17, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Shade of flag in templates
I have proposed that, following the apparent shift in official practice, the darker variant of the French flag should be used in Wikipedia templates. It is best not to have the discussion happening in parallel in various places, so can I direct those who might want to express an opinion to Template talk:Country data France. Thank you. Kevin McE (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 18 November 2021
Replace (top image to the right)

with (bottom image to the right) Havsjö (talk) 19:47, 18 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for these useful suggestions. This is at this point as consensus is required (see section below). If consensus is reached the protection can be removed and this (or any other edit) can then be made. -- Euryalus (talk) 19:53, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Article is briefly edit-protected
Hi all. I've briefly edit-protected the article to slow the rapid-fire changing of flag colours and allow consensus to develop on this talkpage re what the "official" colours are. The protection will expire in a few days but can be lifted at any time if early agreement is reached. Note that protection of this version of the page does not make it "the right one" - it's simply the version that existed at the time protection was applied.

Apologies if this protection interrupts edits anyone wanted to make to any other part of this article. If you had an unrelated edit you wished to make, please consider using this template to request that it be made. -- Euryalus (talk) 19:51, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 19 November 2021
the translated part of this section is not very good, I speak both French and English and could help translate it 69.181.181.134 (talk) 02:02, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the offer. If you note specific changes here they can be considered and copied in. CMD (talk) 02:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The same bad translation of this passage is also in Alphonse de Lamartine, so a better retranslation could be copied there too. And this article isn't edit-protected, so can be done there now, and copied here later. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 16:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

New flag of France
Current French president has decided to change the flag from a light blue stripe to a dark blue one. I think it would be more accurate to update the article. 2A04:CEC0:1038:3D04:76C0:42F5:B92B:3FEB (talk) 01:07, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Both versions are used now and since the 70s.....that said we should write something about the usage of both ...


 * Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 01:19, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


 * we should write something about the usage of both: It's been in the article for ages; look for text near "Both versions were used from then"; and the BBC reference here is cited in the article. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 12:24, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * oh the irony. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 16:30, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Le Braddock (talk) 17:24, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * the old (or new) flag with dark colors is visible at every speech behind President Macron or his Prime Minister, in addition, it is also seen on several official buildings of the French government and on monuments since 2020.

Therefore, I think it would be more appropriate for the dark flag to be displayed as the main flag and for the light flag to be taken as the variance.



Le Braddock (talk) 17:24, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I have removed the edit request template, this is under active discussion in other threads. CMD (talk) 18:20, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Naval Flag
The article says the Navy uses a flag with different proportions. Shouldn't that one also be added here and listed as a naval flag. If its actually in use that way its a distinct flag, and even the non-standard TV flag is mentioned in the article. jonas (talk) 00:48, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I would say that there's little point in illustrating the naval flag (designed to appear equally spaced when flapping on a flagpole); it is clearly explained in the text. On the other hand, illustrating the TV flag ("standard" or not is irrelevant, it's widely used) is helpful, as it gives you an idea of what a closeup of someone standing in front of it might look like. Even better would be a picture of it in use if there is one available. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 11:43, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

RFC in progress
There is an RFC in progress on Talk:France which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. BilledMammal (talk) 22:57, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Saint George's cross 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
There's no mention that before using Saint Michel's cross during the 100YW (white cross on a blue background), France used Saint George's cross during the crusades (red cross on a white background, the current English flag) while England used the opposite (white cross on red background).

Also at the beginning of the 100YW, both blue and red background were used but ultimately only the blue background remained. Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 12:05, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Bourbon Restoration flag vs royal standard use
I've seen some conflict from mostly unsourced explanations about the use of flags during the Bourbon Restoration, particularly for military use. The assertion is that the all-white flag would be used by ships, while white with the royal Bourbon shield-and-crest would be flown when the monarch (or other royal?) is on board the ship. This may also be a similar practice for armies carrying the flag. This is important to get down especially for military history articles, which use flags in their sidebars. Currently all such flags except the naval display the royal standard in some form. If anyone can lend more clarity to the issue it would be appreciated. SamuelRiv (talk) 16:04, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

French Flag with Coat of Arms
Does this flag, the French flag with the ciat of arms on it have a place to go with it? --Averan Republic (talk) 20:46, 8 July 2022 (UTC)