Talk:Hurricane Ian/Archive 1

Redirect
I have noticed that there is another draft regarding Hurricane Ian. Redirect or not? Sarrail (talk) 00:40, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * looks like its going to be deleted--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:51, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Cat 5 hurricane?
Right now, at 155mph sustained winds, it is so close to being a Category 5 hurricane. If it does reach 157mph sustained winds, if someone could update on that, it would be well appreciated. Williamwang363 (talk) 18:00, 28 September 2022 (UTC)


 * According to the track, Ian is not expected to become a Category 5 hurricane. Mobius Gerig (talk) 19:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This is quite the relief. Thanks for informing on that. Williamwang363 (talk) 19:06, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Why does this provide you relief? Is there any functional difference between 155 and 157mph winds?  Valgrus Thunderaxe (talk) 00:04, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * NOAA's update at 19:10 UTC is 150mph sustained winds, down from 155mph. So probably just squeaking under the Cat 5 threshold, not that the damage on the ground would vary much due to a few less mph. -- Natural  R X  19:29, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * A high end Category 4 is still very devastating for any tropical cyclone. It is still looking pretty bad on satellite imagery. Williamwang363 (talk) 22:12, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Where? I can't see anything above 75 knots in the buoy data. 2003:C7:EF1E:7FA:B54C:1275:5CDA:A3E4 (talk) 08:29, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * it reached high end cat 4 yesterday morning Lolkikmoddi (talk) 13:32, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * That is still very devastating, and had the hurricane drifted westward into the Gulf, then it would have became a Cat 5, but it just had to make a direct landfall in Florida, as a high-end Cat 4. Williamwang363 (talk) 16:35, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2022 (2)
Ian caused 644,000 power outages in Florida https://abc13.com/hurricane-ian-florida-tracker-tropical-depression-9-hurricanes/12274827/ 173.68.184.70 (talk) 20:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2022
Change current pressure from 952 mb to 947 mb to reflect NHC updates 50.125.95.99 (talk) 00:34, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ We have some rookies who haven't seemed to learn how to properly fill in advisories. United States Man (talk) 00:39, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

AfC submission Draft:Tropical Storm Ian (2022)
heavy rainfall has already accrued in Cuba, Jamaica, and the Cayman Islands so I think it is notable enough to be its own article. HiltonCalifornia (talk) 17:04, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Blocked Sock. Elijahandskip (talk) 12:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * , please see WP:NWEATHER for the notability of a tropical cyclone for an article. Currently, there is 0 chance TS Ian has any chance of meeting that notability criteria. Hopefully the AfC reviewer notices this talk page discussion as well, if not, and it is somehow accepted (unlikely), then I will be redraftifying it until it passes the notability for a tropical cyclone’s article. Elijahandskip (talk) 21:21, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * An AFC for an article under this title is premature. The tropical storm has done nothing yet that cannot be fully covered in the storm's 2022 AHS section. Ian will, probably tomorrow, become a hurricane and rapidly intensify as it moves through the Gulf. Ultimately, this draft will be published as Hurricane Ian. Be patient and build the article. Drdpw (talk) 21:28, 25 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Blocked Sock. Elijahandskip (talk) 12:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * How about working on the article and publishing it when the hurricane has run its course. Drdpw (talk) 11:38, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Usually, when a storm is threatening land, we publish it earlier. People do actually rely on Wikipedia for forecast information even though they really shouldn’t. 173.68.184.70 (talk) 19:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2022
Under section Preparations -> United States -> Florida, add information about closure of universities as far north as Tallahassee (Florida State University and Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University).

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/2022/09/26/hurricane-ian-fsu-famu-florida-a-m-homecoming-football-classes-university-closed/8119269001/

98.230.35.15 (talk) 15:21, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

All the water has been drained from Tampa Bay
This seems like a remarkable claim. Admittedly, I'm unfamiliar with the geography of the bay, and I may be misunderstanding the phrase "all the water". Nevertheless, I searched the the cited reference all the way back to the initial update, and I couldn't find anything to support the statement that anything "pulled all the water out of Tampa Bay". The closest thing I could find was the section "Tampa water recedes ahead of Hurricane Ian, images show", which had some striking photos, but didn't describe the bay as being "totally" or "completely" drained. Fried Gold (talk) 01:41, 29 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Agree. I've seen pics and videos, including here that appear to show a substantial amount of water gone, but certainly not "all the water". 12george1 (talk) 03:05, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Fried Gold I have seen videos of water going away from Tampa bay 203.212.240.23 (talk) 05:34, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, It’s really hard for a semi protected article to get such improper wording. If the bay was emptied, we would know if it was true or false. No evidence for “all the water” IMAGINETHO (talk) 02:28, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

State of emergency declared in the State of South Carolina prior to Ian
This should be added to Preparation for the State of SC as Gov Henry McMaster signed the order on the 28th of September.SC Impact from Hurricane Ian From SC Govt SiteOfficial Order for the State of Emergency PDF — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.78.76.6 (talk) 18:44, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2022 (2)
In 'Meteorological History' change Gravitational waves to Gravity waves -- movement of classical fluids and not phenomena of gen relativity 24.252.217.244 (talk) 18:56, 29 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Fixed! Thanks for the spot. Penitentes (talk) 19:07, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Animated Error Cone
To the best of my knowledge from its very beginnings as tropical wave Invest-98L Hurricane Ian was very much on track to being an extremely destructive hurricane, all of the factors having lined up just so. (I'd only heard about the Invest nomenclature recently.) Animating the error cone would illustrate this as it wouldn't be wagging much over time –the thing was basically on rails. kencf0618 (talk) 19:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hurricane Ian approaching the Florida Peninsula.gif

