Talk:Kobe

PICTURES

 * The sunset over kobe does not look good at all; it does not have a sunset looking sky and the building are so dark you cannot see them. I do not see the point of having a picture to show how the city looks like, when you can only see the outline of the buildings. What do others think?


 * I think the port of kobe picture with the two large ships should be removed. It is obvious that this is not a picture of the port, but a picture of two large ships with 10% of the picture actually showing the port.


 * The Nakatottei picture is not a good picture at all, at least in my opinion; it should show more of the city and it was likely taken by an amature photographer.

I think these three should be removed. What do others think? ChristopherMannMcKay 13:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It bears pointing out that we're all amateurs here. Well, most of us anyway. That said, you can find plenty of Wiki-friendly photographs on Flickr, so if you think the photos need replacing, knock yourself out. Ytny 17:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the photo gallery needs to be trimmed. There are too many photos in the gallery, which, given its size and location, dramatically lowers the quality of the article.  All but perhaps four or five should be cut. -- Exitmoose 00:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Almost all the photographs of this page seem to be relatively good in me. I cannot understand why you criticize the photographs of this page abruptly. --C-cro 13:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I cut the ones people were complaning about yesterday. All the ones that are left look pretty good to me. -- Exitmoose 01:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Culture
I do not have any sources, but I know before the Kobe earthquake, Kobe was the largest shipping port in Japan and it was one of the first major shipping ports to trade with westerners a long time ago, so Kobe saw a lot more westernized things before other parts of Japan. Examples include, the first French style bakeries that are now wide spread throughout Kobe more than any other city in Japan and Japan's first golf course; there are other things too, I just can't remember them all, but I know the port influenced the city a lot. A lot of westerners lived in Kobe because of the port and built multiple buildings downtown in European architecture. Fashion has somewhat influenced the city’s culture, as many popular fashion magazines compare Kobe style with Osaka style or Tokyo style; there is even a magazine named Kobe Girls about Kobe fashion—which is typically more classy than neighboring Osaka or Kyoto. -ChristopherMannMcKay 15:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think in as much as what you discribe is the historical development of the city, these things could go under "History". The article already mentions how the opening of the port in 1868 led to the Westernization of the city.  Anything that could flesh out that statement would really improve the article.  And in as much as what you describe is visible today, it could go in the "culture" section.  Some good ideas.  I'd definitely try and find some sources before you add anything though.  The article already has so many uncited statements. -- Exitmoose 07:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I suggest to creat the Kobe-fashion article.It was written about it already "神戸系ファッション","神戸コレクション" at wikipedia japanese ver..Since 19th,there are a few area at Kobe or Hanshin that live rich families,and The conservative culture that is flexible in the fashion created there.Kobe-fashion is one of them,I think.In this year(2007),this was held in Shanghai too.And sometimes,The Kingdom of Thailand invested.So I think this event is supported by not only companies but also other countrie.
 * Please tell me opinions.


 * by 219.9.130.62 : 19:20 3 Mar. 2007 (JST)

Meaning of "Kobe"
While fact checking the article's claim as to the etymology of "Kobe", I came across a much more commonly accepted meaning, which I've edited the article to reflect. In addition to the source in the article, the following sources also assume this meaning:

http://hometown.infocreate.co.jp/en/kinki/kobe/midoko-e.html http://www.ryuusenkaku.jp/navi/200602.html

If a reasonably academic source can be found to back up the "houses of shrine" etymology, we can put the two side by side, but the only one I was able to find was from a rather dubious travel agency site. -- Exitmoose 07:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Assessment
In order to progress past "B" class, the redlinks in this article need to be taken care of (preferably created). It may also be good to list the stations for each line (or the major stations in any case). ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 06:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Done and done. Should have been done earlier, but I took a Wikibreak. -- Exitmoose 07:33, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Kitano-cho
I've created the Kitano-cho article to reduce the number of redlinks, but it's still a stub. There's plenty of information in the references to flesh out the article, but I just don't have the time now. If you're looking for something to do, all the information is there, it just needs to be put in article form. -- Exitmoose 08:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

List of schools in Kobe
The "no list" tag has been on the education section for a few months now, so I moved the list of schools to its own article at List of schools in Kobe. I'm not so familiar with standard list format, so someone more knowledgable should look over the article and bring it up to standards. Also, the education section is now very small, and could use a bit of fleshing out. -- Exitmoose 00:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for Review
User:Exitmoose asked the community to review this article. Comments can go here.

