Talk:Forrest J Ackerman

Clifton's Cafeteria
I believe that "the now legendary Clifton’s Cafeteria Science Fiction Club" is the same as the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, which Ackerman was a founding member of and which met at Clifton's Cafeteria during the late 1930s. Technically, it was the Los Angeles Science Fiction League (or the Los Angeles chapter of the Science Fiction League) from 1934 to 1940, when it voted to secede from the SFL and become an independent club.

Ackerman has told me personally that his middle name is James but that he prefers to use the initial J only without a period.75.25.28.114 15:26, 9 September 2007 (UTC)Fred Patten

Fred is correct. There was no "Clifton's Cafeteria Science Fiction Club," at least by that name. It was, as said, the Los Angeles chapter of The Science Fiction League, which became LASFS/Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society. It still meets every Thursday night, but now in its own clubhouse. In THE SCI-FI GUYS DVD, someone erroneously identifies the club as "The Rocket Society," but that's incorrect, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill Warren 76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:12, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

"J" or "J."?
I have a signed "foto" of 4E and I, which he was asked to sign to "James", as I have a bunch signed by him to "Jim" or "Jimmy". He autographed it "To James, Forrest James Ackermonster". I am the co-author of the photographic book tour of his Ackermansion, HOUSE OF ACKERMAN (Midnight Marquee Press June 2010 by Al Astrella and James Greene),which has a foreword by Forry, afterward by his assistant Joe Moe, and introduction by John Landis. In our preface, by filmmaker Paul Davids (Roswell UFO and Sci-Fi Boys are among his works) Davids tells of winning the bids for Forry's personal portraits and papers at the Profiles in Hollywood auction. Among them was Forry's birth certificate. It recorded his middle name as James and his first name as Forest (one "r"). He always left the dot out of "J" which was typical of his wordplay and long time disdain for the King's English and its unnecessary letters and punctuation. However, probably due to some publishers being unaware of his preference, occasionally the period would pop up, as on the covers and interior of A.E. Van Vogt's short story collections "Monsters" and "Science Fiction Monsters" which FJA (no periods) edited and wrote introductions for. Among my small collection of former Ackermansion items is a poster-sized cartoon devil drawn by one of 4E's friends that says: "There is NO(underlined) dot behind the "J" in F.J Ackerman! ("It turned green and fell off", says the devil.) Ackermonster (talk) 08:24, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I might be wrong, but I think Ackerman's middle name is just "j", without the period (same as "Harry S Truman"). Will try to confirm before messing with redirects, etc.


 * The above is correct, 4sj's middle name is J with no period, and someone should fix the redirects (I don't know how).


 * I believe his middle name is James, but he goes by "Forrest J Ackerman", no period. If I (or someone else) gets a positive answer on which this should be, I'll be happy to move the article and fix the redirects. (By the way, Truman himself, although he had several quips about his nameless middle initial, used a period in his signature, as discussed in the "Truman's middle initial" section of his Wikipedia article.) &mdash; Jeff Q 09:28, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Some smarty-pants editor decided that Wikipedia's punctuation style trumps Forry's wishes — now what? Lars T. (talk) 23:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

No, Forry's middle name was neither J with a period nor J without a period. It was James. As Fred Patten says above, he simply decided not to use his middle name in its entirety, just the first letter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill Warren 76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Mr Warren's comment above is correct, Ackerman's middle name was James. He personally told me (excuse the tautology but it's for emphasis), "I thought the 'ames' was too ordinary, so I just used the J." Alex Paige (talk) 06:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