Draft:Hurricane Ian tornado outbreak
Letting editors know I am starting a draft article for Hurricane Ian’s tornado outbreak. Around 6 confirmed/surveyed tornadoes so far with at least a dozen surveys still ongoing. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:43, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Radically Understated NASA Action Needs Expansion - Preparations - Florida
The simple reference to Artemis 1 launch being delayed "due to the storm" is a rather remarkable, and disingenuous understatement of the actions NASA actually undertook to "Prepare". NASA moved Artemis 1 from the launch pad back Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) in a remarkably prescient decision considering at the time they made this decision, Ian was forecast miss them by hundreds of miles. There is ample information in the referenced blog post as well as numerous other respected news outlets that covered the movement of Artemis I. On 9/26/22, (the time of NASA's decision, Ian was still south of western Cuba and forecast to continue more northerly ( toward Pensacola ). The point here is, yes, the launch was delayed but the delay was a secondary result of the actual preparation NASA took to move the rocket. The actual Ian related primary preparation/action was NASA's decision to move Artemis 1 off the launchpad. The delay of the launch was merely a secondary effect of the decision to move because of Ian. 2600:1700:6E1:79E0:ED1A:46E6:3519:BDCA (talk) 19:51, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Cullen328 (talk) 20:04, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Appreciate it.
 * But not to pick nits, the sentence still isn't correct:
 * "The Artemis 1 space launch was delayed due to the storm, and the rocket was returned to the Vehicle Assembly Building."
 * Should be something like:
 * "NASA took the decision to move the Artemis 1 rocket off the launch pad to the Vehicle Assembly Building. As a result of the move, the space launch was delayed." 2600:1700:6E1:79E0:ED1A:46E6:3519:BDCA (talk) 20:10, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I fear you are picking nits. Anyone who wants more detail can find it at Artemis 1. Cullen328 (talk) 20:16, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure.
 * From a purely technical perspective, neither the article or any of the NASA blog posts says one word about a delay.
 * Technically speaking, any "delay" is actually purely supposition, and not based on the available information.
 * While I might agree a supposed delay might be a reasonable deduction, the only verifiable information is that the stack was moved as a preparation for Ian. 2600:1700:6E1:79E0:ED1A:46E6:3519:BDCA (talk) 21:33, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2022
Ponce Inlet recorded 31.52 in of rain from Ian. Please add to the article. https://www.accuweather.com/en/hurricane/southwest-florida-in-tatters-2-days-after-hurricane-ians-rampage/1256208 47.21.202.18 (talk) 21:02, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Sarrail (talk) 01:03, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 October 2022
Ian caused 95,000 power outages in Virginia, please add to the impact section https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/hurricane-ian/?id=90445860 173.68.184.70 (talk) 13:11, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Also to the Virginia impact section, please add winds of 69 mph in Cape Henry and 68 mph in the Cheseapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. Also, if possible, please add the Delaware wind gusts of 48 mph in Dewey Beach and 43 mph in Rehoboth Beach. Source - https://www.delmarvanow.com/story/news/local/maryland/2022/10/01/hurricane-ian-brings-rain-surf-to-ocean-city-md-maryland-virginia-beaches-assateague-eastern-shore/69531164007/ 173.68.184.70 (talk) 13:13, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Semi-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Terasail [✉️] 20:01, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 October 2022 (2)
Also please update North Carolina power outages to 320,000 https://abc11.com/ian-hurricane-power-outage-duke-energy-map/12284697/ 173.68.184.70 (talk) 13:14, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Semi-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Terasail [✉️] 20:01, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Fort Myers city vs Fort Myers beach (town)
Channels are confusing Fort Myers Beach, Florida with Fort Myers, Florida. The former town is in the news. The latter not so much. I have no idea of the damage to the Fort Myers, Florida which is 14 miles inland than the beach. @Magnolia677 has added Special:Diff/1113416608 these damage info in Fort Myers, Florida, and I believe it is probably the wrong page and should have been added at Fort Myers Beach, Florida, but without a reference it is hard to check. @BrayLockBoy. The news channels keep dialing the wrong mayor and officials. Please be on the lookout for mistakes. Venkat TL (talk) 19:29, 1 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I see - thanks for the clarification, and I'll keep an eye out for similar errors. BrayLockBoy (talk) 20:17, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Why are you mentioning me, I've never even edited this article? I did revert one of you recent unsourced edits Fort Myers, Florida. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Magnolia677 because this is your edit Special:Diff/1113416608. I find it strange that you found my edit unsourced and the rest of the line sourced? I have removed the entire unsourced section. Venkat TL (talk) 20:56, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Fatalities
There have been 35 deaths in Lee County in Florida alone according to Sheriff Carmine Marceno. I know people want to be skeptical as to whether these people died due to the hurricane, but there are normally not 35 dead bodies lying around in Lee County. Usually it is just 34, so one of those was bound to have been killed by the hurricane. 68.204.52.145 (talk) 00:58, 2 October 2022 (UTC) 

Can an editor go through and reference the sources for the 3 Cuban and 17 US fatalities? In the last 20 minutes, sources are vastly different with anywhere from 12-19 (haven’t actually seen a 20 yet) fatalities for either US only or combined Cuba/US. So we need to reference every fatality increase now to prevent any issues down the road. Elijahandskip (talk) 05:31, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Does it make sense to have a List with the Florida Counties Death Numbers? At least internally, cause its a bit chaotic right now. My current knowledge is: Cuba 3 Deaths Florida: Charlotte County 12 Killed Collier County 8 Killed Lee County 5 Killed Sarasota County: 2 Deaths Polk County 1 Killed Lake County 1 Death Volusia County: 1 Death Putnam County: 1 Death 2A02:810B:1040:5230:F4CE:55D7:FD6E:9E44 (talk) 14:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It’s best to have the county list for now because so many different sources have different numbers (which are all lowers than the true number due to the “breaking news” nature of a rising death toll). Anyone want to make that? Elijahandskip (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Question: How are we counting the death toll? Are we going by official government sources and/or newspaper tallies? Are twitter counts superior to those other sources? I'm seeking consensus for moving forward, here and in the AHS article. Thank you. Drdpw (talk) 17:36, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * , Stop reverting the fatality total. If you are using the governor’s “confirmed” statement, then we should really be using the 23 total. If you want the true “confirmed’ total, then it is 7 in Florida and 3 in Cuba. - A state official said Friday that at least 21 people have died in Florida during Hurricane Ian, though 20 of those deaths have not been officially confirmed as being caused by the storm.… So far, seven deaths in Florida have been linked to Ian: two in Volusia County, one of those in New Smyrna and one in Deltona; two in Sarasota County; two on Sanibel Island in Lee County; and one in Lake County. In addition, three people died when Ian hit Cuba, according to the Associated Press.
 * So now we have a full discussion. Do we use Government total (21 US and 2 Cuba), use media total (30 US and 3 Cuba), or use the media’s actual “confirmed” total of (7 US and 3 Cuba). We need to pick because right now, it is factually incorrect. All 3 are really fully incorrect, hence why we have that “multiple source” statement at the bottom of the chart. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:44, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The media is even saying the governor’s total was inaccurate. So we should be using the combination of sources, which gives the 33 fatalities - 30 US and 3 Cuba. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:45, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * - Messed up the ping above. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:46, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I think online sources (most likely by the government, newspaper and local news) would most likely be used throughout the article (except a few Twitter posts, tweeted by NHC and NWS officials.) Sarrail (talk) 17:43, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This seems like some type of morbid competition. Anyhow, Ian affected Florida for almost two days.  It seems impossible that only twenty to thirty people died in the state during this timeframe.  Given this article is about the storm, the deaths attributed to the storm seem more pertinent than the total deaths in the state during this event.  Valgrus Thunderaxe (talk) 02:39, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Just an FYI, I included the 11-year-old who fell off a balcony because the death wouldn't have occurred if they hadn't evacuated. It's an indirect death that resulted from evacuation. Noah Talk 03:25, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Sources can be pretty misleading with their counts at this point. For example, CNN has a headline of Ian expected to dissipate soon after striking Carolinas and killing at least 45 in Florida. However, the details in the story later say this is only a "suspected to be related to Ian" count:

The New York Times was more conservative in another article, only counting numbers from actual autopsy results: —Bagumba (talk) 04:40, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Premature Damage Totals
Recently, there was a huge RfC and debate between NOAA and Aon damage totals. While damage totals outside NOAA are now generally accepted, do we actually have confirmation on:


 * 1) 7th costliest hurricane on record (from NOAA)?
 * 2) $47 billion damage total?

