Talk:Great Recession/Archive 5

Comparisons with Great Depression section
This section seems more than a little off to me for three reasons: -the vast majority of the section is comparing the Great Recession to the recessions in the early 80's -there are no cited sources for the numbers, and comparing them with FRED data I'm not 100% convinced of their acccuracy -at the end, it says the housing sector is the only thing that was clearly hit harder in the Great Recession than in the early 80's, but neglects to mention GDP, which was hit significantly harder (in terms of percent fall from peak) in the Great Recession

Just thought I'd point all this out. Thanks.

130.58.196.180 (talk) 05:01, 11 December 2013 (UTC)Noah


 * This section also does not say to which country the statistics relate. Surprise - there is more than one country in the world. 92.29.126.6 (talk) 10:14, 22 January 2014 (UTC)


 * As a first step, I am creating a new section for the comparison with the Early 1980s recession. I will also try to add an introductory sentence for this new section that will make it clear that the comparison only applies to the USA.  As far as the accuracy of the figures, there is an earlier section on this talk page that addresses this.My Gussie (talk) 00:16, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Great Recession?
It's still the global financial crisis and it aint over folks --124.186.241.51 (talk) 10:31, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * whatever that is below, if you can't explain it in simple English then it's just referencing spam and I can ignore it. It seems ridiculous that there isn't a single reference to the common term GFC in the whole of wikipedia. --124.186.241.51 (talk) 10:41, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It is not easy to contribute to this article because according to the current introduction it doesn't seem to be clear if this is about the first decade of the 2000's or the subprime crisis. Is this name really common? I never heard it in this context.--EconomicsEconomics (talk) 15:24, 21 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Various editors brought up the name issue in the past. The "great recession" name is ridiculous, but until some fresh voices get further momentum for a title change, we'll be stuck with the current title. --2601:9:7E00:5D7:A456:5F6D:DCA4:ECA0 (talk) 20:01, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The whole idea of a recession is pretty ridiculous, so if there's a great one (even reportedly), it should have a corny title, I think. Besides, recession rhymes with depression. Rhyming allusions cheer people up in uncertain times. Blast from the past! Escape from the ape! So on and so forth! Let's not rob them of that small joy. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:06, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Tag
I oppose this re-adding of this tag. The content on this article is not just about the United States. There are entire sections in this article about the affects on other parts of the world outside of the United States. If content here belongs at Great Recession in the United States, then suggest which sections should be moved. However, I am of the opinion that this tag is entirely inappropriate.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 20:08, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The problem is the ridiculously absurd introduction, which is entirely formed around the U.S. recession. I'm quite sure I tried editing it before but was reverted. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 00:40, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

