Talk:Frasier/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Niles and Daphne

>>>Niles to Frasier "If less is more, just think how much more 'more' must be!" A classic.

Mention marriage of Niles and Daphne? --user:Daniel C. Boyer

That is soooooooooooooooooo much of a spoiler! Niles' unrequited lust for Daph was one of the main sources of comedy for the first 8 series or so. IN fact, changing the status quo was a VERY bold move, few sitcoms would have dared. Worth mentioning for that, put SEVERAL paragraphs after the warning, please! -- Tarquin 19:55 Oct 6, 2002 (UTC)

Is the fact that Niles and Daphne eventually start a relationship really a secret anymore?

PS: Niles did not have "unrequited lust for Daph". He had sexually desired her, but loved her more. Furthermore, "unrequited" suggests Daphne was not deserving of such devotion.

You're right I suppose, it's common knowledge.
It suggests nothing of the sort.
Adjective: unrequited
1. Not returned in kind Vague Rant 10:26, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
I removed all direct references to the last episode and large plot spoilers. In my opinion, we should not take for granted that certain information is known. I also believe that this is a reference page to the series, not a summary of the show's happenings, and therefore it is not appropriate for such information to be given. Cissi (Cissi 11:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC))

Regardless, I think its appropriate to put a spoiler warning. Some younger viewers (my brothers for one) have just recently begun to experience Frazier and Cheers. I'd like them to enjoy it fresh like I got to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.200.36.160 (talk) 01:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

dedication

I took the note back in, that "the last show is dedicated to David Angell". Hope its ok - if someone is 100% sure that it should be deleted - take it out again. I thought it belongs there since it's an often statet fact. Also there is a strange wording in the sentence about Niles' son: "in honor of the late David Angell". Since my english is not perfect I haven't changed it, can someone check if this is a typo? Or is it common to say "late" when a dead person is meant?--Thomas 16:03, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

That's right, "late" can be used to describe one who has passed away (sometimes only if they have recently passed away--depends whose dictionary you read). Vague Rant 10:26, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)

The full phrase was originally "Lately Deceased". Saxophobia 22:59, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

More Successful than Cheers

I'm concerned about this sentence appearing early on in the article. There's no corroboration for it, and it doesn't sound very NPOV (more like something a Frasier fan might say in an argument with a Cheers fan).

It's certainly interesting if true. Can we find something to back it up (viewing figures, quotes from critics, details of TV awards won?), reword it, and move it somewhere into the main article? PaulHammond 13:57, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

Well, Frasier won more Emmy Awards than Cheers, in fact, it has, as of this writing, won more Emmy awards than any other show on television EVER. It sold for a higher dollar figure into syndication than Cheers, so by two criteria, one could say, with proof, that Frasier is more successful than Cheers.


This opinion is considered by many, and worthy of addition in some form. (possibly including the fact that it is an opinion)

82.40.75.55 22:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Successful has no overall definition. If the statement is to be added, it should merely be based on criteria such as the above, emmy wins. An opinion, even those held by many, is not NPOV unless a source (such as a poll) is cited. TheHYPO 04:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks for confirmation

82.40.75.55 20:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

"It became even more successful than its parent show, a television first."

This quote is pretty provably untrue, that it was the first spinoff to outshine its original show. Besides each of the four Star Trek spinoffs being notably longer than the original, Family Matters ran 215 episodes from 1989 to 1997, which was a spinoff of Perfect Strangers, which ran for 150 episodes from 1986 to 1993. By the raw numbers in both cases there were shows that were longer lived than their parents, long before Frasier. I guess it could hinge on how you define "successful", but in terms of quantifiable facts it's a pretty easy to disprove claim. --Wingsandsword 06:45, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Additionally, both Cheers and Frasier ran for 11 seasons, and the writers force themselves to stop after a certain number :-) SmUX 23:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Run time

Run time - 30 minutes

That 30 minutes will be inclusive of commercials, since the programme is certainly not that long on non-commercial TV channels (where it lasts something more like ± 25 minutes). For the sake of accuracy, should we not be indicating the real length of programmes, exclusive of advertising breaks before, during, or after? -- Picapica 20:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I have edited it. The average run time was 22 minutes, but there are a few noted exceptions; the first episode, which was around 1.5-2 minutes longer than a standard episode, and "Three Dates and a Break up", which was a special 44 miunte episode. There were also a few hour long specials, which for the life of me I cannot remeber what they were.--Chardonnay 19:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I was woundering what type of comedy is used? Is it dry comedy?