This doesnt appear conclusive yet. The lack of a period is very odd; I'd like to know there is a very good reason for it. Are there any other "Forrest Ackerman" worth mentioning? If we cant work it out, I think we should move the page name to Forrest Ackerman (no J, no J.) because it is simpler. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:22, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It was a personal affectation of Forry's, documented for over 50 years, to be known as Forrest J Ackerman (no period). We should not move the article to any form without the J because the J was part of the name by which he was known worldwide for over half a century. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  13:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * How you can say "this doesn't appear conclusive yet" is beyond me. Consult any reputable science fiction enyclopedia or any of the numerous works authored by Forrest J Ackerman which include anthologies, 190+ issues of Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine, 137 paperback editions of Perry Rhodan published by Ace Books etc. All of which credit him as "Forrest J Ackerman" without the period. That was the name he used professionally and by which he is known. He is not known as "Forrest Ackerman" or "Forrest J. Ackerman". What more conclusive evidence would be required? Referring to him as "Forrest Ackerman" may be simpler but it is (1) inaccurate and (2) not the way in which he referred to himself. Should we also amend the entry for "George W. Bush" to "George Bush Jr" because it is simpler? Alex Paige (talk) 00:54, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * As for the reason for it: it goes back to the 1930s, when science fiction fans were trying to "futurize" spellings and abbreviations. Forry would often spell his name as "4e" for that reason. Words like "catalogue" and "thought" would be spelled as "catalog" and "thot" on the assumption that in the future the "-ue" endings would become obsolete. By the same reasoning, it was considered that periods after middle initials would be considered obsolete, in exactly the same manner in which punctuation has evolved to remove extraneous commas in journalism, for example at the end of subordinate clauses. Alex Paige (talk) 01:01, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

It is amusing to observe that the page for 4e in Esperanto uses the period. (It's a very short article, too. Needs lengthening.) I'm not an Esperantist (like many, I can read the stuff, but not write it) so I'm not going to try to correct the page, but with Forrest having been an Esperantist himself, one would think that one or two of the remaining living Esperantists would take the trouble to improve it Snezzy (talk) 09:44, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of Esperantists out here, some of us also English-speakers. Forry was not consistent in using the period-free J in Esperanto, so the period remains in that article. As to improving the article: Forry was more famous as an Esperantist outside the movement than inside; thus, the number of Esperanto-language sources available is much smaller (outside of some old and incredibly rare Esperanto-language fanzines). -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  22:41, 1 August 2010 (UTC) (who did a couple of panels at cons with him)

Jan. 12, 2006 Copy Edits
I made some copy edit on Jan. 12 (UTC). In addition to the usual link work, I edited some sentences for flow and to reduce excess verbiage: many sentences were basically running lists. I removed two sentences about actors he knew and writers he corresponded with, since that is not really notable or important, given that his stature is large enough that such acquaintances and correspondence is completely expected and unsurprising.

Mentor to directors: I almost removed the claim that "he served as a mentor" to a large list of famous film directors, and I still think we should remove it. In the interim, I have put a citation-needed tag on it. I think the claim is an exaggeration, both in the number of directors and in the degree of influence, since "mentor" implies roles of teacher and close associate and also implied a great deal of influence.

First Hugo: I changed that to first Hugo for best fan writer.

Perry Rhodan series: I reduced the verbiage and removed the non-neutral-PoV (nNPoV) "unfortunately".

Appearances: Merged redundant material from above into this section and reduced verbiage ("e.g.").

See also section: The lists are not specifically related to Ackerman so I removed the section.

In summary, I think the article as I found it had nNPoV over-awed fan cruft in it that I tried to eliminate. Hu 01:37, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Forry received the first award given at a World Science Fiction Convention, but it was before they were termed the Hugos. And the award was for "No. One Fan Personality" of the previous year, not for writing. The award was correctly but RETROACTIVELY called a Hugo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill Warren76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

"Mr Science Fiction" citation request
As a 52-y-o SF fan myself I have long known this, but stretching out my right arm to pick up Clute & Nicholls's xxxvi + 1,370-page The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction (Orbit, London 1993) and leafing to the entry (by Malcolm J Edwards and John Clute) for Ackerman, Forrest James on pp 3-4, I find:
 * '. . . as early as 1932 served as associate editor of The Time Traveller, the first fanzine. For many decades thereafter he wrote stories and articles prolifically for fan journals - using his own name and a wide variety of elaborate pseudonyms . . . - and becoming known in fan circles as "Mr Science Fiction"; he won . . .'

