Talk:Jeff Weise

Untitled
Most discussion surrounding this is taking place over on Talk:Red Lake High School massacre.


 * This article ought to be merged with the main article about this tragedy. Redux 17:08, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Please see the vote at Talk:Red Lake High School massacre to decide the existence and content of the three articles. violet/riga (t) 20:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Angel of Death
Perhaps he had an idea of Josef Mengele AKA "Angel of Death" when he gave himself a name, "Angel of Death" anyone verify that? hard to prove though -- WB 01:16, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, the name given to Josef Mengele was why he picked that name. He posted on nazi.org forums when they were still up Derpian (talk) 09:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Pic of Weise
Does it voilate possible copyright issues if the image at http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/22/school.shooting/index.html is uploaded to wiki? need some adivce Oblivious 01:43, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Humm, it looks to me that this image is a family photo. If that's the case, neither CNN nor any photographer or news agency can claim copyrights over it.  The owner of the copyright would be whoever it was who took the photo.  So the question is: has that person claimed copyrights over the image?  I highly doubt it, but in the end, we can never be absolutely certain.  The image does have some sort of caption printed on the bottom righthand side of it.  I don't know what that word stands for, it could just be an indication of origin for the image.  I'd say the image could be uploaded and used (it's being used by every broadcast on the incident, so I doubt it's restricted), but it would be nice to get rid of that caption.  Before you upload it, however, I suggest you wait a little longer for the outcome of the vote that's being taken to decide whether the three separate articles that we have on this subject will be merged or if they'll stay separated.  It could save you some work.  Regards, Redux 03:23, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jeff in 5th grade
I just wanted to make sure that the picture I added of Jeff Weise's 5th grade yearbook headshot is wiki-legal. I included the whole row he was in so you could see his name "Jeffrey Weise", printed in the far right column. I blacked out the names of the other two students for privacy reasons. If any of you have a better way I should do this let me know; I can take another picture, have it adjusted in Paint Shop, and get it back on in two minutes.
 * why don't you mosaic out the face of other two students, it'd be helpful to further protect their privacy.   Wareware 05:43, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, the other two students should be rough pixelated. Squash 05:50, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I, too, agree about pixelating the other two Oblivious 06:56, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion, I thought about doing this the first time when I was blacking out their names but I thought that the pixelation might deteriorate the picture from the subject matter. But you're probably right, the other two people deserved to be kept private. And for some reason the thumbnail doesn't show my changes.-- 14:27, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Good work, the thumbnail appears to have updated now. If an admin happens to pass by they might want to delete the previous unpixellated version of the image as it still exists and is publically accessible, even if it isn't displayed on the article page. &mdash; Trilobite (Talk) 20:53, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Could the picture at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/0323051inside1.jpg or the same shot, used in a collage, at http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/redlake_template.gif be used? It's a lot nicer image, and more recent... trishymouse 24 Mar 2005
 * I'm not sure how well that picture would fit in with the artical, because as far I as I know, that was just his MSN profile avatar or something. Another picture that we could consider adding to the artical is capt.mnmg10103232000.school_shooting_mnmg101.jpg which was featured on Drudge's site for the last couple of days. Again, even though these are more recent, sticking to photographers headshots are probably best.-- 00:13, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm extremely glad that you thought of blanking out the names of the students beside him, there are information that is useful, and then there are those that are not so much, and the people listed beside him falls into the 2nd category, and their privacy is important. I'm also glad of the mosaic thing, but since their pictures were only beside his, because of the ABC of names, why don't we just black out the entire squares of the other 2 student's portraits? - T'Sura (2006-March-18, 7am Eastern)

Black and white madness
Very sick animated clip made by Jeff in 2004 added. Guess if this guy had ever grown up, he'd become a terrorist and kill dozens. --Anonymous

I've seen those kind of animations before, and I'm sure that not *everyone* who makes one is a murderer. --King Hajj

I just watched the clip, and I counted how many times the character in it fired his guns. He fired it exactly 10 times (including the suicide), which is how many people Weise killed (included himself) --MeanMrMustard

Off site sources
Someone should archive and mirror all the off-site sources, especially the kid's zombie story. I don't imagine the ezboards they are on will remain up for very long. User:MeanMrMustard
 * I think JeffWeise.com did a pretty good job of mirroring all of his Internet postings.-- 02:21, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

JeffWeise.com was a great site - Why has it so suddenly dissapeared?