Very much so.--Chardonnay 19:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think dry is the best word for it. 74.37.131.146 (talk) 10:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Most of the episodes, particularly the earlier ones, are based on farcical humour; the man entrances and exits, the lies&deception based on the social pretentions &c. but there are other episodes that are more traditionally sit-com based. I'd argue it to be mostly a farce though. Tony2Times (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

DVD article?

Anyone object to a Frasier DVDs article, as per The Simpsons DVDs? - Wezzo 20:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

This would be a great idea I think.

82.40.75.55 19:47, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Improper Italics

I noticed that the names of the people who played the characters are italicised, which by conventional rules and standards of grammar, should not be so. I'd be bold and change them myself but am pressed for time. 4.225.23.235 06:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


Lifetime Syndication

Unless I'm completely mistaken, it would be impossible for a show to begin a syndication run on February 29th, 2006. I was unable to find the actual start date of syndication. If anyone does find a more feasible date, please make sure to include it in this article.

---

The answer to your question is March 6. Click the following link for more information pertaining to the syndication => http://www.sitcomsonline.com/blog/2006/01/lifetime-edits-march-schedule-before.html

Region 2

Can anyone tell me if and, if so, when I can buy seasons 5 through to 11 on REGION 2 encoding (ie. Europe)?

82.40.75.55 10:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

You can't they haven't been released yet, there are supposed to be plans to release season 5 in region 2 by the end of 2006


Paramount have unfortunately delayed releasing Season 5 on region 2 until early 2007 :-(.

82.40.75.55 22:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


Although Paramount have not issued a release date for any region 2 DVD box sets, Season 5 is expected to appear in the 2007 catalogue of Paramount releases. This is what I have been told in a private correspondence with someone from Paramount Home Entertainment (UK), the company responsible for region 2 releases.

Brandybordeaux 13:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

AN APPEAL FOR SOURCES

The section stating that there will be no future reason 2 releases cites no sources at all. Could someone please confirm if this is the case.

82.40.75.55 20:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I have put a source from the internet stating a possible release date of region 2 (07/12/06), but I am not stating this as definate.

82.40.75.55 21:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

having obtaineed a further source from the BBFC, it can be assumed that Season 5 shall soon be released, and I have updated this page to reflect this update.

82.40.75.55 19:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Redirection?

Can anyone explain why a search for "Chopper Dave" redirects to Frasier? Tentonbricks 17:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

--

Chopper Dave was a member of the KACL radio team in the show. He presented the traffic reports from a helicopter.

lol he yelled all of the time because he was so used to the chopper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.200.36.160 (talk) 02:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Need help making episode lists

I need help finding out how to make episode lists to go at the side of pages such as the one used in Friends episode pages. I know at the top of the page there is a tag, but yeah... new to this. Little help?

greggykins 23:06, 08 June 2006 (GMT)

Replied on your user talk page. Icey 20:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Frasier Crane Day

During the credits of the Frasier Crane Day episode, where Frasier and Niles are trying to get to the Space Needle, it shows Kelsey Grammer during the real Frasier Crane Day in Seattle. It says that it took place on September 11, 1999. Is it celebrated annually, and if it is, did they change the day? 71.31.157.230 01:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It happened once. To celebrate Frasier reaching one hundred episodes. (unsigned)

Don't you mean 1997? It was September 11th 1997, not 1999. Exactly 4 years before 9/11 where David Angell (one of the creators) died.

John M character on Cheers

While technically accurate to describe his character as a pianist -- because he did play the piano. It is misleading.

His role was an advertising man. In fact, he was the worst ad man in the firm, and was only assigned to Cheers because Rebecca had a laughably low budget. Recall that the only song he played was the tune of "Old McDonald"

Fair enough, though your version is somewhat POV. I'll try to strike a middle ground. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Not to beat a dead horse on an outstanding entry, but I believe it would be even more accurate to describe his character as a jingle writer. user:Mikedover

Shakespeare?

"Frasier perhaps owes its biggest debt to the comedies of Shakespeare, whose misheard eavesdroppings, character misrepresentations, punning, and exquisite timing live in every aspect of the show."

