Talk:Last Order: Final Fantasy VII

Untitled
Juen 17th Renegade Zero: Who added Cloud Strife to the Screenshot listing? There hasn't been a shot of him, has there?

Doesnt one of those shots appear to be the Turks? Psi edit

Last Order's place in the timeline
''It had been previously speculated that the hidden scene on Disc 2 of Final Fantasy VII—accessible by visiting the Shinra Mansion's basement—happened only a few days before the opening events of the game's story. However, Before Crisis confirms that the two make their escape from Nibelheim a year before the opening events of Final Fantasy VII, and—as such—Turks recently added into continuity, yet not shown in the original Final Fantasy VII, are among Zack's pursuers.''

This can't be correct. Tseng talks about what happened "5 years ago" during Last Order, refering to the Nibelheim incident. This occurs after Zack and Cloud escape from Shin-Ra mansion. Tifa, during the game, says "it was 5 years ago" (again, the Nibelheim incident). So the escape from the mansion couldn't have been a year before Final Fantasy VII. Correct? Chibi Gohan 18:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Update
Can someone who've seen the english dub of this movie update this page? Ryu Ematsu

Any news?
It's been a while since this article was updated with news about Last Order. Is this OVA still coming? Anyone know? — Cua HL   02:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, if you don't mind the moral and legal questionability of the act, you can go ahead and download the full OVA via BitTorrent. It's pretty good, really. - Vague | Rant 13:00, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Dang pirater. Does anyone know if Last Order will have an american release date?

I highly doubt it honestly, there already worried about the sales of the dubbed version of Advent Children. I say download a subbed one, I just watched it, like Vague said, its good - Mike Towns

Too many screenshots
The general consensus across Wikipedia concerning the use of screenshots/caps of films (in any form) is usually limited to two at maxmimum in order to avoid copyright issues. Clearly this article exceeds that limit so so trimming is in order. 65.145.212.112 08:33, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I dont know. I think you should do a MFD if you think there are too many. Also if you think this page has alot check Advent Children. -- Psi edit 19:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think the problem is about the numbe of screenshot. The article lacks content, images are fine.


 * Federico Pistono 07:42, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree anyone who has watched this should add in some plot info and comparison to FFVII info. -- Psi edit 19:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Weeding Inaccuracies
Below I'll point out some of the current inaccuracies in the article and what's wrong with them.


 * "[Anything and everything that discusses the Jenova Project as though it were Hojo's]"

The Jenova Project had been Gast's; Hojo was just his assistant.


 * "For the next four years, Zack and Cloud are used as experiments for testing Hojo's Jenova Reunion Theory. Hojo injected Cloud with large amounts of Jenova cells and Mako energy. Zack is used as a control for the experiments, yet Cloud is suffering from severe Mako poisoning."

Zack was not a control, and Cloud wasn't the only one to receive that treatment. All the survivors of the massacre were injected with Jenova cells and infused with Mako. This was to test Hojo's Jenova Reunion Theory; he calls Cloud and the others "Sephiroth clones" afterward because of the similiarity between this experiment and the Jenova Project.


 * "His [(Cloud's)] memory is erased, and his body is in a comatose state and because of this. Hojo had labeled him a failed experiment."

Cloud's memory wasn't erased. It was just clouded by all the memories that didn't belong to him that were in the Mako he was infused with. Also, he wasn't labeled a failure. The failure was Zack, the strong-willed one. Cloud and the others were successful. Hojo wanted them to be vegetables so that the Jenova cells could take effect.


 * "They hitch a ride in a pickup truck heading to Midgar. This is where Zack decides that he is going to be a handy man of sorts, a mercenary, and take Cloud with him. They finally start to relax and think of the good times that will come when they reach Midgar, but in mid sentence, Zack stops and senses an imminent attack. The army regulars have again jumped the gun without waiting for the Turks. This time Zack and Cloud aren't so lucky. Zack is shot and killed while protecting Cloud."