From reading all the sources, I cannot find either of those being true. I see ranges that max out at 47 billion (Like Reuters saying 28-47 billion), but that isn’t a damage total either since it is the max of a range. I am going to remove the information from the infobox as it appears to be WP:OR that it did cause $47 billion. Elijahandskip (talk) 14:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Further information/discussion can be found here. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

When to change this article to display Ian at it's peak intensity instead of what it currently is?
Ian is set to dissipate later today. When do we start changing the article in order to display it as it was during peak intensity instead of how it is right now as a post-tropical cyclone? Charzuchi (talk) 07:12, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * , that'll happen when the National Hurricane Center stops issuing advisories on Ian. They're still warning on Ian at the moment as it's producing tropical-storm-force winds near the US coast. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 08:17, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * NHC has announced that they've posted the last public advisory on Ian. Thankfully we've already gotten the updates, but it's no longer having any advisories at all as there is nothing left to discuss. Charzuchi (talk) 10:26, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * We have not in the past, to my knowledge, continued using the active storm infobox once the NHC has passed a post-tropical storm off to the WPC, why do it with Ian? I am fine with doing so as long as we do it with all post-tropical cyclones going forward. Drdpw (talk) 12:37, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hurricane Noah answered my question on my talk page saying: We did it for Ida last year. That's the most recent example afaik. The reason we added post-tropical and extratropical to the infobox was to continue updating the information when the storm still has advisories and is a threat to populated areas. Drdpw (talk) 12:50, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh I see. Once Ian has had it's last advisory by the WPC announced we need to change it as displaying at peak intensity instead of current storm status. Charzuchi (talk) 22:33, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Drdpw's right - I forgot WPC takes over advisories for systems below tropical-storm-force inland over the US. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 07:40, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2022
Someone has changed Ian to cat 5. Someone change it. Thank you. 2601:89:8400:ED40:68A3:175B:AB63:6A11 (talk) 00:59, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ with this edit by . ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 03:01, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2022
Under section Impact -> United States -> Florida, the following line is incorrect:

"As Ian approached the state, a boat carrying 23 migrants sank. Three of them were rescued by the Coast Guard, while a fourth was able to swim ashore.[86][87]"

Both linked sources speak of 3 rescued and an additional four making it to shore, not a fourth.

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2022
Hurricane Ian set a record cold temperature at jfk airport of 52 F on October 3, please add under the elsewhere section. https://www.silive.com/weather/2022/10/feeling-the-cold-monday-sets-nyc-record-as-temperatures-sit-well-below-normal.html 173.68.184.70 (talk) 17:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Sarrail (talk) 18:06, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

landfall
impact of 155-160 mph should be noted in the article https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at4+shtml/160155.shtml?cone#contents(as far as Im aware as a Floridian) perhaps only 'Andrew' was stronger at landfall when it hit Florida city...--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:58, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

that's some propagandic nonsense. this storm is a Cat 1. media is lying about its severity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.205.69.71 (talk) 17:25, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

A high-resolution satelite image of Ian taken at the time of landfall is available at https://cdn.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES16/ABI/SECTOR/se/GEOCOLOR/20222711926_GOES16-ABI-se-GEOCOLOR-2400x2400.jpg, or https://cdn.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES16/ABI/SECTOR/se/GEOCOLOR/20222711511-20222711906-GOES16-ABI-SE-GEOCOLOR-600x600.gif for an animated gif of the image sequence leading to landfall. I'm not an editor, but thought you all might find it useful for the article. 47.144.17.73 (talk) 19:39, 28 September 2022 (UTC)


 * have archived those links
 * static image
 * loop Fleur  De  Odile  22:18, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Hurricane Ian conspiracy theories
Should those be mentioned in this article or would it be better if the topic had its own article? The USA far-right is propagating claims that weather-modification technology was used to create and/or steer the hurricane. Claims of this nature are nothing new (see: HAARP) but they’re coming to the forefront again because of Ian. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:AFF0 (talk) 04:39, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * For a separate section, multiple sources (guessing 5+) would be needed. It could be combined in the media section. Elijahandskip (talk) 06:01, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Worthy—at most—of a brief mention in the Depiction in media section. The chatter would need to be more widespread for anything more. Drdpw (talk) 11:55, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * As OP said, conspiracy theories about HAARP etc. are old news. Per WP:FRINGE this probably doesn't warrant mention unless there is substantial coverage. TornadoLGS (talk) 22:30, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2022
Current: “A tidal gauge at Springmaid Pier in Myrtle Beach reached 10.77 in, beating the record of 9.8 in set by Hurricane Isaias two years prior.[127]”

Should be: A tidal gauge at Springmaid Pier in Myrtle Beach reached 10.77 ft, beating the record of 9.8 ft set by Hurricane Isaias two years prior.[127]

The units are erroneously given as inches. The source cited uses feet. 2603:6011:4902:9B49:DCFC:D5A6:98F9:A1E2 (talk) 02:06, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thank you for the correction! – The Grid  ( talk )  13:20, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

minor edit request - reframe to focus on value of life instead of money
In the main description, can you please rearrange this paragraph Ian caused catastrophic damage with losses estimated between US$28–63 billion. Damage was mostly from flooding, with the cities of Fort Myers Beach and Naples particularly impacted. Millions were left without power in the storm's wake, and several inhabitants were forced to take refuge on their roofs. Sanibel suffered major flooding as well and its causeway collapsed. Pine Island in Lee County, Florida also suffered extreme damage and flooding, with the bridge to Fort Myers being leveled. In total, Hurricane Ian caused at least 137 fatalities, including 5 people in Cuba, 126 in Florida, 5 in North Carolina and 1 in Virginia as of October 6, according to local officials. This U.S. death toll of 132 makes Hurricane Ian the 23rd deadliest hurricane in the country's history.

to have its sentences in this order instead?

In total, Hurricane Ian caused at least 137 fatalities, including 5 people in Cuba, 126 in Florida, 5 in North Carolina and 1 in Virginia as of October 6, according to local officials. This U.S. death toll of 132 makes Hurricane Ian the 23rd deadliest hurricane in the country's history. Ian caused catastrophic damage with losses estimated between US$28–63 billion. Damage was mostly from flooding, with the cities of Fort Myers Beach and Naples particularly impacted. Millions were left without power in the storm's wake, and several inhabitants were forced to take refuge on their roofs. Sanibel suffered major flooding as well and its causeway collapsed. Pine Island in Lee County, Florida also suffered extreme damage and flooding, with the bridge to Fort Myers being leveled.

Or some other reframing that prioritizes telling people about the loss of life over the loss of money? Thanks! 67.164.18.219 (talk) 02:33, 9 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Done. I do recommend that you make an account and start editing so you can get autoconfirmed yourself and make whatever changes you see fit. But as for your request, I've changed the paragraph. I do agree that loss of life should be more emphasized than monetary damages. Charzuchi (talk) 04:23, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Hurricane Ian (Category 5?)
I see that Ian was a high-end Cat 4, But by my analysis I think it was a low-end Cat 5. I still don’t think it’s a good reason to add that. But what do you guys think? TheEasternEditer (talk) 01:52, 6 October 2022 (UTC)