Lists
The article has a lot of lists. These can be converted to prose and kept within the article. As an example, the list of wards can be rewritten with a description of each. The sentence can incorporate a fact about the ward, such as its location or size or a prominent landmark located in it. Or it can list a famous person who was born there, or an event that took place in the ward. Likewise, important educational institutions can be mentioned in the section on Education, which currently names only a foreign school (giving it undue weight). Summaries can be helpful ("The city operates xxx public schools."). There's a reference in the article on education in Kobe that can be used for a count. If the information is available, the total number of public-school students would be a valuable addition. Again, writing sentences presenting information about the institutions is preferable to long lists. Fg2 01:31, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Edited "education" section and expanded the "wards" section. Unfortunately, I can't find information on total number of high school students in Kobe. -- Exitmoose 02:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

International organizations
I don't see the location of a server for an obscure website being particularly worth note. Also, one of the institutes was merely a division of the Asian Disaster center, which itself was already noted in the research section. This left only one organization, hardly worth its own section. In any case, I think any further organizations should be added under the "Companies and Research" section. Furthermore, we just purged the article of lists, so let's try and avoid repopulating it with more. -- Exitmoose 01:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Automated peer review
Copied from Peer review/Automated/October 2007

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
 * Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]


 * Done. -- Exitmoose 08:17, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Consider removing links that add little to the article or that have been repeated in close proximity to other links to the same article, as per Manual of Style (links) and WP:CONTEXT.[?]


 * Done. -- Exitmoose 08:17, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
 * Avoid including galleries in articles, as per Wikipedia:Galleries. Common solutions to this problem include moving the gallery to wikicommons or integrating images with the text.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -  between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 931 meters, use 931 meters, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 931&amp;nbsp;meters.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
 * Per Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading  ==Magellan's journey== , use  ==Journey== .[?]


 * Done. -- Exitmoose 08:17, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, APR t 03:27, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Peer review suggestions
Copied from Peer review/Kobe/archive1:


 * A really good start! I really like the steamboat woodcut, it's just outstanding and very relevant. Now for the comments:
 * The intro seems a little short, and needs to adequately summarize the entire article. Should be written in more fluid prose and give a concise summary capable of standing by itself.
 * Done. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "...and is a part of the Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto metropolitan sprawl..." probably needs a better choice of words.
 * Moved to a more appropriate location. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "It was one of the first cities to open for trade with the West, in 1868, and as such it is known as a cosmopolitan port city." Say something about who they were trading with. Was it tea? Ceramics? Something else? BTW I know the Dutch were trading with japan in the mid 17th century, so might want to check facts on whether Kobe was really one of the first cities. And "it was one of the first cities (in Japan you mean?) to open for trade with the west..." try being specific here.
 * This section refers to the post-sakoku period. Reworded to make more clear. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "...and as such it was known as a cosmopolitan port city." Again, needs rewording to make it flow. It is not entirely clear why a port city would be cosmopolitan. (Should insert something about how outside influences were transmitted by trade routes, and Kobe was city to be exposed to these changes first) and might say what kinds of changes were brought and by whom.
 * "...a number of companies" how many? avoid the vague.
 * Done. -- Exitmoose 03:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "Kobe's history dates back to the 8th century when..." you mean AD, right?
 * Fixed. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The history section needs a better lead and needs to copyedit to make it a coherent whole. Seems too short.
 * *Keep the woodcut picture, but I don't see why the Weathercock house img is important here. Also try a better caption on the woodcut, pointing out the steamboat as a vessel of trade.
 * Weathercock image is representative of Kitano area. Sadly can't find any pictures of Kobe earlier than post-Meiji. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "Following the Meiji restoration..." flesh out this section more.
 * "The history of Kobe is closely tied to that of the Ikuta Shrine, and..." you just talked about the history in origins, which didn't mention this, so move up to history.
 * Fixed. -- Exitmoose 03:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "...It was one of the most costly natural disasters in modern history." better watch out with a statement like this, esp not cited. Isn't every natural disaster nowadays "one of the most costly in history?"
 * Fixed. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "Kobe has a population of 1,530,295..." in what year?
 * Fixed. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "...the longest suspension bridge in the world." mention the length
 * Can't find a way to put it in without interrupting flow. In any case, the article itself is wikilinked if people want more information. -- Exitmoose 03:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "...encapsulated in the Japanese phrase, "If you can't go to Paris, go to Kobe." why not give the Japanese version followed by English translation?
 * Source is in English. In any case, the Japanese seems unnecessary. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "...residences from the 19th century (see History)." inelegant phrasing.
 * "Most of the movie Sayonara takes place in Kobe." why not "Most of the 1957 romantic drama Sayonara takes place in Kobe." and mention what scenes, what parts of kobe, and how does that choice of locale impact the plot of the movie.
 * Is this the standard map used for Japanese city infoboxes?
 * Fixed. -- Exitmoose 08:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Otherwise good content, just needs to be more focused and emphasize more details about what kind of trading went through Kobe historically and how that shaped the city. Emphasize how Kobe being a port city made it more cosmopolitan and mention the impact on the city. The history section probably needs fleshing out too. Otherwise, an interesting article. Jeff Dahl 04:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

