Talk:Geoffrey de Muschamp

DNB...
Why the hell do we want to even mention the outdated old DNB entry? What is the point? We have the much newer ODNB used as a source... the old DNB has been superceeded and we use the further reading section for information that is useful and expands on what is in the article - things like online links to works by the subject or detailed treatments of minutiae that is too much detail for an encyclopedia entry. It isn't to list every old outdated source that once existed for a subject. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:35, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Because the ODNB is behind a paywall, I am aware that UK public library members have access, but the vast majority of the world's population are not members of a UK library.Wayne Jayes (talk) 13:17, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * that doesn’t address the issue that it’s seriously out of date. We should not be recommending it...outdated sources help the readers not at all. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:44, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't have accesss to the ONDB so I can't tell what information about a 12th century person is outdated in his DNB article. I'd be grateful for a few examples please.Wayne Jayes (talk) 14:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Well "was probably a member of the family of Muschamp, barons by tenure of Wallovere in Northumberland (Nicolas, p. 343)" in the old DNB is no longer in the ODNB ... so clearly that information is not considered correct. Further, the ODNB is more nuanced in the treatment of the problem arising from Geoffrey, the illegitimate son of Henry II, use of Henry II's seal to secure Muschamp's archdeaconry - pointing out that in 1194 Muschamp and the other Geoffrey had fallen out so that was likely the reason for the deprivation of office, not the fact of the use of the seal after the king's death to make the appointment. The ODNB says that his election to Coventry was owing almost entirely to the royal power .. rather than the implication in the DNB that it was as much owing to Hubert Walter. The ODNB also points out that he was present at a legatine council, although he does not seem to have taken any leading role in the meeting. Nor is "According to Gervase (ii. 100) he was one of the bishops who fled from England in 1207." in the ODNB. (If you think about this, it can't be right because he died and was buried in Lichfield in 1208... so it makes no sense he would have gone into exile in 1207) And the ODNB is unequivocal that he was buried at Lichfield Cathedral. Nor is the bit about the endowing the cathedral with annual gift for beer in the ODNB. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:23, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, this kind of info should at least be on the talk page, as it is now, or perhaps some foot note in the main article. Wayne Jayes (talk) 06:16, 10 September 2018 (UTC)