Added article to Newgrounds
I added the article to Category:Newgrounds coz thats where he first uploaded his flash movies.

Ridiculous because...
I removed this line. It had been added to a quote, even though Weise did not say it. We shouldn't speculate about possible future actions of a National Socialist government. -Willmcw 23:56, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
 *  Which is ridiculous because under a National Socialist government, Native Americans would be one the the first ethic groups to go the gas chambers.
 * Great, National Socialism (and Fascism) can be applied to other people. National Socialism is not equal to the NSDAP or Third Reich, however many National Socialists look up to them. Derpian (talk) 09:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Weise Was on Prozac
Shortly after the shootings, during a live TV interview with relatives of Weise, a woman stated that he had been taking Prozac. 71.114.183.105 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

music
this is porbably irrelevant, but i was on his livejournal page and it showed he was listening to John Lennon and Johnny Cash. It's a bad case of nurture and not so much nature. You can delete this all you want, but John Lennon and Johhny Cash? this boy's damaged from a terrible upbringing, he's no psycho. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.18.30 (talk) 23:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Dont give me that shit. I came from a damaged upbringing and have clinical depression but i will live a normal boring life and nobody will care because i am not a psycho who kills people. Jeff did something horrible and we are suposed to blame that on something like damaged upbringing when other people have been through worse and have never did anything this horrible. He killed because he wanted to kill. He deserves no remorse and if you wish to give him remorse thats your right but dont try to tell us that he was just crying for help or something because that does not justify shit.And you seriously base all this off his music? I guess since i listen to disturbed and rob zombie than i am the pycho, right? I think his actions as a killer outweight his taste in music 174.42.242.231 (talk) 09:33, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * In any case, Original research is not allowed. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

What's your point? That people who listen to Lennon and Cash can't be psycho? Well, Manson was a Beatles fan. And "the Man in Black" has just the image to appeal to "lone-wolf" killer types. Magmagoblin2 (talk) 19:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Weise's birthdate (8-8-88) and Neo-Nazi Connection
Was there any evidence that Weise saw his birthdate (8-8-88) as symbolically significant, given that he sometimes identified as a neo-Nazi? See [88 (number) As a Neo-Nazi symbol]. Iguana Scales (talk) 21:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Cleaned up the "rez"
This kid did more to clean up the Red Lake Reservation than any politician, law enforcement officer, or legal eagle ever did. He alerted these people to a grave mistake in their way of thinking. He showed us how flawed the "old ways" were. We were a people stuck in a fantasy we had created to help us forget the humdrum lives we led. The "Indian" way killed more of my people than this kid ever did.

Thanks to this kid, we now have a working police force. We now have a real corrections facility. We now have a judicial system that hands down actual sentences for crimes that are legally policed. We never had that before. All we had were fat locals who wore uniforms and confiscated beer. Today, they investigate crimes. You can file a report and it's taken seriously. THIS WAS NOT THE CASE 10 YEARS AGO!!

This is a change that Jeff Weise made for us. I seriously wish we'd put up a statue for him. He changed this reservation more than any other person in our history. He modernized us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.87.218 (talk) 21:09, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Motivation
Unfortunately the motive isn’t as simple as ""being bullied in school for many years"". Certainly it played a factor. I have scoured the net and am unable to find any sources regarding this as being the sole motivating factor.

The motivating factors were: history of mental illness (suicide attempt and commitment to a psych unit), history of learning disabilities, early life dislocation between his young parents, loss of both parents (father - suicide, mother - severe brain damage), estrangement from the grandfather with whom he lived, recently kicked out of school, etc. Thoughts please?Albeit27 (talk) 05:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I decided to be bold after seeking advise and have pulled this out.Albeit27 (talk) 06:25, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. There are numerous sources that address those issues, but they did not get picked up by previous editors to this article or the one devoted to the shooting events. (there was so much emphasis on the details of the shootings, and his Internet activity.) Yes, not every troubled teen kills people and commits suicide, but he was at high risk for depression/suicide because of his own father's suicide (many studies support this), and effectively also losing his mother and stepfather at a young age due to her injuries. But, his extended family tried to help him and he was getting treatment. In addition, the reservation residents suffered high rates of unemployment and poverty, violence and suicide, and this background did not appear in either article, although it was part of his life. I have started adding more of this content, as it is important to include and was covered by numerous sources, including a long article in Salon, TIME, and Peter Langman's work. Have been trying to figure out exactly how to approach it.Parkwells (talk) 17:02, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * A huge thank you to Parkwells for taking the time to include me here when obviously s/he needn’t have - reflecting the true nature of collaboration here at wp. Anyone who looks at Park’s user page will understand where I’m coming from.  When I first happened upon this article I was taken aback by it’s poor quality (esp, considering it related to such a significant event). And now look at it. I should have given Park a  bio star instead of a copy one. S/he hadn’t even taken a breath at the article then. Lesson learned.Albeit27 (talk) 08:24, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks!Parkwells (talk) 11:27, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Concerns
I am finding multiple issues: words and paraphrasing are too close for comfort throughout the article (see example below), inaccurate quotes, quotes and other info taken out of context, misinformation, in-line cits outdated, sources no longer relevant, etc.