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Founding
History>Modern Era section, starts off "Kobe was founded on Christmas Halloween"... what? Is this a bad translation, or vandalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BryanJones (talk • contribs) 09:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

wrong number for 3/17/45 bombing casualties
Under History/Modern era, the number of dead from the March 17, 1945 American bombing should be 80,841, NOT 8,841. It's off by a factor of 10.

See the "Bombing of Kobe in WWII" entry.

71.37.188.50 (talk) 20:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Collage
Since so many Japanese cities already have a collage, I suggest one for Kobe.-- RM ( Be my friend ) 15:19, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Kobe
Could someone who knows add the correct pronunciation of "Kobe" in English to the beginning of the article? It would be nice to have it in Japanese as well. I think it's "KO bay" in English but I just heard someone pronounce it to rhyme with "robe." Makes sense but doesn't sound very Japanese. DBlomgren (talk) 20:53, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * 12 years later, it has been added. Please let us know about anything else :) JthomasP (talk) 03:19, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Timeline of Kobe
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 14:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

1860s consul of Hyogo Port
I have just removed the following text from the "Origins to the Meiji era" section, as it is unsourced and I am having trouble verifying it:
 *  Notably, the international settlement's resident consul under the Union Jack flag was one Frans Gerard Mijburg (Francis Gerard Myburg).

The Japanese wiki biography on William Willis (physician) briefly mentions the sudden death of the British consul マイバーグ (presumably the same Mijburg/Myburg mentioned above) in 1868. But I cannot find any further evidence that supports describing Myberg as a "notable consul". If the information could be sourced somehow, I'd be happy to see it restored in the article. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:54, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Kobe (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:49, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Hatnote?
The city, while a primary topic, shares its name with a pretty famous celebrity in the english-speaking world. Would it be a good idea to add a hatnote redirecting to Kobe Bryant? Sincerely, Plutonical (talk) 17:56, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Withdrawn by nominator. – wbm1058 (talk) 09:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

– Out of all articles which relate to “Kobe”, the city of Japan is not a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Looking at page view statistics and online search results; as well as enduring greater notability, the professional basketball player’s article has more usage, notability, and significance than the city as per primary topic rules. But wait, your RM aims to move the disambiguation instead of doing anything to Koby Bryant’s article! That’s correct, which is why I would like to use this RM to clarify the significance of Bryant’s article as compared to the city. Should this RM succeed, further discussion regarding a possible redirect to the basketball player would be highly supported by me. DS537(WIR) 21:13, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Upon knowledge of WP:JPPLACE, I withdraw my move request. This RM may be closed early. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DirtySocks357(WreckItRalph) (talk • contribs) 02:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Kobe → Kobe, Japan
 * Kobe (disambiguation) → Kobe
 * Oppose. This failed in 2019, and nothing has changed since.  Justified primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 21:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose per 162 etc. There have been three recent nominations dealing with major American cities that use the form "City, State" — Texas' 14th-largest city (population 200,393) at Talk:Amarillo and Florida's 4th-largest city (population 307,573) at Talk:Orlando, Florida and Talk:Orlando (disambiguation). However, Japanese city names use standalone form and Kobe's population is 1,522,188. It is Japan's 7th-largest city and has a historical claim to primacy. Also, unlike the American cities, the Japanese city has little competition among the entries listed upon the Kobe (disambiguation) page. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose per @Roman Spinner. Killuminator (talk) 23:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:JPPLACE, which mentions this city specifically and also says not to use "Foo, Japan" to disambiguate. In addition, the idea that the basketball player has greater long-term significance than one of the most historically significant cities in Japan seems improbable at best. Dekimasu よ! 01:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

