Talk:Hurricane Zeta

Note about Portal of Current Events
The Hurricane has multiple things listed on Portal:Current events for October 27 and October 28. No doubt more will be listed as it makes landfall. Anyone is welcome to add some more info as more things happen. (Current Event WikiProject Coordinator) Elijahandskip (talk) 16:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Nominated for ITN
Just a heads up to other editors, the article has been nominated to Wikipedia's In The News (ITN) section. You can participate in the nomination vote Here. (Current Event WikiProject Coordinator) Elijahandskip (talk) 14:42, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Records section
Okay first thing, nobody here is doubting Zeta was a record breaking storm. There is a point though where "records" start becoming trivia directed at a fanbase audience rather than general readership. The section needs to be looked at from a neutral point of view through third party sources that are reporting on it (notability). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:57, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Most of it seems like trivia. Earliest Xth named storm is always worth mentioning, but I don't think local monthly records carry much weight (e.g. the most named storms to hit Quintana Roo in October). I'm on the fence about the late-season intensity records. It would certainly be worth mentioning if it were an all-time record, but "most intense since X" is less significant. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:28, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I re-added the tag as we need reliable third party sources to explain these records as well. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:24, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of removing the entire thing per WP:TRIVIA. It really doesn't seem necessary when half the records there seem quite contrived with vague qualifiers such as "this late in the year". Some records, like those about the Louisiana and US landfalls, are better suited for the season article instead. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 04:39, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I haven't contributed one thing to the Records section and another one of those discussions has again arisen. Really, make up your mind.--CyclonicallyDeranged (talk) 08:24, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I think removing the section sounds good, though some of the records could still stand to be mentioned throughout the prose. TornadoLGS (talk) 15:29, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I have restored mention of Zeta's "earliest formation" distinction to where it was before the Records section was added. Drdpw (talk) 18:01, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The records section is now removed per consensus here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:08, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

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Lead section
Okay I was reverted with the edit summary "the first sentence needs something in it." So I posted both differences below for editors to compare:


 * Hurricane Zeta was the twenty-seventh named storm and eleventh hurricane of the 2020 Atlantic hurricane season."


 * versus


 * Hurricane Zeta was the record-tying sixth hurricane to hit the United States, the record fifth named storm to strike Louisiana, and the strongest hurricane ever to move over New Orleans.

The one above is the one I would prefer as it is a complete sentence that skips trivial mentions. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:50, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Relevant (more general) discussion from six months ago. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 09:02, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

48 MPH
before becoming extratropical, it moved 48 MPH.. Please add. --67.85.37.186 (talk) 00:17, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Not necessary. 🌀 Hurr icane Geek 🌀 {talk|contribs}} 18:09, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Why not? It would be ok mentioning the acceleration just prior to becoming extratropical. Hurricane   Covid  (contribs) 02:46, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

$13.7 million unsourced
I’d love to see a source for that. Most likely it did more and that is some arbitrary estimate. Can we put it at “unknown” for now? WesternAtlanticCentral (talk) 13:33, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It's sourced in the impact section for Jamaica; a reliable estimate for the US and Mexico is not available as of writing this. I added a note to the infobox to clarify that the $13.7m is just Jamaica. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 15:04, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Effects in Louisiana article
Damage is estimated at up to $2.8 billion in the state. One life was lost. That's criteria for an article. --WesternAtlanticCentral (talk) 16:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * There's no real criteria for storm sub-articles. The main thing is fleshing out the main article until it's too long, at which point a sub-article would be appropriate. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose article. Compared to other storms that hit Louisiana with effects articles, Zeta is below the threshold (usually needs to have >$4-5 billion damage and/or 10 deaths).b~ Destroyeraa 🌀 19:10, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Categories
Since Zeta was an extratropical storm after Virginia, all categories such Hurricane in Delaware or Hurricane in New England should be removed.