 * If there is a reliable source for it, then there could be a discussion on it. So far, there is no source that it was a Category 5.  --Super Goku V (talk) 05:07, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @TheEasternEditer Currently, there is no evidence or sources that Ian was a Category 5 hurricane. Even if Ian is a high-end Category 4 hurricane, 155 mph is still classified as a Category 4 hurricane. After 160 (actually 157) mph, it is classified as a Category 5 hurricane.
 * For example, Hurricane Iota in 2020 was at first classified as a Category 5 with winds up to 160 mph. However its winds were downgraded from 160 to 155 due to some questions with the reconnaissance flight; making Iota a Category 4 hurricane. Layah50♪  (  喋ってください!  )  05:19, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both! TheEasternEditer (talk) 10:42, 6 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The National Hurricane Center also does a post-analysis which will look over data. I believe that's how Hurricane Michael was reclassified as a Category 5 when it was originally classified as making landfall as a Category 4. – The Grid  ( talk )  13:24, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It was. ChessEric (talk · contribs) 06:55, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Cape Coral
There is an error in the article the says the bridge from Pine Island to Fort Myers was levied. Pine Island connects to Cape Coral not Fort Myers. You also failed to mention how devastating the hurricane was to Cape Coral which is southwest Florida’s largest city. Cape Coral suffered much more damage than Naples that you did mention. Youmie7 (talk) 07:22, 10 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Provide specific examples from the article that should be improved. The article seems to explain Cape Coral and Naples with no bias. They were both impacted severely just like Fort Myers, Port Charlotte, Englewood, and Venice were as well. Even though it might not be explained explicitly in the current article, the article can always be improved to explain such items-provided there's reliable sources. –  The Grid  ( talk )  13:16, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Hurricane Ian damage estimate
The damage estimate of only $1 billion is absurdly wrong. It's far more than that, at least $63 billion. Please fix immediately 2601:1C0:CF00:8900:E052:11A8:EA4C:6E46 (talk) 18:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * We cannot fix it as NOAA has only stated it is at least $1 billion. Also, there is no official source, aka NOAA or Aon, that says $63 billion. Matter of fact, based on WP:OR (basic math looking at the NOAA NCEI September 2022 Climate report), Ian is probably less than $60 billion, but obviously, that is original research and cannot alter things on Wikipeida. Nevertheless, the official NOAA source says at least 1 billion, so it stays greater than or equal to $1 billion. Elijahandskip (talk) 18:35, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Given that the latest NCEI update says "unknown" for Ian so should the infobox of this article. Drdpw (talk) 18:45, 11 October 2022 (UTC).
 * It is on the “Billion Dollar Weather and Climate Disasters” list, which means at least $1 billion in damage. The fact it says “unknown” does not chance the fact that they are saying at least $1 billion in damage, just by the addition on that list. If we change to unknown, then we are not acknowledging that NCEI added it to that list. Elijahandskip (talk) 18:48, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes we are, by using it as the source for our "unknown" statement. If you want to acknowledge that it's on the Billion$ list, attach a footnote Drdpw (talk) 18:52, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Stating for the record, I highly disagree with Drdqw’s revert and the edit summary saying it is “ridiculous” to put that in the infobox, despite it being on the BDWCD list from NCEI. I also reverted the source addition and left a more detailed note there. No use to have a source linking to “Unknown” on a list for at least $1 billion in damage. Elijahandskip (talk) 18:54, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * NOAA updated their billion-dollar disaster page today and indicated the total would be in excess of $50 billion in the event summary, updating pages with this. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 19:24, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Where on the billion—dollar disaster list does it say $50 billion? The events list still says “TBD”. Elijahandskip (talk) 20:21, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * In the text summary on the event listing: "Hurricane Ian's impact is anticipated to exceed $50.0 billion in insured and uninsured losses." ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:24, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It's on this page ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:47, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Migrant Deaths
I saw you removed the "U.S. offshore" portion of the death toll table stating that the migrant deaths, saying they would probably be counted toward Monroe County. But is there a reason you removed the deaths of the migrants from the total death toll? TornadoLGS (talk) 19:47, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for asking I did so because today, Monroe County reports that there have been 7 Ian-related deaths in the county, previously there were 2 reported. Based on those numbers, the deaths reported are probably those of the migrants, yes? Drdpw (talk) 20:02, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:12, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I have noticed that you have repeatedly removed mentions of the migrant deaths in the death toll table: October 3rd, October 6th, the accidental readdition the same day, and October 8th. I was wondering if there was some version of how it was done at Katrina or Sandy that you would support.--Super Goku V (talk) 19:21, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I removed the row because the migrant deaths were being counted twice. An asterisk & note would add clarity. Presently, it appears that they are being counted by state/local authorities in the media as Monroe County, Florida deaths. We'll probably have to wait until spring before we know whether the storm's TCR counts them as "Florida" or as "U.S. offshore" deaths. Drdpw (talk) 20:36, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, but I don't understand why we have to wait until spring. Based on your comments, we are both under the belief that Monroe County is counting them in their reports.  If that is the case, then wouldn't it make sense to make a note of the current situation as understood and update it when the National Hurricane Center releases their report?  --Super Goku V (talk) 21:54, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * In short – Yes. I see now that I should have put the sentence "An asterisk & note would add clarity" as my concluding sentence above, as it's easy to overlook where I put it. Drdpw (talk) 22:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah. I did see that, but I thought you were saying to wait until Spring to add them to the article. Now that I understand, I have made an edit to the article based on my prior edit.  The wording is different, so I would like to ask if you would look at it and change it as needed, since I am not currently confident if the current wording is how it should appear as.  --Super Goku V (talk) 23:47, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Hurricane Ian damage
One thing that needs to be included in this article is what happened in places like Fort Myers Beach and Sanibel. I remember seeing a photo of the aftermath in Fort Myers Beach and it looked like several homes were on fire J.boy.93 (talk) 01:00, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

"23rd deadliest hurricane"
Can we hold off until the season is over to provide a ranking? Is the rank even important to state? Can the rank even be sourced and not be synthesis? (I am imagining it's coming from List of the deadliest tropical cyclones.) I see pointing out rankings as pointless (even "record breaking" info) as so much more can be detailed with presenting the size of the storm and its eyewall range. – The Grid  ( talk )  16:36, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It was sourced. No idea who removed the dang source for it, but CNN mentioned it being the 24th deadliest (when death toll was slightly lower) and linked to a NOAA chart for it. The updated US death toll put it at 23rd. Either way, it had a reliable secondary source before someone decided to rearrange the lead and remove all refs from it. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:30, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I do not know who removed the citation, but that source became obsolete when the death toll went up. Drdpw (talk) 17:41, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It may be obsolete, however, once I find the CNN source, I will add that it is “at least the 24th deadliest hurricane in American history”, since that will fix all the errors & cite the accurate information provided by the RS. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:44, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Found the edit that removed it. I am going to since they are the editor who removed the source, which is part of the reason this discussion started. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:49, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Making such a statement seems premature to me as well, as its not a definitive fact. For that reason I have removed the sentence. I also linked this discussion in my edit summary. Cheers. Drdpw (talk) 17:37, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * "23rd most ..." is a rather empty distinction. I came across this: Citing this source we can say for a fact that  Drdpw (talk) 18:24, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Drdpw That might work better. My topic here was more about not focusing on the ranks but providing how deadly the hurricane is with a valid comparison. This seems to be the best one provided. – The Grid  ( talk )  18:30, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Drdpw I think a note should be added in the article that despite resulting in more deaths in the US than Ian, Sandy was no longer a hurricane when it impacted the US. Maple Doctor (talk) 04:37, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think that's implied when reading the Hurricane Sandy article. It was called "Superstorm Sandy" by the media because it was a tropical system (subtropical) with a nor'easter. – The Grid  ( talk )  12:53, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Inland flooding
A mention should be made of the ongoing disaster in central Florida, especially along the St. Johns River https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/11/weather/florida-flooding-st-johns-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html Albermarle52 (talk) 18:04, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

More pages?
Should we make more pages like Hurricane Irma? Like when Ian made landfall in Cuba, And Effects in North Carolina. TheEasternEditer (talk) 01:15, 13 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @TheEasternEditer, From the looks of the article, (In my opinion) I don't think it is necessary to make another article for now as there isn't much information written. If so, someone in charge might add this template above the article for discussion. *You can ignore the link in the template. It's just an example.  Layah50♪  (  喋ってください!  )  05:10, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