18½ months?
The lead says, "....the U.S. recession began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, and thus extended over 19 months. The Overview says, "...the US recession began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, and thus extended over 18 months.
 * Flip a coin? Buster Seven   Talk  20:02, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Great Recession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090326150223/http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/53/27/41700068.pdf to http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/53/27/41700068.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 08:17, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Great Recession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140130150702/http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hX_yLdUnz5f88yZ0hRevt3LQyP-w?hl=en to http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hX_yLdUnz5f88yZ0hRevt3LQyP-w?hl=en
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090228220508/http://iht.com:80/articles/2009/01/29/europe/france.4-418938.php to http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/29/europe/france.4-418938.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090204213545/http://iht.com:80/articles/2009/02/01/europe/01russia.php to http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/01/europe/01russia.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080919042036/http://www.iht.com:80/articles/2008/09/16/business/cbanks.php to http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/16/business/cbanks.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 05:43, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Great Recession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090311070118/http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/news/newstopics/politics/gordon-brown/4961897/Gordon-Brown-should-say-sorry-over-economy-minister-says.html to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/gordon-brown/4961897/Gordon-Brown-should-say-sorry-over-economy-minister-says.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 22:36, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Time to change the title
It is slightly annoying to look up "Great Recession" on Wikipedia and be redirected to "Global recession of 2008-2012", a title which changes every year. I have frequently seen the phrase "Great Recession" in newspapers and magazines, but never this article's title. If I asked someone about the Great Recession, they would answer, if I asked them about the Global recession of 2008-2012 they would look at me sideways and start edging away. The wikipedia article on the Great Depression is not titled "Global recession of 1929-1941", why does this article have to be different? Edit: I did not intend this, but the fact that I could not correctly remember the title of this article sharpens my point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.255.139 (talk) 12:22, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Who knows what name historians will settle on? When they do, we'll move it. User:Fred Bauder Talk 22:49, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Great Recession is the leading favorite though. The problem with it is that "recession" has a technical meaning which does not conform to the subject which is a sustained period of low growth rather than an recession. User:Fred Bauder Talk 22:52, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree it's time to change the title. The current dating of the recession in the title is unsupported, original research. Few, if any, sources date the recession from 2008 to 2012 (the US recession began in 2007 and most countries have ad positive economic growth for a couple years). World economic growth has clearly recovered (http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+gdp), so calling ongoing economic problems a "global recession" presents a Western bias (Non-western press often refers to the recession as "Western" or "Atlantic"). I think "Great Recession" is commonly used enough at this point that we can use it in the title for this article.--Bkwillwm (talk) 21:48, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Considering the every government and central bank in the world is trying to fix a debt caused crisis by getting even deeper in debt, my vote for the title would probably be something like "The Precursor to the Apocalypse".71.174.141.4 (talk) 02:15, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I suggest you follow the example of the Portuguese Wikipedia and change the title to Great Recession. It's the name being used out there and everywhere.79.169.57.230 (talk) 15:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I also concur with changing the name of this article to "Great Recession" using Great Depression as as title template. This term has been used by both President Obama and Vice President Biden. It seems like the logical name to settle upon. --JamesReyes (talk) 23:50, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

The new title makes Wikipedia the go-to place for conversational economic terms you might hear at McDonald's. Bravo. --76.126.96.228 (talk) 21:25, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * While one might argue the diffuse patina from accidentally jostling a marmalade-laden pair of trousers against a wall has more gravitas than titles half-heartedly nodding to a previous generation's socio-cultural sign-post, at least the community debated about it and reached some kind of decision. If the community decides to rename this cuurent generation the 'not as great as the greatest but not so bad generation' then that's where I'd draw the line. Until then, though, let's all have spirited debates and let the majority rule wherever they may happen to lead. --2601:9:6C00:43:8AAE:1DFF:FE3C:4BF1 (talk) 13:57, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

About damn time this happened. Its 3 years overdue at least. The media has been calling it Great Recession for years, but the control freaks who want to wait 50 years (but have no problem reporting on other current or recent events) for a finalized term without ANY evidence AT ALL that it will ever change from GR, maintained their lines. Thankfully, they have been forced to surrender and go back to hold back some other article progress.--Metallurgist (talk) 07:31, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that Wikipedia should be wary of following what journalists do or say. Whilst I have heard the term Great Recession used, it does not appear to me to be the most common name for the event.Royalcourtier (talk) 01:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Ended In 2009?
Really!? 2009 is when it had its biggest blow. It's STILL going on today. The economy never recovered, merely slowed down getting worse. You will be hardpressed to find ANYONE who claims it ended in 2009. Even the government claims it ended in 2011.68.42.32.128 (talk) 17:30, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Dr. Rios-Rull's comment on this article
Dr. Rios-Rull has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

"It should include a description of the magnitude. Say a decline in GDP of X% below trend (which is defined as per capita growth of 2% or slightly less. It should also discuss the duration a bit more. Words like exorbitant are not useful. It should describe how the numbers in the Great Recession or in the period before it compare to normal times. The intelligent readers of Wikipedia can then decide which one is the appropriate adjective. It is not clear how the narratives work."