To me it feels like this is not neutral point of view and, without a source citing that the writers actual attribute this to Shakespeare, is mearly one wiki-writer's personal opinion. I would delete it... Those qualitys are probably present in every sitcom since the beginning of television... TheHYPO 06:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree. Whilst it should be noted that Frasier uses this much more than other sitcoms, it is not the only one to do this, so should not be inserted in this guise

82.40.75.55 19:46, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Daphne's accent

I have to query this, having lived in Northern England all my life, it is distinctly a Boltonian accent, or at a push a distinct North Western English accent. I know as far as Americans and most other nationals are aware Northern accents are all much of a muchness. Its quite distinct to me, my mum's family are from Bolton, so I used to visit them at least once a week, so I can notice it. Just my two cents, your opinions please (and I know its a pedants point :)) DannyM 19:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

That isnt a Bolton accent. Im from Bolton, and I can understand how you may think it sounds similar, but her accent is more of a North Yorkshire accent, but still definately not Manchester. Sadly no actors on the show have accurately had a Manchester accent (her ex and brothers are Cockney, her brother Nigel seems to be an American Cockney/Ozzy Osbourne mix but not much English at all, let alone Mancunian! The closest seems to be her mother, who has an accent fluctuating between southern and Northern, but at least legitimately English! TR_Wolf
I disagree...the mother has the worst accent there, way over the top even for cockney (and I am from London, I know cockney when I hear it :-P)...Jane Leeves is probably the most Mancunian of them all although she doesn't sound like she is from Manchester. You wanna hear a Mancunian? Listen to this interview with Oasis...they were formed, born and play in Manchester. I'd say Jane Leeves gets pretty close, although she definitely has a unique screech added to it that used to get on my nerves before I really got into the show :-) SmUX 23:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

THAT IS the worst interview I have ever heard.68.200.36.160 (talk)Alex68.200.36.160 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 15:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I live in Scotland, and find all the northern accents similar, but also completly different!

Americans wouldn't be able to tell the difference, and I feel Daphne's accent is really unique.

82.40.75.55 20:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, but I wouldn't call it a Southern English accent, I think it's just an average Northern accent, I would say Gertrude (Daphne's mum) has a southern accent and her brothers seem to have Cockney accent. DannyM 20:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think these accents are the most important thing in a Wikipedia article. Now it seems to concentrate too much on it. --SM (talk) 16:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Halloween Episodes

In one year of Frasier, a holloween episode, the kids in Frasier building all were scared of Dr.Frasier Crane, because they thought he ate the brains of kids. One of the young boys, amongst the terrified children, reappeard the next year, in another Halloween episode, now living in Niles building, as the little boy getting revenge against Daphne's mother. Coincidence???? Or Error????.... It sure looks like the same little boy to me. Although, I do have to say, that for a show that ran as long as it did, it has very little continuity errors. Which is to be commended.

By the way, besides Fraiser, Donny, Dapne's ex-fiance, also appeared on Star Trek TNG, the episode, "Toy Man", or something to that nature.

It is the "same little boy", that's why...coincidence...with bit-parts, you do have actors playing more than one part. However, if you want to ignore that fact, consider that the boy and his family moved to Niles' building :-P SmUX 23:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The '97 Bordeaux

I just put a "citation needed" on the part that says During the first two seasons of Frasier, the writers famously attempted to fit the series' only punch line, 'the '97 Bordeaux', as many times as possible in one scene of dialogue. The record stands at 400 repetitions in just 3 minutes during a scene where Niles argues with a homeless man over the contents of his paperbag-concealed liquor..

I find no occurence at all of the word "Bordeaux" within the first two seasons by searching the transcripts [1] with my browser, and nothing like "the '97 Bordeaux" at all according to a google search of the site [2]. Could this simply be a hoax? Gee, I really have too much time on my hands. // E23 22:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Frasier began in 1993. What year would the '97 Bordeaux refer to? 1897? I'm no wine expert, but that feels like a far too old wine to be legitimate. TheHYPO 03:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I've removed this statement as it seem to be a hoax. // E23 10:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Revisions

Corrected the authors of the title song. Corrected the reference to Kirstie Alley. I know what went down. I was there. Colorados' Amendment 2 was anti gay so why not call it that. Other stuff that needs correcting I didn't get around to: Aaron Eckhardt was not in the finale. Never heard Laverne and Shirley were filmed on Stage 25. One of the creators here. Thanks to all who help out with this site.

Storyline / Running gags

The running gags section seemed a bit superfluous and general, so I took the liberty of deleting it. In order that the information that was in this section still be provided in the article, I revamped the 'storyline' section so that it was more of an overall summary. I also tried to incorporate the more significant running gags / themes into this section and deleted the 'running gags' section.--Joseph Q Publique 07:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Season 9 release - Word Choice

I changed the word choice here as it seemed to suggest that the DVD was already released whilst giving a future release date - an error in the tense. It now suggests that the DVD is yet to be released (as is the case). 82.40.75.55 15:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Is and Was

I'm changing "Frasier was" back to "Frasier is". A television show is a literary work, like a novel, film or play. Thus, reference to it must be done so in the literary present (there's been extensive discussion about this on The West Wing article, here.) M fic 07:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Frasier

This is still a proposal over here [3], and a Temporary page. its purpose is to create episodes for Frasier which are still not created (more than half the episodes have red links). And also to get images for each Frasier episode. Interested users should sign up there. --Agεθ020 (ΔT • ФC) 17:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section

"Niles Crane's whippet was named "Girl". In a nod towards Niles' profession as a psychiatrist, Girl required nerve medication. (Episode #67 "Chess Pains")"

was the medication not there to highlight the similarities between Maris and Girl?