"Nation's deadliest hurricane since Katrina"
Disputing this for two main reasons: Ionmars10 (talk) 15:10, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) The AP article clarifies that it's only counting the mainland US, and therefore excluding Hurricane Maria which was even deadlier than Katrina. I've already fixed this myself.
 * 2) Even then, the claim of "deadliest since Katrina" isn't 100% true, since Hurricane Sandy caused a total of 157 deaths on the US mainland. However, it is true if only direct deaths are counted - the vast majority (126) of deaths in the US from Ian are reported as being direct, while with Sandy less than half (71) were. The AP article doesn't mention Sandy, so can we find another source to clarify this?
 * CNN mentioning it as the “24th deadliest hurricane in US history”, citing a National Hurricane Center Frequently Asked Question chart. NHC’s chart is only for direct fatalities as it marks Sandy with 72. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:16, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * this is a bunch of huffing and puffing about the storm that doesn't even matter. Deadliest since Katrina and 24th deadliest are just fluff. When will it end? Deadliest since X last year? Last week? 100th deadliest? 1000th deadliest? All these mentions are just bloat. Remove them. Noah Talk 15:35, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Just because you see it mentioned in a "reliable" source doesn't mean it warrants inclusion here. United States Man (talk) 15:49, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This statement seemed less fluffy than what was in the article before; but, as it turns out to be no less fluffy, I will remove it. Drdpw (talk) 16:43, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with the others here; just leave it out. ChessEric (talk · contribs) 14:49, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It has been removed. Drdpw (talk) 15:06, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Category 5?
I am seeing a few sources saying that Ian was a category 5, but i don't know if this is true. i've seen NWC stating it was a 150 storm, but I don't think it is true. Can I have a clarification? LuigiIsSuppreme989🌀 (talk) 19:51, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

We have to wait till Post Analysis to find out if Ian was actually a category 5. TheEasternEditer (talk) 19:54, 12 October 2022 (UTC)


 * See archived discussion. -- Natural  R X  18:52, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

If you look on force thirteen, it says it was a category 5 before it made landfall with 160mph winds. I’m thinking if this is true and why it’s not on the wiki as one is because it didn’t make landfall as a 5 or wasn’t a 5 long enough JoshzFromWiki (talk) 17:48, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

However, Force Thirteen is not a reliable source on Wikipedia. It is based on their opinions. We will have to wait until post-analysis by the WMO. Sarrail (talk) 21:55, 22 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Wow, people are now changing Ian to a category 5 the day after the protection expired. Sarrail (talk) 01:15, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I just added an in-line that states a person must have a source from NOAA, NHC, or a NWS forecasting office saying it is a category 5 before changing it. I also noted in the in-line that changing without one of those sources would be vandalism since only NOAA/NHC/NWS can determine the rating of the hurricane officially. Elijahandskip (talk) 01:25, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Category 5 wind claim
Should this be in here? It seems suspect:

"Category 5 winds were observed through equipment placed at/near Eldred’s Marina, Boca Grande Causeway, Placida, Florida on September 28th with speeds reaching 176 mph (283 km/h) sustained and up to 208 mph (334 km/h) gusts."

It is backed up by a facebook video from some meeting (although I didn't watch the video). United States Man (talk) 22:10, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I’m glad you started this discussion. While you were typing this discussion start, I added the unreliable source? template right after that source. I opt to remove it. Elijahandskip (talk) 22:14, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't buy it either. I think we should remove as well unless there is a real good reason not to. United States Man (talk) 22:41, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I removed it. It's a hoax. It was created by some chaser who has been known to make claims like this without any proof. Additionally, any videos on social media have to be from either reputable news organizations that are deemed reliable or subject matter experts whose written work would be considered reliable. This poster meets none of those criteria so this video is unreliable. Noah Talk 22:47, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * How about moving it down to the depiction in media section. Zach CoveyTV, a broadcast meteorologist said it is misinformation. From the comments, it appears even Reed Timmer commented about that topic. Since it is misinformation and it spread like wildfire, even with another chief broadcast meteorologist, Matt Devitt, saying “Several viewers have asked me about a viral TikTok video with Commissioner Bill Truex stating that #Ian was a Category 5 with winds of 176 mph at Eldred’s Marina in Placida.” Might be worth including just on those grounds, but certainly not in the summary/impact sections. Elijahandskip (talk) 22:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * but is that gusts of 176 mph or sustained winds for a minute? Let's keep the information as what NWC and NOAA stated and see what comes up with the reanalysis which should be later this year. I'm also going to be blunt: he's a county commissioner, not a meteorologist. – The Grid  ( talk )  23:42, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter who is in the video since it's not published by a reliable account. Noah Talk 23:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

October death toll issue
There is currently an issue with the death tolls used in the article and I believe that explaining it from my perspective might help. Undescribed's edit first updated the numbers based on this story by Wink News which has reported 61 deaths in Lee County. That is up from the 58 reported by WGCU from the Lee County Sherriff on October 6th. (An ABC News article confirms that the source for the 61 deaths is from the Lee County Sheriff's Office.) However, the source was not placed in the table and the numbers have been changed a few times in an attempt to fix this. I could try to fix it, but I am unsure what the actual total is and am struggling with figuring it out. Sarrail's NBC source puts the death toll at 135 people, but only reports 60 deaths in Lee County. That means that NBC is reporting four more deaths overall, but only two of them are in Lee County. (Presumably, one of the two deaths might be from Orange County which reported an additional death on the 12th.) The ABC source used above reports 127 Florida deaths with 61 of those being from Lee County. If correct, that would put the death toll to 138 overall when including the five in Cuba, the five in North Carolina, and the one in Virginia. Right now, the current source for the total in the table is a Twitter post by the WCCB saying that the total death toll is 137, but that was posted on back on October 7th when the Lee County total should have been 58. Additionally, the linked article by the WCCB lacks a death toll entirely. If we were to continue to use the WCCB's tweet, then that would put the death toll to 141 when counting the three deaths in Lee County and the one death in Orange County, which would be the highest report to my knowledge. --Super Goku V (talk) 23:50, 19 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I did some more digging and as far as I can tell, this is all of the counties that have reported deaths and their numbers: Charlotte: 24; Collier: 8; DeSoto: 1; Hardee: 4; Hendry: 2; Hillsborough: 2; Lake: 1; Lee: 61; Manatee: 3; Martin: 1; Monroe: 7; Orange: 2 Osceola: 3 Polk: 2; Putnam: 3; Sarasota: 7; Volusia: 5.  This puts the death total in Florida to 136 and the overall death total to 147.  If I missed a county, please feel free to note it here.  --Super Goku V (talk) 04:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

NOAA vs Private Sector Damage totals
, which “talk page discussion” are you referring to with the infobox damage total. Per this Use Aon or not? discussion In August-September (RfC was involved even), it was pretty clear that any source on the NOAA billion-dollar disaster list would use the NOAA damage total for US damage total. Albeit, Aon is not in question of use here, but same idea I believe since it is private sector vs NOAA. The outcomes of that discussion were the following:


 * 1) Aon damage totals are a reliable source for damage total information (RS Noticeboard discussion conclusion) and can be added to an article's content.
 * 2) Aon damage totals are acceptable for an articles/storms infobox if NOAA has not published a damage total.
 * 3) Aon damage totals are acceptable for an articles/storm infobox if a NOAA NCDC damage total is also present. This would have both damage totals in the infobox (format done to this article, Tornado outbreak of March 21–23, 2022.
 * 4) Aon damage totals are ok for an article's content (aka text portion of the article), but should not be added in the infobox if a NOAA Billion-Dollar Weather and Climate Diasters damage total is present, due to RS use of it over the Aon damage total.