I hope this is sufficiently authoritative confirmation of this minor matter. Apologies for lacking the wiki-fu to edit and add references myself.

Sadly, as I write the breaking news is that Forry is very ill, so this article may need further updating soon; I am sure many others will be far more qualified than I. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 22:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not a particularly experienced editor, either, but I did my best to add a reference to this sad news in an appropriate place. --Happypete (talk) 02:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Reports of death
A false report of Forry's death has come out of England as of approximately 9 p.m. Eastern Time (US), Thursday, November 6. An accurate source of his health can be found at the Classic Horror Film Board. Many people at that board know Forry and see him often. If there is any change in his condition, that board will have the correct information as soon, if not sooner, than the general press. Please consult that before posting anything about Forry's death. — Walloon (talk) 03:44, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

His death is reported at http://www.locusmag.com. Because of the preceding comment I have not updated the article. Thiesen (talk) 05:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem with citing Locus as a source is that Locus cited Wikipedia as it's source. This leads to circular reasoning.  I reverted out the incorrect report based on info from Alex Paige, who seems to be in close contact with Forry's caregivers. (LASFS Webmaster) Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 01:05, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * One of the other edits mentioning his death appears to have come from Laurie D. T. Mann, who not only runs the Dead People Server, but is sufficiently well-connected in Fandom to have access to accurate sources --Ray Radlein (talk) 05:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, edit wars are a large part of why I hardly ever spend time here any more, and he'll still presumably be just as dead tomorrow (although if anyone could arise from beyond the grave, it would be Forry), so despite the fact that Locus is absolutely a sufficient source for a cite under WP's standards, I'll just leave it alone as well for now. I've put follow-up queries in with various fannish sources, and we'll see if new information develops. --Ray Radlein (talk) 06:20, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No source is sufficient if it incorrectly reports someone's death. — Walloon (talk) 13:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Email from: Alex Paige -- Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:15:29 +1100:


 * "I'm just sending out a group email to let you know that the reports of Forrest J Ackerman's death which are currently circulating are incorrect. / Here's the facts: Mr Ackerman is suffering from congestive heart failure and pneumonia and has elected not to undergo any further treatment or medication. He is resting comfortably at home surrounded by close friends and is lucid though weak. He is not deceased. / An erroneous report earlier today on the British Fantasy Society website has now been picked up by both Wikipedia and, worse yet, Locus Online which has posted an obituary. Nobody seems to bother to check sources anymore. / Corrections have been sent out to all concerned (the wiki entry has been amended) but of course neither the BFS site nor Locus has been amended as yet. / Can I respectfully ask that people wait for official notification of Forry's condition from his people before publishing any premature reports of his shuffling off this mortal coil. [...] / I've been in contact with the webstaffer [correction] of LASFS - surely the most appropriate site to keep up to date as Forry was a founding member - and she will be supplied with the most up to date news, so may I respectfully suggest that you check there for details."


 * Note that this is dated a day after the supposed death report. The LASFS site is here and the current Ackerman news thread is here. DeafMan (talk) 09:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Locus have now said their report was premature. Molotron (talk) 15:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

British Fantasy Society has also now issued a retraction. I am in regular contact with Forry's primary carer Joe Moe and will update Wikipedia with major changes in Mr Ackerman's health status as soon as it comes to hand. Alex Paige (talk) 02:58, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

It's on the AP newswires now, dammit. Ĝis la revido, kara samideano! -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  20:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Regrettably, death confirmed as occuring at 11.58pm Thursday December 4 at his home in Los Angeles.Alex Paige (talk) 22:30, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Gross Understatement
I just stopped to read this entry after hearing of Mr. Ackerman's passing and was struck by what a gross understatement, to say the least, is contained in the opening sentence. "Forrest J Ackerman (November 24, 1916 - December 4, 2008)[1] was an American collector of science fiction books and movie memorabilia and a science fiction fan." Forry Ackerman was certainly both a collector and fan, but he was so incredibly much more to American science fiction - a writer, an actor (albeit bit roles), a literary agent, and probably the foremost promoter of the genre throughout the 20th century. I'm hopeful that, in the course of folks looking at this over the next few days, that someone will craft an appropriate opening sentence that suitably acknowledges the gentleman's contributions to the field.Irish Melkite (talk) 21:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, Forry Ackerman did more in his lifetime to promote science fiction, fantasy and horror than anyone else living or dead has ever managed.Alex Paige (talk) 12:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Could someone add to FJA's page for me?
Hi, I can't access the FJA page because it's semi-protected and I'm new to Wikipedia. But I'd like to have an award added to FJ's list..