Pierre cb (talk) 13:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Both of those categories state that "These hurricanes affected X." Nowhere does it mention that the systems had to be tropical at that point, as long as it affected the area in some way. Qwerty   325  16:36, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Also note that, as an example, Hurricane Sandy is also on the category Hurricanes in New England, even though it didn't go very close to New England as well as being an extratropical cyclone when affecting New England. Qwerty   325  21:41, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Not very Logical. Furthermore, Sandy was still tropical when it passed South of Connecticut and Massachussetts. It only became extratropical close to the coast of NJ, so theoretically any effect on Southern New England and NYC by this very large hurricane were tropical in nature. Pierre cb (talk) 03:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Another example would be Tropical Storm Barry (2007), which became extratropical near Florida, nowhere near New England, but still is on the category Hurricanes in New England. Literally any cyclone that was tropical at some point and affected New England in any way would be added to the category. And Zeta fits that category: the snow from the storm caused numerous crashes and power outages in New England, so it affected New England and therefore would be added to the category. Qwerty   325  03:26, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Lifespan
Zeta dissipated November 2? Are you sure about that? The NHC says that it became an extratropical cyclone shortly after it came off the East coasts, not late October. 🌀 Hurr icane Geek 🌀 {talk} 21:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The storm became extratropical on October 29th, but the storm continued across the Atlantic, not dissipating until 11/2. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 21:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh,ok. 🌀 Hurr icane Geek 🌀 {talk|contribs}} 14:08, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * For the record, as per the Zeta TCR, Zeta dissipated over the Atlantic by 06:00 UTC on October 30, a couple of hundred miles east of Atlantic City, New Jersey. Cheers. Drdpw (talk) 03:37, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Class?
It lies either at Start or C class. And both are technically valid. C says C-Class storm articles typically have most of the content and structure needed for a tropical cyclone storm article. Most new tropical cyclone storm articles that follow the project's style guidelines and are mostly well-referenced are preliminarily rated C-Class. However, C-Class articles often require extensive cleanup. They may place undue weight on certain facets of the storm, rely on outdated information (particularly in the meteorological history and casualty/damage figures), suggest subtle original research, cite broken links, feature some stretches of unencyclopedic prose, or contain unreferenced statements. C-Class articles touch upon all facets of a storm and all areas affected, but lack detail about these facets., and Start says Start-Class articles are generally incomplete in their coverage of the storm. While it may meet most of the project's style guidelines and follow the basic layout for a tropical cyclone article, there may be missing information of pertinent content relating to the storm. The main affected areas and aspects of the storm's evolution may not be covered in adequate detail, while other secondarily affected areas may be missing entirely. Storm articles whose prose and depth of content do not reflect (or "do justice to") the notability of a storm or the severity of its impacts are often rated Start-class. Extensive cleanup is needed to bring these articles to par, and there are likely several sentences that are not referenced by reliable and verifiable sources. References are often bare links, and the tone of the article may not comply with the manual of style. However, Start-Class articles offer a more inclusive overview of the storm and at the very least acknowledge the entirety of the storm's scope.. I see why B is too high, even though thats what Rater suggested, but definitely Start seems a little low. --Hurricane Tracker 495 17:19, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * C is fine. I only changed it because it was what it was before, and B was definitely wrong. The lead, MH, and impacts only need some cleanup, but preps need to be more well made. Stay safe, Cyclone   Toby  19:04, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Category 3?
Hey. I have been seeing information from some sources saying zeta was actually a category 3 hurricane. Shouldn't this information be added to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by IBlazeCat (talk • contribs) 13:20, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Can you provide some of these sources? We won't be putting in any intensity estimates from Force Thirteen. TornadoLGS (talk) 19:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

This wasn’t from force thirteen, I’ll have to find the source I found again IBlazeCat (talk) 12:34, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Alright, so seeing that post season reanalysis has confirmed the upgrade to category 3, I’ll close off this discussion. IBlazeCat (talk) 12:00, 12 May 2021 (UTC)