Zack doesn't die in the pickup truck. He's just wounded by the bullet, which prevents him from fighting back as efficiently as he otherwise would have when he and Cloud reach the bluff overlooking Midgar. That's why he dies there.


 * "According to Last Order, Cloud and Sephiroth had much more dialogue than in the game before Sephiroth impaled Cloud with his masamune."

This is something of an exaggeration. The dialogue from the original game can be matched up almost exactly with that in Last Order prior to Sephiroth running Cloud through, the only exceptions being that Sephiroth didn't say "You -- You bastard" in the original game when Cloud gutted him, and said "Aaarrrgh...... who... who are you?" instead. After that however, there was some notable additional dialogue as well as Cloud getting impaled a second time.


 * "In Final Fantasy VII, when Sephiroth stabs Cloud near the end, he stabs him in the right shoulder (running parallel to when Sephiroth stabs him in the same shoulder in Advent Children). In Last Order, Cloud is stabbed in the gut."

The sword pierced Cloud's chest, actually.

Be aware that these are only some of the mistakes. I'm not listing them all, but I will correct them. Ryu Kaze 14:30, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Have to cite another inaccuracy here -


 * "It had been previously speculated that the hidden scene on Disc 3 of Final Fantasy VII—accessible by visiting the Shinra Mansion's basement—happened only a few days before the opening events of the game's story. However, Before Crisis confirms that the two made their escape from Nibelheim a year before the opening events of Final Fantasy VII"

The previous speculation is correct. Using the dates provided to us in Before Crisis and Advent Children, you can accurately map out when the escape happened. Zack and Cloud escape on December 19, 0006 (really 1996 in the game's timeline) as cited in BC Episode 19 and Zack is killed around December 25th. Shortly thereafter, mostly likely at the start of 0007 (1997) would be the start of the game. For reference's sake, here is a full pre-game timeline

Concerning an English Dub...
There's currently no plans to release an English version of Last Order, so the English cast list is unnecessary, if not misleading. I'm going to remove it. Ryu Kaze 15:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Plot section..................dead wrong.
This section does not capture Last Order. Im giving it a huge rework. Im still writing a replacement section, cant finish it now. -- Psi edit 06:24, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, and would like to add that the level of detail in the current article is excessive, and is potentially off-putting to visitors to the article. I appreciate that much of the history in Last Order requires explanation, but most of it is already covered in Final Fantasy VII. That said, I am quite partial to taking the summary from a previous version, the revision as of 00:07, 20 February 2006, and editing from there. -- Flooch 22:55, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you're referring to, Psi edit. Having gone through and cleaned up much of that summary a few weeks ago, I'm certain it was all correct. However, as Flooch has said, it's excessive in terms of length and details, and is a story summary instead of a plot summary, which is what we're supposed to have.


 * That being the case, I've gone through and cleaned up the whole article, turning it into what it's supposed to be. We need to do the same thing with Advent Children once it gets its NA and PAL releases. I've only left it alone this long because I felt it would be unfair to deprive those who can't yet see the film of knowing what happens. Ryu Kaze 17:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The article is much more coherent now, a huge improvement. Well done, Ryu! Flooch 00:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks a lot, Flooch! It was your revision of the Advent Children page that inspired me to do it. Ryu Kaze 03:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

''In Last Order, Cloud and Zack were ambushed by Shin-Ra soldiers while hitchhiking to Midgar in a pickup truck. While the original game featured the hitchhiking scenario, it did not feature the attack that Cloud and Zack suffered at that time.''