Specifically, that fourth note is at play here since we do in fact have a NOAA damage estimate on the Billion-Dollar Weather and Climate Disasters of at least $50 billion, which means the infobox total should be > $50.2 billion ($50 billion for US total from NOAA and $200 million in Cuba per private companies as it is outside NOAA jurisdiction). I’m going to re-revert the infobox total back to the > $50.2 billion since there was decent consensus that NOAA totals in billion+ disasters are best for infoboxes. Elijahandskip (talk) 06:42, 25 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Sorry that you had to write all that up. J.boy.93 was the user that changed the infobox total while I was typing up my earlier edit.  I saw the note and confirmed at this talk page discussion that we needed to use the number listed in the text summary here.  I realized that the number needed to be changed back, but unfortunately I failed to actually correct the infobox number and thought that I had already done so when typing up my edit summary.  (I was juggling too much at once and should have just done a standard revert first before submitting my edit.)  Sorry for the trouble I caused you.  --Super Goku V (talk) 06:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah don’t worry! I’m just glad the death toll is actually caught up. You did one heck of a research job to find all those sources. That was huge! Thank you for that! Elijahandskip (talk) 13:34, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Edit problem
Hey, when I was editing something, everything got moved down below the picture and I can't fix it. Can someone take the time to fix it? 108.36.125.41 (talk) 21:30, 27 October 2022 (UTC)


 * What is the edit? Sarrail (talk) 21:39, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The page has been fixed, but it seems that you were trying to remove the Template:Citation needed span in the infobox regarding direct and indirect fatalities. I am willing to wait at least three more days for either the original source or a new source to appear before removing the text.  Are you sure that you want it removed from the article now?  --Super Goku V (talk) 22:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Damages in the Carolinas
Idk just wanna know what u think cuz I haven’t heard much North Carolina and South Carolina more just about Florida TheRealHurricaneIan (talk) 18:21, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

NOAA is still trying to figure out the damage from Hurricane Ian TheEasternEditer (talk) 16:21, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

NWS Melbourne story map
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/4a242bae868140a394c96bc2d9415e86 Mapsax (talk) 01:58, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

File:Hurricane Ian Landfall Radar Imagery.jpg
This file has no source, so I proposed its deletion. If you want to comment go to the. Pierre cb (talk) 23:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

So until then do i remove and replace the image on this page? TheEasternEditer (talk) 20:21, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:07, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hurricane Ian Landfall Radar Imagery.jpg

So until then do i remove and replace the image on this page? TheEasternEditer (talk) 20:21, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The process is automated. There's a period of 7 days to provide the correct license or else the bot removes the image automatically. – The Grid  ( talk )  19:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Landfall
nhc.noaa.gov said that Ian had 155 mph wind all the way up to landfall, 175 mph maximum wind speed estimated just before landfall according to 157 mph (CAT 5) wind speed in the LEFT hand side of the storm found by a dropsonde. Storm moving NE at 9 mph, NW quadrant 157 mph as of just before landfall Edit of edit (talk) 21:40, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Do you have proof about it? TheEasternEditer (talk) 18:16, 6 November 2022 (UTC)


 * A dropsonde in the left hand side of the storm just before landfall found 157 mph wind speed in the left hand side of the storm. This dropsonde which found category 5 wind was in the northwestern eyewall and the hurricane was moving northeast at 9 mph. 157 + 18 = 175. I remember the recon mission which dropped said dropsonde, it was just before florida landfall and only found category 3 wind in the southern and southeastern eyewall (RIGHT HAND SIDE). Edit of edit (talk) 09:35, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * This is purely original research, which we dont allow on Wikipedia. Noah Talk 12:11, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:36, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hurricane-Ian Joe-Biden Ron-DeSantis.png

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2022
The low pressure system related to the storm dumped 1.85 in of rain in NYC, please add to Hurricane Ian. https://www.accuweather.com/en/hurricane/tropical-storm-nicole-in-new-york-city/1276494 68.197.135.166 (talk) 15:12, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure   🌀 SuperTyphoonNoru 🌀  SuperTyphoonNoru (talk) 15:29, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I modified it. You can ask anytime if you'd like the modification.   🌀 SuperTyphoonNoru 🌀  SuperTyphoonNoru (talk) 15:33, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It should be stated the 1.85 inches was all the rain that fell exclusively on October 4. 47.23.63.18 (talk) 18:06, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌ That AccuWeather forecast is a forecast for remnants of Nicole, not Ian. Drdpw (talk) 18:47, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems that I missed the sentence that mentions Ian. But regardless, a one-day rain total of 1.85 inches is not in-and-of-itself noteworthy within the context of the 5-day weather event. It could be noteworthy depending on how it stacks up against other one day totals during the 5-day period. It could also be noteworthy if given as part of the city's 5-day total for the period. Any idea what the 5-day total was? Drdpw (talk) 21:36, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

oi you mentioned Nicole in your citation not Ian   🌀 SuperTyphoonNoru 🌀  SuperTyphoonNoru (talk) 03:02, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

9 More Deaths
The Florida MEC has upgraded their total from 130 to 139 fatalities, of which none of the extra nine are in Charlotte County. This means the total in Florida is now 155 and the total overall is 166. Maple Doctor (talk) 23:54, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I will add it in the page. TheEasternEditer (talk) 15:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

What's the source for the 215 MPH gusts?
Elija, please give a source. The edit will stay, but could you specify your source for those gusts? Thanks. Poodle23 (talk) 19:00, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned in the article's Meteorological history section. . It is really 216 mph gusts, but the infobox only goes by 5s. Elijahandskip (talk) 19:12, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I tried to add some sort of a note next to it, but the infobox is hardcoded to not allow notes and only accept a number. So the meteorologist history section can have the details about it, but yes, NOAA recorded 216 mph winds from Ian prior to landfall. Elijahandskip (talk) 19:13, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok. Thanks for specifying your source. Poodle23 (talk) 19:23, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Costliest New Image
, I wanted to get some other opinions about the new image you added. NOAA said Ian’s damage was over $50 billion, not near 100 billion. I think you should adjust the image some, especially since directly above it is the impact chart (deaths/damage total), which is for 50-67 billion, not 100 billion. Any other editors have any thoughts? Elijahandskip (talk) 05:27, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I can't "adjust" the image, but must follow the source's disclosure. Undoubtedly different organizations arrive at different estimates of damage based on differenet definitions of "damage"—a fact that we must live with. — RCraig09 (talk) 05:31, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Well in that case, I think the image should be entirely removed. NOAA, which is the official source for damage total information, never said anything remotely close to $100 billion, in fact, just a little over half that. Elijahandskip (talk) 05:37, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand the issue you raise. I'm assuming you think that NOAA is the "official" source because it's a governmental organization—a doubtful premise. Separately, RMS estimates 33% higher than NOAA, so there is already substantial disagreement. Without a supervening authority determining which source is most authoritative, it's not our place as Wikipedia editors to decide which is the most accurate. In any event, the purpose of the new bar chart is to compare Ian's cost to that of other events rather than to present absolute values. — RCraig09 (talk) 05:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * See also, the high range presented in List of disasters by cost. — RCraig09 (talk) 05:59, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Also: Calculating the Cost of Hurricane Ian: "Preliminary property damage estimates for Ian so far range from $42 billion to as much as $258 billion, with some landing in the middle." — RCraig09 (talk) 06:03, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I’m going to be dead honest. If you weren’t a long-time editor, I probably would be starting an SPI right now. Over the last 6 months, there have been a ton of discussions in WikiProject Weather about NOAA vs non-NOAA (especially Aon (company)) damage totals. Most ended in the same general consensus of non-NOAA totals being accepted in articles, but not to supersede NOAA damage totals & a general consensus that NOAA is the official source of meteorological information for the United States. Some are mute now due to a persistence sock master pushing the exact same style of idea you are (that is, NOAA not being official for US meteorological information). In one of the discussions, an admin, who also worked in the insurance industry, basically said both should be included as both are reliable sources for their own respective things. NOAA looks at the direct damages, while (in this case Aon, but same applies for all these insanely high damage totals) the others look at direct plus outcome style damages (like wages lost). Either way, your perspective on NOAA not being official is 100% incorrect. Elijahandskip (talk) 06:15, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see how NOAA would be respected, but you've explained the underlying sub-issue that I first raised: different definitions of "damage" that are explained further here. It's your own personal judgment as a Wikipedia editor that other damage totals are "insanely high". However, it's rational to include consequential damages like business interruption as "true" costs to society. The admin was correct in noting both are reliable even if one is considered more "official". — RCraig09 (talk) 06:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think both perspectives are valuable here: @RCraig09, your linked article provides a good rationale for the subjectivity of all disaster damage cost estimates and the wildly varying ranges that are arrived upon. But @Elijahandskip is right, I think, that NOAA's total is a good default (for things like the infobox or comparisons across multiple hurricanes) because they are a widely known and trusted organization with consistency across natural disasters. I think the image is okay to include WITH a caveat in the caption, noting that NGOs and other parties have arrived at even higher cost estimates than NOAA's official figure. Having a range of figures, with organizations provided as sources for either end—that's fine. Two wildly different numbers presented as equal fact, not so much. Penitentes (talk) 14:18, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added content to the image caption to contextualize the data source. I think that this addition deals with objections. — RCraig09 (talk) 21:04, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * New wording works for me. I have removed the factual accuracy template at the top. Elijahandskip (talk) 21:12, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * :-) — RCraig09 (talk) 21:19, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I like the caption. Good work, everybody. Penitentes (talk) 16:51, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Sub-articles
We have separate sections for each part of Florida, and this article is large, so could we make a “Effects of Hurricane Ian in Florida” and maybe a “Meteorological history of Hurricane Ian”? 2600:4041:474:D00:687F:ED77:733D:B4F7 (talk) 02:27, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It’s long, but it’s not yet unmanageable. Let’s wait until it hits 60 kB, per WP:SIZERULE. I expect it to be coming shortly. 71.125.62.146 (talk) 21:07, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