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

Dr. Rios-Rull has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:


 * Reference : Glover, Andrew & Heathcote, Jonathan & Krueger, Dirk & Rios-Rull, Jose-Victor, 2014. "Intergenerational Redistribution in the Great Recession," Staff Report 498, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 15:47, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Great Recession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080925210636/http://www.nber.org/cycles.html to http://www.nber.org/cycles.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090303075017/http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/60822.html to http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/60822.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150906094437/http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/15892/1/MPRA_paper_15892.pdf to http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/15892/1/MPRA_paper_15892.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130119182304/http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/euroindicators/peeis/ to http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/euroindicators/peeis
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130919121523/http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-23042012-AP/EN/2-23042012-AP-EN.PDF to http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-23042012-AP/EN/2-23042012-AP-EN.PDF
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090910-703229.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120514181736/http://irps.ucsd.edu/assets/001/500904.pdf to http://irps.ucsd.edu/assets/001/500904.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Past or present tense?
The first introductory paragraph begins with the following:

Great Recession was a period of general economic decline observed in world markets during the late 2000s and early 2010s. The scale and timing of the recession varied from country to country.[1][2] In terms of overall impact, the International Monetary Fund concluded that it was the worst global recession since World War II.[3][4] According to the US National Bureau of Economic Research (the official arbiter of US recessions) the recession, as experienced in that country, began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, thus extending over 19 months.[5] The Great Recession was related to the financial crisis of 2007–08 and U.S. subprime mortgage crisis of 2007–09. The Great Recession has resulted in the scarcity of valuable assets in the market economy and the collapse of the financial sector in the world economy.[6][7]

The editor clearly uses the past tense when referring to the 'Great Recession'. However, the economic crisis which began in 2007-08, is still with us today, almost ten years later. Hence, we cannot use the term Great Recession as if it were a thing of the past. What the introductory paragraph seems to be saying (in a rather misleading way) is that the worst part of the crisis (first several years) is over. But this does not mean that the 'Great Recession' is behind us i.e., "was a period of general economic decline observed in world markets during the late 2000s and early 2010s" as the introductory paragraph states.

The economic crisis is also called the Great Recession. The word 'Great' doesn't appear in the label 'Great Recession' just because of the 'scale' of the crisis, as the first paragraph implies, but because of the longevity of the crisis. After all, did the Great Depressions of the 19th and 20th centuries not last for a decade if not more? (e.g., Great Depression of 1870s - 90s and Great Depression of 1930s).

Let's cite some of the literature, which confirms the view that the Great Recession is still with us today and should be written about in a way that reflects that fact.

1. American Government and Politics Today (2016) Lynne E. Ford, ‎Barbara A. Bardes, ‎Steffen W. Schmidt

"However, five years after the Great Recession, many families still feel financially vulnerable and have doubts about their..."

Source: https://books.google.ca/books?id=atm6DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA6&dq=the+great+recession+continues+2017&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the%20great%20recession%20continues%202017&f=false

2. Japan's Great Stagnation and Abenomics: Lessons for the World (2015), M. Wakatabe

"As of August 2014, the Great Recession is not really over. It is clearly not over for the European countries"

https://books.google.ca/books?id=QHCADAAAQBAJ&pg=PA140&dq=the+great+recession+is+not+over&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the%20great%20recession%20is%20not%20over&f=false

3. The Roller Coaster Economy: Financial Crisis, Great Recession, and the Economy Howard J Sherman (2015)

"The Great Recession and crisis of the Bush era were not over at the time of this writing"

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bPcvCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT198&dq=the+great+recession+is+not+over&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the%20great%20recession%20is%20not%20over&f=false

At the very least, acknowledge that there is a debate about this issue i.e., great recession as over or present — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.88.67 (talk) 01:35, 4 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Please wait until your question is discussed before making any edits, because this sounds like a very debated viewpoint. I don't have much time to answer right now, but here's something to consider. In most cases, I support using past tense when referring to encyclopedic material, because changing all sentences later would be a real pain. If you wrote that great pie baking competition lasted between 2005 and 2017, you could still update the closing year easily. Anyway, see the timeline below and the definition. You can verify objectively whether the formula still holds to this day. If you think the formula is not reflective of how people define recession in real life and you found publications analyzing this question specifically, we can consider adding such alternative, potentially minor definitions. However, if that formula is not as wide spread as the one currently used, we should not reword/rewrite a major part of the article to reflect this. I did not check your links above yet, but if they only claim that certain people got worse off compared to before, then that's not enough - a global impact of a given country's economy should be presented.
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession#Timeline_of_effects
 * bkil (talk) 06:59, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Great Recession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100303001627/http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/00374/00456/index.html?lang=en to http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/00374/00456/index.html?lang=en