I'm not sure if this is implying that the game didn't show Zack and Cloud being gunned down at the cliff overlooking Midgar (which it did show), or if it's implying that the game didn't show them being attacked in the truck. I'm guessing it's the latter. I think this statement should be clarifyed to avoid any confusion over its intended meaning like I just described. - 216.78.102.188 05:56, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Unseen Epilogue
I think this is wrong. It states that "they spare Cloud's life, noting him to already be in a heavily-impaired state and expecting that he will shortly expire anyway. They lie about the outcome of this situation, stating that Cloud escaped while Zack was killed in his resistance." I think what actually happens is that they spare Cloud's life expecting him to die...and then because he actually survives, he has 'escaped.' ShinRa therefore accurately notes that Zack was killed but Cloud escaped.

You're correct. They left him for dead. WtW-Suzaku 14:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Wait. Where did this info for a so called " unseen " epilouge come from if it is UNSEEN?Quatreryukami 15:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The actual FFVII game, and there are also brief flashes of it in Advent Children. The original game cut directly from them riding in the back of the truck, to being on the edge of the cliff. Last Order filled in a bit of the gap by showing the scene in which Zack is shot by a sniper rifle while covering Cloud. This was likely done for the dramatic effect of the sound of a single gunshot, and also to explain why Zack was able to be overtaken by a squad of Shinra Soldiers, which he normally should have been able to easily defeat (something that's bugged fans for quite some time). WtW-Suzaku 18:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Fandom
Do we really need a fandom reaction? I understand there can be criticism for a show/movie/game or something, but is Wikipedia the right place to voice them? Shouldn't the article just stick to plot, characters, release info, music or what not? I mean, who are these "some fans" that the section mentions? I think if we're gonna have a section talking about controvery or praise or criticsm, it should be referenced with actual "reviews" from professional game/movie reviewers, rather than fan bias.

Vera26 06:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Writer?
On the article it says Nojima wrote Last Order but in the Reunion Files book it says that Madhouse wrote the movie and Nomura mainly oversaw character designs and actually spent a bunch of time shooting down the animators designs before they final found ones he liked. There is no mention of Nojima in article at all. Also it mentions that certain things do differ from the game but since things are so disjointed in Cloud's head that it was open to multiple interpatations, which might mean it is not a retcon like it was mentioned earlier on. J-Axe

Moved titles from hyphons to colons for subtitles
For the following reasons: I am quite confident that my moves support Wiki guidelines, and I also know that at least one other user supports such moves (User:Kariteh) but I suggest that anyone who feels strongly enough otherwise to strike up a survey and we can debate it. --SeizureDog 16:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The use of hyphons, dashes, tildes, etc. is a non-standard English practice of handling subtitles. It is a Japanese practice. This is the English Wikipedia, and MOS states to follow common English grammar. See Manual of Style (trademarks): "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment".
 * The above phrase of "even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment" invalidates whatever Square "officially" uses since it's not normal.
 * Pretty much everyone who's not an otaku fanboy (not that's anything wrong with that) uses colons for these titles. IGN is just one example, but there's plenty where that came from.
 * Here's the kicker: there's not even any hyphon/dashes in the logos. Since it's not even replicating that, it makes it pure Japanese-English.
 * This discussion is continued here. Axem Titanium 15:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Cloud throws him in FFVII
This is the biggest difference between Last Order and the Game. In LO, Sephiroth jumps into the Lifestream and in Game, Cloud throws him in. Just wanted to reaffirm that. Alright, sorry, thanks! Michaelkulov 02:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It's already noted, and don't forget to sign your post. Kariteh 22:10, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Elena
The female Turk with short blonde hair would be Elena, from the game, correct? But the first time you meet Elena in the game, doesn't she comment that she's a brand new member, and only got promoted because you wounded Reno in Midgar, temporarily taking him out of action? If I'm remembering correctly, she shouldn't appear in this film...unless she's like an intern or something.

I wonder why the Shinra uniforms were changed from blue to green...71.225.102.120 02:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I just accidently dicovered I was wrong; the blonde Turk is an unnamed Turk from the Before Crisis game. She's Elena's sister. So...never mind.71.225.102.120 18:57, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

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