Also, Fredrick's middle name was Gaylord???? vandalism?

Gcrossan 02:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

No, It actually is! See Season 10's "Star Mitsvah".71.7.137.46 21:13, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, ok. Any clarification on the Girl front? Was also looking at Frasier, Niles and Martin's middle names... they're all have Winslow as their middle name? Gcrossan 01:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Production Questions: Multiple-camera/single camera; laugh track/live audience

Could someone address (with citation, please :-) ) some of the following:

Is this a multiple-camera or single-camera sitcom.

Did it have a laugh track or was it ever filmed before a live audience.

Are outdoor sequences filmed in studio also (for example, season 3, Martin Does It His Way)?

Any other sitcom production related information would be appreciated.

Rearlgrant 05:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Most of that stuff you can get from "Behind the couch - The making of Frasier"...no to the laugh track, multiple camera, outdoor sequences outside (although I assume Cafe Nervosa is a set, but dunno)...and you'll find that "making-of" very interesting, I am sure :-P SmUX 23:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Cast

I have a problem with the information for David Hyde Pierce; Niles. It says that: The show was originally written with Frasier as an only child (references had already been made to this in Cheers, but one of the producers saw a headshot of Pierce and commented that he looked exactly like Kelsey Grammer did" So to me this is saying that the character was inspired by Hyde Pierce and probably wouldnt exist otherwise. But then it says: The second choice for the role of Niles was Peter MacNicol. Does this seem odd to anyone else? There are no references sited, so I think it needs greater clarification/references (which i cant do now as i have limited internet access at work) Soulnebula 03:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The information is incorrect. The show Frasier was originally written to have a brother for Frasier, I would assume someone else to add the comedy element envy. If you use Cheers references for truth, you'll find Marty's dead and you'll probably find Lillith ran away a long time ago. There's an "extra" on one of the DVDs that mentions the story behind Niles, and I also don't remember any mention of Peter MacNicol being one of the other people auditioning for the part. It is true that when they saw DHP they instantly knew he was Niles, but the thing is DHP didn't audition as such to get the part. Someone mentioned to someone else that they needed the brother, and the other guy said "I know the perfect guy". I'd watch the DVD again if I could be bothered :-P Remember, there's proof on the original series DVDs ("Behind the couch", the making-of available here...just so you know what the extra is called :-)) so people can watch to see but it's not as easily referenceable on wiki...I think original series DVDs and "right from the horses mouth" should be considered a reference though personally...the producers THEMSELVES say it :-) SmUX 23:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Christopher Lloyd

The "Christopher Lloyd" who wrote for Frasier is not the Christopher Lloyd we all know and love from movies like Back to the Future and Addams Family, it's THIS Christopher Lloyd...however, if you go to specific episodes of Frasier in wikipedia it'll link to the WRONG Christopher Lloyd.

I'm sure Doc Emmett Brown doesn't mind, but the poor guy who ACTUALLY wrote (or co-wrote in some cases) the episodes is being ignored...whoever it was that laid out the episodes individually one per page (which BTW, I REALLY hate, wikipedia is NOT Frasierpedia, there's free web hosts out there for in depth per-episode information, and if every show in existence had people doing that Wikipedia would have to bring in adverts to pay for hosting and bandwidth) can go and correct the mistake they made...easiest way is to go to [Christopher Lloyd]'s page and click "what links here" to find a list of all the stuff that links to him...the Frasier eps are suffixed "(Frasier)" so should be easy to find.

Yeah, I could do it...but I posted here and feel that's enough...not my mistake, and at least I did the work of looking up the facts and pointing out the error :-) SmUX 23:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. There weren't that many. Clarityfiend 02:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Frasier characters on The Simpsons

Sideshow Bob and his brother Cecil Terwilliger are slated to reappear in a future episode of The Simpsons, with Grammer and Hyde Pierce reprising their respective roles and John Mahoney as their father.