We've already pasted 60 kB. Should we start? TheEasternEditer (talk) 15:19, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
 * We have not passed 60 lab. The readable prose size, which is what matters, is only 44 kB. 72.80.245.12 (talk) 17:54, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Effects of Hurricane Ian in Florida and Meteorological history of Hurricane Ian (split proposal)
I think we should make an separate articles, I think the article is long enough for these articles. PopularGames (talk) 01:33, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Effects of Hurricane Ian in Florida and Oppose Meteorological history of Hurricane Ian: Strickly speaking section sizes, the impact section overall does exceed 63,000 bytes, with 40,700 of those for Florida impacts. On the other hand, the entire meteorological history section is only 16,000 bytes. While that is a little large for a section size, splitting that off would most likely make a start/C class article without much chance for improvement. An impacts split article would have the potential for B class or higher. So consider this a support for an effects split article, but a strong oppose to a meteorological history article. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:24, 21 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Support I think the exact damages are still being calculated, but with Ian being confirmed to be at least the third costliest Atlantic hurricane on record (only behind Katrina and Harvey, with the two having their own wiki pages specifically dedicated to effects and their meteorological history), I personally do not see any reason to not create similar kinds of wiki pages for this hurricane. At the very least, we should wait until more reliable info is obtained regarding those two wiki page types. 128.239.205.148 (talk) 02:25, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The damages are not still being calculated per see. NOAA already gave the official damage total of $112.9 billion for the US, and Cuba had $200 million in damage, equalling the $113.1 billion damage total listed, so that specific idea that damages are still be calculated is not correct. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:23, 21 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose both per WP:SIZERULE since the prose size of the whole article is only 40k bytes. See Noah Talk 02:38, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Noah. wxtrackercody (talk · contributions) 02:43, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support I do agree with splitting the article because the article is large enough to sustain separate articles, although, the damages are still being calculated. But, I do think that there could be more information once the article is split, then we can gather enough information to sustain with both articles if necessary. User:Animem 1 talk 04:21, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The damages are not still being calculated per see. NOAA already gave the official damage total of $112.9 billion for the US, and Cuba had $200 million in damage, equalling the $113.1 billion damage total listed, so that specific idea that damages are still be calculated is not correct. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:23, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Understandable, thank you. Animem 1 (talk) 19:11, 21 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose The article is too small as it is for America’s 3rd costliest Hurricane. More information has to be added about the impacts before we can even think about splitting off any material. 134.6.245.131 (talk) 18:18, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per WP:SIZERULE mentioned previously. Though, a draft could be worked on in the meantime. – The Grid  ( talk )  15:05, 22 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose: The article is alright to read with it being over 40k bytes (per WP:SIZERULE), and even though the "Impacts" part is pretty large (in my opinion), Most articles (such as Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Hugo) still keep the large size for "Impacts", even though it is separated from its own article (Hurricane Hugo doesn't have a separated article, but it still haves a lot of information from "Impact".). Keep it where its at, unless somebody very stubborn changes it. ☭MasterWolf-Æthelwulf☭ (=^._.^= ∫) 19:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose for Now: While I support the idea of separating out an impacts article in the future, we've had nearly 20 years (in the case of Katrina to study the impacts in minute detail, however I don't think we've had enough time, let alone even an after-season Tropical Cyclone Report from the NHC to really go over the specific impacts in another article yet. I think that in time, a new article specifically dedicated to the impacts within Florida will be necessary as this is the costliest Hurricane ever to strike the state and those minute details from area to area all along the coast of Charlotte and Lee Counties in SW Florida, to the Major impacts of wind damage and freshwater flooding in Sarasota and Manatee Counties in Greater Tampa Bay/West-Central FL, to the flooding in Inland regions such as the Heartland, Orlando Metro, and even as far as Volusia on the East Coast. There will be a need there, but we really don't know quite yet what the total affects were. This is also speaking from experience, as I live in Southern Sarasota County and we still haven't even finished the initial cleanup in some areas yet — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yinzer1 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I don't believe we need to split the article in two, however a standalone article which goes further into detail about Ian's effects in Florida would be okay, but I do not think its worthy of splitting it in two. Sria-72 (talk) 02:15, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Just what to note that is somewhat is being discussed. A split won't mean a full copy and paste to the new and former article. A summary will still be done. – The Grid  ( talk )  16:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree here with this. We should have a broken out article discussing the impacts on Florida at some point. Yinzer1 (talk) 21:09, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Cuba Death Toll
Cuba's report to the WMO Hurricane Committee has been uploaded and includes a revised death toll in Cuba of 7 people (4 direct 3 indirect). Should this be added now or are we supposed to wait until the WMO Hurricane Committee actually meets? The WMO Hurricane Committee country reports are here (needs to be accessed through the WMO website in order view the files without logging in). MCRPY22 (talk) 17:52, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Ian was a cat 5 briefly
The NHC's Tropical Cyclone Report says so.