In 1999, he was awarded the very first Mangled Skyscraper Award by the Godzilla Society of North America at their annual G-FEST.

To whoever posts this, thanks. Muklapta (talk) 06:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)Muklapta


 * Sorry, no. Non-notable award by non-notable organization. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  20:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The power
Someone needs to remove THE POWER from the list of films in which Forry appears. He did shoot a scene for that George Pal production, but it never made it into the final print. Pal gave the footage to Forry, and it "lived" in his refrigerator for years.==Bill Warren —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Bill Warren76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This was done. -- John Vandenberg (chat) 12:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Other Magazines by Ackerman
Ackerman created and edited three other magazines, all relatively short lived: Spacemen, which was dedicated to science fiction, Screen Thrills Illustrated, which was dedicated to movie serials and other adventure movies, and Favorite Westerns of Filmland (retitled Wildest Westerns with issue #3). The first issue of Spacemen has a September 1961 cover date, the first issue of Screen Thrills Illustrated was published with a June 1962 cover date, and the first issue of Favorite Westerns of Filmland has a May 1960 cover date.

References:

1. http://www.moviemags.com/main.php?title=SPACEMEN&etos=1961. Accessed on 2/19/2010.

2. http://www.moviemags.com/main.php?title=SCREEN%20THRILLS%20ILLUSTRATED&etos=1962. Accessed on 2/19/2010.

3. http://www.moviemags.com/main.php?title=FAVORITE%20WESTERNS%20OF%20FILMLAND&etos=%. Accessed on 2/19/2010.

--Zoetmb (talk) 04:38, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Was Ackerman really the "creator and editor" of all three of these titles? The above referenced pages at moviemags.com only identify them as Warren magazines.  Harvey Kurtzman was the editor of Favorite Westerns, according to "The Warren Companion" (TwoMorrows Publishing, 2001, pg. 224).  Can someone confirm Ackerman's involvement before this data is considered for the main entry? The News Hound 07:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My clippings from Spacemen list Forrest J. Ackerman as editor. My copies of Spacemen Apr 1962 Vol 1 No 3, and Oct 1962, Vol 2 No 1, lists Forrest J. Ackerman as "editor-in-orbit and writer to the stars" and James Warren as "interstellar publisher". The paper, fonts, artwork, puns, all match Famous Mosters of Filmland with the Ackerman touch over all. --Naaman Brown (talk) 18:52, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps more explicitly, there was Forrest J Ackerman's Monsterland that ran for about a year and a half. Forry was the explicit, credited editor of that one. I've been somewhat baffled to find it entirely unacknowledged anywhere I can see on Wikipedia FangsFirst (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

biography
fyi -- Forry: The Life of Forrest J Ackerman by Deborah Painter

Hardcover: 224 pages Publisher: McFarland (November 15, 2010) Language: English ISBN 9780786448845

69.111.194.167 (talk) 18:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Forrest Clark Ackerman???
Folks, I am aware that for a good number of years, Forry's real name has been thought to be Forrest J (without a period) Ackerman or Forrest James Ackerman. However, I have been reading a fascinating full length biography called Forry by Deborah Painter. In Ms. Painter's book, Forry's birth name was given as Forrest Clark Ackerman. That really blew my mind. Shouldn't we revise this article to correct his birth name? If it is correct that Forry's name is really Forrest Clark Ackerman, could anyone explain why his name was changed to Forrest J (without a period) Ackerman? I am really interested in what others have to say about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.6.240.34 (talk) 17:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Below is something I just picked up from a website http://efanzines.com/AOY/AOY-13.htm. It sez:

