Talk:Jan Kochanowski

Misc
Ah, what a fitting line appeared above the editing window: ''Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Promotional articles about yourself, your friends, (...)''. "... and your family and coat-of-arms", we might add, having looked at Gustavo's job in this article. Gustavo tried to do the same in plwiki, first spamming all possible places with an image of his coat-of-arms, then inventing a pseudo-infobox in order to smuggle the graphic into articles that got reverted, then, in the case of Jan Kochanowski, creating fiction: the poet is never referred to as "Jan Korwin Kochanowski". Please stay alert to Gustavo's promotional spam, here and elsewhere in enwiki. There's nothing "noble" in it, I'm afraid. I reverted his changes. Bansp 09:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Noble and innoble
I agree, I did a mistake, I should write “Jan Kochanowski” and not “Jan Korwin Kochanowski” in the en:wiki. I am sorry and I will change the name.

Is that all? What else is wrong? Was not he a Polish szlachcic? Was not he from Herb Korwin? Did not I put the right father and mother’s names? Did the places and dates of birth and dead are wrong?

The szablon:infobox,(in pl:wiki), well I just copied it to one from (I quote) “24 lis 2005” (I joined pl:wiki in “4 lut 2006”)... So what is the matter?

Heraldry is just a hobby to me. Some time ago I put the coat of arms images in a large number of Polish personalities in pl:wiki. (From a lot of different coat of arms, not just mine...) They told me that was not correct to put the coat of arms from people who lived after 1939, so I did.

Nevertheless Jan Korwin Kochanowski or Jan Kochanowski herbu Korwin (is the same thing) was a man from the XVI c.... so? Is this simply a problem of social class? - No it is just History - I am social-democrat myself...

Perhaps it is still a matter of controversies in modern Poland, but what about the en:wiki? I do believe you did go to far my fellow Bansp! --Gustavo Szwedowski de Korwin 08:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Having looked at several requests in your user talk in pl, asking you to stop putting references to your coat-of-arms all around the place (incidentally, your user talk lacks edit history), as well as having watched little edit battles in plwiki bios centering around the COA, I find it hard to believe that you made an unintentional mistake in Kochanowski's name. Although, as you say, the two ways of spelling the name are almost equivalent, Kochanowski is nowhere in the literature referred to as "Jan Korwin Kochanowski" (and a note to those who don't understand Polish: what google shows is pages about a conteporary Polish actor by that name), and in that sense you attempted to create fiction here rather than describe the state of affairs. The rest is fluff -- a pseudoinfobox repeating the data from the article plus a huge image of your coat-of-arms. I will not revert the pseudoinfobox again, because I leave this decision, together with an inspection of your edits in search of self-promotion, to more frequent editors of enwiki.
 * Another thing is the comparison of my well-described revert of the pl version of this article with the methods used by the communist system, which you posted on Roo's talk page. Such remarks don't touch me, cause they are basically a version of Godwin's rule, but it might be taken as in some way significant that, in their context, you chose to address me as "your fellow Bansp".
 * Regards, Bansp 11:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Following this discussion
Only to put this discussion in its full context I quote my dialog with WRoo72:

1- :Please do not create any "templates" within articles that only duplicate already existing informations, there is no need to put a picture of your coat of arms in every possible place, a link from within an article is enough. Regards, Michał "Stalowy Kangur" Rosa &#9993; 06:07, 29 lip 2006 (CEST)

2- I wrote to him a little angry: O.K. You rule. Best regards

So he answered:
 * Ah, I only wish I could rule, unfortunately I come from a poor peasant family and I can only dream about ruling anything or anyone :) Anyway, thanks for understanding.  Regards, Michał "Stalowy Kangur" Rosa &#9993; 06:38, 29 lip 2006 (CEST)

Stalowy Kangur Rosa is also: Wikipedysta:Roo72

3- I remade the infobox erasing the Image of Korwin Coat of Arms and immediately send the following to WRoo72:

Dear Roo72, I am sorry to be something rude last night. I was mad since I thought that my work was well done. It was not my intention to hurt anybody’s democratic feelings. I support myself a Left Democratic Alliance (a Tony Blair like party) in my own country. I am a modern man with an open mind. So they were my father and my grandpa.

I just was trying to use the Polish nobility template (infobox) in use in en:wiki. Not only in someone from my own clan, but in any.

You will notice that I remake it without the Coat of Arms Image. I hope it is O.K. If it is not, please just write me and I will fix the page myself or fix it yourself if you like.

Best regards, my friend.

4- I realized that in the interim WBansp erased the new infobox. - Angry I wrote him again:

Too late, Wikipedysta:Bansp decided for you and me... I believed the Peoples Polish Rep. was already ended. I was wrong.

(All of this was in the pl:wiki) This is the starting of this astonishing inter:wiki persecution. What can I say?

The infobox in question is commonly used in en:wiki. I put the coat of arms images in a big number of articles about Category:Polish nobility, from very different Coat of Arms, no just mine. I am doing the same thing in fr:wiki, (for example: Armorial de la Noblesse polonaise) and I will do it in es:wiki as soon as possible. --Gustavo Szwedowski de Korwin 03:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Vernacular
There is no such thing as his abandonment of Latin, he wrote in Latin all his life. XIX century Polish philologists had a contempt to Latin and they just wanted their literature to speak in it's "national" tongue, that is Polish. But the facts say something contrary and we know that writing in Latin played an important role to him during his entire life. Among others, Wacław Walecki attempts to reintroduce "Latin Kochanowski" to the public, a recent bilingual edition being the best prove.Kameal (talk) 23:52, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Not Shakespeare
There's a line that compares him to Shakespeare at the end of the article, but can we really say that? No, we can't. Because that is speculation. I believe this is more a way of comparing someone relatively famous (Jan) with someone wildly famous (William) in an effort to heap un-cited praise and conjecture. It just seems like something I'd see in the Jan Kochanowski gift shop, instead of a real meaningful sentiment. Since activity is from 2006 on this page, I'll assume no one will readily change it, so I will. I hereby claim my intention to delete the line (that has no source) comparing him to be as great as Shakespeare. Fadedroots (talk) 04:54, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

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"the creation of Polish-language verse forms"
The reference for what is called "his main achievement" does not support the text. The reference was added much later, the original text seems to date to 2009 and was added by @Nihil novi and @Kameal (inactive since 2011, sadly). I am having veryfing this with other soruces. Can either of you (Nihil novi is still active) help and provide a reference or rewrite it, or should we remove this? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:31, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Update: reliable reference found Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:58, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I've today again copyedited the "Jan Kochanowski" article.
 * I don't know what might be the authority for the second sentence of the last paragraph of the "Influence" section: "One of his major achievements was the creation of Polish-language verse forms that made him a classic for his contemporaries and posterity."
 * In any case, it seems a fairly innocuous assertion.
 * Nihil novi (talk) 06:24, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I see you've now found that assertion's source where the footnote had said it was.
 * Best, Nihil novi (talk) 06:39, 28 August 2023 (UTC)