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:04, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

No housing bubble in Israel during this period - Removed from list
It is not enough for housing prices to rise in order to be considered a housing bubble as the paragraph self explains: "Real estate bubbles are (by definition of the word "bubble") followed by a price decrease (also known as a housing price crash) that can result in many owners holding negative equity" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.142.120.66 (talk) 12:43, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Great Recession. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150210155549/https://g20.org/about-g20/g20-members/ to https://g20.org/about-g20/g20-members/
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20081211112023/http://www.asia-manufacturing.com/news-232-chinesepharmaceutical-exporters-taxrebates-increases.html to http://www.asia-manufacturing.com/news-232-chinesepharmaceutical-exporters-taxrebates-increases.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110501152231/http://timeline.stlouisfed.org/index.cfm?p=articles&ct_id=10 to http://timeline.stlouisfed.org/index.cfm?p=articles&ct_id=10

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:06, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 15 July 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 23:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Great Recession → ? – There's a posibillity of another newer great recession coming in 2020. Also, the International Monetary Fund confirmed that Argentina will stay in recession during 2020. As a result, the original Great Recession page should be renamed to 2008-2010 Great Recession or Classic Great Recession. 87.101.93.110 (talk) 23:27, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The recession hasn't happened yet. --Comment by Selfie City</b> ( talk about my  contributions ) 23:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This is a proper name, not a description.  It seems the RM proposer means to jest, and request that this RM be closed by an admin. Walrasiad (talk) 01:51, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose WP:NOTCRYSTALBALL.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 03:27, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose, mere crystalballery. PC78 (talk) 10:12, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose even if we accept that the next recession is around the corner we have no evidence that it will also be known as a Great Recession.--66.110.154.96 (talk) 22:21, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment. The first link the proposer made, to https://www.livemint.com/opinion/online-views/opinion-the-growing-risk-of-a-global-recession-and-crisis-in-2020-1560791070805.html is an opinion piece. --Comment by <b style="color:#14866d">Selfie City</b> ( talk about my  contributions ) 22:23, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The current title is the best one for this article. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:18, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There may indeed be a future time when moving this article becomes necessary — but moving it now on the pretext that one opinion columnist has speculated about the possibility of another recession happening in the near future is crystal balling. The time to move the article will be if and when a new recession actually happens that actually gets named "Great Recession", not today. Bearcat (talk) 22:11, 17 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 23 August 2019
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW. The above (nearly identical) move request failed unanimously and occurred less than a month ago! This isn't worth hashing out again so soon. Nohomersryan (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Great Recession → 2008-2010 great recession – A new great recession is coming in 2020. It's official, because newspapers, like Washington Post, says that a new crisis will coming in early-2020. Even if Alberto Fernandez will win the 2019 Argentina elections, the country's economy will still be in recession in 2020. As a result, the original Great Recession page will be moved to 2008-2010 great recession, while the redirect page will have the 2020 great recession's info. The new version of the Great Reccesion is scheduled to start in the first months of 2020. 198.58.112.202 (talk) 20:37, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose and close, this was discussed immediately above. © Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 20:53, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose and speedy close. This clearly isn't a serious nomination. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:24, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose even if we do accept that the next recession is coming next year there’s no evidende that it will also be known as the Great Recession.--64.229.166.98 (talk) 22:38, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

It happened!
Hey above two discussions, how you predicted the 2020 Recession? Seems Wikipedia has the Crystal Ball!213.230.113.46 (talk) 16:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act?
Why isn't there a single reference to this legislation? It is universally accepted in academia as one of THE causes of the recession. 65.92.83.224 (talk) 03:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I second this, could be discussed under causes. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123665023774979341.html --Dacowhig (talk) 23:47, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Added, eight years later... Richard75 (talk) 11:27, 22 September 2020 (UTC)