Since Ackerman has drifted away from fandom, lots of us forget that he never liked to have a period placed after his middle initial. In the July, 1938 Imagination, he told something about his middle initial troubles in this respect:

“FJA was born Forrest James Ackerman. The Sacramento records will reveal it. But he doesn’t feel it. He has an uncle named A; just A, no punctuation because it’s not an abbreviation for another name -- tho they always called him Ed. So A’s name seems to’ve become Ed instead of what it originally was. Vice versa, Ack has altered his to J (no dot.) Oddly enough, it might’ve been 4E’s lot to be known as Forrest C. Ackerman, for the first half of his life -- and early years of his stf career (if such it can be called) -- he is now appalled at the fact that he never knew...he thought his middle name was Clark! Everybody called him Clark. He scribbled his name that way at school. Explanation: he was named after a friend of the family, James Clarke.”

Wow...any thoughts on this??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.6.240.34 (talk) 19:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

HIS HIGH SCHOOL?
Does anyone know what high school he attended. If he know Bradbury and Harryhausen, he must have gone to a high school in Los Angeles. I asked Wendayne once, but she wasn't very clear at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.250.67.148 (talk) 23:44, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

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Allegations of inappropriate behavior?
Would it be appropriate to add mention of this? At least one first-person incident is covered here, and it has gotten mention here and here as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.232.119 (talk) 17:58, 26 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I think we should, but am not sure how much detail to give or how to cite. Thoughts? Bookgrrl holler/ lookee here  20:28, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

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Sexual harassment, predatory behavior
Several highly credible allegations have been made of inappropriate (to say the least) behavior on Ackerman's part, in various online magazines and forums. I believe this needs to be reflected in the article. See for example https://buzzdixon.com/home/2018/2/11/perverts-of-geekdom and https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2018/02/06/forry-too/  I believe this should be reflected in the article, yes? 128.230.232.119 (talk) 15:08, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This has come up a few times before. Can you cite the "online magazines" that discuss this, specifically the ones that comply with the reliable sources guideline?  The problem in the past - and with the two links above - is that they're blogs.  All a blog proves is that someone on the Internet believed the allegations, but said allegations were originally posted on message boards and the like.  While Ackerman is dead and thus BLP doesn't apply, it's still true that the Wikipedia expectations for content alleging scandalous crimes is just about the strictest around.  It needs to be line-by-line cited from highly reliable, neutral sources that indicate that they've done some research and believe the allegations, rather than merely reporting on the existence of the allegations.
 * I recognize that it's very possible Ackerman doesn't deserve this deference, but this kind of strict policy is important. The problem is Wikipedia needs to distinguish between the cases where real allegations float around online and for the cases where there's some angry troll online who merely posts lots of allegations of impropriety; the solution is to mandate that someone reliable has bothered to investigate whether they're true or not.  And even then, it often needs to be attributed to the journalist directly if the allegations are spicy enough.  See Allen_Weinstein for an example where there was sufficient journalistic backing to discuss the posthumous allegations.  SnowFire (talk) 16:54, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, I see what you're saying. Hm.  What about first-person accounts from someone who personally experienced said behavior, would that suffice?  Or citation from an archive that holds item(s) that support the allegations?  While "due diligence" is important, I think (esp in cases like this) it's also important not to downplay the information simply because there's no "official" report, or because the person in question isn't important enough to warrant mainstream media investigation, you know? 128.230.232.119 (talk) 21:05, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, the easiest way would be for if a journalist interviewed the person offering the first-hand accounts. Technically, we do have WP:ORTS for things like submitted testimonials, but I don't think that's really appropriate here - that's for more self-avowal things by the notable party themselves.
 * I think what you describe is a good policy for life-in-general, just Wikipedia has somewhat stricter standards, in the same way you have to be more careful what you say if you publish a book vs. just chatter with friends & co-workers. SnowFire (talk) 05:09, 25 March 2023 (UTC)