Talk:Istishhad

Tag
Unless I see some complaint about this article in the comiing month I'm going to remove the POV tag. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

updated religious disagreement

 * I've made some edits to add new material, group the religious disagreement section to allow it to flow better, and remove material that was sourced to TV channels (unless someone has an internet link where we can view these old shows or where they've been archived, citing a tv program from 10 years ago doesn't strike me as a RS... just as hearing a person say something at a speech would be considered primary source/research).


 * I'm also not in love with the name of this subsection, religious disagreement but can't think of anything better for now. Perhaps Muslim Clerical Opinions? Course, I did add some research from the pew center on public opinions as well now.


 * Finally, the link for the azhar sheikh tantawy and his flip flopping opinion is dead. I haven't removed it cause it seems a credible statement and fits with the views of others like al-qardawi, but if someone could track down a verifiable, RS that would be good.  Otherwise, if one doesn't exist, we might have to revisit. Kitkat21 (talk) 10:30, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Integrating Article
On further reading of the article, it seems that martyrdom operation section and the disagreement subsection are partially redundant. I'm planning to reorganize, so that there is a brief definition of istishhad, how it fits within Islamic rules of war, then the various opinions of scholars. Also,

In an unrelated point, I don't think Noah feldman need be defined as a non-muslim scholar. I understand what is being communicated, but it seems less than appropriate to report someone's religion status. We can term him an Islamic studies scholar which should remove any concern about confusing people with him being a Muslim who is also a scholar of Islam. Kitkat21 (talk) 23:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Changed lead
I removed the lead sentence, which had read, "Istishhad (استشهاد) means the act of or the seeking of martyrdom in Islam." This was sourced to Islamic-dictionary.com, in which the definition is listed as, simply, "The act of Martyrdom." Thus, "... or the seeking of ..." had been added without cause or merit. To be candid, this incorrect translation of "istishhad", making it out to be either the seeking of martyrdom, an act with the goal of becoming a martyr, et cetera, is almost always made deliberately, a conscious error designed to color the audience's understanding of the term and those to whom it is being applied in whatever context the term has been erroneously translated in. I'm not sure if that was the case here, since I can't divine the internal motivations of another editor, especially one whose identity I don't know. Nevertheless, it's an inaccurate translation, and while the term istishhad has a unique role in discourse about Islam and political violence in the present day, it is itself an Arabic word whose meaning extends beyond being related solely to Islam. I have replaced the lead sentence with the contextually-relevant definitions from Hans Wehr's Arabic-English dictionary, which is essentially regarded as the preeminent Arabic-English dictionary available. I believe the second sentence of the lead ("In recent years the term has been said to "emphasize... heroism in the act of sacrifice" rather than "victimization," and has "developed... into a military and political strategy,"[2] often called "martyrdom operations".") adequately explains the contemporary transformation in meaning the term has undergone in much of its current usage, such that that explanation warrants are more accurate definition in the opening sentence than what had previously been there. The full set of definitions (as Arabic words often have multiple, disparate definitions which depend upon the context in which they're used) on page 572 of the 4th edition is as follows: "إستشهاد istishhad citation, quotation; death of a martyr; death of a hero, heroic death; martyrdom". I would be happy to discuss this further if anyone objects to my edit. BostonFenian (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Claiming "Martyrdom operations are justified and lawful, according to Islam" with one arbitrary reference is very far from proving that "Islam" in general holds this view.--Quinbus Flestrin (talk) 10:41, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
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