Talk:Italian-American cuisine

Hyphen
The vast majority of ethnic American article, including the parent of this one Italian American, do not employ the hyphen. I am going to be bold and remove them an move this article to reflect the naming structures of the other articles. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * So uhhh... I think the adjective should use the hyphen, but the noun (refering to the people) should not. Anyways, later editors have rectified this issue, although someone decided to use an en dash for some reason (cf. MOS:DUALNATIONALITIES). --Artoria2e5 🌉 10:19, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Marinara sauce or Salsa al pomodoro
There is a basic difference between the two sauces: the marinara uses origan but the salsa al pomodoro uses basil. In addition the marinara has got garlic instead salsa al pomodoro may have garlic or onion.

The difference is evident: marinara has a strong taste (garlic lightly fried in oil with origan with addition of tomatoes after some minutes) but the salsa al pomodoro is sweet (onions lightly fried in oil with addition of tomatoes and at the end addition of basil). In the south of Italy the garlic substitutes onions in the salsa al pomodoro. --Ilario (talk) 19:03, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you mean oregano? --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 22:35, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Emeril Lagasse
As far as I know, Emeril Lagasse does only limited work in Italian-American food, and focuses on Creole. Creole is primarily an adaptation of French cuisine. Mrschwen (talk) 07:04, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

On another note, the term American Chop Suey is very regional. Most Americans would have no idea what its referring to, and would assume the Chinese-American dish, not Macaroni and Beef. Mrschwen (talk) 07:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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"Cicerchiata" meaning
I've changed the explanation of the term "cicerchiata", which isn't "chickpea shaped" but "blue sweet pea dish": cicerchia is actually a different kind of legume, typically mediterranean. https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/cicerchia.1833024/ Sorry for my English, I'm Italian and still learning.

93.37.83.130 (talk) 20:48, 7 June 2018 (UTC) Ari


 * https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicerchiata#Etimologia_del_nome somewhat supports the theory. Chickpeas belonging to genus Cicer might explain the confusion. Artoria2e5 🌉 10:05, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Theoretical statement?
@User:Airplane Master So you made this revert. I am aware of the underlying grammar but "the meatballs would have been much smaller". Hmm, if what? or when? You wrote: "Works perfectly for theoretical statements." But do we need a theoretical statement here?

The article reads:

* Spaghetti and meatballs – a combination that was allegedly present in 19th century southern Italy, albeit the meatballs would have been much smaller, differently made and served with other kinds of pasta.

Does it mean that if we wanted to make spaghetti and meatballs today but with the original 19-century recipe, the meatballs would be much smaller compared to ordinary meatballs that we eat nowadays? If so, then it means that in the 19-century the meatballs were indeed much smaller. So the hypothetical clause "would have been" is unnecessary here. The meatballs just much smaller. Could you please explain your reasoning? 85.193.228.103 (talk) 14:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * In fact, on Wikipedia we try to avoid statements like those ("allegedly") if there is not a direct source for the claim. So, I will be removing the entire sentence to avoid a WP:TRUE situation. - I am the Airplane Master (talk) 23:30, 2 September 2020 (UTC) of chess.


 * The source was poorly cited, but easily enough found in Google. There is no need for "allegedly", which was added by an anon a year ago. The source (strangely, added in the same edit) clearly states that the Italian-American version is based on Neapolitan festival cooking which used smaller ("walnut-sized") meatballs as well as other ingredients. Apparently the anon found a source but didn't believe it.... --Macrakis (talk) 00:53, 3 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I did not expect that my edit would lead to such an improvement. Good job. Thank you both. By the way, I must try this dish :-) 85.193.228.103 (talk) 23:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Migration in World History
— Assignment last updated by Dcoakleyoc (talk) 01:57, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Add new information regarding origins of cuisine
Hi everyone!

I am considering making some additions to this page, specifically under the "Traditional Influences" section. My aim is to better reflect the differences between Italian-American cuisine and traditional Italian cuisine. Italian migrants arrived in the United States in large numbers between 1890 and the 1920s, and they continued to prepare the same Italian dishes they ate in their homeland as a means of preserving their national and cultural identity. However, these dishes underwent changes and took on a unique character of their own as Italian migrants took advantage of the economic prosperity and abundance of America. They incorporated foods such as meat, fish, fruit, cheese, and other foodstuffs that were beyond their means in Italy into their diet. I plan to add about three sentences on this topic, drawing on the Winter 1998 edition of "Italian Americana" by Carol Helstosky (already cited on this page) and Hasia Diner's "Hungering for America." Both authors are highly acclaimed and have won multiple awards for their books and articles. If anyone has any concerns or suggestions regarding this proposal, please do let me know. Thank you! Dcoakleyoc (talk) 21:31, 3 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Dcoakleyoc your instructor here :-) the sources you referenced in this section are newspaper articles, not the Helstosky and Diner sources you planned to use (and which I approved). I'm sure this was a technical error on your part but this means that the paragraph is unsubstantiated. I'm deleting it, but you're welcome to reinstate it with the correct sources if you want (hope you will :-)). Chapmansh (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am guessing from context that ":0" is supposed to be the Helstosky 1998 ref, and :1 is intended to be the Diner ref. I have no idea which specific page these refs should go to right now, but I think I can find them given some time.
 * Coincidentally I blurbed out a similar paragraph to the same effect, but using sources that are not as good (it's a Podcast, come on) and only focusing on rural S. Italian immigrants. The focus helps explain the many "red sauce" things in the US, but doesn't quite do N. Italian-influenced dishes justice. Artoria2e5 🌉 17:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Alright, most of 's content is now in the article, although with heavy rephrasing as I went off the tracks. When reading the two sources it becomes clear that there's much more stories to tell besides the traditional influence and the initial modification by American abundance. Gabaccia's article on cookbooks is especially interesting, as she points out that there's much knowledge buried in little-known community cookbooks waiting to be catalogued. I haven't checked the Summer volume https://www.jstor.org/stable/29776498 yet. --Artoria2e5 🌉 08:35, 2 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Aight, just did a pass over the summer volume. There are two articles by two authors of Italian-American community cookbooks, quite unlike the general academic discussion of the winter volume. I don't know how useful they can be right now. Artoria2e5 🌉 08:52, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Le lasagne e la besciamella
The original "lasagna" (or lasagne) was not  made with béchamel sauce. This is simply inaccurate. The earliest record for a recipe of lasagne dates to the 1400s. Béchamel was first invented in France in the 1700s an then introduced to Italy. The original recipes of Lasagne, prior to the 1700s, called for layers of lasagne pasta between various unspecified cheeses and meats. The idea that lasagne alla bolognese (aka with béchamel) typically found around Italy today is the "original" version is simply wrong. In all likelihood the Neapolitan version is actually a reminant of an older variety of the recipe. 31.27.183.59 (talk) 18:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I removed the word "original" as inaccurate according to the references at Lasagna. There is no need to get deep into the weeds of the origin in this article which is about Italian-American cuisine. Cullen328 (talk) 19:09, 12 May 2024 (UTC)