Talk:Great Pyramid of Giza

When was the record height surpassed?
When did the Great Pyramid of Giza cease to be the tallest building in the world? According to the infobox on this page, it was surpassed by Lincoln Cathedral in 1311. But where does this idea come from? On the Lincoln Cathedral page, any existing sources are weak, typically either coming from news articles (leading me to fears of WP:CITOGENESIS) or crappy trade books. I previously raised this issue in a talk page thread back in November 2020, to no resolution. I added a dubious tag in December 2020 that removed the following April, though that editor offered no source or resolution. I have since added it back.  Tkbrett  (✉) 02:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There is nothing dubious about this statement regarding Lincoln Cathedral holding the title of the worlds tallest building. It is well recorded in texts of the period and subsequently. Lincoln cathedral was completed in 1311 with a spire on the central tower that gave it a total height of 525 feet. It is unknown if the builders knew they had surpassed the height of the great pyramid of Giza, but we were later able to show this was the case. The cathedral surpassed the height of the great pyramid of Giza by 44 feet from its original height of 481 feet. The spire was destroyed in a storm in 1548 and not rebuilt. This Lincoln cathedral held the title of the world’s tallest building for 237 years. The title was then reclaimed by the great pyramid of Giza, which held it until the completion of the Eiffel Tower in 1884. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.179.9.148 (talk) 09:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "It is well recorded in texts of the period and subsequently." Then I'm sure you'll have no problem finding good sources to post here.  Tkbrett  (✉) 19:26, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * (“Thus”?)
 * The Great Pyramid of Giza never regained the top spot. By the time Lincoln’s spire collapsed, other European cathedrals were already taller than the Great Pyramid. Lincoln remained tallest structure “of all time” until 1884, and tallest building of all time till 1890. The Old Font (talk) 07:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Being a historian myself, I had a quick look in contemporary 14th and 15th century sources, but could not find any evidence for the 525 feet claim for Lincoln Cathedral. First of all there are many contradictions in dating the spires and also on when the central tower spire was destroyed. (1541, 1547, 1548). I would rate the 525 claim "very unlikely" at best. But let's start from the very accurate work by A.F. Kendrick in 1898 titled 'The Cathedral Church of Lincoln' : "The tall spire of timber, covered with lead, which originally crowned this tower reached an altitude, it is said, of 525 feet; but this is doubtful."
 * On the height of the spires, it was noted: The height of these timber spires was 89 feet from the base to the ball, and another 12 feet to the top of the vane.. The central tower is claimed to be 271 feet, but this is from the top of the corner pinnacles. So the actual base from which the spire was built is more like 225 feet. This means the claim here is that spire of the central tower, built around 1311, was 300 feet in height (525ft=225ft+300ft). That is simply a preposterous claim, knowing the western tower spires (who survived 200 more years were 89 feet from base to the ball). 2001:1C02:1C04:CD00:6DF8:19F5:D35F:435C (talk) 11:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

List_of_tallest_structures_built_before_the_20th_century gives an overview over the tallest buildings in history with their sizes and completion dates. -- Syzygy (talk) 13:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * All of which is unsourced.  Tkbrett  (✉) 15:36, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Blowtorch visit inside the great Pyramid in 1698
For those interested in the history of the Pyramids I might recommend this book which was published in 1698. It was written by Dutch traveller Cornelis de Bruyn which visited the Pyramids and wrote a whole chapter about them, describing them in detail. He even takes a guided tour inside the great pyramid carrying a blowtorch and described its central hallway and more.

I also read contrasting information regarding the casting, as at one point he writes:

"I will only speak of the greatest, as well as the most remarkable, because the other two – although the boldest of the two does not have to yield much to the one considered the greatest (which indeed she is, although some seem to doubt it) – are enclosed and cannot be climbed upon, so there is not much to say about them."