Much of the info is closely worded and phrased, and lifted directly from:  http://www.heaven9.com/Memorial/Intro/Index.aspx?Number=303744452 This source has since been removed, (rightly so, imo).


 * Example paraphrasing/wording issue:


 * From the above link: His father committed suicide via shotgun wound to the head in July 1997, after a day-long standoff with the Red Lake Police Department in Red Lake. The senior Lussier had attempted (sic) to intervene in the event, however failed to bring the standoff to a peaceful end.


 * Currently in article: On July 21, 1997, Daryl Lussier, Jr. committed suicide via shotgun wound to the head, after a two-day standoff with the Red Lake Police Department in Red Lake.[2][3] Daryl Lussier, Sr., his father, had attempted to intervene in the event, but failed to bring the standoff to a peaceful end.


 * Also sources 2 and 3 outdated/inaccurate.

Anyhow, after hours of diligent work it’s gotten too busy here of late and I am no way into edit warring. So, I’ll address this after things have calmed down or better yet - anyone want to join me?Albeit27 (talk) 05:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks to Parkwells recent edits this article has greatly improved - no doubt in a fraction of time it has taken me (working off-line) before I could get to it. I appreciate it!Albeit27 (talk) 12:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Another source said his father shot himself in the chest (in his suicide). Now I can't remember where it was - have been checking sources and finding more info; tried to add authors and dates where missing in cites, and more cites, etc. Peter Langman has thoroughly documented materials in his study on school shooters, and a considerable amount on Weise. What terrible losses Weise suffered. See my comments above. Parkwells (talk) 23:51, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Corrected for his grandmother being alive - different sources reported she died in 2003, but reporters of the WA Post and another RS spoke with her. I went with their direct contact.Parkwells (talk) 19:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Neo-Nazism Category
I wonder whether putting Weise in the American Neo-Nazis category could be a bit of a stretch? Yes, in his writings he seemed to express an admiration for Neo-Nazism and placed an importance on racial purity, but there is no proof that he has been a member of an organization or party supporting such views. Also, his own racial background makes it unlikely that he would have been accepted had he tried to apply for membership. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.137.86.82 (talk) 09:22, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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28 January 2024 delete request
He's an unnotable mass shooter whos known for an unnotable mass shooting. The article is short and unnecessary. Elizzaflanagan221 (talk) 04:17, 28 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Easier and less controversial to merge. I don't think he has particular significance as a killer individually, and the Red Lake page isn't long enough to warrant a split. I will first look for sources (and check some other things) and then I will see what I can do. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah there really aren't any sources discussing him individually and neither article is long enough to warrant the split IMO. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:50, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, the shooting is definitely notable. It still gets coverage to this day and was covered extensively in relation to the fact it happened on a Native American reservation, and the political implications of that, etc PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Elizzaflanagan221 A word to the wise since you are somewhat new to editing; BIO1E is usually not a reason to delete unless there is already an article on the event and the page is new. If there isn't an article on the event, suggest it be converted into one, and if there is (as there is on this case) and the page is old and has unique content, suggest it be merged into it (as we are doing here). Also a size/content split is a valid reason for having an article on the perpetrator (but that does not apply here). PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:45, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ok thanks Elizzaflanagan221 (talk) 05:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
 * hey i was just wonderin when it will be merged. Its been over about a week now. idk really know how this thing works Elizzaflanagan221 (talk) 17:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)