Shouldn't there be some kind of source for this assertion? Roger 15:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Boon

Aside from a talk page section about some prior vandalism, I can't find any references to catchphrases here. Which is odd, because in season 9 Frasier seems to say the word "boon" in virtually every episode. It seems as though the writers tried to force it in, if anyone owns any books about the show if there is a citation for that I'd like to see it added for completeness. -MichiganCharms 14:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Spinoff record

I took this out because it contradicts itself:

  • "This series is the third most successful spin-off of another series (after The Simpsons and Knots Landing) in terms of episodes; its 265 narrowly beats The Jeffersons' 253. Although technically The Simpsons is not a spinoff but was rather conceptualized on one show and turned into another." Clarityfiend 22:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Looking for help writing an article about the spin-offs and crossovers of this series

I am writing an article about all of the series which are in the same shared reality as this one through spin-offs and crossovers. I could use a little help expanding the article since it is currently extremely dense and a bit jumbled with some sentence structures being extremely repetitive. I would like to be able to put this article into article space soon. Any and all help in writing the article would be appreciated, even a comment or two on the talk page would help. Please give it a read through, also please do not comment here since I do not have all of the series on my watch list. - LA @ 16:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

There was only a brief rumour of a possible spin off being discussed about 3 or 4 years ago. Nothing came of it and it's now unlikely that it will happen. it certainly isn't enough for an article, barely enough for a brief mention in this article. --neonwhite user page talk 17:40, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


Merge from Café Nervosa

see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Café Nervosa --victor falk 14:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Although that AfD was closed as no consensus, even most of the keep voters seemed to feel merging was an acceptable outcome. The cafe has no real world notability outside of the series, so I say Merge. Beeblbrox (talk)
  • Keep, No Merge. It's pretty much consistent with how this is dealt with, with other articles. Merging it muddies the focus. Proxy User (talk) 06:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep, No Merge. I agree. Other articles on Wikipedia about fictional places are separate from the actual show, such as Monk's Cafe. Merging would single this one out. Msw1002 (talk) 17:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep as is, No Merging. I think they should be kept seperate. Rivertown (talk) 01:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge While I agree with what has already been said, I feel it should be merged because it really belongs in the article. Msw1002 makes a good point, but the article on Café Nervosa is simply not as in-depth as, for instance, Monk's Cafe. If Café Nervosa was about an article about a real location, and in its present state, it would be considered a stub and possibly up for deletion. It should be merged, but edited to trim out unnecessary info so it does not take up too much from this article's main focus. Nitroblu (talk) 08:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose This article is sizable as it is. Café Nervosa page seems a valid spinout. --neon white talk 13:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge Cafe Nervosa is little more than a stub; it could be cut down slightly and made a section of this page, which is 33kb--not that big, really. Carl.bunderson (talk) 22:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge Cafe Nervosa is nothing more than a setting in a television sitcom. Should we have a seperate wikipedia article for Frasier's apartment, as well? Ghost109 (talk) 23:26, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Heh, if you look at the Frasier template at the bottom of the page, it seems we used to. But it redirects to Frasier now. :p Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Haha, you're right! But just as that was deleted, I believe the Cafe Nervosa article should be deleted. Ghost109 (talk) 21:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I certainly agree. In fact, I'd say its precedent! Carl.bunderson (talk) 23:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge, but just a little bit. There's just not that much worth saying about it. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Don't Merge, the Café Nervosa article is sizeable and is notable.92.3.174.163 (talk) 12:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Don't Merge. I agree with La vita è dolce.Brainiac36 17:33, 20

August 2008 (UTC)

Tell me exactly how much notability Cafe Nervosa has. Just because it's a setting in a show doesn't mean it automatically has enough notability for it's own Wikipedia article. Ghost109 (talk) 00:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
With all due respect, you seem to have the typical mind-set in thinking "the more articles on Wikipedia the better." You tried to keep Elliot Bay Towers around as well even though that had little notability. 24.184.206.83 (talk) 16:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge It isn't very important, is a short article, and could be merged into a larger article on settings in the show "Frasier" or a section on the main "Frasier" page regarding the settings of the show.

Richard E. Grant

is it fair to state that Richard E. Grant is not English? Granted, he was born in Swaziland; but his parents were British, he is a British citizen, and his accent is identifiably English; his Wikipedia entry describes him as a British actor. John McCain was born in Panama, but that doesn't make him a Panamanian, does it? AuntFlo (talk) 08:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted that he is British, which does make him closer to home than Swaziland, however Robbie Coltrane is British too but it doesn't necessarily make him English. Tony2Times (talk) 12:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

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