Which would make one think the casting was largely intact. However in his sketch he draws 2 pyramids which both appear worn and their casting not intact:



— Preceding unsigned comment added by BoschA (talk • contribs) 08:35, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Great pyramid is a water ram pump
Research has been undertaken that the Gt pyramid is a ram pump. Well two, one under the ground and one inside the pyramid. Scale mock-ups have been built proving the concept. No mention of this. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 14:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)


 * What's your source? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:54, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Built using canal locks
Theories about construction are that the stones blocks were lifted using canal locks rising up one side one tier of stones at a time. No mention of it. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 14:32, 5 May 2024 (UTC)


 * What's your source? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:54, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * A number of vids on this channel:
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMCyffA7Yc&lc=UgzZYeRqBnsxYT26Zh14AaABAg.A30C5k9r5hfA34rsACxKRj
 * Steven Myers has written a number of books on the water theory.
 * proof of concept that the Gt pyramid was ram pump:
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBIwt7L3OA
 * That is just one. There are a few about.
 * Hydro engineers looked at the drawings seeing a ram pump, while archaeologists didn't have clue what a ram pump was. The smaller pyramids clearly had men hauling stones up some sort of ramp. Not so on the Gt.pyramid.
 * https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f7da96f2db6ac2fa3a4d8956e8dd35e6 143.58.173.57 (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This is pointless. YouTube is generally not a reliable source nor are books written by authors who couldn't even get them published.  Doug Weller  talk 13:36, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That the Gt.pyramid was ram pump is clearly proven. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 14:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You must not make things up. Book have been published on the ram pump.
 * https://www.amazon.com/dp/1449916155/ 143.58.173.57 (talk) 14:18, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Selfpublished books such as this are largely not acceptable as sources. Hypnôs (talk) 15:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 'largely!' Many self publish as they make more money.  It is also beneficial in a market that will not sell many books. And the book can be avaialable  for ever if on kindle and print on demand.
 * Also another book on the hydro aspect. This is by a make money publisher. ....
 * https://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Pyramids-Egypt-Really-Built/dp/1846247349/
 * Also that the Gt.pyramid was a ram pump, which went over your heads. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 15:52, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The GT.pyramid was built first as ram pump, not a tomb. It also served to pump water up to build the other two Giza pyramids. 2A01:4B00:BB18:A600:E738:4C0D:38F4:6829 (talk) 16:26, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Are you the same editor as IP143.58.173.57? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:28, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Martinevans123 definitely, both edited at this article and Merseyrail. Doug Weller  talk 19:25, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Seems to fall under WP:Fringe. Is this a hypothesis that was published in a reputable journal? Hypnôs (talk) 16:44, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The article says the Gt.pyramid was a tomb. Nothing indicates at all it was - pure theory. Others were tombs, but not the Great. One thing is clear the Gt.pyramid was a ram pump and proven to work as a ram pump. When modeled being scaled down it worked.
 * A lot of the article is POV writing the POV as fact. Most should be removed, or stated it is only theory. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 09:11, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Neither reliably published. The Book Guild has what they call a Partnership Program where the costs are shared. We don’t even have an article on it. Read WP:RS before posting again herr please. Doug Weller  talk 19:19, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Does the Great pyramid act as ram pump? Yes.
 * The rest of what and how the Great pyramid is, is all theory or POV.
 * All your 'reliable' sources are not 100% factual. A lot of guessing. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 09:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * published is published. End of. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 09:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * All your 'reliable' sources are not 100% factual. A lot of guessing. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 09:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * published is published. End of. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 09:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Far too much POV in article
Many of the theories are presented as fact. An example is that the pyramid was a tomb, when no such firm evidence exists. This needs rewriting to emphasize they are only theories (more like POV), not theories presented as fact. 143.58.173.57 (talk) 10:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Most pyramids were tombs, weren't they? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * A robbed sarcophagus, typical burial of friends, relatives etc around the pyramid, etc. That's sufficient. Doug Weller  talk 12:13, 18 June 2024 (UTC)