followup to move discussion
I didn't see this while it was still open, but found it interesting, so let's look at it from the perspective of trying to understand reader usage from clickstreams:
 * |Kobe_Bryant|Kobe_(disambiguation) all-time monthly page views
 * two huge traffic spikes correlating with Bryant, otherwise not much
 * WikiNav for Kobe
 * WikiNav for Kobe (disambiguation)

A semi-random view of the clickstream archive (the underpinning of WikiNav):


 * November '20 incoming views at Kobe: 19246
 * clickstream-enwiki-2020-11.tsv:
 * Kobe Kobe_Bryant    link    744 (~3.8% / ~14.5%)
 * Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture       link    407
 * Kobe Kobe_beef      link    260
 * Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation)  link    157 (~0.8% / ~3%)
 * total: 5118 to 103 identified destinations
 * May '22: 20030
 * clickstream-enwiki-2022-05.tsv:
 * Kobe Kobe_Bryant    link    408 (~2% / ~7.6%)
 * Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture       link    395
 * Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation)  link    270 (~1.3% / ~5%)
 * Kobe Kobe_beef      link    216
 * total: 5349 to 112 identified destinations


 * September '23: 23761
 * clickstream-enwiki-2023-09.tsv:
 * Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture       link    525
 * Kobe Kobe_Bryant    link    445 (~1.9% / ~7.2%)
 * Kobe Kobe_beef      link    246
 * Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation)  link    89 (~0.3% / ~1.4%)
 * total: 6135 to 119 identified destinations
 * January '24: 30998
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:
 * Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture       link    688
 * Kobe Kobe_Bryant    link    620 (~2% / ~7.9%)
 * Kobe Kobe_beef      link    289
 * Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation)  link    125 (~0.4% / ~1.6%)
 * total: 7860 to 140 identified destinations


 * February '24: 25100
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:
 * Kobe Kobe_Bryant    link    634 (~2.5% / ~9.6%)
 * Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture       link    601
 * Kobe Kobe_beef      link    239
 * Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation)  link    103 (~0.4% / ~1.5%)
 * total: 6617 to 126 identified destinations


 * March '24: 28339
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:
 * Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture       link    641
 * Kobe Kobe_Bryant    link    489 (~1.7% / ~6.6%)
 * Kobe Kobe_beef      link    249
 * Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation)  link    88 (~0.3% / ~1.2%)
 * total: 7389 to 136 identified destinations

In turn from the disambiguation page, we see these kinds of clicks:
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_(given_name)       link    30
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_Bryant     link    28
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_beef       link    23
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe    link    15
 * total: 96 to 4 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_(given_name)       link    34
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_Bryant     link    33
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe    link    12
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_beef       link    11
 * total: 90 to 4 identified destinations
 * clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_beef       link    31
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_(given_name)       link    25
 * Kobe_(disambiguation)       Kobe_Bryant     link    13
 * total: 69 to 3 identified destinations

So, while we've got precedent to think that there is no primary topic by usage based on these kinds of numbers (I've documented many at WT:D), at the same time, the city article clearly attracts a large and steady readership which in turn proceeds to over a hundred different articles and the topics related to Kobe Bryant or beef have prominence but a largely waning one, it seems. This clearly hints that the city article could still be a perfectly legitimate primary topic and the hatnote suffices to address the usage issue.

Any move discussion would absolutely have to provide a coherent examination of both usage and long-term significance, which neither of them so far did. --Joy (talk) 12:38, 20 April 2024 (UTC)