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/data/tcr/AL092022_Ian.pdf 47.160.137.81 (talk) 13:19, 3 April 2023 (UTC)


 * "At 0200 UTC 28 September, the eye of the 110-kt hurricane passed directly over the Dry Tortugas. Ian intensified further later than morning and reached its peak intensity of 140 kt (a category 5 hurricane) at 1200 UTC 28 September.
 * Environmental conditions became less favorable soon thereafter, and Ian weakened slightly during the next several hours before it made landfall on the barrier island of Cayo Costa, Florida, at 1905 UTC 28 September with an intensity of 130 kt. " 47.160.137.81 (talk) 13:21, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It has been updated. Noah Talk 13:47, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Table of the costliest hurricanes
On the table near aftermath, on the right side of the screen, it still shows Ian as a category 4 hurricane. I do not know what to do. Can someone fix it since I do not know what to do?  TomMasterReal  TALK 01:16, 13 April 2023 (UTC)


 * That's the landfall intensity, not peak intensity. Noah Talk 01:25, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ohhhhhhh my bad. Sorry about that.  TomMasterReal  TALK 01:47, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Effects on Hurricane Ian in Florida
I personally think that we should have an article about Hurricane Ian’s impacts in Florida as Florida was the area of worst impact from Hurricane Ian and there is enough detail to make an article about its impacts in Florida 2A00:23C4:CAB:D301:CDF7:8B98:E536:AD18 (talk) 15:06, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Consensus (February 2023 discussion) is to not create such an article, as the content in this article is not long enough to warrant a split. Drdpw (talk) 14:04, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2023
Remove a IBTrACS now in the wikidata 122.52.30.74 (talk) 02:07, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Tails   Wx  02:09, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ I just added Ian's IBTrACS ID to WikiData, so it shows up automatically in the infobox. This means the  parameter isn't needed anymore and I've removed it which I presume is what the IP was asking for (albeit prematurely). ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 14:28, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean, I didn't know what the IP was proposing to change since they never clarified what "Remove a IBTrACS now" was, but thanks for the change! Tails   Wx  14:35, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Reanalysis sentence placement
you were the B, and I did the R, and now the D, of WP:BRD. Please discuss and obtain consensus for the rearrangement. Jasper Deng (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Your new wording is not in fact more accurate. The NHC did not conclude a peak wind speed of 138 kt. They concluded a peak wind speed of 140 kt based on SFMR measurements of 137-138 kt. The two are not the same. Please discuss here and work out a compromise instead of continuing to edit war.--Jasper Deng (talk) 20:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I like that wording, and will incorporate it. Drdpw (talk) 21:31, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

New image.
I really think the image should be changed to this image. Ian reached its peak intensity in both maximum sustained winds and barometric pressure near 2022-09-28 12:00Z and maintained it until it started weakening a few hours later per these sources. Per WP:WPTC/IMG, a high-quality, true-color, visible satellite image should be used when necessary. The image provided matches all requirements and is closer to its mentioned peak strength. TheBigBookOfNaturalScience 📖 (💬/📜) 06:51, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree, the image used right now is clearly Ian as a Category 4 storm. KatoSlipping (talk) 22:04, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thirded. I think it's feasible that Ian was still a Category 5 by the time the current image was captured around 3 hours later, considering it was only down to 155 mph at 18z, but the suggested new image is higher quality anyway; in addition to Ian being within an hour of peak intensity, this image has a more balanced color palette, and one can see much more detail in the clouds around the eye, whereas the current image suffers from excessive brightness in that area (due to sun glare?). -- Dylan 620 (he/him · talk · edits) 22:22, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2023
Please add, under the elsewhere section, in the sentences about NYC impacts, that the Staten Island ferry was suspended on October 2. Source: https://abc7ny.com/amp/seastreak-ferry-service-new-york-jersey/12287765/ 63.76.154.130 (talk) 23:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. More specifically, please provide the specific phrase or sentence to be added and where it should be added. -- Pinchme123 (talk) 00:00, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ I went ahead and did this as it was clear enough what they wanted. However, the citation did not support the suggested edit. This is what I did instead: In New York, Seastreak ferry service suspended all service on October 2 until the next day due to high winds; however, Staten Island Ferry and NYC Ferry continued operations. Xan747 ✈️ 🧑‍✈️ 00:06, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

The last word of the article should be "earlier" not "later" regarding the timing of the hurricanes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6010:E301:90B5:13C:7416:5C16:EEB4 (talk) 03:20, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2023
Please change Widespread coastal flooding occurred along the Jersey Shore, with Sea Isle City receiving 8.14 inches (20.7 cm) of rain between October 1 and 3. In addition, Philadelphia set a daily precipitation record due to the storm on October 2, at 1.99 in (5.1 cm). to Widespread coastal flooding occurred along the Jersey Shore, with Sea Isle City receiving 8.14 inches (207 mm) of rain between October 1 and 3. In addition, Philadelphia set a daily precipitation record due to the storm on October 2, at 1.99 in (51 mm). because rainfall is commonly measured in millimeters, not centimeters. 74.101.92.237 (talk) 00:26, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ This matches better with the rest of the article. Closhund  /talk/  17:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2023
In the elsewhere section, please add at the end that the storm caused 1500 power outages in Connecticut, with 11% of Weston losing power. Source: https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Hundreds-without-power-in-CT-as-Hurricane-Ian-17481852.php 107.123.49.68 (talk) 16:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Nearly 1,500 power outages occurred across Connecticut, per the News-Times source. Tails   Wx  16:57, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2023
Please add in the preparations elsewhere section, after the information about the speedways, that Pigsah and Uwharrie National Forests closed due to the storm. Source: https://caldwelljournal.com/pisgah-and-uwharrie-national-forests-to-close-areas-in-anticipation-of-hurricane-ian/amp/ 166.198.251.69 (talk) 20:34, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please provide the Wikilinks for these items. Spintendo  23:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Split Florida impacts
This article is almost 170,000 bytes in size, very far past the recommending splitting size. Also, the Florida subsection has five level four subheadings which is a bit much. Therefore, I propose splitting it into Effects of Hurricane Ian in Florida. On top of this all, my medium level computer and decent internet are having heart attacks every time I attempt to load diffs. ✶Mitch 199811  ✶  00:08, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose Page size for splitting is determined using prose count, not wiki markup. The prose count is only 44k and thus shouldn't be split.
 * Noah</b>, AA<b style="color:#ff0000">Talk</b> 10:04, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Not to dispute your claim, but what program did you use to count it? ✶Mitch  199811  ✶  15:05, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Using Prosesize I get: "Prose size (text only): 42 kB (6761 words)". Per Article size, that's an acceptable amount in both word count and kB. That said, I'm not opposed to a split if there's the potential, and the will, for a decent separate article out of it. Penitentes (talk) 15:18, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Florida's impacts are indeed a very dominant part of what Hurricane Ian did. In fact, what happened in the state takes up almost half the article alone. A split seems necessary here. Chess  Eric  16:02, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Florida constituted the vast majority of the damage. Also, as Hurricane Noah said, the prose isn't very long at this point. The Florida section could still be expanded a lot without being unreasonably long. I think Florida's subsections all make sense, and if there is any one section that should definitely be expanded, it's Florida's aftermath, since there is a whole lot of damage that needed (and still needs) to be fixed/repaired/replaced. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 19:59, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Before this closes, is there any way to mark that there have been two split suggestions, like how AFDs are marked in the talk page shell? ✶Qux  yz  ✶  19:37, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Use  Spintendo  23:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spintendo Is it ok that this is a split and not a move? ✶Qux  yz  ✶  03:33, 1 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Support I want to say Ian has been a unique experience for Florida. As much as Fort Myers and Fort Myers Beach had direct impacts, there was flooding throughout the central portion of the state in the days following. The Southwest Florida direct impact is just one part of the effects it did to the state: the Sanibel Island bridge collapse, the Fort Myers Beach destruction, downtown Fort Myers flooded, flooding of the Myakka and Peace Rivers, the comparison/difference to Charley from 2004, etc possibly could not be sufficiently summarized without leaving a lot of details out. I see the section is 42 kB so how much more text would suffice to not split? – The Grid  ( talk )  14:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose prose is not big enough to warrent an article. Catfurball (talk) 16:51, 17 February 2024 (UTC)